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Used 8x00 cards market collapsing?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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July 27, 2007 2:34:43 PM

Doing some reading on some gaming forums specifially video cards, I can only conclude that we are really in
transition year (DX10 is not ready,new 65mn dies are not fully ready). Hey lets sell something.The companies are turning out "filler products" and are trying to create a one year tech cycle.
I was offered a evga superclocked 8600GTS for 130$ cdn. The 8800gts 320 was offered for 170$ cdn. In both
cases the owners were moving up to 8800 ultras. I have read numerous instances of 8series cards stumbling
however I have seen an ati x800 xtpe outperform both of them in some 3dmark tests! Having read the recent
posting of the dream G92, Its wonderful that a company can skim the cream of the consumer market and yet
maintain the the hype level to a fevered pitch. (Give those marketing people bonuses ).
I can remember a time when discussion was based on the framerates on current games and not speculations
on upcoming products. I agree that the factories in asia must rumble on but come on how long have the specs been out ? On top of that why should I buy a product that the drivers are half baked and may never be matured
and an archeitecture that only may be flawed . This applies to Nvidia and Ati . Thankfully these new cards
don't use lead in production so therefore make excellent "ecologically smart" Green landfill. This is not a tirade
but a disgust at the corporate structure that believes it can fool most of the gamers, all of the time. I think to settle on the 8600gts since it would last longer in a home theater pc. The 8800gts have some flaws which
are now being questioned.
July 27, 2007 3:05:31 PM

Um did you say that your x800 xtpe beat an 8800GS in 3dmark tests? I'm very doubtful of that.
July 27, 2007 3:07:00 PM

Say what?

The 8800GTS is, right now, the highest-performing card for the money. In either 3DMark05 or 06, it will skunk a Radeon x800... they skunk an x1900XTX, for that matter.

The 8600GT is an abomination of a card, sometimes struggling to provide better performance than the much cheaper 7600GT. Both the 8600GTS and Radeon HD 2600XT aren't worth much of anything at the moment, unless you count their HD video playback capabilities as that much of a "must have" (although almost any dual-core CPU with any 8-series card will be fine dealing with currently existing HD video).

Not really sure where you're getting your ideas from, besides just random conjecture.
Related resources
July 27, 2007 3:12:11 PM

X800 better than an 8800GTS? Maybe if the 8800 was paired with a Pentium3 and the X800 with an X6800. But highly doubtful.
July 27, 2007 5:49:05 PM

You were offered a 8800 GTS 320 for $170 Cdn? You should jump on that deal if you trust the seller.
July 27, 2007 6:27:41 PM

Belles_Toaster said:
Doing some reading on some gaming forums specifially video cards, I can only conclude that we are really in
transition year (DX10 is not ready,new 65mn dies are not fully ready). Hey lets sell something.The companies are turning out "filler products" and are trying to create a one year tech cycle.
I was offered a evga superclocked 8600GTS for 130$ cdn. The 8800gts 320 was offered for 170$ cdn. In both
cases the owners were moving up to 8800 ultras. I have read numerous instances of 8series cards stumbling
however I have seen an ati x800 xtpe outperform both of them in some 3dmark tests! Having read the recent
posting of the dream G92, Its wonderful that a company can skim the cream of the consumer market and yet
maintain the the hype level to a fevered pitch. (Give those marketing people bonuses ).
I can remember a time when discussion was based on the framerates on current games and not speculations
on upcoming products. I agree that the factories in asia must rumble on but come on how long have the specs been out ? On top of that why should I buy a product that the drivers are half baked and may never be matured
and an archeitecture that only may be flawed . This applies to Nvidia and Ati . Thankfully these new cards
don't use lead in production so therefore make excellent "ecologically smart" Green landfill. This is not a tirade
but a disgust at the corporate structure that believes it can fool most of the gamers, all of the time. I think to settle on the 8600gts since it would last longer in a home theater pc. The 8800gts have some flaws which
are now being questioned.
There isn't a single case where the 8800GTS wouldn't outperform an X800XT.
July 27, 2007 6:30:00 PM

*sniff sniff*

What's that smell?

Oh, it's that heaping pile of BS Belles_Toaster just spewed out.
July 27, 2007 10:27:54 PM

Oh come on... maybe they were stolen cards? That or they were faulty cards, that's the only way I can see them going for that cheap.
July 27, 2007 11:56:47 PM

Belles_Toaster said:
I have read numerous instances of 8series cards stumbling
however I have seen an ati x800 xtpe outperform both of them in some 3dmark tests!

Hahahaha, that might be the funniest thing I have read all week. Care to post a link?


Anyway, even if the 8800 series was a filler, it sure is an amazing filler. I have no complaints about my 8800GTX, it blows away any game out right now. I suppose if I actually bought it for DX10 I might be disappointed, but who buys a card now to play games that won't be out for another 6 months? I bought the 8800GTX to rip apart current games, specifically DX9.
July 28, 2007 12:12:46 PM

The 8800gts 320 framerates in the the 3dmarko5 were superior to the ati x800 xtpe except for certain sequences in the return to proxcycon demo. Interesting enough these were only for a few sequences and I ran it several times to
validate it. This was after the heavy gunner had cleared the field to allow regulars to advance in a hurried group.
The 8800gts frames fell to 14-16 whilst the x800 xtpe churned out 20-21. These tests were done four weeks ago,
before newer drivers were rushed in after some third party tests pointed to anemic nvidia performance. I also followed the linky to xbitlabs on the specs for the G92 and explored links to the new pcie 2.0 standard. If one
reads deeply into it it confirms the need for faster cards in DX10 and highlights design flaws in the current offering,
notably in some sacred cows like the 8800gtx ( lost planet's stress test). The new standard involves new chipsets and new cpu's and new video cards which have to be in sync which probably means why there would not be a refresh of the current offering and the lacklustre performance of ati's offering. Again If these sounds like BS it may
be more of attempt to integrate the lack of a good mid-range card , the attempt to raise the cost of newer product and the disappointment with DX10 .
July 28, 2007 12:52:39 PM

There is another way to look at this - at the moment you can pick up a 8800GTS 320 for $280 or a X1950XT for $145 (with MIR) - it's a great time to be a graphics card consumer.
a b U Graphics card
July 28, 2007 2:21:32 PM

Hey, I have an X850XT PE in the closet I'll sell for $329. Blow them 8800gts's right out the water, any takers? ;) 
July 28, 2007 2:26:57 PM

Belles_Toaster said:
Doing some reading on some gaming forums specifially video cards, I can only conclude that we are really in
transition year (DX10 is not ready,new 65mn dies are not fully ready). Hey lets sell something.The companies are turning out "filler products" and are trying to create a one year tech cycle.
I was offered a evga superclocked 8600GTS for 130$ cdn. The 8800gts 320 was offered for 170$ cdn. In both
cases the owners were moving up to 8800 ultras. I have read numerous instances of 8series cards stumbling
however I have seen an ati x800 xtpe outperform both of them in some 3dmark tests! Having read the recent
posting of the dream G92, Its wonderful that a company can skim the cream of the consumer market and yet
maintain the the hype level to a fevered pitch. (Give those marketing people bonuses ).
I can remember a time when discussion was based on the framerates on current games and not speculations
on upcoming products. I agree that the factories in asia must rumble on but come on how long have the specs been out ? On top of that why should I buy a product that the drivers are half baked and may never be matured
and an archeitecture that only may be flawed . This applies to Nvidia and Ati . Thankfully these new cards
don't use lead in production so therefore make excellent "ecologically smart" Green landfill. This is not a tirade
but a disgust at the corporate structure that believes it can fool most of the gamers, all of the time. I think to settle on the 8600gts since it would last longer in a home theater pc. The 8800gts have some flaws which
are now being questioned.


Belles_Toaster said:
The 8800gts 320 framerates in the the 3dmarko5 were superior to the ati x800 xtpe except for certain sequences in the return to proxcycon demo. Interesting enough these were only for a few sequences and I ran it several times to
validate it. This was after the heavy gunner had cleared the field to allow regulars to advance in a hurried group.
The 8800gts frames fell to 14-16 whilst the x800 xtpe churned out 20-21. These tests were done four weeks ago,
before newer drivers were rushed in after some third party tests pointed to anemic nvidia performance. I also followed the linky to xbitlabs on the specs for the G92 and explored links to the new pcie 2.0 standard. If one
reads deeply into it it confirms the need for faster cards in DX10 and highlights design flaws in the current offering,
notably in some sacred cows like the 8800gtx ( lost planet's stress test). The new standard involves new chipsets and new cpu's and new video cards which have to be in sync which probably means why there would not be a refresh of the current offering and the lacklustre performance of ati's offering. Again If these sounds like BS it may
be more of attempt to integrate the lack of a good mid-range card , the attempt to raise the cost of newer product and the disappointment with DX10 .


I can see where this is coming from but still disagree with you. GTX is an overkill for most of the current games unless you are playing on extreemly high resolutions with loads of AA but why you rip on GTS is beyond me. I have X850XT in my computer right now and that is basicly the reason why I haven't played any game since HL2. I tryed Oblivion.. well the game skipped even on the inside scenes so I uninstalled that. I couldn't even load lost planet as it didn't support my version of shaders (2.0 I think). I tryed GRAW and Prey and while I could run them it didn't give me the experience I was looking for, so i desider to wait untill a new rig. Anyway, if you are investing in the upcoming titles like Crysis, UT3, Alan Wake etc. now is not a very good time to buy a top of the line GPU, neither is it a very good idea to invest in a card like X8xx or even X1kxx series as the "lowcost" models usually come with a very loud fan *read reviews and by the count 320 GTS gives you a cheaper $ per FPS preformance. You are right to say that GTX is pretty much a waste at this point but it will run pretty much any game with a high res and 4XAA + 16XAF and that is something you can't say even about the GTSs. GTS beats X800 in every test that matters ( :pt1cable:  unless you are benching it under the full moon on friday the 13h soacked in blood of a freshly slaughtered goat :sarcastic:  )

- I agree with you that GTX is not a very solid investment at this point if you are thinking of upcoming titles.
- I think that GTX is an awesome investment today if you are looking for high res + max AA/AF preformance today.
- I disagree with you completely on GTS.
- For the love of god.. HTPC? You'll be fine with any 80$ passive cooled GPU. Why would you want to stick a GTX inside a PC just to view movies/pictures and listening to music is.. Well the very question is disturbing :pfff: 
July 28, 2007 3:14:27 PM

Belles_Toaster said:
The 8800gts 320 framerates in the the 3dmarko5 were superior to the ati x800 xtpe except for certain sequences in the return to proxcycon demo. Interesting enough these were only for a few sequences and I ran it several times to
validate it. This was after the heavy gunner had cleared the field to allow regulars to advance in a hurried group.
The 8800gts frames fell to 14-16 whilst the x800 xtpe churned out 20-21. These tests were done four weeks ago,
before newer drivers were rushed in after some third party tests pointed to anemic nvidia performance. I also followed the linky to xbitlabs on the specs for the G92 and explored links to the new pcie 2.0 standard. If one
reads deeply into it it confirms the need for faster cards in DX10 and highlights design flaws in the current offering,
notably in some sacred cows like the 8800gtx ( lost planet's stress test). The new standard involves new chipsets and new cpu's and new video cards which have to be in sync which probably means why there would not be a refresh of the current offering and the lacklustre performance of ati's offering. Again If these sounds like BS it may
be more of attempt to integrate the lack of a good mid-range card , the attempt to raise the cost of newer product and the disappointment with DX10 .


Are you freaking kidding me? 3Dmark? That thing proves nothing, it's about as useful as running windows aero as a benchmark. I'd like you to try Lost Planet (despite being a shitty port) on MAX with a X800XT PE and with a 8800GTS, and let me know which gives you a playable experience. I can tell you that I tried my 6800 on Lost planet on Max @ 1280x1024 just for the kicks and the card couldn't even run the game (it gave me the low performance warning), however my GTS is just ripping through it now...

EDIT: And what disappointment of DX10? Have you even played a True DX10 title? I don't think so, because we don't have ANY at the moment...
July 28, 2007 4:05:43 PM

Belles_Toaster said:
I have seen an ati x800 xtpe outperform both of them [8600 and 8800] in some 3dmark tests!


the only way i could think that is possible if the game was highly shader intensive, and the game made the 8 series run at SM 4.0, and the x800 would then revert to 2.0. and even then, i doubt it. and who cares about 3d marks anyway!?
July 28, 2007 7:02:59 PM

3d mark means nothing? Wth?

It means a hell of a lot. Its like the standard benchmark program everywhere.
July 28, 2007 7:46:56 PM

3Dmark is a synthetic benchmark, it does nothing but tell you a score. What REALLY matters is how the card performs in games... I could care less if my 8800GTS scored 10 in 3Dmark...

It might mean a lot to those who waste their time trying to get the best hardware only to have a high 3dmark score and publish it around the web, but while those morons do that, I'm actually using my card for something meaningful like playing my games.
July 28, 2007 8:51:25 PM

3dmark is by NO means an all inclusive measure of performance. I have 2 rigs running one with an x800 class card and a new rig with an 8800gts 640. And the differences running 2142 and eq2 are ASTOUNDING period. the only real measure that should be user considered is the software that will be run on the machine. so if you like to watch 3dmark i guess you are screwed, and I will say that gts slows during some of the sequesnces, but you must understand it is attempting to show significantly more detail in texture and lighting and shading. And i will concede that you could keep playing games that come out on an x800 series card but you will continue to have to turn the eye candy down....in fact the difference in eq2 between x800 and 8800gts caused me to want to play the game again....anyway i dither......good luck
3dmark= :hello: 
July 29, 2007 12:15:09 AM

You also got to remember that 3dMark05 was built on the SHR 2.0 engine not 4.0! like what the 8800GTS packs. so indeed it might be somewhat faster during whatever the hell your watching but try to get an X850XT PE to run 16xQCSAA on 1280x1024, o wait YOU CANT.
!