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Best 22" & 24" lcd for HD Video?

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July 14, 2007 8:03:29 PM

Ive searched through a lot of lcd reviews, but most of them tend to focus on gaming. I was looking into getting a 22 or 24 inch wide screen lcd that has very good HD video capablilities. I will eventually get a blue ray drive for my computer (in a year or two) so HDCP is a must. Thanks guys.

More about : lcd video

July 15, 2007 6:53:12 AM

Look for a 1200x1920 resolution if you want full compatibility (24") and make sure the viewing angle is 176 or 178 degrees vertical AND horizontal. Spend the money once for the GOOD stuff. An NEC 2470WNX comes to mind first. You pay more ONCE, and you get probably the best LCD monitor in the business.
July 15, 2007 10:17:33 AM

Hey i have the exact same plan and have just mannaged to get my grubby little hands on the dell 24" and its sweet its rev4 so all the little banding problems the inital model Rev0 had have been cleared up and it seem perfect had hdcp on dvi also has component and vga i plan to get a blue ray drive or ps3 can decide at the moment as blue ray drives in Ireland are just as dear as the console... any way i have tried some 720 hd content through it so far and is fantastic dont have any 1080p yet but if it lives up to the reviews then i will be more than happy
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July 15, 2007 10:11:31 PM

You want a 24" LCD. The resolution of 22" LCDs is too low to support 1080i/p without having to resize the video.

There are basically two types of 24" LCDs, 6-bit and 8-bit. 6-bit LCDs uses the cheaper TN panel which is great for games 'cause of low response times (5ms), but bad for video 'cause of poor color accuracy, viewing angles, image artifacts due to 6-bit colors. You want a LCD based on an 8-bit panel whether the technology is P-MVA, S-PVA or the more expensive S-IPS.

There are currently two 6-bit TN 24" LCD monitors for sale, the Acer AL2416WBsd, and the SAMSUNG 245BW. Both can be purchased for less than $525. 8-bit 24" LCD monitors start at $650 and are well worth if you don't want to see video artifacts when watching HD content especially 1080i/p. The Dell 2407WFP can be bought for less than $650, but you'll need to wait for a sale.

My 24" LCD monitor short list included:
BenQ FP241WZ
Dell 2407WFP
NEC LCD2470WNX

Ultimately, I think I'll skip past the 24" LCDs and go for the 26" Planar PX2611W.
July 15, 2007 10:22:50 PM

Thank you all for the informative responses. I was having trouble comparing some monitors at my local bb, fry's, and microcenter, mainly because some monitors are hooked up via vga while other through dvi. Does the connection make a big difference when testing video?

The reason I ask this is because Ive have been testing 1080p video (WMV encoded trailers) at each monitor (through my handy flash drive!). Would these types of files be a good indication of HD DVD or Blue Ray Performance?

I have tested both the Acer and Samsung models but havent been able to get my hands on a Dell or BenQ one. Looks like the search continues.
July 15, 2007 10:40:51 PM

I think it is better to view videos through DVI, but VGA should be just as good unless you are going to compare video images frame by frame.

WMV should be good enough especially since it is doubtful that the computers will have the H.264 codec install (haven't played with that one yet). You should download some 1080p videos from Microsoft's site, especially scene that are captured underwater. Those types of scenes tend to be very demanding on the LCD panel itself and the inferior ones should display some image artifacts.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx
July 15, 2007 11:18:00 PM

Wow..I have to admit this thread has some extremely nice responses. I apologize for the hijack but I'm planning to get a rig in the next few months (hopefully by years end...waiting for g90 but might jump the gun with a cheaper card to hold me by till the g90/92 come out). I am indeed a gamer...I also do video editing as well and love watching videos at high def. The question is..ATM I'm using a CRT monitor. I believe now that LCD's have finally got to the point where they are good buys I might make the switch.

But...I'm a bit worried. I take my gaming competitively...So a MS delay in flat panels is kinda scary when playing First person shooters where reaction speed and reflexes are important. I also plan to play MMORPG's with very vibrant and rich AND dark colors as well...As well as watching movies in high def...I was planning to get a 22, 24, or 27 inch flat panel IF I did switch over. What would your thoughts be on this matter? If I go flat panel now I'll definitely get a 24 or 27 incher thx the info about high def video resolutions...

But what monitors should I be looking at? Money isn't a issue atm..I was originally planning to buy the 24 or 27 inch dell but I haven't read the specifications of it just yet. Was trying to find a place that I can pay monthly but it's not that big of an issue. I will have a overclocked rig and a overclocked cutting edge graphics card when I purchase so I won't have too many problems about a high native resolution flat planel. I think I've chattered on long enough. What brands and models should I be looking at?..Also do they even make any 22 or higherCRT's that are actually good? The MS response time on flat panels really scares me when it comes to First person shooters >_<.

Looking forward to your responses ^_^.
July 16, 2007 2:11:47 AM

Ghosting will be perceived differently by everyone. Some will see ghosting on a 8ms LCD monitor, others will not. 24" inch LCDs are typically rated at 5ms or 6ms. The cheaper 6-bit TN panels will have 5ms response times and lower visual quality for HD content. The more expensive 8-bit 24" LCDs have 6ms response times.

The best thing to do is go to a local store and see if they have a Gateway 24" (which uses an 8-bit S-PVA panel) hooked up to a PC that's running a game.

If you want an 8-bit panel that has a response time of 5ms, then you'll need to step up to a 26" LCD like the Planar PX211W.

July 16, 2007 3:03:46 AM

Hmm...I see. So overall the 8 bits are the choice I want for lush colors as well as blacks as well? Interesting to see though that the 8 bit 5 ms is only available at 26". Considering the fact that I like to game and competitively as well as enjoy high def video. Do you think it'd be a justified choice to get a 26" monitor at 8 bit with 5ms response time? Or is it a small difference from a 24" at 8 bit with a 6 MS response? Regarding the ghosting I have extremely keen eyes when it comes do this sort of stuff. I do heavy video editing and also encode quite a lot so I look for flaws and mess with my settings to obtain maximum quality with the best file size possible. I also sharp eye sight so I know I'll be able to pick out ghosting like I have for nearly all the flat panels I've seen..(through friends monitors that is ^_^)

I gotta make sure I get a good choice on this monitor. Since I hope for it to last me quite a long time. Do any of these companies have a zero dead pixel guarantee?

Curious though...Do they even make any CRT's at the 24-27 range at wide screen usage?..or no?...just want to make sure I've explored every option available. I'm going to start pulling up some of the flat panels you mentioned. Is there any chance you can post a few links to flat panels that would fit my needs?...I've been looking at monitors for the last 3 hours and really getting a head ache..lol..going to continue searching though ^_^.

Last question...Are there any new technologies or upcoming models which are worth looking into?..considering I have a now till December choice on waiting for a new monitor for my new rig.

-edit

Ohh!..almost forgot. Do any of these caliber flat panels sport a HDMI connector? I want to also be able to plug in the current and next generation gaming consoles if possible ^_^.
July 16, 2007 3:27:32 AM

this has a 2ms response time samsung syncmaster 226bw
July 16, 2007 6:13:55 AM

maverick7 said:
this has a 2ms response time samsung syncmaster 226bw


As I stated before, the resolution of 22" LCDs is lower than 1080i/p so any HD video at 1080i/p needs to be resized down to 1680 x 1050. 1080i/p is 1920 x 1080.

All 22" LCD monitors use inferior 6-bit TN panels. Based on reviews and screenshots, TN panels have an increased tendency to display visible artifacts when viewing 1080i/p video.
July 16, 2007 6:22:32 AM

Jaguar...How would I go about noticing the 6 bit and 8 bit specs? So far through the ones I've looked it hasn't stated which they are.
July 16, 2007 6:58:31 AM

Kamrooz said:
Do you think it'd be a justified choice to get a 26" monitor at 8 bit with 5ms response time? Or is it a small difference from a 24" at 8 bit with a 6 MS response? Regarding the ghosting I have extremely keen eyes when it comes do this sort of stuff.


Keep in mind that specs given by the manufacturers are under ideal conditions. A 5ms or 6ms response can actually be as high as 25ms depending on how complex the video is being displayed. The same can be said of any 2ms monitors. The only way to determine if you will see ghosting is to test out the monitor. This is not very practical since many most LCD monitors are not sold by brick & mortor stores. Even the LCDs carried by stores will not all be connected to a computer with a FPS game for you to test drive.

Of the 4 monitors I listed in a previous post, none are sold in stores. They are only sold by online stores.

BenQ FP241WZ
Dell 2407WFP
NEC LCD2470WNX

Planar PX2611W

You should be able to find official reviews for the BenQ and the Dell since there are many of them on the web. The NEC may be a little more difficult, but I found a few when I was doing my research.

As for the Planar, there are no official reviews for it. They are a very small player in the consumer market. Most of their monitors are geared towards the medical field. Of the monitors that they sell to the general consumer, most are geared towards the office rather than the home market. I did some extensive research for my Planar PX191 that I bought about 4 years ago. There were no official reviews either, I simply bought it based on several user reviews. I am really satisfied with my PX191 even though it is really not a monitor for gaming. It has excellent colors and black is very dark. I would need to view the monitor in low light to notice light bleeding from the four corners.

The Planar PX2611W is approximately $1,000 which may be too much for you swallow without an official review. As a satisfied Planar customer I am less hesitant about buying the PX2611W. The following is a link to Hardforum's thread about this monitor, and the Display Section of their forum is very active.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1180069

There is some debate as to the panel technology used by the Planar PX2611W. For the record it uses a S-IPS panel which is the best you can buy from a graphics professional point of view. The debate is whether the panel is a "generic" S-IPS panel or a new derivate, the H-IPS. I have no idea what the H-IPS offers compared to the S-IPS panel.

Kamrooz said:


I gotta make sure I get a good choice on this monitor. Since I hope for it to last me quite a long time. Do any of these companies have a zero dead pixel guarantee?


No. However I heard of online stores that offers a zero dead pixel guarantee for a fee.

Kamrooz said:

Curious though...Do they even make any CRT's at the 24-27 range at wide screen usage?..or no?


They are becoming increasingly rare, but if you search long enough you should come up with something.

Kamrooz said:

Last question...Are there any new technologies or upcoming models which are worth looking into?..considering I have a now till December choice on waiting for a new monitor for my new rig.


Check out the following sites for info:

http://www.behardware.com/

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

I believe TrustedReviews.com also reviews monitors.

roberthinds said:

Ohh!..almost forgot. Do any of these caliber flat panels sport a HDMI connector? I want to also be able to plug in the current and next generation gaming consoles if possible ^_^.


Only the BenQ FP241W from my list.
July 16, 2007 3:58:30 PM

Kamrooz said:
Jaguar...How would I go about noticing the 6 bit and 8 bit specs? So far through the ones I've looked it hasn't stated which they are.


It is not very easy to distinguish if a LCD monitor is using a 6-bit TN panel or an 8-bit panel (P-MVA, S-PVA, S-IPS). One way is by looking at the view angles, TN panels are usually listed with 160/160 or less, 8-bit panels are typically 178/178 (more or less). In the past TN panels usually listed 16.2 million colors, while 8-bit panels listed 16.7 colors. This is not the case any more since almost all TN panels lists 16.7 million colors.

So what does 6-bit or 8-bit has anything to do with colors?

The bits are used to represent each shade of color; Red, Blue, Green. Using binary math a 6-bit panel produces 2^6 or 2x2x2x2x2x2 or 64 shades of each color. On the other hand an 8-bit panel produces 2^8 or 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 or 256 shades of each color.

Since the are three different colors, a 6-bit panel can only produce 64^3 or 64x64x64 or 262,144 colors. Through a process called interpolation, the TN can "guess" the remaining 16 million other colors. Because the monitor is only working with 6-bit colors, they tend to be faster than 8-bit panels.

Since 8-bit panels can produce 256 shades of each color, they can fully reproduce 16.7 million colors. That's 256^3 or 256x256x256 or 16,777,216 colors.

Anywaste, going back to how to determine the difference between the specs of a 6-bit and 8-bit panel/monitor, it is done mostly by research. Check out the following link for more info:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

As I stated before, the Acer AL2416WBsd, and the SAMSUNG 245BW are 6-bit panels in the 24" category. They have a listed response time of 5ms as opposed to 6ms for LCD monitors using 8-bit panels. Therefore, avoid any 24" LCD with 5ms for the moment if you are looking for an 8-bit LCD monitor.
July 16, 2007 4:02:51 PM

Although very rare, some people will call a 6-bit monitor an 18-bit monitor because each of the three colors use 6-bits to represents the shades.

8-bit monitors are rarely referred to as 24-bit monitors. Same principle as above, three colors each using 8-bits.

July 16, 2007 5:55:05 PM

I read EVERY page of that forum link you gave me. Damn lcd's have a language of their own...As expected like most computer categories have their own.

Overall I'm pretty much 95% decided to get a planar px2611w...I'm actually considering the NEC after I noticed the contrast ratio was a lot lower then the information Toasty posted on those forums. The NEC looks really nice as well but a 5-600 dollar difference is pretty frastic. I might end up going with the NEC if I have free cash to spend. but so far that planar model is what I'm interested in. nice large monitor with a decent price tag. I was planning to go with the 24 or 27 inch dell...But considering I want a bigger then 24 incher now I decided to drop the idea. As well as the fact that the Dell uses a PVA panel compared to the H-IPS that the NEC and Planar panel being used. It was posted that the planar has a 72% color thingamajig. I'm not quite sure what it was called since it was way too much reading and I don't feel like going through it again..lol..But some people said it had a 92% wide gamut (I think that was the term). Is that the same thing that was mentioned earlier in that Dell 24 incher that was an extra 10 dollars?...or?...kinda confused on that.

Also...How difficult is it to calibrate these LCD panels?..and how much do the calibrators cost?...Are they software or hardware based?...

Overall that's pretty mucha ll I got on my mind. Thanks for all the help again...Shed a lot of light on my choices ^_^.
July 16, 2007 6:35:06 PM

92% color gamut offers "truer color", but it may look weird to people who are used to seeing 72% color gamut. The wide color gamut were originally for professional level LCDs for graphic artist, but the technology has finally started to filter down into the consumer market level.

Click the following link for some screen shots the shows the difference between the two monitors.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=162570

As for calibrating an LCD, you can do it manually if you have the patience and a digital image as well as a high quality print out of that digital image. But it will not be a good as a hardware solution, such as the Spyder 2:

http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/review/colorvison/spyder2/colorvision_spyder2_en.html

It is not cheap though, Amazon is selling it for $250.

http://www.amazon.com/ColorVision-Spyder-2-Win-Mac/dp/B0006JMILO

I'm hoping to eventually get the PX2611W soon. I'm still recovering from my 2006 Income Tax bill which was much more than I expected. I'll gonna try and borrow an LCD calibrator from a friend a mine who works in an IT dept. Hopefully they use one.

July 16, 2007 11:57:22 PM

Jesus!..250 dollars for that color spyder? Damn that is truly expensive for just a piece of hardware/software to set up your colors correctly. >_<. I'm glad to see that it has the 92% wide gamut as features. When I saw the link you reposted about that dell true color I really wanted it. It might look weird to some but I can easily see the quality difference. So crisp and clear with transitions in the color, really brings out the depth of quality in imagery.. Unfortunately I'm not getting my new rig just this moment...I'll have it before the end of the year though thank god. Luckily Newegg happens to have the Planar flat panel. so I can just become a preferred account member or whatever it's called for a 6 month no finance plan. Pay it off in 5 payments to make it easier on the wallet.

Would you recommend the NEC over the planar?..even though it's more expensive out of that forum link you gave me, it seems it has much less backlight bleeding...As well as the fact it actually hits the contrast ratio it states in the spec while the planar was hitting around the 400 mark. Hopefully toasty just got a bad one..but still trying to figure out if it's justified to spend 600 more dollars on a flatpanel. The most important thing is for this monitor to last me many years. making this big of an investment...you'd expect the monitor to last 5-10 years...lol..

Overall I'm pretty giddy I have to admit. The only downside is the fact that I'm so hyped on a new rig with a new flat panel that it's going to make the time go MUCH slower...and that is not cool considering I might have to wait 5 months. are there any upcoming new technologies in future flat panels that I should wait/look out for?..

If I end up having enough cash to get that spyder I might end up doing it also...but probably not...250 is a bit much just for a calibration. I do make layouts and work with photos but I never really print them out much. But it would be better to have it calibrated so I atleast know my layouts are the colors I'm setting them too. overall I got a lot of thinking to do. >_<..lol..Thanks for all the help man. ^_^..I truly can't wait to play the future upcoming MMO's like "Aion: The Tower of Eternity"...with it's extremely lush and dark area's it'll look fantastic on one of these flat panels on a overclocked enthusiast build ^_^...Oooohh sooo gidddyyy! ^.^...Now that I think about it I might have to get that spyder anyways. I just realized the amount of color modifications I make to video in some of my video projects. Need them to be accurate since I send most of my projects to various contests..>_<...bah..another 250...lol..
July 17, 2007 1:07:50 AM

Kamrooz said:

Would you recommend the NEC over the planar?..even though it's more expensive out of that forum link you gave me, it seems it has much less backlight bleeding...


It really depends on if the backlight bleed of the Planar is too much for your liking. The PX2611W's backlight bleeding is really not all that bad, but the NEC definitely has less bleeding and it is more uniform. There's also the issue of 92% wide color gamut. The NEC definitely has it, but it's not cut and dry with the Planar. Most people say based on the images, it is wide gamut, but there are a few who says it is standard 72% color gamut. I would assume that the Planar does have 92% wide color gamut. There are only two 26" LCD monitors in the market, that's a small market for more than just one company to make a 26" LCD panel (IMHO).

As for contrast ratio, since both monitors uses the same LCD panel, it is possible that the specific panel used in the Planar PX2611W was just slightly under spec due to production variations. However, the NEC's 26" LCD does cost $600 more and I'm sure there's more to it than just their name such as the uniform backlighting. $1,600 is a bit too rich for my blood, I'm gonna stick with the Planar. However if my job depended on extreme color accuracy where what I see on the screen is what will be printed on a high end color printer, then that's a different story.

You can extend the warranty of the Planar monitor by 1 year for $200 which can be purchased from Planar's website as long as the monitor is still within the 3 year warranty period. It's a bit steep in my opinion. Some sites may offer extended warranties on products that they sell.

My Planar PX191 is still going on strong after 4 years, so I would opt not to get the extended warranty.

BTW, www.newegg.com no longer lists the Planar PX2611W.








July 17, 2007 1:16:16 AM

Kamrooz said:
are there any upcoming new technologies in future flat panels that I should wait/look out for?..


I guess the most anticipate technology to hit the LCD market is LED backlighting as opposed to conventional Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamps (CCFL) backlighting used in current generation of LCD monitors.

LED backlighting offers longer life and even wider color gamut (160% ??).

This technology have actually hit the market, but it is really, really expensive. Samsung or NEC has released a 20" LCD using LED that cost $3,000 the last time I checked 2 months ago. I don't expect this technology to be competitively priced with LCDs using CCFL (meaning only $100 - $150 difference) for maybe another 3 or 4 years.
July 17, 2007 1:46:13 AM

Another reason why the NEC is $600 is that it is a "10-bit" monitor.

No, it's really not 10-bits 'cause if it was then doing the math it would be able to display over 1 billion colors. It does 10-bit gamma enhancement which basically means that it takes the 8-bit colors match it up against a 10-bit color table, then returns to 8-bit mode to display even more accurate colors. I think NEC call it ColorTones.

Needless to say this extra step slows down response times. With ColorTones enabled, the response time is rated at 16ms. With ColorTones disabled response times drops to 8ms.

So if the Planar and NEC supposedly uses the same 26" LCD panel, why is the Planar 2ms faster?

This is due to what Planar calls RapidVideo. Samsung calls it OverDrive. Other companies will have different names for it. Basically what's going is that the pixels are being overvolted so that they can switch colors more rapidly. This is why 22" LCD monitors are as fast as 2ms. NEC probably uses overvolting to a lesser degree than Planar's monitor, or they are more conservative with their rating. Of course it's possible that it uses a different 26" LCD panel as well.

The downside to overvolting pixels is that it increases color inaccuracy because overvolting tends to overcompensate on color brightness. For example, on an 8-bit LCD monitor GREEN000 will be nearly black, GREEN255 will be nearly white. If there is quick scene change where a color must change to GREEN125, a monitor that overvolts will quickly display GREEN150 and then slow fade to GREEN125. Unless the color is required to change again.

Some people say that overvolting pixels can cause a "halo" effect where there is a glow that exist for a very short time even after the image has disappeared. This is not the same as ghosting where you would see after-images of the same image.
July 17, 2007 2:36:06 AM

Interesting...I'll probably just nab the Planar...

Unfortunately newegg did take it down. I saw it on there earlier today but it was out of stuck. When I clicked the line it said it was disabled. Guess they are either removing it permanently or temporarily till they restock?..I hope that; sthe case..I need to find a place to pay monthly payments. I can't afford a grand straight up for a monitor. Especially considering I'm buying my new rig at the same time...Was going to pay for the computer all at once and monthly for the monitor.
July 18, 2007 10:42:22 PM

jaguarskx said:

Since the are three different colors, a 6-bit panel can only produce 64^3 or 64x64x64 or 262,144 colors. Through a process called interpolation, the TN can "guess" the remaining 16 million other colors. Because the monitor is only working with 6-bit colors, they tend to be faster than 8-bit panels.



Small correction.

The process is officially called dithering which blends the colors a 6-TN panel can actually produce to form the remaining 16 million other colors that it cannot produce on it's own.
July 19, 2007 6:09:35 AM

Since this thread went from asking about 22" and 24" LCDs to the 26" Planar PX2611w I figure I might as well post a link to the first hardware (as opposed to user) review of this monitor in case anyone is following this thread. I'll also post it in the Flat Panel/LCD section of the forum where LCD monitor threads really belongs

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=1

Quote:
For web surfing and general application use, I find that the display is very capable. It's so very crisp and sharp. The text is very clear and that is easy on the eyes. I can easily have two browsers open on the screen, next to each other. If your computer won't do the screen's native 1920x1200 resolution, the monitor will scale the screen (more on that later) well. 1280x1024 and 1024x768, while a bit soft, looked fine on the desktop for general use. 1280x720 worked fine, too. 1440x900 uses the same aspect ratio and so will fill the screen properly in aspect mode (more on that later too).

For gaming, the monitor tests to a little bit less than one frame of lag (about 12ms) . This is very good for an LCD. The test was using a VGA splitter comparing it to a CRT. CRTs have virtually no lag and are a good comparative benchmark. This LCD has no electronics to introduce input lag such as DCR (dynamic contrast), and no color critical electronics. All good for gaming!


Quote:
One unfortunate note: There is undesirable color banding at 'real' (1 to 1) mode at 1080p and 1080i (1920x1080), but the banding disappears in 'full' aspect mode. It's not visible in movies but it is in games. This means that you might notice some quality loss at 1 to 1 in those modes: If you use 'full' aspect mode, the image will be stretched vertically some but have no banding. These modes are the only ones where I noticed the banding. Native 1920x1200 doesn't have that banding nor does any other resolution I tested.


Quote:
The Planar 26" PX2611W is a great all-purpose widescreen monitor that delivers an incredible image. It delivers a great value, considering what you are getting, a 26" S-IPS LCD monitor. A three year warranty makes it a more comfortable buy too. Computers and video equipment are increasingly capable of pushing out great color at high resolutions and this display can handle that in stride. The fact that it is great for PC gaming pushes this display over-the-top and into the 'superb for just about anything' category.
July 19, 2007 7:37:28 PM

The only real thing I'm worried about is the banding at 1080p/i via consoles. I'm planning to use this monitor for my main computer as well as HDMI to DVI converters to use consoles on the monitor. But considering the banding it really brings down the idea of buying the monitor. looked into the NEC since it doesn't have banding but it does have more lag at 2 frames...Bah..This is tough. What do you think Jaguar?

I read a review of the NEC and it says it's a great monitor for fine color crazed people. It also has a internal calibrator which is nice. But still confused on which to get...The nec is more pricey. But if I get a planar I'd probably get a color spyder for calibration..So it'd come out to around 1250...compared to the 1600 of the nec. They also sell the planar at dell.com so I can get a 6 month payment plan with no interest till after the 6th month. But unfortunately they don't have the nec. Overall this is a tough situation.

What do you think?
July 19, 2007 11:28:29 PM

Some of the negative comments about the banding at 1080i/p doesn't really concern me since I plan to use it strictly as a PC monitor. However, since you are a competitive console player I am sure you are a bit disappointed.

ToastyX from HardForum ultimately decided to return his Planar PX2611W, however he is not the typical consumer looking for a great LCD. He has a very critical eye. I am a pretty critical consumer, but not as much as he is. The Planar is still at the top of my list, but I am also consider other monitors as well.

For you I would probably recommend that NEC over the Planar since you intend to connect a gaming console to it. While it's specs is 2ms slower, it seems you will not need to deal with banding. I haven't researched the NEC 2690WUXi yet though. It would be nice to see a picture of the Planar with banding issues just to see how bad it really is. But you will need to consider the extra $600.

You may also want to consider the Dell 2707WFP which is on my research list. It is 1" larger, but it does not use the Holy Grail of LCD panels; an S-IPS panel. Instead it uses a S-PVA which still provides very good image and color quality. For the moment, I would probably recommend the Dell over the NEC for you because it is only about $10 - $30 more than the Planar. As critical as your eyes may be, you are not doing professional graphics on whichever LCD monitor you will buy. I would classify you and myself as a high-end consumers. We want the best we can buy, but we don't want to take out a mortgage to buy it.

I think the actual color and image quality between a S-IPS panel and a S-PVA panel will be negligible especially when you are playing a FPS game. If you're gonna worry about color accuracy being off by 0.5% in a fire fight, then you might as well paint a big target symbol on yourself.

I really need to research the Dell 2707WFP, but my recommendation for you based on these three monitors are:

1st Choice: Dell 2707WFP (1" larger and basically the same price as the Planar, pending research)
2nd Choice: NEC 2690WUXi (because it is $600 more)
3rd Choice: Planar PX2611W (because you will see some banding during play, but I'm not sure how bad it really is)

July 20, 2007 12:23:00 AM

Jaguar, youve demonstrated a good knowledge of LCDs. I havent paid attention since I bought my dell 24" a few years ago. Im considering replacing the sony 22" CRT in my MAME cabinet with a ViewSonic VX2835WM 28" . They are fairly new, so I havent seen a lot of informed reviews for them, but at $700 for a 27.5" LCD with an average 3ms response, they are awfully tempting. Do you have any info on these
July 20, 2007 12:31:03 AM

Thanks for the info jag. I'm going to skip the idea of the dell though and go for the planar or NEC still though. I might end up getting the planar still since I won't be playing consoles AS MUCH as I'll be using my pc for editing and what not. But so far the Planar and NEC are neck and neck for me...If I can find the NEC for a monthly payment plan so I can atleast pay in 3-6 installments then I'll probably nab the nec. But The planars competitive price is still a big advantage. I'd rather spend a grand on a monitor and spend the extra 600 on my rig. But I'll just have to wait and see how everything turns out. Both monitors are looking fantastic but the banding issue is the only obstacle...Whatever flatpanel I choose I'm going to stay with a S/H-IPS panel..^_^..I want the best panel on that one...I still might end up going with the planar though...I just hope that 1080p/i video isn't so bad....But once again..Time will tell what I choose further down the road.
July 20, 2007 3:14:51 AM

turpit said:
Jaguar, youve demonstrated a good knowledge of LCDs. I havent paid attention since I bought my dell 24" a few years ago. Im considering replacing the sony 22" CRT in my MAME cabinet with a ViewSonic VX2835WM 28" . They are fairly new, so I havent seen a lot of informed reviews for them, but at $700 for a 27.5" LCD with an average 3ms response, they are awfully tempting. Do you have any info on these


Based on the information I can tell you that this monitor uses a 6-bit TN panel. I provided some info about the difference between a 6-bit and 8-bit panel before. I believe it is the 13th or 14th post in this thread. Too bad there are no post numbers.

If you plan on watching 1080p video on this monitor, you may experience some video artifacts due to the fact that this is a 6-bit monitor. That's assuming the video itself is perfect. A poorly encoded video will have image artifacts and no monitor will be able to hide it. In fact and LCD will exasperate the artifacts.

Here's a link to a short review:

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=84470

The reviewer liked the monitor overall, but there is a minor annoyance:

Quote:
Under HDMI, we found the ideal setting to be 60 as it kept things sharp without creating artefacts, while 100 looked awful. We hope this is fixed in upcoming firmware revisions of the panel, as it’s certainly a show-stopper for us. The monitor has no issues with this through composite/component.


Here's what the reviewer liked:

Quote:
As an added bonus, component worked perfectly in 1080p using our Xbox 360.

DisplayMate revealed the ability to distinguish from 1 to 251 out of 255 shades on the greyscale tests, and on the colour ramps it showed the rare ability of not getting too dark too quickly. Movies were amazingly good, as was gaming, providing you ignore the wasteful preset image modes and settle for your own custom settings. Viewing angles are decent meaning a few people can join in on the fun, but Dell’s 2707 was better in this regard.


Here's a link to Hardforum where someone started a thread about this monitor. So far there aren't many posts, but that could change. Their Planar PX2611W thread was quiet for about 3 weeks or so, then the thread jumped from 3 pages worth of posts to 17 pages of posts.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1202282

Here's another more recent thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1031275655

July 20, 2007 4:51:55 AM

Ohh almost forgot. For the planar and nec I just need to use 1 DVI port correct?..Or do I have to use 2 DVI connectors like how I'd believe a 30 inch dell would. Reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on still running my CRT for video editing as a secondary display. ^_^
July 20, 2007 5:51:05 AM

You won't need two DVI ports until you move up to a 30" LCD.
July 20, 2007 6:11:10 AM

This thread makes me want to get a new monitor now! Jaguar has helped me in another thread but I wanted to ask more questions and this thread seems good for the question I have. I was looking at buying the Lg with hdmi input but talking about these other monitors gets me interested. I was wondering if I got a tv tuner and/or a hdtv over the air tuner if that would be as good as an hdtv for tv and gaming (pc and console that is).

Also, the BenQ's seem better than the Lg I was looking at but I was wondering what is the difference between these models, they all look the same but the middle one that looks more like a tv and has a webcam which is pretty sweet ;) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E... 0001583+1309821328&name=24%22

I am going to college in 2 yrs so I was sort of looking towards the future for a smaller than 40' 1080p tv/monitor. I would definitly like hdmi for new devices such as bluray and hd dvd players or the new systems. should I just wait till 09 and get a hdtv and use it as a monitor or get a BenQ and hopefully it will last through college or get a monitor closer to college? I definitly don't want a huge a$$ hdtv though that is why if I get an hdtv it will be closer to 09 when hopefully smaller tv's are made and maybe they aren't so damn expensive.

One last thing, I've heard about this 7 inch lcd 1080p screen, is there a place to buy it and if so could I make a projector out of it and have good response time and contrast ratio?

edit:btw if something doesn't make sense it is because I have a migraine, lately I've been having cluster migraines so if you read some of my other threads you might see this disclaimer, lol
July 20, 2007 11:09:37 AM

Since the thread has moved to 26" monitors and the NEC is quite costly at that size, I would still think the 2470WNX to be of good price/performance at US$780.

I also DO NOT recommend the 28" Viewsonic, and the 2611's racing stripes. At this point one could also begin to talk about the 32" Sharp TV/monitor at 1920x1080 for about US$1400-1500. Might as well have a tuner or two installed!
July 23, 2007 12:55:04 AM

Cowcrusher,

Your 2nd & 3rd link are broken.

The three BenQ's you are trying to compare are:

1. FP241W
2. FP241WZ
3. FP241VW

The FP241W is the first one to be released. Basically it uses an 8-bit S-PVA designed by AUO. Those with firmware prior to January 2007 had issues with either HDMI or 1:1 pixel mapping issues.

The FP241WZ introduces what BenQ call AMA-Z. Basically it adds a new tech called BFI, or black frame insertion. It is used to help simulate smooth motion like that of a CRT monitor. It's a hit or miss option that can make the game look better or worse by creating something of an afterglow effect when used. However, there are three settings from what I've read to optimize motion quality. You can also disable BFI.

As for the FP241VW, I haven't done any research on it, but it is similar to the WZ model in that it uses BFI technology. There was some speculation that this monitor would be using a new type of 8-bit panel known as A-MVA, made by AUO. But to the best of my knowledge, it uses the same S-PVA panel as the WZ model. The space underneath the monitor is for storing your keyboard when it is not used.
July 23, 2007 1:04:09 AM

jaguarskx said:
Cowcrusher,

Your 2nd & 3rd link are broken.

The three BenQ's you are trying to compare are:

1. FP241W
2. FP241WZ
3. FP241VW

The FP241W is the first one to be released. Basically it uses an 8-bit S-PVA designed by AUO. Those with firmware prior to January 2007 had issues with either HDMI or 1:1 pixel mapping issues.

The FP241WZ introduces what BenQ call AMA-Z. Basically it adds a new tech called BFI, or black frame insertion. It is used to help simulate smooth motion like that of a CRT monitor. It's a hit or miss option that can make the game look better or worse by creating something of an afterglow effect when used. However, there are three settings from what I've read to optimize motion quality. You can also disable BFI.

As for the FP241VW, I haven't done any research on it, but it is similar to the WZ model in that it uses BFI technology. There was some speculation that this monitor would be using a new type of 8-bit panel known as A-MVA, made by AUO. But to the best of my knowledge, it uses the same S-PVA panel as the WZ model. The space underneath the monitor is for storing your keyboard when it is not used.


would these monitors compare to hd tv's for tv/pc and console gaming?
July 23, 2007 1:24:59 AM

In general, some LCD monitors have issues with correctly displaying 1080i/p. Each has it's own quirks, I'm sure there are a few that have no issues at all, but I don't know which LCD monitors those are.

Playing console games makes it even harder to judge which monitor is best for you. LCD monitors may not display the correct aspect ratio, or the graphics may look bad compared to playing it on a HDTV.

You should go check out the Display Forum at www.hardforum.com, it is pretty active.
July 23, 2007 11:23:27 PM

Here's a link that should help you out a little bit. It compares the BenQ FP241wZ, the Dell 2407WFP, and the LG L246WP.

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

The reviewer tested all the input connections those monitors had to offer and should provide you with some insight.
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