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Which is better, WoW or EQ2?

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 1:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.



--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/

More about : wow eq2

Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:58:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
news:Xns964CDCED2620Edsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

>
> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
> gaming world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday,
> unless they fix controllers in the area, and need something fun to
> play.
>
>
>

Can I have your stuff?





Arena is not CoH......

Get friends, do teams, make friends, run missions.....

City of Villians (which is not yet even in beta) is PvP.




And to all those people that are begging and screaming for PvP......get
counciling.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:58:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

J Anlee <janlee@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:Xns964CE9A836FF7janleeameritechne@207.115.63.158:

> David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
> news:Xns964CDCED2620Edsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
>
>>
>> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
>> gaming world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday,
>> unless they fix controllers in the arena, and need something fun to
>> play.
> Can I have your stuff?

I'll think about it.


> Arena is not CoH......
>
> Get friends, do teams, make friends, run missions.....
>
> City of Villians (which is not yet even in beta) is PvP.

I do. But at level 50, it's Hammi raids or Arena. I just can't believe
how something this simple, could be messed up this badly. (I'm a /SR
scrapper, in Himmi raids, I get killed about once every 10 minutes, in
the arena, it's 5 times in that time span.


BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
Can't figure out why anyone would do this?


Also, I'm not talking about the elude nurf, as I have the reaction speed
of a sick turtle, so hated the run boost, so always used it as a "OH
NO!!!" power, not perma, even thought I could have.


> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for PvP......get
> counciling.

I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
balanced???




--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 5:23:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner wrote:
> I don't reread Tolkien.

Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.

Different tastes and all that.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 5:25:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
news:Xns964D20F29C5B3dsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

> I do. But at level 50, it's Hammi raids or Arena. I just can't
> believe how something this simple, could be messed up this badly.
> (I'm a /SR scrapper, in Himmi raids, I get killed about once every 10
> minutes, in the arena, it's 5 times in that time span.
>
>
> BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc
> bonus. Can't figure out why anyone would do this?


I have 2 lvl 50. A defender and a scrapper.

I am now working a defender as a blaster (taking all of the secondaries,
few primaries)

I go to Shadow Shard, run the TF out there.

Exemp down, and do the Bastion or whatever he is now called.

I am experimenting within the game.

And I am making toons just to see if they get changed to
'GenericHeroXXXX' ;) 
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:10:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Thu, 05 May 2005 03:14:20 -0500, David Simpson
<dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

>
>BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
>Can't figure out why anyone would do this?

No, they are not.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:11:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
<dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

> unless they fix
>controllers in the area


What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:38:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
>> PvP......get counciling.

> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
> balanced???

PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
within each alt.

((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.

Just for the first ten power choices:

!531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.

Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:38:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
>>> PvP......get counciling.
>
>> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
>> balanced???
>
>PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
>Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
>powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
>within each alt.
>
>((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.
>
>Just for the first ten power choices:
>
>!531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.
>
>Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.

Good point - which just raises the whole question of WHY the hell
they're trying to pvp balance powers designed for pve.

If you're going to do pvp you design the powersets to be balanced from
the start you don't try to retrofit.

In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid, and
it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints for
the devs to deal with.
At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

Then again, it's already a large source according to the forums - since
they spent so much time tying to get pvp working that they have managed
to release issue4 with huge amounts of bugs that DIDN'T exist on test.

IE the body sliders don't save - you get charged the influence, but you
get nothing, in another case the person altered costume slot 1 at high
expense, then made minor changes to costume 2 - mostly just the body
sliders - at which point it saved and also overwrote costume 1.

I also see that since the superspeed and superjump changes were last
minute additions (probably due to them being used for kiting in the
Arena since they've been "fine" in pve all this time) that they have
once again changed powers without changing the associated help messages
- SS has no mention at all of the accuracy debuff.

It's the issue2 bugfest all over again.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:38:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:4pkk71lc124h3vjsbj1m4fsfhqa936q50n@4ax.com...
| Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> looked up from reading the
| entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
| say:
|
| >David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
| >>> And to all those people that are begging and screaming for
| >>> PvP......get counciling.
| >
| >> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
| >> balanced???
| >
| >PvE game. Five ATs. Five primary powersets each. Nine powers in each set.
| >Five secondary powersets each. Nine powers in each set. Nine pool
| >powersets. Four powers in each. Nearly unlimited combinations of power
| >within each alt.
| >
| >((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + 9^2 = 531 powers to balance.
| >
| >Just for the first ten power choices:
| >
| >!531 - !521 = 1.6*10^27 balancing combinations.
| >
| >Get back to us when you have them all *perfectly* balanced for PvP.
|
| Good point - which just raises the whole question of WHY the hell
| they're trying to pvp balance powers designed for pve.
|
| If you're going to do pvp you design the powersets to be balanced from
| the start you don't try to retrofit.
|
| In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid, and
| it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints for
| the devs to deal with.
| At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

Well, if I were making the Arena, I would've tossed in obstacle courses,
flag captures, boxed 3D mazes, etc... sort of toss in party games wherein
the various power sets can be useful aside from the huge brawls. For
example, blasters might be required to roll giant spheres at a screened off
zone using control, timing, and accuracy skills over simple brute aim &
forget power blasts.

I'd have made a slight alteration on the targeting so that lag and
animation times are ignored only for shooting galleries (no auto-lock on
target inside the shooting galleries, but if an object is unblocked at the
time the power is fired, then it will count as a hit no matter how slow the
animation is using an invisible tube of grids intersecting physical objects
in the zone ). For example there is an animated wall sliding back and forth
blocking a target intermittently. The blaster fires while the target is
open, but the animation and sound effects lag and the sliding wall then
blocks the target when the animation actually fires, but since the invisible
POV line tube of invisible grids recorded a hit as the power icon was
clicked, the target will be recorded as being instantly hit even though
connection lag & animation speed even if the moving blocking wall is
currently blocking the target.

The big brawls are nice, but without distractions and random stuff being
tossed in the mix merely a war of numbers and tactics.

I imagine that in "City of Villains" there will be "Deathtrap Rooms"
added by the player-villains in missions where most pop-out guns and
exploding devices are destructable, but a few huge guns will be untargetable
and undestroyable (deactivated by switches codes or keys gained earlier by
defeating a random lacky in the mission). There would be a variety of spots
in the "Villain Lairs" where perma-caltrops would be on the floor to disable
Jumping and Superspeed, but allow fliers to move unhindered. Inside also
spots where Superspeed is allowed, but fliers hindered. Power deactivation
zones would be in play and spots where Heroes can only tiptoe over ledges of
spiked deathtraps. Spots where teleportation is randomized or disabled and
spots where using certain powers would backfire and cause harm to the
Heroes.


Arenas should be like Mario Party or Counterstrike or tricky-crazy games
like "Timebomb Tag" (a Hot-Potato game where one player is set to go boom,
but can force their "sticky bomb" onto another player under a time-limit
which resets and decreases as the bomb is passed on --- start=30 seconds,
transfer=25 seconds, transfer=20 seconds, etc... the one who hands it off
slowest loses a life). Naturally in games of "Chase me" there would be
stuff inside to prevent fliers from simply hovering away and caltrops spread
randomly around to prevent easy Superspeed evasion.

Random one-shot powerups could also be tossed into play either randomly
dropped or in key locations or off the spots where a fellow player has been
defeated. Of course, these concepts would have to be adapted to the
power-play styles of "City of Heroes".

I can imagine areas (non-shooting galleries) where a blaster might be
required to light up blocks in deep holes in the wall (unhittable by melee)
in a certain pattern to open a door to move onward to the next area while
immobilization spots on the floor fire off keeping the blaster looking at
his feet and the walls meanwhile the competition in the other room is also
trying to do the same task quicker to open the door to the "WIN BUTTON". Or
perhaps shooting at targetable numbers randomly spread on the wall to finish
off a series of basic math equations noting that multiply & divide are done
first in simple equations and addition & subtraction last ( ( 5 x 6 + 3 ) /
11) = TARGET) (TARGET = 3). Or ( ( 3 + 5 x 6 ) / 11 = TARGET) (TARGET = 3).
Moving upwards to algebra and trig functions.

Naturally "City of Heroes" would have to tune any such games for
organized cooperative play and potentially educational purposes without
being a heavy-hand on the learning over the fun aspects.


| Then again, it's already a large source according to the forums - since
| they spent so much time tying to get pvp working that they have managed
| to release issue4 with huge amounts of bugs that DIDN'T exist on test.
|
| IE the body sliders don't save - you get charged the influence, but you
| get nothing, in another case the person altered costume slot 1 at high
| expense, then made minor changes to costume 2 - mostly just the body
| sliders - at which point it saved and also overwrote costume 1.
|
| I also see that since the superspeed and superjump changes were last
| minute additions (probably due to them being used for kiting in the
| Arena since they've been "fine" in pve all this time) that they have
| once again changed powers without changing the associated help messages
| - SS has no mention at all of the accuracy debuff.
|
| It's the issue2 bugfest all over again.
|
| Xocyll
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 7:38:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>
>> unless they fix
>>controllers in the area
>
>
> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?

They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.



--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 8:05:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Magnus Itland wrote:
> David Simpson wrote:
>> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
gaming
>> world better???
>
> The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was,
and
> probably that will be for some years yet.
>
> EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming
computer.
> I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see
for
> myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is
available for
> the middle class.

The system requirements for EQ2 aren't really that expensive these days.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 8:55:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
news:Xns964D634B3EB21nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

>
> ((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + (9 * 4) = 486 powers to balance.
>
>> Just for the first ten power choices:

Actually, I have this in an Excel sheet.

Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations

Adding in having/not having APP on these combinations can get you upward of
5000 powerset combinations.

Then, if you count in Temp Powers from missions that have a life expantancy
and not a use timer, this can go up further.

Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :o 
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 9:15:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

>
> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
> world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
> controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.
>
I played them both and am still playing WoW. I played CoH but got borred
fairly quickly (about 3 mo. into release, yes I know new stuff is out and I
may try it again at some point). EQ2 felt more like a job when crafting and
I just did not care for the way the game played (very little help to people
outside groups etc).
WoW is just fun, pretty much like CoH was at the begining.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 9:15:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Jeff Lindholm" <jeff@lindholm.org> wrote in message
news:%wsee.1770$6E.1505@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
| >
| > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
gaming
| > world better??? I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
| > controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.
| >
| I played them both and am still playing WoW. I played CoH but got borred
| fairly quickly (about 3 mo. into release, yes I know new stuff is out and
I
| may try it again at some point). EQ2 felt more like a job when crafting
and
| I just did not care for the way the game played (very little help to
people
| outside groups etc).
| WoW is just fun, pretty much like CoH was at the begining.

I'm still a tad distanced on crafting skills when they cease to be a fun
thing and a chore in an imaginary universe.

COH just needs to add in a bit more "Dollhouse Factor" where the players
can furnish their own apartments, shelf trophies, take imaginary jobs as
civilians (but that requires more of a SIM coding to keep it all interesting
and challenging), but whether these mini-quests should yield punishments or
rewards is still a puzzler. I figure "City of Villains" will handle this as
a "Corruption Factor" where Heroes working undercover investigating criminal
organizations (as well as other Player-Villains) can be turned to evil or
forced into evil against their wills. Players could end up being held
hostage in civilian-gear with their Supergroups needed to come to the
rescue, but given the "Death Respawn Hospital" option, there would have to
be punishments to prevent just suiciding or powering up and spoiling the
whole "Hostage Role". Meanwhile other low-level Villain-Players will be
doing the villain game unknowing that one of their hostages could be
undermining their efforts or calling in help or figuring out a way to get to
a Changing Room to switch to Hero Mode and really unleash mighty heck upon
their schemes.

I figure "City of Heroes" is a fun, non-burdening, role-play.

I suspect and hope "City of Villains" would be more of a detailed quest
function where undercover Heroes have to work unpowered and Player-Villains
try to rise up in the various underworld factions with quests and management
missions to become an Arch-Villain in their own right. Not to mention that
PvP should have some aspect of "Corruption Factor" where bribed Heroes are
likely to turn to aid the forces of evil if the reward is good enough along
with a "Purity Factor" where merciful Player-Villains have the potential to
convert into Heroes in their own manner into the forces of justice.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 10:20:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"J Anlee" <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:Xns964D56346946Fjanleeameritechnet@207.115.63.158...

>
> I am experimenting within the game.


I couldn't play the game any other way.

I see someone materialize a pool table and send it flying at someone. I
think, "I want to do that!" and build a character. I have no less than two
characters of each type (except Kheldian because I don't have a level 50),
probably more blaster and defender than anything because I think most like a
blaster. My sig does not include all the lowbies I have created and
periodically pull out and have fun with. I have at least one character on
every server.

I love exploring different power sets, even honing my ability to design a
costume (My main's costume is pretty boring -- STARSCAPE PATTERN! DO YOU
HEAR ME DEVS?!? STARSCAPE!!!).

For me, "beating the game" was never where the fun was at.

But if spoils are being divvied up, I'm game for some. :) 


The body-alterting tools give me something new to play with. Most of my
girls could use some changes to better fit their conceptions. Impact is a
"tough chick" who needs a harder, less "playmate" body (especially at the
hips), Girl at the Bar was always a petite little thing and could use a
boob-reduction, while Rolling Thunder is getting a bit more inflated. Her
armored costume makes her look completely flat and I'd like a little more
for her.

Of the guys, I may put Steel Night's armor up on the blocks and see if I can
make him even more mostrous than he already is. The rest are fine. None of
them needs the body proportions of Mr. Incredible.


--
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent


"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."

chat: @vorlonagent

Vorlonagent (M), level 25 Blaster (Electric/Energy), Guardian
NightfalI (M), Level 17 Defender (Dark/Dark), Pinnacle
RolIing Thunder (F), Level 18 Defender (Storm/Electric), Infinity
Steel Night (M), Level 17 Tanker (Invulnerable/Super-Strength), Virtue
MC-2 (F), Level 16 Blaster (Force/Fire), Protector
lmpact (F), Level 16 Blaster (Gun/Energy), Virtue
Girl at the Bar (F), Level 12 Controller (Mind/Empathy), Triumph
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 10:21:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

J Anlee <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> ((5 * (5 * 9)) * 2) + (9 * 4) = 486 powers to balance.

> Actually, I have this in an Excel sheet.
>
> Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations

Huh. What did I miss?

Are you counting the 3 inherent powers? And my calculations don't take
into account the fixed choices in the first few levels, which reduce the
actual number of combinations a bit.

> Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :o 

Yep. A teeter-totter full of whiny 4yos complaining that they didn't get
as long a turn as the others. :) 

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 10:23:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
> In other words, I think the whole Arena thing is remarkably stupid,
> and it's going to be a never ending source of problems and complaints
> for the devs to deal with.
> At least until COV comes out and most of the pvp types go there.

As long as the CoV villains make a stop and destroy the CoH Arenas, that
will be fine. I'll pay extra to come in and watch.

I was balanced (heh) on the whole thing, but bottom line, I've decided I
really don't like paying to play on a beta-testing site for another game. I
hope it goes away completely in a future Issue.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 10:25:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@nonyx.spamnet> wrote:

> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
> world better???

I played CoH from a week after release until WoW shipped last November,
and I've been playing WoW exclusively ever since. Still have my lvl 49
CoH defender and a few others and I do miss Paragon City at times as CoH
is such a nice change from the bog standard elf-infested fantasy genre.

CoH is probably the perfect starter MMOG, since its lack of loot and
any (serious) form of griefing makes it a very pleasant experience.

WoW is a much bigger and more involved game (with a lot more people
playing it). The vast variety of things you can do is much greater
than CoH. It's also a game that Blizzard spent five years developing
and they did a very good job of designing it. They've done a good
job of eliminating pretty much all of the griefing problems that the
EQ games and other have had.

Leveling in WoW is pretty fast; much more so than in EQ2 or other games
I'm told. We've had lots of people arrive at WoW from EQ2. Just about
everyone seems to like WoW, and our guild has a relatively large number
of female players and couples who play together, suggesting that its
demographic goes a bit beyond the traditional online gamer.

Another option at the moment is Guild Wars, which has no monthly
fee (though they're going to try to sell you optional expansions every
few months). It came out last week and looks quite nice, though it
does not have the massive development investment that WoW has and
continues to get (1.5M players at $15/month pays a few salaries).

G.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 11:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
news:Xns964D73298DA28nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

>> Not counting APPs -> 674 power set combinations
>
> Huh. What did I miss?
>
> Are you counting the 3 inherent powers? And my calculations don't take
> into account the fixed choices in the first few levels, which reduce
the
> actual number of combinations a bit.
>
>> Safe to say, if you want balance in PvP, get on a teeter-tawter. :o 
>

673 actually.....read the line number instead of subtracting the header
line:

Blaster Assault Rifle Devices
Blaster Assault Rifle Electricity Manipulation
Blaster Assault Rifle Energy Manipulation
Blaster Assault Rifle Fire Manipulation
Blaster Assault Rifle Ice Manipulation
Blaster Electrical Blast Devices
Blaster Electrical Blast Electricity Manipulation
Blaster Electrical Blast Energy Manipulation
Blaster Electrical Blast Fire Manipulation
Blaster Electrical Blast Ice Manipulation
Blaster Energy Blast Devices
Blaster Energy Blast Electricity Manipulation
Blaster Energy Blast Energy Manipulation
Blaster Energy Blast Fire Manipulation
Blaster Energy Blast Ice Manipulation
Blaster Fire Blast Devices
Blaster Fire Blast Electricity Manipulation
Blaster Fire Blast Energy Manipulation
Blaster Fire Blast Fire Manipulation
Blaster Fire Blast Ice Manipulation
Blaster Ice Blast Devices
Blaster Ice Blast Electricity Manipulation
Blaster Ice Blast Energy Manipulation
Blaster Ice Blast Fire Manipulation
Blaster Ice Blast Ice Manipulation
Controller Earth Control Empathy
Controller Earth Control Force Field
Controller Earth Control Kinetics
Controller Earth Control Radiation Emission
Controller Earth Control Storm Summoning
Controller Fire Control Empathy
Controller Fire Control Force Field
Controller Fire Control Kinetics
Controller Fire Control Radiation Emission
Controller Fire Control Storm Summoning
Controller Gravity Control Empathy
Controller Gravity Control Force Field
Controller Gravity Control Kinetics
Controller Gravity Control Radiation Emission
Controller Gravity Control Storm Summoning
Controller Ice Control Empathy
Controller Ice Control Force Field
Controller Ice Control Kinetics
Controller Ice Control Radiation Emission
Controller Ice Control Storm Summoning
Controller Illusion Control Empathy
Controller Illusion Control Force Field
Controller Illusion Control Kinetics
Controller Illusion Control Radiation Emission
Controller Illusion Control Storm Summoning
Controller Mind Control Empathy
Controller Mind Control Force Field
Controller Mind Control Kinetics
Controller Mind Control Radiation Emission
Controller Mind Control Storm Summoning
Defender Dark Miasma Dark Blast
Defender Dark Miasma Electrical Blast
Defender Dark Miasma Energy Blast
Defender Dark Miasma Psychic Blast
Defender Dark Miasma Radiation Blast
Defender Empathy Dark Blast
Defender Empathy Electrical Blast
Defender Empathy Energy Blast
Defender Empathy Psychic Blast
Defender Empathy Radiation Blast
Defender Force Field Dark Blast
Defender Force Field Electrical Blast
Defender Force Field Energy Blast
Defender Force Field Psychic Blast
Defender Force Field Radiation Blast
Defender Kinetics Dark Blast
Defender Kinetics Electrical Blast
Defender Kinetics Energy Blast
Defender Kinetics Psychic Blast
Defender Kinetics Radiation Blast
Defender Radiation Emission Dark Blast
Defender Radiation Emission Electrical Blast
Defender Radiation Emission Energy Blast
Defender Radiation Emission Psychic Blast
Defender Radiation Emission Radiation Blast
Defender Storm Summoning Dark Blast
Defender Storm Summoning Electrical Blast
Defender Storm Summoning Energy Blast
Defender Storm Summoning Psychic Blast
Defender Storm Summoning Radiation Blast
Scrapper Broadsword Dark Armor
Scrapper Broadsword Invulnerability
Scrapper Broadsword Regeneration
Scrapper Broadsword Super Reflexes
Scrapper Claws Dark Armor
Scrapper Claws Invulnerability
Scrapper Claws Regeneration
Scrapper Claws Super Reflexes
Scrapper Dark Melee Dark Armor
Scrapper Dark Melee Invulnerability
Scrapper Dark Melee Regeneration
Scrapper Dark Melee Super Reflexes
Scrapper Katana Dark Armor
Scrapper Katana Invulnerability
Scrapper Katana Regeneration
Scrapper Katana Super Reflexes
Scrapper Martial Arts Dark Armor
Scrapper Martial Arts Invulnerability
Scrapper Martial Arts Regeneration
Scrapper Martial Arts Super Reflexes
Scrapper Spines Dark Armor
Scrapper Spines Invulnerability
Scrapper Spines Regeneration
Scrapper Spines Super Reflexes
Tanker Fiery Aura Battleaxe
Tanker Fiery Aura Energy Melee
Tanker Fiery Aura Fiery Melee
Tanker Fiery Aura Ice Melee
Tanker Fiery Aura Stone Melee
Tanker Fiery Aura Super Strength
Tanker Ice Armor Battleaxe
Tanker Ice Armor Energy Melee
Tanker Ice Armor Fiery Melee
Tanker Ice Armor Ice Melee
Tanker Ice Armor Stone Melee
Tanker Ice Armor Super Strength
Tanker Invulnerability Battleaxe
Tanker Invulnerability Energy Melee
Tanker Invulnerability Fiery Melee
Tanker Invulnerability Ice Melee
Tanker Invulnerability Stone Melee
Tanker Invulnerability Super Strength
Tanker Stone Armor Battleaxe
Tanker Stone Armor Energy Melee
Tanker Stone Armor Fiery Melee
Tanker Stone Armor Ice Melee
Tanker Stone Armor Stone Melee
Tanker Stone Armor Super Strength
Peacebringer Luminous Blast Luminous Aura
Warshade Umbral Blast Umbral Aura
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 5, 2005 11:13:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote in
news:Xns964D73298DA28nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44:

> Huh. What did I miss?

You know what? Even with Excel, it is confusing.

Just suffice to say there are more possible powerset combinations that are
currently in use :) 


There are not enough slots on the different servers to have all of them.


And add in the number of different Power Pool combinations......


Eeek
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 12:07:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

J Anlee <JanLee@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> Huh. What did I miss?

> You know what? Even with Excel, it is confusing.

You know what? Having never played a Kheldian and having printed references
that predate them, I left those powers out entirely. :) 

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 12:16:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

gavin@allegro.com (Gavin Scott) wrote:
> ...as CoH is such a nice change from the bog standard elf-infested
fantasy genre.

That difference being the only reason I gave CoH a try, despite my general
interest in MMOGs since they appeared. I don't do elfy-welfy. At all. I
don't do RenFairs. I don't do SCA. I don't reread Tolkien. The word "mage"
can make me close a game, book or web site.

(I don't do Civil War reenactments, either, to name another overly
idealized, cliched and extremely annoying obsession. And while I've played
super-warrior of the future stuff enough, none of the "mech" MMOGs appeal.)

The here, now, and hyper-realistic (if slightly cartoonish) milieu of CoH
suits me perfectly.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 12:44:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Scorcho" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Shenanigunner wrote:
>> I don't reread Tolkien.

> Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
> characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
> and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.
>
> Different tastes and all that.

Yup. I'm in an extreme minority in the sf/f'ish crowd I've been around
most of my life. My best friend in high school and college was obsessed -
waited in line to buy the Silmarillion and such, always had one of the
books with him, etc. My wife is a big fan, re-reading the set at least
once a year, and the Jackson series is always one of her first choices
when we watch a movie. (I love the movies, but I absolutely can't sit
there for four hours straight to watch... so the extended editions are
perfect, breaking naturally into two-hour segments.)

I've read all the way through the first part of ROTK at least three
times, and that last 200 pages is sheer inertia each time. I'm no
stranger to complexity and depth in my reading, and I really *want* to
like it more than I do... but there you go. It just numbs me out and
leaves me cold. And that stuns people who know me, every time it comes
up.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 29 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= RorShok: Level 17 Natural Scrapper, MA/SR, M =-
-= R A Heinlein: Level 10 Science Controller, Ill/Rad, M =-
-= Always looking for reliable teammates - look me up! =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 3:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet>
wrote:

> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
> world better???

The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was, and
probably that will be for some years yet.

EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming computer.
I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see for
myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is available for
the middle class.

WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
spending half an hour or more getting a team together.

I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
so good luck.

--
"When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
good sign." -G
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 3:56:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no> wrote:
> I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
> non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
> your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
> so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
> so good luck.

Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run). On
a "normal" (what people incorrectly call PvE) server you can level up
to 60 without ever engaging in PvP if you don't want to, but it's
another whole dimension to the game you can investigate if the PvE
stuff gets boring.

You can also "duel" another player which is a "to the not quite death"
one on one battle. These are fun to pass the time waiting for people
to show up for an instance or something.

Where I complain about WoW (coming from CoH) is in the grouping support.
A group in WoW is limited to 5 players unlike CoH's 8, and all content
is statically balanced unlike CoH's dynamic content that adapts to the
number of players in the instance. These two things combine to make it
much harder to get groups than it is in CoH. Because the content is
balanced around 5-person groups, you need a full group much more than
you do in CoH. Because you're limited to 5 people, the class mix is
more important than it is in CoH. The world is bigger and travel takes
longer, so people are less likely to respond to a call for group
members, and it takes a surprisingly long time to get everyone to the
instance and ready to go.

These flaws are by no means fatal, but it does make you appreciate the
design of CoH.

G.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 3:56:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Magnus Itland" <itlandm@online.no> wrote in message
news:o psqbokvnqb52ai9@news.online.no...
| On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet>
| wrote:
|
| > So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the
gaming
| > world better???
|
| The consensus is that WoW is the best rathunter game that ever was, and
| probably that will be for some years yet.
|
| EQ2 is good for showing people that you have the ultimate gaming computer.
| I don't hear much good about the gameplay, but I won't be able to see for
| myself for a couple years yet, when that kind of hardware is available for
| the middle class.
|
| WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
| game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
| spending half an hour or more getting a team together.
|
| I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
| non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
| your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
| so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
| so good luck.
|
| --
| "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
| good sign." -G

Gah!
Viral PvP.

That is a scary concept.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 4:27:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
<dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

>Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
>news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
>><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>
>>> unless they fix
>>>controllers in the area
>>
>>
>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>
>They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
>effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
>it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.

EVERYONE can turn toggles off. Hell, BRAWL has a chance of turning
toggles off.

--
Dark Tyger

Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 11:58:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Thu, 05 May 2005 23:56:45 +0200, Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no>
wrote:

>WoW is definitely the more similar to CoH of the bunch. It's a rathunter
>game where you can actually play for half an hour or less, instead of
>spending half an hour or more getting a team together.
>
>I didn't like it, though. It is really all about PvP. Even if you're on a
>non-PvP server, PvP is still a big deal. Even fighting certain NPCs sets
>your PvP flag. Then, anyone who heals you gets their PvP flag set too, and
>so on for a while. But it doesn't seem like you dislike PvP the way I do,
>so good luck.

Yeah, that's one of my major beefs with Blizzard - They simply can't
wrap their heads around the idea that there are a lot of people out
there who simply don't like PvP. This has been blatantly obvious since
Diablo 1, where they steadfastly refused to put in some option to make
PvP consensual on BOTH sides.

--
Dark Tyger

Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 4:36:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson wrote:
> So, which is better, WoW or EQ2, or is there something else in the gaming
> world better???

Between those two? My recommendation would be dental surgery without anesthetic.

> I'll be dropping my CoH this Sunday, unless they fix
> controllers in the area, and need something fun to play.

If you're going to quit over an insignificant portion of the game like the
Arena, MMOs are not for you.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 4:38:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson wrote:

> BTW, I found out why. In the Arena, every one is given a +25% acc bonus.
> Can't figure out why anyone would do this?

Because they didn't. Accuracy in the Arena is 75%, same as it is for players
everywhere else.

> I agree, but when they did it, shouldn't have been something close to
> balanced???

PvP is impossible to balance in a mud, and anyone who wastes their time
trying to do it or waiting for it to be done is a fool.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 4:59:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Gavin Scott wrote:

> Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
> death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).

PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.


> On a "normal" (what people incorrectly call PvE) server you can level up
> to 60 without ever engaging in PvP if you don't want to,

While it is logically possible that could happen, the reality is that it is
extremely unlikely. Everyone in my guild, at the time I left, had been forced
into PvP at least once.

> but it's
> another whole dimension to the game you can investigate if the PvE
> stuff gets boring.

Yes, the Dimension Of Asshat Gankers. I portaled out of that dimension when
I cancelled my UO subscription and I have no intention of returning.

> These flaws are by no means fatal, but it does make you appreciate the
> design of CoH.

WoW's fatal flaws are: a concealed dependence on PvP, a levelling curve that
is waaaay too short (shorter than CoH's, which is already too short), serious
class balance issues, lack of content (after the starting areas, everyone ends
up on the same quest tracks), and finally a raid-based endgame that repeates
most of EQ's mistakes (but as far as I can tell, it's only there to check off
a line item for non-PvP endgame content. The real endgame is obviously
supposed to be PvP.)

Blizzard did 90% of the job right with WoW. The 10% they did wrong ruins the
whole thing.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 6:35:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Scorcho" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>
>Shenanigunner wrote:
>> I don't reread Tolkien.
>
>Wow. Too bad for you. Since you like heroes, I can't think of any
>characters in any genre as heroic as Frodo and Sam. To go through life
>and never experience that again -- I couldn't imagine it.

Oh I dunno. I have reread them a few times and every time I get the
same "buried under an avalanche of small useless details" feeling.

Ok, Tolkien was the guy who created the genre and he had to do it in a
"history of a different world" academic style to have a hope of getting
it published.

But by god it's a chore to read, compared to so many modern fantasy
authors.
I've reread the various books and series by David Eddings, Raymond E.
Feist, Simon R. Green, David Gemmel, Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis,
dozens more times, because they are far more enjoyable to read.

If what the characters have for breakfast has absolutely no bearing on
anything, then that's a detail that doesn't need to be included.

>Different tastes and all that.

Some people actually like reading math textbooks for fun too - i'm not
one of them - and unfortunately Tolkien reads a lot like a history text.

If Tolkien were publishing now, editors would probably have made him cut
out several thousand words of extraneous details.
The story would probably be better off because of it too.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 6:59:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
<dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:

>Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
>news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
>><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>
>>> unless they fix
>>>controllers in the area
>>
>>
>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>
>They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
>effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
>it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.


I have never had a controller detoggle me.
once
Ever
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 7:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns964D9F30BD1EFdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
David Simpson wrote:
> Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
> news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
>><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>> unless they fix
>>>controllers in the area
>>
>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>
> They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
> effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
> it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.

Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
they're up against.

A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just
careless. With my spam-holding, Hami-O slotted mez monster of a Mind
Controller, I have toggle dropped a melee type with a status defense
power precisely once in all the times I've fought, and only because I
caught him in the middle of typing something in chat. (Or so I assume.
Either that or he went AFK. He just sort of stood there and took it
until his partner bailed him out.)

I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting on
Acrobatics to provide hold protection. In your case, perhaps a better
description would be "...until they fix blasters in the Arena".

--
--- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
"Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 7:45:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7n499.fs8.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

>>>> unless they fix controllers in the area ...
>>>
>>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>>
>> They turn your toggles off ...
>
> Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
> them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
> they're up against.
>
> A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just ...
>
> I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting
> on Acrobatics ...


Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude on, and
lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)

I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight with
controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with AVs and
monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi once in a
while)



--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 7:46:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <oi1n71d425acmtgshnihvvtuev728e6hlc@4ax.com>,
Quantum Tarantino wrote:
> On Thu, 05 May 2005 15:38:56 -0500, David Simpson
><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>Quantum Tarantino <QuantumTarantino@Gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:2sdk715bvf6e8q0mrmg6v5qg0uik4csa06@4ax.com:
>>> On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:43:04 -0500, David Simpson
>>><dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> unless they fix
>>>>controllers in the area
>>>
>>>
>>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>>
>>They turn your toggles of, even though you have powers that stop thier
>>effects. I don't mind them turning of a few, when they hit me, but the way
>>it's set now, all toggle powers are worthless against a controller.
>
> I have never had a controller detoggle me.
> once
> Ever

It can happen.

Theoretically.

--
--- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
"Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 9:56:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
> Gavin Scott wrote:

>> Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
>> death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).

> PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
> wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.

There are a very small handful of quests (one that I know of personally)
that involve killing an enemy NPC that will flag you for PvP (until 5
minutes of inactivity). This is an entirely optional quest. You will be
PvP flagged for attacking certain opposing faction NPCs, duh.

I have played my main for an embarrasing 823 hours now, and have never
been unexpectedly PvP flagged or forced into a PvP situation, and I have
never been "ganked" or "griefed".

I suggest that you do not know what you are talking about :-)

> serious class balance issues,

This game has class balance better than any I've played, certainly
equal to that of CoH's. The mark of a good class balance is that
*every* class thinks they're totally underpowered relative to most
of the other classes. You can find every combination of <classA> is
overpowered relative to <classB> whiner threads on the WoW forums.
Virutally everyone complains about some aspect of their class, which
in my opinion is a good sign :-)

> Blizzard did 90% of the job right with WoW. The 10% they did wrong
> ruins the whole thing.

I agree with this statement except for the conclusion that WoW's minimal
problems have any great effect on the playability of the game.

WoW is a very large, rich world with many more dimensions to it than
CoH. It is for the most part an easy game to play, one targeted to a
much larger audience than more hard-core games like EQ. The leveling
curve is relatively fast (still took me four months to hit the level
cap at almost exaclty the same number of hours played as it did in
CoH) but again the game is targeted at the more casual player who
wants to progress steadily without investing as much of their life in
it as some of us do.

Overall the quality of the game and the thought that went into it are
very similar to CoH. The designers of both games seem to have very
compatible ideas as to what an online game should be, and I think the
vast majority of players of one will enjoy the other.

G.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:06:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
> on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
>
> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
> with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
> AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
> once in a while)
>

Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It used
to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will only drop one
of your toggles.

--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:06:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
news:Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:

> David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
> news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
>
>> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
>> on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
>>
>> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
>> with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
>> AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
>> once in a while)
>>
>
> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It
> used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
> only drop one of your toggles.

That would be GREAT! I just couldn't believe I (and the tanks I've talked
to) lost all thier toggles in seconds! Heck, without toggles I've just got
a few extra HPs.

Oh, I hope they get PB working too. (maybe it was, I think it took them 5-
10 seconds to hold me!)



--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
David Simpson wrote:
> sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7n499.fs8.sw@haven.eyrie.org:
>>>>> unless they fix controllers in the area ...
>>>>
>>>> What exactly is broken about controllers in the arena?
>>>
>>> They turn your toggles off ...
>>
>> Blasters and defenders have ongoing issues with Mez, but then, both of
>> them are pretty squishy in the Arena, as a rule, regardless of what
>> they're up against.
>>
>> A scrapper or tank who gets mez'd by a single controller is just ...
>>
>> I'm guessing from this post that you're a blaster who's been counting
>> on Acrobatics ...
>
> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude on, and
> lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
>
> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight with
> controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with AVs and
> monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi once in a
> while)

That seems odd. Practiced Brawler is all but impenetrable at higher
levels, in my experience.

I've never gotten past the mez protection of someone with Practiced
Brawler, even with my abusively Hami-O'd Mind Controller.

Controllers are certainly a difficult fight given the fact that most
pack a variety of extremely annoying abilities, but for the most part
the average controller should be a match for the average scrapper. If
you're looking for a straight-up fight, though, you should avoid the
hell out of them.

It's worth noting that almost everyone has certain power sets they
cannot possibly ever defeat in the arena. This situation will never
change, barring total revamp of the entire power system.

--
--- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
"Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:16:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd31.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

> In article <Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131>,
> David Simpson wrote:
>> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB ...
>
> That seems odd. Practiced Brawler is all but impenetrable at higher
> levels, in my experience.

It was, until this version. Only time I've been held when I haven't
forgotton PB, was against those things in the portal that all the land is
broken apart. (forget name) We went on the Shadow Shard (????) TF, and
the tank (one of the best I know) and I both got held, him with
unyeilding and unstoppable, and me with PB and elude. I had to tank once
or twice, as there are a lot of Psi attacks in that TF.


> I've never gotten past the mez protection of someone with Practiced
> Brawler, even with my abusively Hami-O'd Mind Controller.

I sure have been held! Heck, even the mad sciencist (name) that are CoT
LTs at level 50, al they do is slow me, never hold me!


> Controllers are certainly a difficult fight given the fact that most
> pack a variety of extremely annoying abilities, but for the most part
> the average controller should be a match for the average scrapper. If
> you're looking for a straight-up fight, though, you should avoid the
> hell out of them.

I almost killed one, despite the fact they were holding me away, and
thier pets! I do have 2 fully slotted ranged attacks, Impale and throw
spines (240+ and ???). After that fight, they were careful!!!


> It's worth noting that almost everyone has certain power sets they
> cannot possibly ever defeat in the arena. This situation will never
> change, barring total revamp of the entire power system.


I won't disagree with you on that, but you should have a chance!!! (me
and a fire tank fought. VERY funny!!! He'd burn, I'd step back, I'd
hit him with an an attack that normaly does ~240, and it'd do 24 or so.)



--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
> news:Xns964E848E5CDFBdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:
>
>> Nope, I'm a /SR scrapper. I have had the passive AoE, PB and elude
>> on, and lost ever single toggle! (active def, FA, tough, CJ, etc!)
>>
>> I've also talked to tanks, and they just say to back out of ANY fight
>> with controllers in them. These are guys that stand toe to toe with
>> AVs and monsters, and never say a word!!!! (maybe complain about Psi
>> once in a while)
>
> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed. It used
> to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will only drop one
> of your toggles.

He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are no
plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the status
is inflicted on you.

--
--- An' thou dost not get caught, do as thou wilt shall be the law ---
"Religion disperses like a fog, kingdoms perish, but the works of
scholars remain for an eternity." - Ulughbek
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd5v.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

> In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
> Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>
> He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
> toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are
> no plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the
> status is inflicted on you.

No, as far as I know, it took them time to hold me. I understand THAT. As
a /SR scrapper, you have to remember to hit PB, and I've forgotton once or
twice against bosses in the old version.


--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:22:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

sw <sw@eyrie.org> wrote in news:slrnd7nd5v.k4a.sw@haven.eyrie.org:

> In article <Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4>,
> Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed.
>> It used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
>> only drop one of your toggles.
>
> He's talking about mez abilities, not powers that were given a
> toggle-drop component for PvP like brawl. To my knowledge, there are
> no plans to make Hold/Sleep/Disorient not drop all toggles when the
> status is inflicted on you.

Ahhh, my bad.


--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:23:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Fri, 06 May 2005 17:56:54 -0000, gavin@allegro.com (Gavin Scott)
wrote:

>Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Gavin Scott wrote:
>
>>> Naah, PvP in WoW is great. It's completely consensual and there's no
>>> death penalty for dying in PvP (apart from a short corpse run).
>
>> PvP in WoW is *not* completely consensual. You can be flagged for it by
>> wandering agro NPCs or by doing certain quests.
>
>There are a very small handful of quests (one that I know of personally)
>that involve killing an enemy NPC that will flag you for PvP (until 5
>minutes of inactivity). This is an entirely optional quest. You will be
>PvP flagged for attacking certain opposing faction NPCs, duh.

I know of 2 in Stormwind and 1 in Tirisfal Glade.

Now, the issue is that PvP is only consensual in theory. Hunting at
the Crossroads when Alliance comes a-raiding, you have only a few
options: Grind on wandering mobs, unable to buy or repair supplies
until they get bored and leave which could take hours, relocate which
could mean traveling halfway across the world to find another friendly
zone in the same level range, delude yourself into thinking you're
doing any good and try to defend against the horde of level 50-60's
(Crossroads/Barrens is a teen level hunting area) and only end up
getting repeatedly slaughtered....or log off.

--
Dark Tyger

Stop the madness! (Marvel Vs Cryptic Studios petition)
http://www.petitiononline.com/marvscoh/petition.html

Hey, everyone else is doing it. Free iPod:
http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15728814
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:50:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson <dsimpson@NOnyx.SPAMnet> wrote in
news:Xns964E8A6197FAdsimpsonnyxnetmememe@216.196.97.131:

> Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
> news:Xns964E8F8B6B459mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:
>> Note that the toggle-dropping has been (or is going to be) changed.
>> It used to drop all toggles. They plan on changing it so that it will
>> only drop one of your toggles.
>
> That would be GREAT! I just couldn't believe I (and the tanks I've
> talked to) lost all thier toggles in seconds! Heck, without toggles
> I've just got a few extra HPs.
>
> Oh, I hope they get PB working too. (maybe it was, I think it took
> them 5- 10 seconds to hold me!)

Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that Stun
(or sleep) still drop all your toggles.


--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 10:50:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
news:Xns964E96F42E873mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:

> Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that
> Stun (or sleep) still drop all your toggles.

Fine, except they need to hit me, which they should NOT be able to do
(unless they have a LOT of acc bonus), and then they should NOT be able to
do either of those with PB running, even on the off chance they do hit
me!!!


--
____________________________________________
/ David Simpson \
| City of Heroes, Basic Stamp, RPGs, War Games |
| dsimpson@NOnyxSPAM.net |
| http://www.nyx.net/~dsimpson |
\____________________________________________/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 6, 2005 11:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

David Simpson wrote:
> Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaudoin@scintrextrace.com> wrote in
> news:Xns964E96F42E873mbeausympaticoca@130.133.1.4:
>
>> Keep in mind I was talking about the use of brawl. AFAIK, powers that
>> Stun (or sleep) still drop all your toggles.
>
> Fine, except they need to hit me, which they should NOT be able to do
> (unless they have a LOT of acc bonus)

Which ALL players do.

Mobs don't slot for accuracy. Players do. +def isn't much cop in the
arena.

--
John Parkinson
!