SATA 3.o compatible with SATA 1.5 ports?

[korsen]

Just what the title says. I'm running on an Socket A board and i need more storage. 450GB isn't enough, and i'm going to buy a 500GB SATA since both my IDE's are used up and i'm already using 1 of 2 SATA ports.

I read a while back that they are compatible, but i'm saving up money so i don't exactly want to make a mistake since i need the storage right now.

Thnx

Btw, i know there's really no difference between brands, but as far as reliability goes, which of these would you guys recommend?

Hitachi Deskstar E7K500 500GB Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 500GB Hard Drive
WD Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive
Maxtor MaXLine Pro 500 500GB Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3500630AS 500GB Hard Drive
Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ 500GB Hard Drive
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB Hard Drive

 

[papi4baby]

Yes they are compatible. worst thing happens and it doesn't work, you can just take it back.

As per HD go look for benchies see which one performed the best depending on what you will need it for, i say either the Caviar or one of the Deskstar, but i not sure which one is best.

Here's a nice new review covering most of the drives you mentioned, good luck.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3031&p=1

 

[4745454b]

Yes, they are compatible.

Seeing as you asked about reliability, go for the Seagates. (get the 7200.10 if you can.) Even if it does fail, the warranty is 5 years compared to 3 or 1 years for the other guys.

 

[Zorg]

Yes they are compatible. Is there an echo in here? Check for the jumper that needs to be set for them to run at 1.5. Get a drive with Perpendicular Magnetic Recording technology. the Seagate 7200.10 and the new WD Caviar WD5000AAKS have it. There are others as well. I like the WD5000AAKS

Edit: The only AAKS drive that has PMR is the 750GB. WD says it in the fine print on their web page. Don't be deceived, I was temporarily.

 

[chocobocorey]

id go with the seagate 7200.10. perpindicular is better, which you wont get with the 7200.9, and the 5 year warranty is best. also, i know for a fact the 7200.10s have a jumper to set between SATA 1.5gbps and 3.0gpbs. im sure the others are completely compatible as well, though.

and also... what the hell is wrong with these new forums... it feels like a "my first forums" kinda deal. seems like toms keeps getting less and less respectable..

 

[jitpublisher]

Sorry, I certainly don't mean to hijack the thread, but yeah the new forum layout is like going back to kindergarden or something. A lot of the changes over the past year IMO are just not for the better.

 

[Zorg]

OP has his answer already.

The new format is still a little buggy. I would expect that the change was because the old engine was too slow, I could be wrong. The pages do load faster, but posting comments is still not worked out IMO. Give them time to debug it.

 

[jitpublisher]

I have to agree with you there, it is a lot faster.

 

[turpit]

Whoa right there Folks!!!
Note the OP is running socket A...an old mobo.

SATA is backwards compatable...meaning a 1.5 drive will funtion on a 3.0 capable mobo no problem, but the reverse is not true. The connector is physically the same, but you need to check your mobo manual, or the manufactures website. Unless your mobo says SATA 3.0 compatable, a SATA 3.0 drive isnt going to work.

 

[ira176]

You should have no problems with compatiblity. Just check to make sure that the drive you choose, can be set to limit the speed at 1.5 GB/s. Funny I came across your post, just today I took a look in my system today to air dust it. When I looked at my harddrive, which is a Seagate 7200.10 400 GB 3.0 GB/s capable drive, I found that I left my jumper on that drive to limit the drive to 1.5 GB/s. I felt pretty stupid, since I built the computer around Christmas 2006 and never noticed until now. Honestly though, I haven't noticed any major performance increase by changing the setting to 3.0 GB/s.

 

[4745454b]

Whoa right there Folks!!!
Note the OP is running socket A...an old mobo.

SATA is backwards compatable...meaning a 1.5 drive will funtion on a 3.0 capable mobo no problem, but the reverse is not true. The connector is physically the same, but you need to check your mobo manual, or the manufactures website. Unless your mobo says SATA 3.0 compatable, a SATA 3.0 drive isnt going to work.

The "SATAII" drives come with a jumper that will limit it to SATA. The only thing you lose is command queuing support. There shouldn't be a performance difference between SATA and SATAII, as your still limited to what disks spinning at 7200RPM can deliver.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Whoa right there Folks!!!
Note the OP is running socket A...an old mobo.

SATA is backwards compatable...meaning a 1.5 drive will funtion on a 3.0 capable mobo no problem, but the reverse is not true. The connector is physically the same, but you need to check your mobo manual, or the manufactures website. Unless your mobo says SATA 3.0 compatable, a SATA 3.0 drive isnt going to work.

Whoa yourself. This is absolutely not true.

SATA works as follows:

1. There is no such thing as "SATA I" and "SATA II". SATA is one set of standards. All drives labeled "SATA" are members of that one standard.

2. SATA drives can optionally implement several features in any combination. These optional features are:

- 300MB/sec transfer rate instead of 150MB/sec transfer rate.
- NCQ (Native command queueing)
- eSATA Compliance (ability to work at voltage signalling levels for eSATA operation)
- Hot Swap (ability to respond to hot swap commands from the controller)

3. All SATA drives are supposed to operate on all SATA controllers, regardless of the feature set of either the controller or the drive. Thus, a SATA drive that implements 300MB/sec transfer rates is supposed to operate just fine on a controller that only supports 150MB/sec transfer rates (albeit at 150MB/sec speeds).

There is an exception to this rule: There are some older SATA controllers that do not properly perform the feature negotiation with the drive. In this case, the drive will often operate at it's highest capable speed (for most modern drives, this is 300MB/sec) which the controller likely doesn't support. The speed mismatch between what the drive is operating at and what the controller is operating at will cause problems. The following south bridge chips are known to have this problem:

Via VT8237
Via VT8237R
Via VT6420
Via VT6421L
SIS 760
SIS 964
Intel 82801EB (ICH 5/5R)

Therefore, drive manufacturers have implemented a jumper on all SATA drives that are capable of 300MB/sec transfer rates, where that jumper will limit the transfer rate to 150MB/sec operation.

The following pages will show you the correct jumper settings to force 150MB/sec operation on your 300MB/sec SATA drive should you need to connect it to one of the above south bridge chips, or any other SATA controller chip that is incompatible with the negotiation process:

Seagate SATA Drive jumper configuration
Maxtor SATA Drive jumper configuration
Western Digital SATA Drive jumper configuration
Samsung SATA Drive jumper configuration

Hitachi produces their drives without speed-selection jumpers. They may have problems on the above-mentioned chipsets.

The "SATAII" drives come with a jumper that will limit it to SATA. The only thing you lose is command queuing support. There shouldn't be a performance difference between SATA and SATAII, as your still limited to what disks spinning at 7200RPM can deliver.

You do not lose NCQ support if you jumper a 300MB/sec capable drive to operate at 150MB/sec. The SATA transfer rate and the NCQ feature are independently implemented by the manufacturer of the device. There are hard drives out there that implement 150MB/sec transfer rates but have NCQ (Western Digital Raptors), and there are drives that implement 300MB/sec transfer rates but don't support NCQ (Seagate Barracuda 7200.9)

 

[turpit]

Whoa yourself. This is absolutely not true.

SATA works as follows:

1. There is no such thing as "SATA I" and "SATA II". SATA is one set of standards. All drives labeled "SATA" are members of that one standard.

2. SATA drives can optionally implement several features in any combination. These optional features are:

- 300MB/sec transfer rate instead of 150MB/sec transfer rate.
- NCQ (Native command queueing)
- eSATA Compliance (ability to work at voltage signalling levels for eSATA operation)
- Hot Swap (ability to respond to hot swap commands from the controller)

3. All SATA drives are supposed to operate on all SATA controllers, regardless of the feature set of either the controller or the drive. Thus, a SATA drive that implements 300MB/sec transfer rates is supposed to operate just fine on a controller that only supports 150MB/sec transfer rates (albeit at 150MB/sec speeds).

There is an exception to this rule: There are some older SATA controllers that do not properly perform the feature negotiation with the drive. In this case, the drive will often operate at it's highest capable speed (for most modern drives, this is 300MB/sec) which the controller likely doesn't support. The speed mismatch between what the drive is operating at and what the controller is operating at will cause problems. The following south bridge chips are known to have this problem:

Via VT8237
Via VT8237R
Via VT6420
Via VT6421L
SIS 760
SIS 964
Intel 82801EB (ICH 5/5R)

Therefore, drive manufacturers have implemented a jumper on all SATA drives that are capable of 300MB/sec transfer rates, where that jumper will limit the transfer rate to 150MB/sec operation.

The following pages will show you the correct jumper settings to force 150MB/sec operation on your 300MB/sec SATA drive should you need to connect it to one of the above south bridge chips, or any other SATA controller chip that is incompatible with the negotiation process:

Seagate SATA Drive jumper configuration
Maxtor SATA Drive jumper configuration
Western Digital SATA Drive jumper configuration
Samsung SATA Drive jumper configuration

Hitachi produces their drives without speed-selection jumpers. They may have problems on the above-mentioned chipsets.



You do not lose NCQ support if you jumper a 300MB/sec capable drive to operate at 150MB/sec. The SATA transfer rate and the NCQ feature are independently implemented by the manufacturer of the device. There are hard drives out there that implement 150MB/sec transfer rates but have NCQ (Western Digital Raptors), and there are drives that implement 300MB/sec transfer rates but don't support NCQ (Seagate Barracuda 7200.9)

And having owned 3 socket A mobos with a Via VT8237 southbridges, from personal experiance I can garuntee they wont run a SATA 3.0, at any speed let, alone recognize them, while they would run a SATA 1.5. Thus I stand by my original statement: the OP is running socket A...an old mobo. SATA is backwards compatable...meaning a 1.5 drive will funtion on a 3.0 capable mobo no problem, but the reverse is not true.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

And having owned 3 socket A mobos with a Via VT8237 southbridges, from personal experiance I can garuntee they wont run a SATA 3.0, at any speed let, alone recognize them, while they would run a SATA 1.5. Thus I stand by my original statement: the OP is running socket A...an old mobo. SATA is backwards compatable...meaning a 1.5 drive will funtion on a 3.0 capable mobo no problem, but the reverse is not true.

If that is true, your Socket A motherboards may have been exceptions, had something wrong with them, needed a BIOS update, or a host of other reasons. But a general statement that a 300MB/sec SATA drive won't function on a motherboard that only supports 150MB/sec is absolutely not true. I am currently using dozens of Western Digital Caviar and Seagate Barracuda 300MB/sec SATA drives on 5 different machines at work (in dock/caddy removable systems) that have Intel D865PERL motherboards (865P north bridge, ICH5R south bridge), and all the drives work fine (so long as they're jumpered to 150MB/sec operation, because the ICH5R is on the above list).

There is no such thing as "backward compatibility" or "forward compatibility" here. There are not two standards. There is ONE standard. See SATA IO: Dispelling the Confusion.

If the OP has a motherboard similar to the ones you had experience with, then he may have the exact same problem, but we don't know that for sure. Until we find out, you can't state incorrect generalities.

 

[jitpublisher]

I never heard of a SATA II (3.0) drive that would not work on a SATA I (1.5) controller. Any SATA II drive I have ever seen has a jumper to set the speed to SATA I, if there are problems. A lot of the newer boards will run the 3.0 drive on a 1.5 controller without even setting the jumper on the drive to the 1.5 setting.
I am in fact currently running a SATA 3.0 Seagate drive on my SATA 1.5 controller and it works perfectly, with or without setting the jumper. I have tried it both ways.

 

[azimuth40]

Same here I am running dual Seagate 500GB 7200.10's on a SATA 1.5 controller with no problems. I also wish that people would stop this SATA I vs SATA II madness. When SATA II finally does come out the confusion will be terrible. Look what happened when they did not stop people from calling ATA -> IDE. Now that it is being called PATA to distinguish it for SATA people are even more confused.

 

[Verl]

I got some major problem with the compatibility myself...
Currently using a Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 200GB SATA2 8MB 7200RPM
And i was given a Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ 500GB just recently.

Plugged the new one in and... Well the Bios finds it and my system finds it...
but i can't access it. Checked everything three times by now and from what i understand it should work..

Or am i totally out in the blue?

 

[4745454b]

Bios finds it, "system" finds it, what do you mean you can't access it? If its new, go into disk management and reformat it. (might want to repartition it to.)

 

[Verl]

That was jus it... I couldn't format it or anything...
But i solved it anyway... Somehow the system didn't like it and it was turned "off" in some odd way. So i managed to turn it on and then i was able to reformat it.

 

[rwpritchett]

Just thought I'd chime in here...

I have a Socket A motherboard that's still kicking, and I've connected my Seagate 320GB 7200.10 to the 1.5GB/s SATA controller and it worked even without using a jumper to change the drive from SATA 3.0GB/s. Yes it does work.

Oh, and by default the 7200.10 Seagates come with the jumper set to 1.5GB/s. You have to take the jumper off to enable 3.0GB/s.

 

[onestar]

Socket As WILL work with SATA 3.0 drives. Sometimes the BIOS on the older boards was a bit flaky, but as long as the SATA ports are activated in the BIOS and enabled in the OS, with 1.5 Gb/s jumpers in place on the drive, everything should be fine. If the jumper is not in place, the machine will not even know the drive is there.

Besides all that, there are many SATA adapters which will allow you to connect the newer SATA to standard PATA.

 

[maury73]

Just a note for all: SATA 2.0 doesn't stand for 3Gps! It's simply a revision of the previous 1.0 standard with new added features (like NCQ).
The link speed has nothing to do with either version of the standard, that's an electrical specification (phisical layer) not related to the transport or application layer covered by the 2.0 revision.

Drives and controller must auto-negotiate the link speed, like any high speed serial link does, but some older controllers' transceiver (like older VIAs) provide very poor signal quality resulting in link errors.
Check for the exact controller type and revision before buying your new drive.

 

[dusty825]

a Asus a7n8x-e board will not work with a sata 3 drive, no matter where you have the settings on the hd set

 

[BillM47]

It looks like the VIA VT8237 chip is the problem-maker. My ASUS A8V with the VIA Southbridge works well with a Seagate 750 SATA drive at 150 MB (jumper on), but the Segate 1TB will force the chip to not recognize any SATA drive. There doesn't seem to be a (free) bios revision later than 5.1.2600.220. This is a popular chipset and it's too bad that VIA or ASUS doesn't offer any support. We'll have to replace the on-board SATA hardware with a plug-in board. Gives ASUS a blot on their record.

 

[MikeB15]

Wow that is all confusing... I just installed a 500GB 7200 RPM Seagate drive in my MBPro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz. The hardware description for my drive says:
Vendor: Intel
Product: ICH8-M AHCI
Speed: 1.5 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.10 Supported

The drive I put in was a 3.0 Gigabit drive.

I didn't do anything with any jumpers, just installed it right out of the box. Everything works fine, except my battery life is a lot shorter and the laptop seems to run a little hotter than before.

Do I need to do the jumper thing to get my battery life back? BTW I got a brand new battery from Apple so it's not the battery.