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Athlon X2 6000+ vs C2D E6420

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July 9, 2007 4:20:27 PM

With the new price drops on both sides, which one of these will be the better buy? Keeping ocing out of the equation as I don't want to have to oc my brand new proc. These two are the closest in price that I can justify. I lean towards the C2D as I can use it in the asrock board so I dont have to upgrade all at once. But if the performance of the 6000 is high enough, maybe its worth parting out this computer to pay for the upgrades to ddr2/pci-x. So what do you guys think?

More about : athlon 6000 c2d e6420

July 9, 2007 4:51:38 PM

Hey, you know, the 6000 is faster than the c2d by a big margin.
The cd2 will kill it if you oc (I know what you said) and will save you at least $250 since you don't have to buy a mobo, ddr2 (assuming you are running ddr400 on the asrock) and a gfx card.
What is the pc's main use? Is your mobo compatible with the 4mb cache 6420 by bios update?
July 9, 2007 6:39:40 PM

I honestly don't know, I am still running a Athlon XP 2500 now, I was saying I would have to purchase the asrock board. I didn't think there were compat issues with the L2 cache I thought that was just on the core and mobo had no dealings really with it? I have been out of the game and only recently in the last month to 3 months have gotten back in.
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July 9, 2007 6:48:15 PM

Tell me what's your budget, what parts you need, and what you'll do with it (gaming low res, high res, video/audio editing, internet, word...) then I'll try to help with the hardware
July 9, 2007 7:50:59 PM

Budget at absolute max, shipping, tax everything, is about $300-350. I have a second computer and am selling it to finance upgrade. I do standard everyday stuff, and various gaming, but my main game I will be playing is UT2007 whenever it comes out. Don't need super high res as I play just fine at 1024*768, I currently have a 7600GT AGP card that I recently bought with the intention of upgrading to the asrock/c2d combo, i have 1 gig 333 ddr. the rest is fairly unimportant I would think. Oh and a Antec 400W smartpower psu.
July 9, 2007 8:11:49 PM

Thats what I was thinking. Although, I will probably surpass the 8800 series and wait a gen or 2, upgrade ram next, and lastly the gpx card to see if I can get better DX10 support, speed, and adoption. I don't upgrade very often, and when i upgraded to the 7600 last month it was from a GF4ti4200, granted that was a hell of a card that outpaced many after it, (eg. fx series, 6000 series(sometimes)). I am pretty happy with it's performance, unless I find out that the new UT will be DX10 only, which in that case that will be my primary goal to upgrade to that. Anyways, thanks for your help.
July 9, 2007 8:50:43 PM

6000+ is more powerful and motherboards are cheaper for am2 too
July 9, 2007 8:59:03 PM

but how much longer will AMD stay with AM2? Intel with LGA775? upgradability down the road is kind of important if at all possible.
a c 96 à CPUs
July 9, 2007 10:15:40 PM

A few facts:

1. The X2 6000+ is considerably faster than the E6420 when both are at stock speeds, but the E6420 can overclock much better than the X2 6000+ can and will outperform it in that case.

2. The X2 6000+ can only use DDR2 memory as it has a DDR2-only memory controller integrated into the CPU itself. The E6420 can be used with DDR or DDR2, depending on which chipset it is paired with.

3. There are no socket AM2 boards that support AGP if I remember correctly, although a socket 775 Core 2 Duo board that supports DDR RAM will generally also support AGP.

4. There are older Socket 939 motherboards and Athlon 64 X2s that do use DDR RAM and some have AGP slots as well. These can be had very inexpensively nowdays, but are starting to become less and less available as time goes on.

5. If you do not have two 512 MB sticks of DDR 333 for your 1 GB that you have, forget about using it as you need dual-channel operation to even think about running a dual-core chip on DDR 333. Even dual-channel DDR 333 isn't a lot of bandwidth. It would probably be fine for the socket 939 X2s of somewhere around 2.0-2.2 GHz and less, and might be enough for the slower Core 2 Duos as well. But don't even think about trying to overclock using a memory divider (e.g. setting the RAM to DDR-266) as you will be memory-bottlenecked pretty quickly.
July 10, 2007 12:14:26 AM

it is dual sticks of 512mb DDR 333, I don't plan to try to overclock, at least not at first, maybe later when I start to feel like the system is slowing down, but I won't to ensure max life out of this proc. and I did the math 333 quad pumped is 1332, or am I thinking about this wrong? will DDR333 be enough to at least run stock speed on the 6420? Or do I have to underclock it just to run? or use a divider? I plan to upgrade to 2*1gig Corsair Ballistix as soon as possible. Newegg has em for 125.99. If I decide to just not overclock I may get lesser (name) ram. I know 2*1 gig can be had for around $80. This is only supposed to get me by until I graduate in about 4-5 years. I have a laptop I recently ordered (i love student loans) that will probably be my mainly used machine, but for processor intensive stuff I would like to use my desktop, as well as for majority of my gaming.
a c 96 à CPUs
July 10, 2007 12:36:49 AM

liquidx said:
it is dual sticks of 512mb DDR 333, I don't plan to try to overclock, at least not at first, maybe later when I start to feel like the system is slowing down, but I won't to ensure max life out of this proc. and I did the math 333 quad pumped is 1332, or am I thinking about this wrong? will DDR333 be enough to at least run stock speed on the 6420? Or do I have to underclock it just to run? or use a divider? I plan to upgrade to 2*1gig Corsair Ballistix as soon as possible. Newegg has em for 125.99. If I decide to just not overclock I may get lesser (name) ram. I know 2*1 gig can be had for around $80. This is only supposed to get me by until I graduate in about 4-5 years. I have a laptop I recently ordered (i love student loans) that will probably be my mainly used machine, but for processor intensive stuff I would like to use my desktop, as well as for majority of my gaming.


DDR 333 runs at a 166 MHz signal rate, so it's already an effective data rate. DDR 333 in dual channel gives you 5.3 GB/sec in combined bandwidth, which is what a single stick of DDR2-667 does. The slowest Core 2 Duo desktop chip has an 800 MHz effective FSB data rate, which means 6.4 GB/sec. The E6420's is 1066 MHz, good for 8.5 GB/sec. The DDR 333 will not come close to saturating the FSB's capacity, so you might not get the CPU's full performance using memory-intensive programs. It probably isn't that much of a hit- probably 25% or so, using a guess- but the chip will still be quite a bit faster than an Athlon XP 2500+. If you got a Core 2 Duo motherboard that uses DDR RAM, you can simply set everything at "auto" and the RAM will run at DDR 333 in dual channel and the CPU will run at full speed. The only CPUs/chipsets that do not run RAM at their full speeds (provided the RAM is JEDEC standard) are the Core 2 Duo ULV chips and AM2 Athlon 64 X2s that have a clock speed that does not divide into the RAM signaling speed evenly. The C2D ULVs simply run RAM at the same signal speed as their FSBs- 133 MHz, good for a 533 MHz FSB and DDR2-533, and the AM2 X2s' memory speeds depend on the CPU core speed and multipler and the RAM speeds used. On those chips, you would have to overclock or underclock to hit the RAM default operating speed. But the Core 2 Duo LV and standard-voltage laptop chips as well as all desktop C2Ds can run RAM at its native speed as well as running the CPU at its native speed.
July 10, 2007 3:39:19 AM

alright, so i will be able to run full speed, just not the full potential of the system until I upgrade to DDR2. Ok, well that sucks, but at least I should notice a significant difference anyway. Plus will let me upgrade over time.
July 10, 2007 3:39:36 AM

oh yeah, and thanks!
July 10, 2007 4:19:14 AM

Man are we twins sepreated at birth, I am currently running a Athlon Xp 2500+ (pretty popular tho at the time) and I also am looking to upgrade to a C2Duo, AND I was coming to the forums to post what the diff was from C2D to X2's. Because I have been out of it awhile too, if im not upgrading whats the point? Anyway ALSO I ran my PNY 4200 for a few years, longer than almost anyone, though got my current 6800GT early 2005 cause of HL2.

Anyway I just always had so much luck with that card, it would eat the fx series up whole, even the higher end ones. I am amazed that some 6000 series cards could be beat by it, but then again thats only 2 gens. Im prolly waiting for the 9x00 series (if thats what they call them) just cause its my CPU thats really holding me back. Though this 2500 is really amazing, only with Supreme Commander and Medieval Total War2, does it slow down.

Anyway just thought id post that, we seem to pick pretty long lasting stuff. Thats why im doing alot of research. Im prolly gonna end up with what ever is at the 6000X2 price range when i do buy, but not sure if its worth getting a new AMD, SAD, but Im not rich and dont want to risk my money. Good Luck
July 10, 2007 4:30:35 AM

That is why I have made the decision to go asrock+c2d. I can use my current stuff and upgrade as needed. I JUST bought my 7600GT, and it is highly bottlenecked by my system. Plus I have noticed that over the course of the last year my cpu keeps running hotter and hotter. I thought maybe the thermal paste had broken down, so i recently redid it with AS5, and cleaned up my HSF, but I have a Volcano 11+ and the ducting mod on it, and with it oc'd to 2900 speed (200*10) it is idling at about 40C and hits full load temp of about 46C with the fan running at 3400 RPM. I could crank the fan up and cool it back down, but I don't want to feel like I am sitting next to a jet and that is what it sounds like. That is one of the major reasons for my upgrade, the other being the imminent release of UT2007. I am an avid UT fan, from the days of 1999 and the original, I have bought every subsequent release on the day it came out. I want to make sure I can do that with the new UT as well and be able to actually play it, not watch a slide show...lol. But as money is very tight, I have to be careful with what I buy. I need to leave enough money that if my PSU can't handle the new system I can upgrade that asap. If I run it a while and it runs fine, then I will upgrade memory first. The GF7600GT is a damn good card from everything i have read and is hard to beat for it's price. I don't like ATI as everything I have had from them has given me problems, and i ended up selling it right away and going back Geforce. We may be on the brink of DX11 before i upgrade my vid card as long as it plays UT2007 well. I just about only play UT04 anymore. I have tried some demos of others, and would kinda like to play quake 4, it looks cool. You guys know of any other games with similar style to UT/quake that i might like. I am not really into the RPG/ oblivion, that kind of game. And again, thanks for everyone's help in helping me choose my upgrade path. As for how long I ran my GF4, i think it was like 5 years. Was a solid card. The fan went out on it on me, but then i had a old Athlon cpu fan sitting around I screwed it on, looks kinda funny but cooled it better and quieter. So i could oc it farther.
a c 96 à CPUs
July 10, 2007 4:43:06 AM

liquidx said:
alright, so i will be able to run full speed, just not the full potential of the system until I upgrade to DDR2. Ok, well that sucks, but at least I should notice a significant difference anyway. Plus will let me upgrade over time.


A specific motherboard will only support DDR *or* DDR2. You have to buy a new motherboard to start using DDR2 on an Intel system and a new motherboard AND a new chip if you're running an AMD K8 CPU.

walrusking: The upcoming 10h processors are going to be backwards-compatible with the current AM2 socket. The AM2+ boards will have a few things that the AM2 boards don't, specifically split power planes and HT 3.0. Those won't affect performance all that much as the current HT spec in a single-socket system is overkill anyway, and the split power planes are mostly an extra power-saving tweak. The 10hs will also use DDR2 memory.

Intel will continue to use the LGA 775 socket until about 18 months from now when Nehalem ships. That will be socket 715. But while Intel sticks with the same socket for a long time, CPU compatibility isn't all that good, due to chipset limitations. As an example, a Core 2 Duo will fit in a LGA 775 board with a 915 chipset but it won't run. Ditto with most pre-Q2 2006 945 and 975 boards and all 955 boards I know of. AMD changes sockets more frequently but anything that will fit in the socket will almost always run. Pick your poison, I guess. I generally don't upgrade the CPU and motherboard independently of each other and I do that about every 5 years, so I don't keep much besides monitors, HDDs, peripherals, and optical drives. Maybe the case or PSU if the specs haven't changed, such as Baby AT -> ATX and the addition of the 4-pin +12V connector on PSUs.
July 10, 2007 4:50:52 AM

Quote:
A specific motherboard will only support DDR *or* DDR2. You have to buy a new motherboard to start using DDR2 on an Intel system and a new motherboard AND a new chip if you're running an AMD K8 CPU.


Not true my friend, in almost every single circumstance your right, EXCEPT the Asrock board I have been talking about. It supports DDR & DDR2, but only one at a time, as well as AGP & PCI-X, once again one at a time. So I can get the board, the E6420 is the highest proc that will go into it at this time as it is the highest 1066 chip (well within decent price range, not highest period) and then later go to ddr2, and then finally a upgrade to PCI-X at which time things will probably have changed all over again and I will be stuck back where I am now, just with a faster PC....lol I think Biostar has a board that does this too, they both use the Via PT880 chipset. Which is the only chipset which boasts these features. It even has support for the Q6600, and they recently did a refresh on it, updating the southbridge and giving it SATA2. So that will be the board of choice for me.
July 10, 2007 10:19:39 AM

liquidx said:
Quote:
A specific motherboard will only support DDR *or* DDR2. You have to buy a new motherboard to start using DDR2 on an Intel system and a new motherboard AND a new chip if you're running an AMD K8 CPU.


Not true my friend, in almost every single circumstance your right, EXCEPT the Asrock board I have been talking about. It supports DDR & DDR2, but only one at a time, as well as AGP & PCI-X, once again one at a time. So I can get the board, the E6420 is the highest proc that will go into it at this time as it is the highest 1066 chip (well within decent price range, not highest period) and then later go to ddr2, and then finally a upgrade to PCI-X at which time things will probably have changed all over again and I will be stuck back where I am now, just with a faster PC....lol I think Biostar has a board that does this too, they both use the Via PT880 chipset. Which is the only chipset which boasts these features. It even has support for the Q6600, and they recently did a refresh on it, updating the southbridge and giving it SATA2. So that will be the board of choice for me.



I think he means at the same time. You can't use both on the asrock board, just one or the other. DDR2 is pretty cheap at the moment, if you shop hard enough you can probably find 2gb for $50. Pretty sure i've seen that somewhere.
July 10, 2007 2:51:19 PM

funny thing was I was wrong about the agp/pci-x thing, you can use them at the same time just not in sli. So really only to run 2 seperate displays.
July 10, 2007 3:36:33 PM

IMHO, you should build a completely new system and sell your current system as is.

The mish-mash collections of parts will keep yolu hamstrung for quite a while.

The old DDR memory will seriously bottleneck any new CPU you get. X2 or C2D.

Look at reviews of the 4300 vs the E6300 running at stock speeds.
Then compare the same chips with the FSBs pumped up.

At the slow FSB the E6300 kills the E4300.
Once the FSBs are increased they match performance.

This shows even the slowest C2D is limited by the bus.
You are going to now try and run a C2D using memory that is running a fraction of that speed since.

Also, while I understand you are queezy about doing an OC, you must realize that the low-end and upper end CPUs are manufactured using the same parts/processes. As a result, clocking the low-end chips to mid-upper range performance is not a risk. It is only when you start pushing the chips beyond high-end speeds that you may start to have issues.

Grab yourself an E4300, change the FSB to 533 from 400 and you have an instant E6600 (Or Darn Close.) You have saved plenty of money over starting with a mid-range CPU that can be pumped back into your system for better graphics and other things.

The ASROCK boards will also not perform nearly up to par with other stuff.

If funds are tight, lower end X2s with moderate OCs and and AM2 board are nice as well since they will allow upgrades to the next gen processor.

July 10, 2007 3:54:40 PM

Couple things: First, I have no issue with ocing, been doing it for years. Probably longer then most people on here have even been messing with computers. Thing is I don't overclock when I first get the system. I have reasoning for this, see if I oc now, then the only path to a faster system is by upgrading. By getting fast now (or in my low money case, over a short period of time) I can oc later when the system starts to feel sluggish. This greatly extends the effective life of my processor for two reasons, less chance of electronic migration because I have the proc oc'd for less amount of time overall, and second, with the speeds people have been getting out of these procs, its like buying another 1000Mhz. Which anyone can easily see would be a "felt" speed increase.

I would love to do an entire system upgrade, you have no idea how much I want to. But fact is, I would rather buy faster parts over a fairly short period of time (about 3 months) and end up with a faster system, then upgrade all at once and not have much speed. This upgrade is actually part of one i started about 2 months ago by replacing my HDD and DVD burner, then last month, i replaced my GF4 ti card with the 7600GT, and even though its agp, if I was buying a pci-x card, i still would have went 7600GT. And what has been shown time and again is that we are still not utilizing the full bandwidth potential of AGP. They honestly switched just to get people to buy new stuff in my true opinion. Sure we will need PCI-x later, but it's not needed right now, or if it is, then it JUST started now with the high end 8800 series, i don't know what kind of bandwidth they use so I can't say. Also on the 4th when newegg had a eagletech case for $100 plus a $100 rebate, I was able to justify buying a new case as it would only cost me $18.88 I think it was for the shipping. So the mobo, cpu, ram, and psu are the only things left that need to be upgraded. After the mobo, cpu upgrade within a month hopefully I will switch to DDR2 ram, probably 1 stick 2 gig so i can upgrade to 4 gig by years end. And in about a year, I will upgrade to a PCI-X vid card whatever is the best I can get in the $100-150 range of the time, as long as it shows a marked improvement over my 7600. That is part of why I kept my GF4 so long is it was an insane card that was able to best cards that were supposed to be better, long after i bought it. Plus factor in ocing it, and it was a mean mamajama :D . So honestly, i really didn't think about it all, but your right I do need a full upgrade, but also I am right as I am doing a full upgrade. It's just taking me about 6 months to a year to do so. Plus I figured it out, if I sell everything that is in my system now parted out, it will net me about $175, if I sold it whole, I doubt I would get much more then $100 from people that had an idea of what they were buying. It is just because I had some high end parts in the day. I am leary about the Asrock board, and do plan to upgrade it to a asus board next year when I get the new vid card. It will be weird going from the top line board of AXP line to a low end C2D line. But my money situation is different now then it was then. On the other hand, I have heard many good things about the asrock board, and I have heard of people getting some decent oc's on it.
July 10, 2007 4:28:58 PM

You were asking how long am2 will be around and that will be until am2+, when the phenoms arrive (q4). LGA 775 will be around until after penryn which will be coming out later this year if not early next year. So I'm assuming it will be around for one and a half to two years. I wish that you had enough money to buy DDR2 800 ~$80. On July 22, intel will have an e6750 and that might be in the price range ~$180. Then you can get a 650i (~$80-$100)motherboard or a cheap p35 ($100-$130).
July 10, 2007 4:36:33 PM

AM2+ will only last until h2 of 2008. Talk about non upgradability because the old CPU's won't go on the new mobos while the new CPUs will go on the old and new mobos.
a c 96 à CPUs
July 10, 2007 6:16:30 PM

mgtech said:
AM2+ will only last until h2 of 2008. Talk about non upgradability because the old CPU's won't go on the new mobos while the new CPUs will go on the old and new mobos.


Well, that is correct, but don't people usually upgrade CPUs in their existing motherboard rather than get a new motherboard for their old CPU? I don't really see a problem here...
July 10, 2007 6:38:08 PM

MU_Engineer said:
A few facts:



3. There are no socket AM2 boards that support AGP if I remember correctly, although a socket 775 Core 2 Duo board that supports DDR RAM will generally also support AGP.



I am actually typing this on my recently upgraded motherboard I just got a x1950pro AGP card as guarantee exchange for an x800xl. It is an asrock am2nf3 with AGP am2 4000+. so they are there..
July 10, 2007 7:31:02 PM

Wow, I feel like I am in a room with some long lost brothers. I myself just updated from the AMD xp 2500+, since it was starting to show its age (ok ok I was gaming on medium at 1024x768 on some old games like WoW). I too updated for UT2k7, and sooner, Quakes Wars.

I bought up a 6420 believe it or not, some cheap 80 dollar ram, and a DS3. Currently Im sitting at 3.0Ghz at below stock volts, and I haven't had a problem with anything at max. It really is a beautiful processor that is very much underated in my book, unless you really want 3.6 with the 6600's high multi (I probably could even get closer to that if I wanted to feed mine some volts who knows). Anyway, you will be very very happy, if you are anything like me : ).
a c 96 à CPUs
July 10, 2007 7:38:15 PM

einheriar said:
I am actually typing this on my recently upgraded motherboard I just got a x1950pro AGP card as guarantee exchange for an x800xl. It is an asrock am2nf3 with AGP am2 4000+. so they are there..


I haven't seen or used any of the ASRock boards, so I suppose I might have missed it. After taking a look at them, they seem to make some unusual combinations of parts, such as the Intel boards that have AGP and PCIe as well as the ones that have two memory controllers, one for DDR and the next for DDR2. Do you know of any others than the ASRock that pair together AGP and Socket AM2?
July 10, 2007 9:04:55 PM

You should just bite the bullet, scrap all of your old hardware, and buy a new system. Since you aren't interested in OC'ing and are on a very limited budget I suggest you put together an AM2 based system. My suggestions for parts would be:
CPU: Athlon 64 4200+ $80
Mobo: Abit K9N SLI $100
RAM: 1GB DDR2 Value Ram (purchase 2nd stick down the road) $45
Video Card: EVGA 7900GS $105 (after $20 rebate)

That combination of parts comes out to $330 + shipping. You could probably get a cheaper motherboard and beef up the processor a bit, but I don't know anything about the chipsets below the NForce 570 and that is why I recommended a board based off of it. Hopefully your power supply will suffice and you have a hard drive and case you can reuse. Having to move to PCIe and get rid of your recently purchased video card is rough, but at the end of the day you will be much happier with the above setup than you would by choking a C2D CPU with 333MHz RAM.
July 10, 2007 10:02:54 PM

MU_Engineer said:
I haven't seen or used any of the ASRock boards, so I suppose I might have missed it. After taking a look at them, they seem to make some unusual combinations of parts, such as the Intel boards that have AGP and PCIe as well as the ones that have two memory controllers, one for DDR and the next for DDR2. Do you know of any others than the ASRock that pair together AGP and Socket AM2?



BioStar and MSI also have the AGP + AM2 combination, one of the MB is $35 after MIR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...


I recently upgrade from fx-51 to X2 6000.

I have the 1950 pro(AGP) and because is still a good card I decide to upgrade to AGP MB system.
I build my new system with $340 buck (CPU, 2GB DDR2 MEM and MB).

And I paid this price when the CPU was more expensive.

I recommend to go with the x2.
July 10, 2007 11:39:52 PM

DDR on the asrock is not a problem. I run it, people over rate memory bandwidth far too much these days.
July 12, 2007 6:40:20 AM

Ok, sorry for not posting guys, I was out of town for a couple.
The problem with getting the 6750 is that it uses a 1333 fsb and the asrock board doesn't support that high, it only goes to 1066.
I just watched a vid card identical to mine go for over $100 on ebay which would mean I would actually make a few bucks off replacing that. And if I can sell my mobo I have now, it should net me the cash to get the DDR2, or at least damn close to it, enough I could foot the rest. There is an advantage to buying a high end board, the resale stays up there. I watched a mobo like mine, but only mobo, no cables/discs etc... go for about $70. I have all the discs and extra cables and the deluxe board honestly loses some of it's "luxe" when you don't have the extra cables because of the ports they put on them. So mine should fetch more.
I appreciate everyone's help. In light of what I said above, I will be seriously looking at a couple other mobos, I have heard a lot of good things about the DS3, and since I do plan to OC later, that might be what I go with.
!