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Gamer Build & Questions

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July 17, 2007 4:37:09 AM

I will probably be building this system sometime in mid to late August. I am building this system to be a gaming machine and aim for great reliable performance with future games in mind.

I have three questions thus far; more will probably follow.

Question 1: I have used a PSU calculator and came to the conclusion that a safe bet for a power supply would be 1000w. Could some of you please recommend compatible power supplies for this setup?

Question 2: Is a floppy drive needed? I plan on running Windows Vista, but I am specifically asking whether a floppy drive would still be needed for say BIOS flashing, RAID driver installation, etc.

Question 3: I have read that Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound should be applied to even Intel retail processors. Is this true? Do the retail processors not come with some kind of compound pre-applied? I have found two compound products on NewEgg and am wondering how much compound is needed.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100008

The following is list of all the components which I have compiled thus far. I would be very appreciative if a few people would check over these to ensure compatibility; as I have not built a system in 6 years.


Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700
(not released yet)

Antec Performance One P182 Black
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005325

Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005

EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072

SAMSUNG 226BW 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10,000 RPM 16MB
(2 of these for a RAID 0 setup)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136033

ASUS Striker Extreme NV 680i Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131074

Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4 2GB
(2 of these for 4 GB total)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034

Samsung SH-S183L DVD+-RW/CD+-RW
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151141

APC Surge Protector PF11VNT3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817106223

More about : gamer build questions

July 17, 2007 1:49:54 PM

I think the system which you have build above is really good and will take you through at least for a year, but if you want a true gaming experience in the future and dont have a budget limitation, you should go ahead and make the GTX SLI. I mean put 2 of those monsters ;) 
July 17, 2007 3:32:01 PM

you don't "need" a 1000W PSU that doesn't mean you should get the bare minimum either, but you seem to know how important PSU is, this is my choice for you.

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) EPS12V 750W Continuous @ 40°C (825W Peak) Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, ULC, CE,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

One big ass 60A single rail psu that will power a rocket to the moon :) 

And no you don't need a floppy

And use this mobo instead

EVGA 122-CK-NF68-T1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Aside from being $100 cheaper with the same chipset, it's eVGA (I trust their standards a lot, especially over ASUS nowadays)

You should get some Arctic Silver 5, that paste that comes with the retail HSF is not very good, and just a bit of compound is needed about the size of 2 drops.

And remember to get Vista 64, not 32, otherwise you'll only see around 2.5GB-3GB of RAM and not the 4GB you paid for.
Related resources
July 17, 2007 4:23:30 PM

Ah, first time I've seen someone spec power protection with his build. Excellent.
@ Emp, how will he load RAID drivers without a floppy? Does Vista include them? Do they work? I won't trust Vista until the big beta test Microsquishy has consumers doing for them is over and they release a Service Pack.
July 17, 2007 5:14:22 PM

Oh sorry yeah, I didn't read the HDDs, you really can't screw up choosing an HDD (at least I don't think so...), you *might* need a floppy, so just reuse an old one or *gulp* buy one...
July 17, 2007 6:58:48 PM

I'll check the PSU out. I think that I will just go ahead and buy a floppy drive to be on the safe side; buying because I'll still keep this 6 year old system.

The only thing I ever had against eVGA was that I ordered a Geforce 7600 256 MB AGP 8x/4x graphics card to replace the Geforce 4 MX 440 128 MB AGP 4x in this system and ended up sending it back twice before I just caved and got my money back; it was artifacting badly.

I'll check the eVGA MB out and make sure it's got all I need though.

About the grease again, I specifically want to know if the retail Intel processors come with some type of compound already applied. If so, that'll have to be removed before applying the Arctic 5; what is the easiest/safest way to do that now days? I remember it being a real pain to replace grease on processors in the past.

I have been muling over the idea of Vista 64-bit in the back of my head. I have yet to research it enough to make a final decision as of yet. I do have programming knowledge, so I can understand the technical differences fairly well; I am mainly interested in the real world experiences of how some 32-bit applications actually respond in Vista 64-bit. I am mainly a gamer, so it is still important that my games respond well.

Also, I know some of the dual core processors offer slightly better performance on some games right now but I should stick with quad core for future games right?

...more to come I'm sure.
July 17, 2007 7:25:16 PM

Yeah why not, just go quad-core, for gaming it's far more important to have a good graphics card than a slightly faster CPU, and the few games that actually need the CPU power are already benefiting from quad cores (talking about supreme commander).

the paste comes on the HSF and it's on a solid state (it warmed and turned liquid by the CPU's heat), it's be a fairly easy task to remove it, probably by just gently scraping it with a knife and then using a Q-tip with alcohol to remove the remaining paste.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with eVGA, they usually have the highest of standards, could've been a bad batch of cards, but I can tell you that my card is eVGA and works flawlessly.

July 17, 2007 7:39:21 PM

Yeah, I figure it was just a bad batch.. so I didn't hold it against them when selecting the video card for this system. If NewEgg hadn't made it good for me, it'd probably be a different story.

Should I maybe just go for an after market cooler instead? I really hate cleaning that grease.. I can never get it all for sure..
July 17, 2007 7:54:26 PM

It is easy to get off, but the Arctic Cooler Freezer cpu coolers are nice fore the money. They come with some good paste already applied. With a quad core, the extra cooling will help for sure.

ewiz has the AC Freezer 7 for $22 shipped right now. Thats where I got mine.
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=FAN-AC7PRO
July 17, 2007 8:04:05 PM

The paste comes right off with 91% isopropyl alcohol. If you scrape it, use a plastic "picnic" knife so you don't put any scratches in the softer copper of the heat sink. Apply the new paste with a finger inside a plastic bag to keep finger-grease off of the HSF; a rice-grain amount should be enough.
July 17, 2007 8:14:55 PM

Oh, and thanks for the link, TSIMonster. I ordered one of those myself just now.
July 17, 2007 8:21:18 PM

On the PSU, What counts is the quality of the unit, and the amps at 12v. A 8800GTX system requires about 30amps on the 12 v rails. A good quality unit such as PC P&C, seasonic, in the 550-650 watt range should be fine, unless you plan on dual 8800GTX's, then look at the 1000w units.
You don't need a floppy, until you need it. I would get one, they are cheap.
AS5 is a good thermal compound. You only need a small amount, about the size of a grain of rice. Remove the stock compound with a bit of alcohol and a lint-free cloth or coffee filter. A small tube of AS5 will last you a dozen? applications. More is not better. The arctic silver web site has some instructions and photos. A decent aftermarket cooler would be good for you. A unit with a 120mm fan will keep your cpu quieter and cooler than stock.
Raid-0 does not improve real-world performance. Go to www.storagereview.com for all you might want to know about raid. I would recommend a single 150gb raptor. If you need more space for storage or backup, then get a second drive.
On board sound is quite good, at least to my numb ears. Try it first. If you think the sound could be better, then try a separate sound card.
I suspect that your gaming experience would be better, longer with a E6850 vs. a Q6700, and be half the cost. Use the savings to get the biggest and best monitor you can bring yourself to buy. You will enjoy it through several generations of PC technology.
---good luck---
July 17, 2007 9:03:40 PM

Well I had thought that maybe later I'd put another 8800 GTX in for SLI, but would it be better to just go ahead on that? When I did the PSU calculator I had figured for 2 PCI Express video cards and came up with like 870 watts needed including degradation and such; this is how I came to the conclusion to just get a 1000w. I'll find the P&C website and look into the 1000w.

On a side note, I want the system to last a good while... 3+ years if possible now days.. I am also considering Vista 64-bit with maybe 8 GB ram.

In respects to the RAID 0 performance, the games I play are mainly MMORPGs like FFXI. These games do load large single files for maps, so there would be a performance increase correct?

geofelt said:

I suspect that your gaming experience would be better, longer with a E6850 vs. a Q6700, and be half the cost. Use the savings to get the biggest and best monitor you can bring yourself to buy. You will enjoy it through several generations of PC technology.


I don't know.. I'd like to get more insight on this topic of dual vs quad core for future games.
July 17, 2007 9:47:44 PM

If, in the future, you feel the need for more graphics power, it will likely not be economic to add another 8800GTX. It would then be better to install the then best single card. If you feel the need for more capability than one 8800gtx, then the only current solution is two in sli, and your psu calculations seem right on.
Your system will be as good tomorrow, or in three years, as it is today. What will change is that there will be newer, cheaper, and faster components. None of your current high line system will probably be useable then with the new components, excepting of the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Get what suits you today, and plan on replacing it all when you are no longer satisfied.
Not correct on loading performance. Raid-0 shows impressive synthetic benchmark data transfer rates, but that is not real world. Do look at real world benchmarks of single user desktop workloads. The raptor150 is the best in almost every case, and it is vastly simpler.
For games, today, the VGA card is the critical component. That might change in the future, but today any of the cpu's you are considering will be excellent.
I see no problem with vista-64 bit. Vista is designed to take advantage of large amounts of memory.
July 17, 2007 9:55:38 PM

With the games that are currently out I don't really feel the need for another 8800.. It only increases the graphic memory right? However, I'm not sure how well another 8800 would improve performance in future games. I have to be considerate of future games.
July 17, 2007 10:10:39 PM

That's the only thing that SLI doesn't do, increase Video RAM :)  SLI cards increase fps because you have 2 cards processing instead of one, however you don't get 2x performance, you get about 120-135% performance.
July 17, 2007 10:21:46 PM

The paste that comes on most of the HSF's is usually pretty good, unless you buy a really cheap HSF. Even the stuff that comes on the Intel HSF is good.
July 17, 2007 10:48:16 PM

EV700 said:
I have to be considerate of future games.
The small improvement for current games in getting SLI 8800 GTX isnt the best solution for future games. Getting a next gen video card upgrade in 18-24 months should be the best solution for future games.
TSIMonster's advice for the AC Freezer 7 aftermarket cooler is right on. Better cooling than the stock intel HSF and its much quieter. Easy to install and easy fit for the P182 case. As mentioned - already has thermal paste (the right amount!) pre-applied to the base.
8GB RAM should be overkill even for future games. Saves you having to toss out 4GB RAM you're going to buy now to get 4x 2GB sticks later.
I also like the E6850 (or even E6750) option vs a Q6700 now. Save the difference and get your system a refresh in 18-24 months (CPU & GPU) for best performance in future games.
IMO if you're spending more on the motherboard than you are for 4GB of RAM you're probably spending too much on the motherboard or not enough on the RAM.
July 17, 2007 10:55:19 PM

That's another big issue right now.. a next gen video card will probably be PCI Express 2.0; so here we are facing the 8x/4x headache again!

I think the best bet is to just build for today with 2 years of support in mind and not worry about anything after that.

I was checking that all the hardware we have mentioned so far has Vista 64 bit drivers and I can't find any drivers at all for the sound card....

nm... it's hidden in the knowledgebase..

The Samsung SH-S183L cd/dvd drive doesn't state vista 64 bit compatability...

-------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
Update:
----------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

I have decided to go with the AC Freezer 7 instead of the Intel stock cooling.

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Heatsink/Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134

Alright, I have decided to go with Vista 64-bit OEM; I hope I'm not making a mistake going OEM. I have also decided to not go with RAID and to replace the 2 WD Raptor 74 GB with the following:

Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM 16MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148140

I decided to get the SONY Black Floppy Drive MPF920 because it was the best rated on NewEgg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16821103116

By going with Vista 64-bit, will I need to find a new replacement for the CD/DVD burner?

I am still trying to decide on a processor and power supply.


Edit 2: Is this good?
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/product/Power/ToughPower/w0155/w0155.asp
July 18, 2007 2:19:48 PM

At $330 the Thermaltake Toughpower W0155RU PSU had better be a good PSU. And it is.
I saw your other PSU question and noticed you were confused about Amperage and Wattage (Amps x Volts = Watts)
Check out the sticky topic The "power supply FAQ" in the Power Supplies, PC Cases & Case Mods. They also rank order the PSUs in the link @ PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's and Recommended Sub-$150, high-efficiency PSU's links. It should help you in the cost vs quality comparison.


Vista 64-bit OEM
OEM vs Retail option - the question to go with OEM vs Retail boils down to this. The OEM version MUST remain with the PC its installed on. Check the disclaimer on the Specs tab @ NewEgg.
The Retail version is "portable" so you can install it on the next system(s) you buy.
July 18, 2007 2:38:17 PM

In return for a lower purchase price for an OEM operating system, you lose two things. 1) The OS can not be easily transferred to a new machine. A machine is defined by the same motherboard. This can really be done if you convince Microsoft that you have replaced the motherboard, and that the OS will be installed on only one machine. A retail version also can be only used on one machine, but the activation process is easier. 2) On OEM, there is no microsoft support, it is the OEM manufacturer who provides support; that is you. You do get updates but if you need to call them with an incident, you are out of luck.
Vista is really good about including drivers for most current line equipment, possibly excepting sould cards. I would be surprised if you would have a problem with any common dvd/cd hardware.
The thermaltake 1000watt powersupply is good, but it is overkill if you don't plan on a second 8800GTX. Their
600watt unit would be more than enough. Other good candidates would be PC P&C 610w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Seasonic E+ 650W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... or Corsair 620w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I think I would order a small tube of AS-5. It doesn't cost much, AS-5 is about as good as it gets(shin-etsu X-23 is a bit better), and you may need to reseat the heat sink if you don't get it on quite right the first time. If you reseat, you should clean off the old tim, and reapply new.
Good choice on the two HDD's
---good luck---
July 18, 2007 3:29:24 PM

geofelt said:
In return for a lower purchase price for an OEM operating system, you lose two things. 1) The OS can not be easily transferred to a new machine. A machine is defined by the same motherboard.


that's not true, we use OEM copies of vista and XP at work all the time and have never had a problem re-activating windows after a hardware failure/upgrade - you just have to call them and tell them that you've upgraded a machine, thrown the old hardware away and that yes this is the only machine running that particular licence and they give you a number to type in

this is exactly the same process you have to go through if you have a non-oem copy of the OS
July 18, 2007 8:32:11 PM

Lots of little things to add.

1) RE Floppy drive. Download and check the manual of the mobo you plan to purchase to see if you need to install raid/sata drivers when installing an OS. If you DON'T, then you will most likely never need a floppy drive. You should be able to use a USB key drive or CD-R for anything that traditionally uses a floppy. However, for $8, why not get one.

2) RE HDDs. I think your change to a single raptor with additional storage drive is not bad. I was going to suggest a separate large drive for storage to go along with your raid-0 setup but that no longer applies. IMHO there ARE noticable advantages to raid-0 in gaming and general surfing/email use, although I don't have a 10,000rpm drive for comparing.

3) RE OEM OS. I agree with andybird123. I have only ever used OEM OSs and have never had a problem with activation, even when I need to phone and let them know the hardware has changed. The only downside of OEM, is you are not able to upgrade an older OS, which isn't all that much of a disadvantage. 8)

4) RE the APC Surge Protector. I love these things. I have 3 of them (one for each computer). If you are near one, check your local Costco. That's where I've bought mine from (they've carried them for years, although they don't seem to have them online) and they are less than $25 ... in Canada even.

Good building! 8-)
July 18, 2007 8:56:19 PM

WR2 said:
At $330 the Thermaltake Toughpower W0155RU PSU had better be a good PSU. And it is.
I saw your other PSU question and noticed you were confused about Amperage and Wattage (Amps x Volts = Watts)
Check out the sticky topic The "power supply FAQ" in the Power Supplies, PC Cases & Case Mods. They also rank order the PSUs in the link @ PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's and Recommended Sub-$150, high-efficiency PSU's links. It should help you in the cost vs quality comparison.


Yeah, I felt like the PSU FAQ was more of a novel of the history of power supplies than a 'How to pick a power supply for your new build' guide. So, I just skimmed over it and did some keyword searches but didn't fully understand what I found. I'll have another look.

RAID 0 - Well, I have about a month of planning time still before I order these parts. If I can find substantial benefit to having RAID 0 in the type of games I play, I'd still want to go with RAID 0.

OEM - I do remember being able to transfer my XP Pro to another machine, until I ordered parts to fix a machine that was originally running it; I then transferred it back to the original machine. The main thing that I really hated and really do not want to have to put up with is calling MS every time I reinstall. It never accepted phone input, it always had to redirect me to someone who I couldn't understand speaking and I'm sure they couldn't understand me either.
July 18, 2007 9:18:39 PM

EV700 said:
[emphasis added]
RAID 0 - Well, I have about a month of planning time still before I order these parts. If I can find substantial benefit to having RAID 0 in the type of games I play, I'd still want to go with RAID 0.

OEM - I do remember being able to transfer my XP Pro to another machine, until I ordered parts to fix a machine that was originally running it; I then transferred it back to the original machine. The main thing that I really hated and really do not want to have to put up with is calling MS every time I reinstall. It never accepted phone input, it always had to redirect me to someone who I couldn't understand speaking and I'm sure they couldn't understand me either.


You probably won't find substantial benefit with raid-0, just like you don't get substantial benefit going from an E6600 to an E6700. The benefit is incremental in either case. Of course, I may just be arguing semantics here, for which I appologize. 8-)

You only need to call MS if your hardware changes significantly between re-installs, and I suspect you would be phoning MS regardless of whether you use OEM or retail if your hardware is changing frequently. I have installed my XP-PRO OEM on 3 completely different builds* (i.e. different mobos, CPUs and RAM), excluding incremental upgrades (audio, hdds, removable storage) and have only had to call MS once.

* - disclaimer for microsoft. I've only ever had the OS on one machine at a time and have only changed systems as parts die or get upgraded.
July 18, 2007 9:42:24 PM

Raid 0 does not provide substantial improvement in overall system performance except for some environments that are highly dependent on repeated disk access. Such as the multitasking business environment or the multiuser server environment. Thats just another way of saying it doesnt do squat for games.
From an older article but still accurate:

from: http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101&p=11

OEM The ability to migrate an OEM OS to a new system does not alter the fact that it violates the OEM license. If you trust MS to not screw around with you TOO much OEM OSs are a safe bet.

PSU No one has yet suggest a PSU that isnt a quality part. If you want to better understand the specs and requirements you'll want to do the research yourself.

Power Protection As several have mentioned the APC Surge Protector is worth looking into. You could also look into the next level of protection - UPS or uninterruptible power supply (AKA battery backup). I use an earlier model of APC similar to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101002
July 18, 2007 10:16:11 PM

The point of having a UPS is to prevent the hard drives from powering down incorrectly right?

How do you figure what VA and Watts you need?

Also, I've heard of people using the UPS for the system then plugging the UPS into a surge protector. How does this help?

Also, I feel there may be something wrong with the outlets in my house. I have replaced the PSU in my current system due to degradation; it may have just been old though, considering it was like 6 years old. This PSU has shown signs already though of degradation.

I believe it was the +12V that was off on my last PSU, it was like 11.30V when I replaced it.
Currently this PSU is 11.80-11.67V fluctuations.
July 18, 2007 11:01:24 PM

WR2 said:
OEM The ability to migrate an OEM OS to a new system does not alter the fact that it violates the OEM license. If you trust MS to not screw around with you TOO much OEM OSs are a safe bet.

Yikes! My blissful ignorance has been smashed!
After a little research, it appears that my usage of my OEM Win-XP violated the EULA as soon as I upgraded my motherboard. The OEM license is bound to a single "NEW" system, and by microsoft's standards, a new system that's had parts upgraded is not considered a different "new system" until the motherboard is replaced (with the exception of replacing a defective mobo with a new one).

While I love learning, I hate when my learnings cost me money! :( 
July 18, 2007 11:25:49 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking about just buying the retail that comes with a 32-bit DVD and a 64-bit DVD. I am really sick having to call MS every time I reinstall. The 'Internet authentication thingy' stopped working after like 3 reinstalls.
July 18, 2007 11:30:46 PM

If your AC power is suspect, or if it fails occasionally, then consider a UPS (battery backup device). It also acts as a power conditioning device and a surge protector. I have a APC XS1500 with an additional battery pack. As I type, the APC powerChute monitoring program says I am using 305 out of 865 watts, and that I have 95 minutes of battery time. Truth be told, this is overkill. If I have a power failure, I will have more things to be concerned about than running my PC. The real value of the UPS is to ride through momentary spikes without causing your PC to fail abruptly. It is very comforting to have this while doing a BIOS flash because a power failure in the middle will cause some motherboards to be unuseable. I think you need only enough time on battery to save things, and power down gracefully. I highly recommend at least a minimal UPS.
July 18, 2007 11:35:26 PM

If I am not mistaken, only vista ultimate will come with both 32 and 64 bit dvd's. Home premium will include a 32 bit dvd, and you can order the 64 bit version directly from microsoft for a $10 processing fee. For OEM, you need to specify 32 or 64 bit up front.
July 19, 2007 12:39:19 AM

Surge Protector->UPS->PC. As far as I know people do this to protect the more expensive UPS. Im some case a big surge will cause the surge protector or UPS to "give up its life" to protect your system. The UPS is almost always has a higher quality surge protection factor than a stand alone surge protector.

A quality UPS provides battery backup to let your system power down normally in case of a power outage and it also protects against voltage surge/spike/sags, frequency differences and provides some power conditioning. Most good UPS have software and a control cable to let the UPS auto-shutdown the system after a short time (you pick the length of time) such as 3 minutes if the power doesnt return or stablize. In my case I leave my PC running while Im not around.
A lot of people will tell you to just add up the full (MAX) VA/Wattage requirements of your system to size your UPS. Unless your "critical" application is gaming sizing a UPS for the more typical average power requirements (100-200 Watts) works fine. My UPS runs my system under battery for 12 minutes unless I'm gaming when it runs 5 min.

It's not unusual to have power issues either through the power company distribution system or your own residence (major appliances, such as refrigerators, etc.). The usual home or office UPS only kicks in when power degrades or surges. A more expensive always on UPS (continuous UPS) is available for extreme power problems or critical power requirements such as medical equipment and mission critical data center servers. There are also voltage regulators and power conditioners to take care of specific problems.

A modern PSU (ATX2 design standard) does have some over/under voltage protection built in. And the voltage readings provided by the "health monitoring" software function of motherboards is notoriously inaccurate. 11.30V would have concerned me. A reading of 11.8-11.6V would not greatly disturb me.
July 19, 2007 2:59:41 AM

The only real issue that remains is my case and graphics card combo.

Antec P182
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81820
(at NewEgg)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025

It is stated in the customer comments there that a frontal VGA cooling fan cannot be installed when using the eVGA 8800 and this case.

eVGA Card at NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072

Customers state on the eVGA NewEgg page here that the card barely, emphasizing barely greatly, fits into the case. The card is said to be 11 inches long.

I plan on ordering a 120mm fan for the optional frontal fan of course, but I wonder if that VGA fan might be needed.

Since some people say the card runs like a space heater and is really big, I'm thinking about finding a different card; one that I could install the VGA fan with.
It looks like they're all huge! >.<
July 19, 2007 4:38:28 AM

The P182 is a fine case. I have used the predecessor(P180) and liked it. Unless you needed more than 4 hard drives, you would normally remove the upper drive holder. This leaves room for a 8800GTX and a front fan for the upper chamber. All 8800GTX cards will be the same length if they use the standard cooler. This is, I think 10.5 inches, or about 1.5 inches longer than the GTS version. There are many reviews out there, read them to get a good idea of what the case is about. You could also download the manual and dimensions from the Antec site.
July 19, 2007 5:36:34 AM

Actually, I looked for that.. Couldn't find any real dimensions, besides the over all case dimensions; not even in the manual.

I'll just take that upper drive holding bay out I guess... hope it's enough air flow though.
!