Which is better, WoW or EQ2?

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.


--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
86 answers Last reply
More about which better
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

    >I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday

    Door. Ass. Bye.

    --
    Dark Tyger

    Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
    http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

    Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
    http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    news:Xns964CDCED2620Edsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

    >
    > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
    > gaming world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday,
    > unless they fix controllers in the area, and need something fun to
    > play.
    >
    >
    >

    Can I have your stuff?


    Arena is not CoH......

    Get friends, do teams, make friends, run missions.....

    City of Villians (which is not yet even in beta) is PvP.


    And to all those people that are begging and screaming for PvP......get
    counciling.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    J Anlee <janlee@ameritech.net> wrote in
    news:Xns964CE9A836FF7janleeameritechne@207.115.63.158:

    > David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    > news:Xns964CDCED2620Edsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
    >
    >>
    >> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
    >> gaming world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday,
    >> unless they fix controllers in the arena, and need something fun to
    >> play.
    > Can I have your stuff?

    I'll think about it.


    > Arena is not CoH......
    >
    > Get friends, do teams, make friends, run missions.....
    >
    > City of Villians (which is not yet even in beta) is PvP.

    I do. But at level 50, it's Hammi raids or Arena. I just can't believe
    how something this simple, could be messed up this badly. (I'm a /SR
    scrapper, in Himmi raids, I get killed about once every 10 minutes, in
    the arena, it's 5 times in that time span.


    BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
    Can't figure out why anyone would do this?


    Also, I'm not talking about the elude nurf, as I have the reaction speed
    of a sick turtle, so hated the run boost, so always used it as a "OH
    NO!!!" power, not perma, even thought I could have.


    > And to all those people that are begging and screaming for PvP......get
    > counciling.

    I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
    balanced???


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Shenanigunner wrote:
    > I don't reread Tolkien.

    Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
    characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
    and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.

    Different tastes and all that.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    news:Xns964D20F29C5B3dsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

    > I do. But at level 50, it's Hammi raids or Arena. I just can't
    > believe how something this simple, could be messed up this badly.
    > (I'm a /SR scrapper, in Himmi raids, I get killed about once every 10
    > minutes, in the arena, it's 5 times in that time span.
    >
    >
    > BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc
    > bonus. Can't figure out why anyone would do this?


    I have 2 lvl 50. A defender and a scrapper.

    I am now working a defender as a blaster (taking all of the secondaries,
    few primaries)

    I go to Shadow Shard, run the TF out there.

    Exemp down, and do the Bastion or whatever he is now called.

    I am experimenting within the game.

    And I am making toons just to see if they get changed to
    'GenericHeroXXXX' ;)
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Thu, 05 May 2005 03:14:20 -0500, David Simpson
    <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

    >
    >BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
    >Can't figure out why anyone would do this?

    No, they are not.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

    > unless they fix
    >controllers in the area


    What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
    >> PvP......get counciling.

    > I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
    > balanced???

    PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
    Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
    powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
    within each alt.

    ((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.

    Just for the first ten power choices:

    !531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.

    Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> looked up from reading the
    entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    >David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
    >>> PvP......get counciling.
    >
    >> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
    >> balanced???
    >
    >PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
    >Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
    >powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
    >within each alt.
    >
    >((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.
    >
    >Just for the first ten power choices:
    >
    >!531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.
    >
    >Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.

    Good point - which just raises the whole question of WHY the hell
    they're trying to pvp balance powers designed for pve.

    If you're going to do pvp you design the powersets to be balanced from
    the start you don't try to retrofit.

    In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid, and
    it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints for
    the devs to deal with.
    At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

    Then again, it's already a large source according to the forums - since
    they spent so much time tying to get pvp working that they have managed
    to release issue4 with huge amounts of bugs that DIDN'T exist on test.

    IE the body sliders don't save - you get charged the influence, but you
    get nothing, in another case the person altered costume slot 1 at high
    expense, then made minor changes to costume 2 - mostly just the body
    sliders - at which point it saved and also overwrote costume 1.

    I also see that since the superspeed and superjump changes were last
    minute additions (probably due to them being used for kiting in the
    Arena since they've been "fine" in pve all this time) that they have
    once again changed powers without changing the associated help messages
    - SS has no mention at all of the accuracy debuff.

    It's the issue2 bugfest all over again.

    Xocyll
    --
    I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
    a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
    Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
    FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
    news:4pkk71lc124h3vjsbj1m4fsfhqa936q50n@4ax.com...
    | Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> looked up from reading the
    | entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    | say:
    |
    | >David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    | >>> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
    | >>> PvP......get counciling.
    | >
    | >> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
    | >> balanced???
    | >
    | >PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
    | >Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
    | >powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
    | >within each alt.
    | >
    | >((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.
    | >
    | >Just for the first ten power choices:
    | >
    | >!531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.
    | >
    | >Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.
    |
    | Good point - which just raises the whole question of WHY the hell
    | they're trying to pvp balance powers designed for pve.
    |
    | If you're going to do pvp you design the powersets to be balanced from
    | the start you don't try to retrofit.
    |
    | In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid, and
    | it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints for
    | the devs to deal with.
    | At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

    Well, if I were making the Arena, I would've tossed in obstacle courses,
    flag captures, boxed 3D mazes, etc... sort of toss in party games wherein
    the various power sets can be useful aside from the huge brawls. For
    example, blasters might be required to roll giant spheres at a screened off
    zone using control, timing, and accuracy skills over simple brute aim &
    forget power blasts.

    I'd have made a slight alteration on the targeting so that lag and
    animation times are ignored only for shooting galleries (no auto-lock on
    target inside the shooting galleries, but if an object is unblocked at the
    time the power is fired, then it will count as a hit no matter how slow the
    animation is using an invisible tube of grids intersecting physical objects
    in the zone ). For example there is an animated wall sliding back and forth
    blocking a target intermittently. The blaster fires while the target is
    open, but the animation and sound effects lag and the sliding wall then
    blocks the target when the animation actually fires, but since the invisible
    POV line tube of invisible grids recorded a hit as the power icon was
    clicked, the target will be recorded as being instantly hit even though
    connection lag & animation speed even if the moving blocking wall is
    currently blocking the target.

    The big brawls are nice, but without distractions and random stuff being
    tossed in the mix merely a war of numbers and tactics.

    I imagine that in "City of Villains" there will be "Deathtrap Rooms"
    added by the player-villains in missions where most pop-out guns and
    exploding devices are destructable, but a few huge guns will be untargetable
    and undestroyable (deactivated by switches codes or keys gained earlier by
    defeating a random lacky in the mission). There would be a variety of spots
    in the "Villain Lairs" where perma-caltrops would be on the floor to disable
    Jumping and Superspeed, but allow fliers to move unhindered. Inside also
    spots where Superspeed is allowed, but fliers hindered. Power deactivation
    zones would be in play and spots where Heroes can only tiptoe over ledges of
    spiked deathtraps. Spots where teleportation is randomized or disabled and
    spots where using certain powers would backfire and cause harm to the
    Heroes.


    Arenas should be like Mario Party or Counterstrike or tricky-crazy games
    like "Timebomb Tag" (a Hot-Potato game where one player is set to go boom,
    but can force their "sticky bomb" onto another player under a time-limit
    which resets and decreases as the bomb is passed on --- start=30 seconds,
    transfer=25 seconds, transfer=20 seconds, etc... the one who hands it off
    slowest loses a life). Naturally in games of "Chase me" there would be
    stuff inside to prevent fliers from simply hovering away and caltrops spread
    randomly around to prevent easy Superspeed evasion.

    Random one-shot powerups could also be tossed into play either randomly
    dropped or in key locations or off the spots where a fellow player has been
    defeated. Of course, these concepts would have to be adapted to the
    power-play styles of "City of Heroes".

    I can imagine areas (non-shooting galleries) where a blaster might be
    required to light up blocks in deep holes in the wall (unhittable by melee)
    in a certain pattern to open a door to move onward to the next area while
    immobilization spots on the floor fire off keeping the blaster looking at
    his feet and the walls meanwhile the competition in the other room is also
    trying to do the same task quicker to open the door to the "WIN BUTTON". Or
    perhaps shooting at targetable numbers randomly spread on the wall to finish
    off a series of basic math equations noting that multiply & divide are done
    first in simple equations and addition & subtraction last ( ( 5 x 6 + 3 ) /
    11) = TARGET) (TARGET = 3). Or ( ( 3 + 5 x 6 ) / 11 = TARGET) (TARGET = 3).
    Moving upwards to algebra and trig functions.

    Naturally "City of Heroes" would have to tune any such games for
    organized cooperative play and potentially educational purposes without
    being a heavy-hand on the learning over the fun aspects.


    | Then again, it's already a large source according to the forums - since
    | they spent so much time tying to get pvp working that they have managed
    | to release issue4 with huge amounts of bugs that DIDN'T exist on test.
    |
    | IE the body sliders don't save - you get charged the influence, but you
    | get nothing, in another case the person altered costume slot 1 at high
    | expense, then made minor changes to costume 2 - mostly just the body
    | sliders - at which point it saved and also overwrote costume 1.
    |
    | I also see that since the superspeed and superjump changes were last
    | minute additions (probably due to them being used for kiting in the
    | Arena since they've been "fine" in pve all this time) that they have
    | once again changed powers without changing the associated help messages
    | - SS has no mention at all of the accuracy debuff.
    |
    | It's the issue2 bugfest all over again.
    |
    | Xocyll
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:

    > On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    ><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >
    >> unless they fix
    >>controllers in the area
    >
    >
    > What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?

    They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
    effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
    it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > David Simpson wrote:
    >> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
    gaming
    >> world better???
    >
    > The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was,
    and
    > probably that will be for some years yet.
    >
    > EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming
    computer.
    > I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see
    for
    > myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is
    available for
    > the middle class.

    The system requirements for EQ2 aren't really that expensive these days.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
    news:Xns964D634B3EB21nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

    >
    > ((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + (9 * 4) = 486 powers to balance.
    >
    >> Just for the first ten power choices:

    Actually, I have this in an Excel sheet.

    Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations

    Adding in having/not having APP on these combinations can get you upward of
    5000 powerset combinations.

    Then, if you count in Temp Powers from missions that have a life expantancy
    and not a use timer, this can go up further.

    Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :O
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    >
    > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
    > world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
    > controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.
    >
    I played them both and am still playing WoW. I played CoH but got borred
    fairly quickly (about 3 mo. into release, yes I know new stuff is out and I
    may try it again at some point). EQ2 felt more like a job when crafting and
    I just did not care for the way the game played (very little help to people
    outside groups etc).
    WoW is just fun, pretty much like CoH was at the begining.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "Jeff Lindholm" <jeff@lindholm.org> wrote in message
    news:%wsee.1770$6E.1505@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
    | >
    | > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
    gaming
    | > world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
    | > controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.
    | >
    | I played them both and am still playing WoW. I played CoH but got borred
    | fairly quickly (about 3 mo. into release, yes I know new stuff is out and
    I
    | may try it again at some point). EQ2 felt more like a job when crafting
    and
    | I just did not care for the way the game played (very little help to
    people
    | outside groups etc).
    | WoW is just fun, pretty much like CoH was at the begining.

    I'm still a tad distanced on crafting skills when they cease to be a fun
    thing and a chore in an imaginary universe.

    COH just needs to add in a bit more "Dollhouse Factor" where the players
    can furnish their own apartments, shelf trophies, take imaginary jobs as
    civilians (but that requires more of a SIM coding to keep it all interesting
    and challenging), but whether these mini-quests should yield punishments or
    rewards is still a puzzler. I figure "City of Villains" will handle this as
    a "Corruption Factor" where Heroes working undercover investigating criminal
    organizations (as well as other Player-Villains) can be turned to evil or
    forced into evil against their wills. Players could end up being held
    hostage in civilian-gear with their Supergroups needed to come to the
    rescue, but given the "Death Respawn Hospital" option, there would have to
    be punishments to prevent just suiciding or powering up and spoiling the
    whole "Hostage Role". Meanwhile other low-level Villain-Players will be
    doing the villain game unknowing that one of their hostages could be
    undermining their efforts or calling in help or figuring out a way to get to
    a Changing Room to switch to Hero Mode and really unleash mighty heck upon
    their schemes.

    I figure "City of Heroes" is a fun, non-burdening, role-play.

    I suspect and hope "City of Villains" would be more of a detailed quest
    function where undercover Heroes have to work unpowered and Player-Villains
    try to rise up in the various underworld factions with quests and management
    missions to become an Arch-Villain in their own right. Not to mention that
    PvP should have some aspect of "Corruption Factor" where bribed Heroes are
    likely to turn to aid the forces of evil if the reward is good enough along
    with a "Purity Factor" where merciful Player-Villains have the potential to
    convert into Heroes in their own manner into the forces of justice.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "J Anlee" <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    news:Xns964D56346946Fjanleeameritechnet@207.115.63.158...

    >
    > I am experimenting within the game.


    I couldn't play the game any other way.

    I see someone materialize a pool table and send it flying at someone. I
    think, "I want to do that!" and build a character. I have no less than two
    characters of each type (except Kheldian because I don't have a level 50),
    probably more blaster and defender than anything because I think most like a
    blaster. My sig does not include all the lowbies I have created and
    periodically pull out and have fun with. I have at least one character on
    every server.

    I love exploring different power sets, even honing my ability to design a
    costume (My main's costume is pretty boring -- STARSCAPE PATTERN! DO YOU
    HEAR ME DEVS?!? STARSCAPE!!!).

    For me, "beating the game" was never where the fun was at.

    But if spoils are being divvied up, I'm game for some. :)


    The body-alterting tools give me something new to play with. Most of my
    girls could use some changes to better fit their conceptions. Impact is a
    "tough chick" who needs a harder, less "playmate" body (especially at the
    hips), Girl at the Bar was always a petite little thing and could use a
    boob-reduction, while Rolling Thunder is getting a bit more inflated. Her
    armored costume makes her look completely flat and I'd like a little more
    for her.

    Of the guys, I may put Steel Night's armor up on the blocks and see if I can
    make him even more mostrous than he already is. The rest are fine. None of
    them needs the body proportions of Mr. Incredible.


    --
    John Trauger,
    Vorlonagent


    "Methane martini.
    Shaken, not stirred."

    chat: @vorlonagent

    Vorlonagent (M), level 25 Blaster (Electric/Energy), Guardian
    NightfalI (M), Level 17 Defender (Dark/Dark), Pinnacle
    RolIing Thunder (F), Level 18 Defender (Storm/Electric), Infinity
    Steel Night (M), Level 17 Tanker (Invulnerable/Super-Strength), Virtue
    MC-2 (F), Level 16 Blaster (Force/Fire), Protector
    lmpact (F), Level 16 Blaster (Gun/Energy), Virtue
    Girl at the Bar (F), Level 12 Controller (Mind/Empathy), Triumph
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    J Anlee <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote:
    >> ((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + (9 * 4) = 486 powers to balance.

    > Actually, I have this in an Excel sheet.
    >
    > Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations

    Huh. What did I miss?

    Are you counting the 3 inherent powers? And my calculations don't take
    into account the fixed choices in the first few levels, which reduce the
    actual number of combinations a bit.

    > Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :O

    Yep. A teeter-totter full of whiny 4yos complaining that they didn't get
    as long a turn as the others. :)

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
    > In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid,
    > and it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints
    > for the devs to deal with.
    > At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

    As long as the CoV villains make a stop and destroy the CoH Arenas, that
    will be fine. I'll pay extra to come in and watch.

    I was balanced (heh) on the whole thing, but bottom line, I've decided I
    really don't like paying to play on a beta-testing site for another game. I
    hope it goes away completely in a future Issue.

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@nonyx.spamnet> wrote:

    > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
    > world better???

    I played CoH from a week after release until WoW shipped last November,
    and I've been playing WoW exclusively ever since. Still have my lvl 49
    CoH defender and a few others and I do miss Paragon City at times as CoH
    is such a nice change from the bog standard elf-infested fantasy genre.

    CoH is probably the perfect starter MMOG, since its lack of loot and
    any (serious) form of griefing makes it a very pleasant experience.

    WoW is a much bigger and more involved game (with a lot more people
    playing it). The vast variety of things you can do is much greater
    than CoH. It's also a game that Blizzard spent five years developing
    and they did a very good job of designing it. They've done a good
    job of eliminating pretty much all of the griefing problems that the
    EQ games and other have had.

    Leveling in WoW is pretty fast; much more so than in EQ2 or other games
    I'm told. We've had lots of people arrive at WoW from EQ2. Just about
    everyone seems to like WoW, and our guild has a relatively large number
    of female players and couples who play together, suggesting that its
    demographic goes a bit beyond the traditional online gamer.

    Another option at the moment is Guild Wars, which has no monthly
    fee (though they're going to try to sell you optional expansions every
    few months). It came out last week and looks quite nice, though it
    does not have the massive development investment that WoW has and
    continues to get (1.5M players at $15/month pays a few salaries).

    G.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
    news:Xns964D73298DA28nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

    >> Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations
    >
    > Huh. What did I miss?
    >
    > Are you counting the 3 inherent powers? And my calculations don't take
    > into account the fixed choices in the first few levels, which reduce
    the
    > actual number of combinations a bit.
    >
    >> Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :O
    >

    673 actually.....read the line number instead of subtracting the header
    line:

    Blaster Assault Rifle Devices
    Blaster Assault Rifle Electricity Manipulation
    Blaster Assault Rifle Energy Manipulation
    Blaster Assault Rifle Fire Manipulation
    Blaster Assault Rifle Ice Manipulation
    Blaster Electrical Blast Devices
    Blaster Electrical Blast Electricity Manipulation
    Blaster Electrical Blast Energy Manipulation
    Blaster Electrical Blast Fire Manipulation
    Blaster Electrical Blast Ice Manipulation
    Blaster Energy Blast Devices
    Blaster Energy Blast Electricity Manipulation
    Blaster Energy Blast Energy Manipulation
    Blaster Energy Blast Fire Manipulation
    Blaster Energy Blast Ice Manipulation
    Blaster Fire Blast Devices
    Blaster Fire Blast Electricity Manipulation
    Blaster Fire Blast Energy Manipulation
    Blaster Fire Blast Fire Manipulation
    Blaster Fire Blast Ice Manipulation
    Blaster Ice Blast Devices
    Blaster Ice Blast Electricity Manipulation
    Blaster Ice Blast Energy Manipulation
    Blaster Ice Blast Fire Manipulation
    Blaster Ice Blast Ice Manipulation
    Controller Earth Control Empathy
    Controller Earth Control Force Field
    Controller Earth Control Kinetics
    Controller Earth Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Earth Control Storm Summoning
    Controller Fire Control Empathy
    Controller Fire Control Force Field
    Controller Fire Control Kinetics
    Controller Fire Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Fire Control Storm Summoning
    Controller Gravity Control Empathy
    Controller Gravity Control Force Field
    Controller Gravity Control Kinetics
    Controller Gravity Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Gravity Control Storm Summoning
    Controller Ice Control Empathy
    Controller Ice Control Force Field
    Controller Ice Control Kinetics
    Controller Ice Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Ice Control Storm Summoning
    Controller Illusion Control Empathy
    Controller Illusion Control Force Field
    Controller Illusion Control Kinetics
    Controller Illusion Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Illusion Control Storm Summoning
    Controller Mind Control Empathy
    Controller Mind Control Force Field
    Controller Mind Control Kinetics
    Controller Mind Control Radiation Emission
    Controller Mind Control Storm Summoning
    Defender Dark Miasma Dark Blast
    Defender Dark Miasma Electrical Blast
    Defender Dark Miasma Energy Blast
    Defender Dark Miasma Psychic Blast
    Defender Dark Miasma Radiation Blast
    Defender Empathy Dark Blast
    Defender Empathy Electrical Blast
    Defender Empathy Energy Blast
    Defender Empathy Psychic Blast
    Defender Empathy Radiation Blast
    Defender Force Field Dark Blast
    Defender Force Field Electrical Blast
    Defender Force Field Energy Blast
    Defender Force Field Psychic Blast
    Defender Force Field Radiation Blast
    Defender Kinetics Dark Blast
    Defender Kinetics Electrical Blast
    Defender Kinetics Energy Blast
    Defender Kinetics Psychic Blast
    Defender Kinetics Radiation Blast
    Defender Radiation Emission Dark Blast
    Defender Radiation Emission Electrical Blast
    Defender Radiation Emission Energy Blast
    Defender Radiation Emission Psychic Blast
    Defender Radiation Emission Radiation Blast
    Defender Storm Summoning Dark Blast
    Defender Storm Summoning Electrical Blast
    Defender Storm Summoning Energy Blast
    Defender Storm Summoning Psychic Blast
    Defender Storm Summoning Radiation Blast
    Scrapper Broadsword Dark Armor
    Scrapper Broadsword Invulnerability
    Scrapper Broadsword Regeneration
    Scrapper Broadsword Super Reflexes
    Scrapper Claws Dark Armor
    Scrapper Claws Invulnerability
    Scrapper Claws Regeneration
    Scrapper Claws Super Reflexes
    Scrapper Dark Melee Dark Armor
    Scrapper Dark Melee Invulnerability
    Scrapper Dark Melee Regeneration
    Scrapper Dark Melee Super Reflexes
    Scrapper Katana Dark Armor
    Scrapper Katana Invulnerability
    Scrapper Katana Regeneration
    Scrapper Katana Super Reflexes
    Scrapper Martial Arts Dark Armor
    Scrapper Martial Arts Invulnerability
    Scrapper Martial Arts Regeneration
    Scrapper Martial Arts Super Reflexes
    Scrapper Spines Dark Armor
    Scrapper Spines Invulnerability
    Scrapper Spines Regeneration
    Scrapper Spines Super Reflexes
    Tanker Fiery Aura Battleaxe
    Tanker Fiery Aura Energy Melee
    Tanker Fiery Aura Fiery Melee
    Tanker Fiery Aura Ice Melee
    Tanker Fiery Aura Stone Melee
    Tanker Fiery Aura Super Strength
    Tanker Ice Armor Battleaxe
    Tanker Ice Armor Energy Melee
    Tanker Ice Armor Fiery Melee
    Tanker Ice Armor Ice Melee
    Tanker Ice Armor Stone Melee
    Tanker Ice Armor Super Strength
    Tanker Invulnerability Battleaxe
    Tanker Invulnerability Energy Melee
    Tanker Invulnerability Fiery Melee
    Tanker Invulnerability Ice Melee
    Tanker Invulnerability Stone Melee
    Tanker Invulnerability Super Strength
    Tanker Stone Armor Battleaxe
    Tanker Stone Armor Energy Melee
    Tanker Stone Armor Fiery Melee
    Tanker Stone Armor Ice Melee
    Tanker Stone Armor Stone Melee
    Tanker Stone Armor Super Strength
    Peacebringer Luminous Blast Luminous Aura
    Warshade Umbral Blast Umbral Aura
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
    news:Xns964D73298DA28nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

    > Huh. What did I miss?

    You know what? Even with Excel, it is confusing.

    Just suffice to say there are more possible powerset combinations that are
    currently in use :)


    There are not enough slots on the different servers to have all of them.


    And add in the number of different Power Pool combinations......


    Eeek
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    J Anlee <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote:
    >> Huh. What did I miss?

    > You know what? Even with Excel, it is confusing.

    You know what? Having never played a Kheldian and having printed references
    that predate them, I left those powers out entirely. :)

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    gavin@allegro.com (Gavin Scott) wrote:
    > ...as CoH is such a nice change from the bog standard elf-infested
    fantasy genre.

    That difference being the only reason I gave CoH a try, despite my general
    interest in MMOGs since they appeared. I don't do elfy-welfy. At all. I
    don't do RenFairs. I don't do SCA. I don't reread Tolkien. The word "mage"
    can make me close a game, book or web site.

    (I don't do Civil War reenactments, either, to name another overly
    idealized, cliched and extremely annoying obsession. And while I've played
    super-warrior of the future stuff enough, none of the "mech" MMOGs appeal.)

    The here, now, and hyper-realistic (if slightly cartoonish) milieu of CoH
    suits me perfectly.

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "Scorcho" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Shenanigunner wrote:
    >> I don't reread Tolkien.

    > Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
    > characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
    > and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.
    >
    > Different tastes and all that.

    Yup. I'm in an extreme minority in the sf/f'ish crowd I've been around
    most of my life. My best friend in high school and college was obsessed -
    waited in line to buy the Silmarillion and such, always had one of the
    books with him, etc. My wife is a big fan, re-reading the set at least
    once a year, and the Jackson series is always one of her first choices
    when we watch a movie. (I love the movies, but I absolutely can't sit
    there for four hours straight to watch... so the extended editions are
    perfect, breaking naturally into two-hour segments.)

    I've read all the way through the first part of ROTK at least three
    times, and that last 200 pages is sheer inertia each time. I'm no
    stranger to complexity and depth in my reading, and I really *want* to
    like it more than I do... but there you go. It just numbs me out and
    leaves me cold. And that stuns people who know me, every time it comes
    up.

    --
    -= Victory Server =-
    -= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
    -= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
    -= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
    -= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
    -= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
    -= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
    -= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet>
    wrote:

    > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
    > world better???

    The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was, and
    probably that will be for some years yet.

    EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming computer.
    I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see for
    myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is available for
    the middle class.

    WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
    game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
    spending half an hour or more getting a team together.

    I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
    non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
    your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
    so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
    so good luck.

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no> wrote:
    > I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
    > non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
    > your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
    > so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
    > so good luck.

    Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
    death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run). On
    a "normal" (what people incorrectly call PvE) server you can level up
    to 60 without ever engaging in PvP if you don't want to, but it's
    another whole dimension to the game you can investigate if the PvE
    stuff gets boring.

    You can also "duel" another player which is a "to the not quite death"
    one on one battle. These are fun to pass the time waiting for people
    to show up for an instance or something.

    Where I complain about WoW (coming from CoH) is in the grouping support.
    A group in WoW is limited to 5 players unlike CoH's 8, and all content
    is statically balanced unlike CoH's dynamic content that adapts to the
    number of players in the instance. These two things combine to make it
    much harder to get groups than it is in CoH. Because the content is
    balanced around 5-person groups, you need a full group much more than
    you do in CoH. Because you're limited to 5 people, the class mix is
    more important than it is in CoH. The world is bigger and travel takes
    longer, so people are less likely to respond to a call for group
    members, and it takes a surprisingly long time to get everyone to the
    instance and ready to go.

    These flaws are by no means fatal, but it does make you appreciate the
    design of CoH.

    G.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "Magnus Itland" <itlandm@online.no> wrote in message
    news:opsqbokvnqb52ai9@news.online.no...
    | On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet>
    | wrote:
    |
    | > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
    gaming
    | > world better???
    |
    | The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was, and
    | probably that will be for some years yet.
    |
    | EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming computer.
    | I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see for
    | myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is available for
    | the middle class.
    |
    | WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
    | game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
    | spending half an hour or more getting a team together.
    |
    | I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
    | non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
    | your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
    | so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
    | so good luck.
    |
    | --
    | "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    | good sign." -G

    Gah!
    Viral PvP.

    That is a scary concept.
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
    <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

    >Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
    >news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
    >
    >> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    >><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>
    >>> unless they fix
    >>>controllers in the area
    >>
    >>
    >> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >
    >They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
    >effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
    >it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.

    EVERYONE can turn toggles off. Hell, BRAWL has a chance of turning
    toggles off.

    --
    Dark Tyger

    Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
    http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

    Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
    http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Thu, 05 May 2005 23:56:45 +0200, Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no>
    wrote:

    >WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
    >game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
    >spending half an hour or more getting a team together.
    >
    >I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
    >non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
    >your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
    >so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
    >so good luck.

    Yeah, that's one of my major beefs with Blizzard - They simply can't
    wrap their heads around the idea that there are a lot of people out
    there who simply don't like PvP. This has been blatantly obvious since
    Diablo 1, where they steadfastly refused to put in some option to make
    PvP consensual on BOTH sides.

    --
    Dark Tyger

    Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
    http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

    Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
    http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson wrote:
    > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
    > world better???

    Between those two? My recommendation would be dental surgery without anesthetic.

    > I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
    > controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.

    If you're going to quit over an insignificant portion of the game like the
    Arena, MMOs are not for you.

    --
    Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
    #include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

    "And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
    when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson wrote:

    > BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
    > Can't figure out why anyone would do this?

    Because they didn't. Accuracy in the Arena is 75%, same as it is for players
    everywhere else.

    > I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
    > balanced???

    PvP is impossible to balance in a mud, and anyone who wastes their time
    trying to do it or waiting for it to be done is a fool.

    --
    Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
    #include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

    "And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
    when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Gavin Scott wrote:

    > Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
    > death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).

    PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
    wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.


    > On a "normal" (what people incorrectly call PvE) server you can level up
    > to 60 without ever engaging in PvP if you don't want to,

    While it is logically possible that could happen, the reality is that it is
    extremely unlikely. Everyone in my guild, at the time I left, had been forced
    into PvP at least once.

    > but it's
    > another whole dimension to the game you can investigate if the PvE
    > stuff gets boring.

    Yes, the Dimension Of Asshat Gankers. I portaled out of that dimension when
    I cancelled my UO subscription and I have no intention of returning.

    > These flaws are by no means fatal, but it does make you appreciate the
    > design of CoH.

    WoW's fatal flaws are: a concealed dependence on PvP, a levelling curve that
    is waaaay too short (shorter than CoH's, which is already too short), serious
    class balance issues, lack of content (after the starting areas, everyone ends
    up on the same quest tracks), and finally a raid-based endgame that repeates
    most of EQ's mistakes (but as far as I can tell, it's only there to check off
    a line item for non-PvP endgame content. The real endgame is obviously
    supposed to be PvP.)

    Blizzard did 90% of the job right with WoW. The 10% they did wrong ruins the
    whole thing.

    --
    Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
    #include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

    "And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
    when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    "Scorcho" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> looked up from reading the entrails
    of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    >
    >Shenanigunner wrote:
    >> I don't reread Tolkien.
    >
    >Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
    >characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
    >and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.

    Oh I dunno. I have reread them a few times and every time I get the
    same "buried under an avalanche of small useless details" feeling.

    Ok, Tolkien was the guy who created the genre and he had to do it in a
    "history of a different world" academic style to have a hope of getting
    it published.

    But by god it's a chore to read, compared to so many modern fantasy
    authors.
    I've reread the various books and series by David Eddings, Raymond E.
    Feist, Simon R. Green, David Gemmel, Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis,
    dozens more times, because they are far more enjoyable to read.

    If what the characters have for breakfast has absolutely no bearing on
    anything, then that's a detail that doesn't need to be included.

    >Different tastes and all that.

    Some people actually like reading math textbooks for fun too - i'm not
    one of them - and unfortunately Tolkien reads a lot like a history text.

    If Tolkien were publishing now, editors would probably have made him cut
    out several thousand words of extraneous details.
    The story would probably be better off because of it too.

    Xocyll
    --
    I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
    a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
    Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
    FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
    <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

    >Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
    >news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
    >
    >> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    >><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>
    >>> unless they fix
    >>>controllers in the area
    >>
    >>
    >> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >
    >They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
    >effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
    >it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.


    I have never had a controller detoggle me.
    once
    Ever
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    In article <Xns964D9F30BD1EFdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
    David Simpson wrote:
    > Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
    > news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
    >> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    >><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>> unless they fix
    >>>controllers in the area
    >>
    >> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >
    > They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
    > effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
    > it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.

    Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
    them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
    they're up against.

    A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just
    careless. With my spam-holding, Hami-O slotted mez monster of a Mind
    Controller, I have toggle dropped a melee type with a status defense
    power precisely once in all the times I've fought, and only because I
    caught him in the middle of typing something in chat. (Or so I assume.
    Either that or he went AFK. He just sort of stood there and took it
    until his partner bailed him out.)

    I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting on
    Acrobatics to provide hold protection. In your case, perhaps a better
    description would be "...until they fix blasters in the Arena".

    --
    --- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
    "Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
    scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7n499.fs8.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

    >>>> unless they fix controllers in the area ...
    >>>
    >>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >>
    >> They turn your toggles off ...
    >
    > Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
    > them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
    > they're up against.
    >
    > A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just ...
    >
    > I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting
    > on Acrobatics ...


    Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude on, and
    lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)

    I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight with
    controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with AVs and
    monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi once in a
    while)


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    In article <oi1n71d425acmtgshnihvvtuev728e6hlc@4ax.com>,
    Quantum Tarantino wrote:
    > On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
    ><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
    >>news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
    >>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
    >>><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> unless they fix
    >>>>controllers in the area
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >>
    >>They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
    >>effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
    >>it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.
    >
    > I have never had a controller detoggle me.
    > once
    > Ever

    It can happen.

    Theoretically.

    --
    --- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
    "Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
    scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
    > Gavin Scott wrote:

    >> Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
    >> death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).

    > PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
    > wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.

    There are a very small handful of quests (one that I know of personally)
    that involve killing an enemy NPC that will flag you for PvP (until 5
    minutes of inactivity). This is an entirely optional quest. You will be
    PvP flagged for attacking certain opposing faction NPCs, duh.

    I have played my main for an embarrasing 823 hours now, and have never
    been unexpectedly PvP flagged or forced into a PvP situation, and I have
    never been "ganked" or "griefed".

    I suggest that you do not know what you are talking about :-)

    > serious class balance issues,

    This game has class balance better than any I've played, certainly
    equal to that of CoH's. The mark of a good class balance is that
    *every* class thinks they're totally underpowered relative to most
    of the other classes. You can find every combination of <classA> is
    overpowered relative to <classB> whiner threads on the WoW forums.
    Virutally everyone complains about some aspect of their class, which
    in my opinion is a good sign :-)

    > Blizzard did 90% of the job right with WoW. The 10% they did wrong
    > ruins the whole thing.

    I agree with this statement except for the conclusion that WoW's minimal
    problems have any great effect on the playability of the game.

    WoW is a very large, rich world with many more dimensions to it than
    CoH. It is for the most part an easy game to play, one targeted to a
    much larger audience than more hard-core games like EQ. The leveling
    curve is relatively fast (still took me four months to hit the level
    cap at almost exaclty the same number of hours played as it did in
    CoH) but again the game is targeted at the more casual player who
    wants to progress steadily without investing as much of their life in
    it as some of us do.

    Overall the quality of the game and the thought that went into it are
    very similar to CoH. The designers of both games seem to have very
    compatible ideas as to what an online game should be, and I think the
    vast majority of players of one will enjoy the other.

    G.
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

    > Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
    > on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
    >
    > I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
    > with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
    > AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
    > once in a while)
    >

    Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It used
    to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will only drop one
    of your toggles.

    --
    Marcel
    http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
    news:Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:

    > David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    > news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
    >
    >> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
    >> on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
    >>
    >> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
    >> with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
    >> AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
    >> once in a while)
    >>
    >
    > Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It
    > used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
    > only drop one of your toggles.

    That would be GREAT! I just couldn't believe I (and the tanks I've talked
    to) lost all thier toggles in seconds! Heck, without toggles I've just got
    a few extra HPs.

    Oh, I hope they get PB working too. (maybe it was, I think it took them 5-
    10 seconds to hold me!)


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    In article <Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
    David Simpson wrote:
    > sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7n499.fs8.sw@haven.eyrie.org:
    >>>>> unless they fix controllers in the area ...
    >>>>
    >>>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
    >>>
    >>> They turn your toggles off ...
    >>
    >> Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
    >> them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
    >> they're up against.
    >>
    >> A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just ...
    >>
    >> I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting
    >> on Acrobatics ...
    >
    > Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude on, and
    > lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
    >
    > I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight with
    > controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with AVs and
    > monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi once in a
    > while)

    That seems odd. Practiced Brawler is all but impenetrable at higher
    levels, in my experience.

    I've never gotten past the mez protection of someone with Practiced
    Brawler, even with my abusively Hami-O'd Mind Controller.

    Controllers are certainly a difficult fight given the fact that most
    pack a variety of extremely annoying abilities, but for the most part
    the average controller should be a match for the average scrapper. If
    you're looking for a straight-up fight, though, you should avoid the
    hell out of them.

    It's worth noting that almost everyone has certain power sets they
    cannot possibly ever defeat in the arena. This situation will never
    change, barring total revamp of the entire power system.

    --
    --- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
    "Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
    scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd31.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

    > In article <Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
    > David Simpson wrote:
    >> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB ...
    >
    > That seems odd. Practiced Brawler is all but impenetrable at higher
    > levels, in my experience.

    It was, until this version. Only time I've been held when I haven't
    forgotton PB, was against those things in the portal that all the land is
    broken apart. (forget name) We went on the Shadow Shard (????) TF, and
    the tank (one of the best I know) and I both got held, him with
    unyeilding and unstoppable, and me with PB and elude. I had to tank once
    or twice, as there are a lot of Psi attacks in that TF.


    > I've never gotten past the mez protection of someone with Practiced
    > Brawler, even with my abusively Hami-O'd Mind Controller.

    I sure have been held! Heck, even the mad sciencist (name) that are CoT
    LTs at level 50, al they do is slow me, never hold me!


    > Controllers are certainly a difficult fight given the fact that most
    > pack a variety of extremely annoying abilities, but for the most part
    > the average controller should be a match for the average scrapper. If
    > you're looking for a straight-up fight, though, you should avoid the
    > hell out of them.

    I almost killed one, despite the fact they were holding me away, and
    thier pets! I do have 2 fully slotted ranged attacks, Impale and throw
    spines (240+ and ???). After that fight, they were careful!!!


    > It's worth noting that almost everyone has certain power sets they
    > cannot possibly ever defeat in the arena. This situation will never
    > change, barring total revamp of the entire power system.


    I won't disagree with you on that, but you should have a chance!!! (me
    and a fire tank fought. VERY funny!!! He'd burn, I'd step back, I'd
    hit him with an an attack that normaly does ~240, and it'd do 24 or so.)


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
    Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
    > David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    > news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
    >
    >> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
    >> on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
    >>
    >> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
    >> with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
    >> AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
    >> once in a while)
    >
    > Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It used
    > to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will only drop one
    > of your toggles.

    He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
    toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are no
    plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the status
    is inflicted on you.

    --
    --- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
    "Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
    scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd5v.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

    > In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
    > Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
    >
    > He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
    > toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are
    > no plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the
    > status is inflicted on you.

    No, as far as I know, it took them time to hold me. I understand THAT. As
    a /SR scrapper, you have to remember to hit PB, and I've forgotton once or
    twice against bosses in the old version.


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd5v.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

    > In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
    > Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
    >> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed.
    >> It used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
    >> only drop one of your toggles.
    >
    > He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
    > toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are
    > no plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the
    > status is inflicted on you.

    Ahhh, my bad.


    --
    Marcel
    http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    On Fri, 06 May 2005 17:56:54 -0000, gavin@allegro.com (Gavin Scott)
    wrote:

    >Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
    >> Gavin Scott wrote:
    >
    >>> Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
    >>> death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).
    >
    >> PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
    >> wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.
    >
    >There are a very small handful of quests (one that I know of personally)
    >that involve killing an enemy NPC that will flag you for PvP (until 5
    >minutes of inactivity). This is an entirely optional quest. You will be
    >PvP flagged for attacking certain opposing faction NPCs, duh.

    I know of 2 in Stormwind and 1 in Tirisfal Glade.

    Now, the issue is that PvP is only consensual in theory. Hunting at
    the Crossroads when Alliance comes a-raiding, you have only a few
    options: Grind on wandering mobs, unable to buy or repair supplies
    until they get bored and leave which could take hours, relocate which
    could mean traveling halfway across the world to find another friendly
    zone in the same level range, delude yourself into thinking you're
    doing any good and try to defend against the horde of level 50-60's
    (Crossroads/Barrens is a teen level hunting area) and only end up
    getting repeatedly slaughtered....or log off.

    --
    Dark Tyger

    Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
    http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

    Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
    http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
    news:Xns964E8A6197FAdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

    > Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
    > news:Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:
    >> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed.
    >> It used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
    >> only drop one of your toggles.
    >
    > That would be GREAT! I just couldn't believe I (and the tanks I've
    > talked to) lost all thier toggles in seconds! Heck, without toggles
    > I've just got a few extra HPs.
    >
    > Oh, I hope they get PB working too. (maybe it was, I think it took
    > them 5- 10 seconds to hold me!)

    Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that Stun
    (or sleep) still drop all your toggles.


    --
    Marcel
    http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
  48. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
    news:Xns964E96F42E873mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:

    > Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that
    > Stun (or sleep) still drop all your toggles.

    Fine, except they need to hit me, which they should NOT be able to do
    (unless they have a LOT of acc bonus), and then they should NOT be able to
    do either of those with PB running, even on the off chance they do hit
    me!!!


    --
    ____________________________________________
    / David Simpson \
    | City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
    | dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
    | http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
    \____________________________________________/
  49. Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

    David Simpson wrote:
    > Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
    > news:Xns964E96F42E873mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:
    >
    >> Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that
    >> Stun (or sleep) still drop all your toggles.
    >
    > Fine, except they need to hit me, which they should NOT be able to do
    > (unless they have a LOT of acc bonus)

    Which ALL players do.

    Mobs don't slot for accuracy. Players do. +def isn't much cop in the
    arena.

    --
    John Parkinson
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