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Killer NIC , Killer K1 worht the money?

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July 26, 2007 12:38:50 AM

I'm interested in the Killer NIC and the Killer K1 nic's?

Anybody have any thoughts on these. I know some people say they are paper weights, I see some newegg reviews that state the opposite.

I'd like to have the best gaming setup possible and I was wondering if these would be beneficial at all.

More about : killer nic killer worht money

July 26, 2007 1:23:29 AM

carp get a high end nforce chipset and use you open pci slot for a sound card.
July 26, 2007 2:23:42 AM

Yeah KILLER NIC works well IF u have a premium CABLE connection, and a high end gaming pc, it wont work with DSL or Satellite or wireless.
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July 26, 2007 3:20:52 AM

LoL @ that response.

Anyone with a brain care to chime in? I found two other threads which say it sucks so I'm leaning that way. Just wondering if topping off my gaming setup with this NIC would be worth it or beneficial what-so-ever.

July 26, 2007 3:34:38 AM

I don't think you'll get any more performance than what you would get with a router that has port priority.
July 26, 2007 4:10:48 AM

It will not make any noticable differance in gameplay. They are a waste of money.
July 26, 2007 4:31:02 AM

You're better off wasting your money on an AGEIA PhysX card.
July 26, 2007 5:03:02 AM

Heyyou27 said:
You're better off wasting your money on an AGEIA PhysX card.


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
WHS ^^^

Id find it hard to believe a pci nic can have any faster response than onboard, it may reduce cpu overhead tho... by like 0.5%
:sleep: 
July 27, 2007 2:53:50 AM

Yea thanks for the replies. This sounds like a rip off for sure.

I just picked up a nice Hawkings 1gb nic and say good enough.
July 27, 2007 3:24:28 AM

Complete Waste.

Most on-board NICs easily handle 100/Mbs Ethernet connections without an issue while communicating to 100s of computers at the same time while handling Network Server traffic. (Not everyone uses high end NICs or boards in their servers.)

The traffic will also pass from your PC to 10-20 routers over the internet to the Game Server and back across 10-20 routers back to your PC. This is where the delay is happening.

1) Ping your Local Router and Check The Speed.
2) Next Ping the Game Server or a distant Internet Server and check thetime.

In my case I'm showing less than 1ms.
So if I had a really good NIC I guess it would be even further under 1ms.
Which would be less than a 1ms gain.

Don't buy it. Don't consider it.
July 27, 2007 5:43:31 AM

Id buy it just beacuse it looks so dam cool :) 

no really it does look cool. If it incorporated the dual gigabyte ethernet thing like i believe the 680i has...
July 31, 2007 12:55:05 AM

you know reviews were done on this killer nic and it does help with lag and fps to a certain extent, wether its worth the 200-300 dollars is really up to you

imo its really not that moeny should be going into 4gb of ram, a better gfx card or proc, unless you have the best single card, best processor or maximum ram, you realy have no reason spending the money on a killer nic
August 13, 2007 12:50:33 AM

No not worth it at all. Glad to see you didn't buy it.
August 13, 2007 1:40:08 AM

NO WAY i say
August 13, 2007 2:08:50 AM

zenmaster said:
Complete Waste.

Most on-board NICs easily handle 100/Mbs Ethernet connections without an issue while communicating to 100s of computers at the same time while handling Network Server traffic. (Not everyone uses high end NICs or boards in their servers.)

The traffic will also pass from your PC to 10-20 routers over the internet to the Game Server and back across 10-20 routers back to your PC. This is where the delay is happening.

1) Ping your Local Router and Check The Speed.
2) Next Ping the Game Server or a distant Internet Server and check thetime.

In my case I'm showing less than 1ms.
So if I had a really good NIC I guess it would be even further under 1ms.
Which would be less than a 1ms gain.

Don't buy it. Don't consider it.


Zen is totally right here, 100 percent !
August 13, 2007 2:59:09 AM

royalcrown said:
Zen is totally right here, 100 percent !


Well, no, he's not really 100% right, as there are quite a few positive aspects to the Killer NIC.

Let me be clear here, no average user has any need whatsoever to spend the money on one of these BUT:

Zenmaster's hypothetical test was completely beside the point. The Killer NIC bypasses the Windows stack, this is where the latency reduction comes from, not from magically changing the speed of bits coming into and out of your modem.

Second, if your system isn't exactly top-of-the-line, you can get a nice little FPS increase. However, if your system isn't tops, you shouldn't spend hundreds on a freakin' NIC either.

Finally, you can do some pretty interesting things with the Killer. It has a USB port that can accept hard drives, runs linux, and can be programmed to perform any number of tasks. While it's not groundbreaking, it is unique.

Again, no reason why anyone REALLY needs one of these things, but it is rather cool and unique. The cost is just too prohibitive. But, if you have already upgraded every concievable component in your system, have a kiddie pool full of hundred dollar bills that you swim naked in, and are familiar with Linux, go for it!
August 13, 2007 4:10:10 AM

cb62fcni said:
Well, no, he's not really 100% right, as there are quite a few positive aspects to the Killer NIC.

Let me be clear here, no average user has any need whatsoever to spend the money on one of these BUT:

Zenmaster's hypothetical test was completely beside the point. The Killer NIC bypasses the Windows stack, this is where the latency reduction comes from, not from magically changing the speed of bits coming into and out of your modem.

Second, if your system isn't exactly top-of-the-line, you can get a nice little FPS increase. However, if your system isn't tops, you shouldn't spend hundreds on a freakin' NIC either.

Finally, you can do some pretty interesting things with the Killer. It has a USB port that can accept hard drives, runs linux, and can be programmed to perform any number of tasks. While it's not groundbreaking, it is unique.

Again, no reason why anyone REALLY needs one of these things, but it is rather cool and unique. The cost is just too prohibitive. But, if you have already upgraded every concievable component in your system, have a kiddie pool full of hundred dollar bills that you swim naked in, and are familiar with Linux, go for it!


Oh really, why dont you time you round trip ping time to a game server and tell me the percentage difference a killer nic would actually make, once it hits your router, your packet is subject to the mercy of the phone lines or your cacle companys lines, so how is shaving off a tiny bit going to help ? Even at a lan party the difference is probably negligible. Next you'll be saying that the difference is NOTICEABLE between 80 fps and 85. In REAL actual life, he'll never notice his more responsive stack , and if he needs more USB ports, he'd be better off with a new MB with the money he saved. Sure if it is worth it to him, then fine, but Zen's argument holds water, period and is correct.
August 13, 2007 11:46:36 AM

royalcrown said:
Oh really, why dont you time you round trip ping time to a game server and tell me the percentage difference a killer nic would actually make, once it hits your router, your packet is subject to the mercy of the phone lines or your cacle companys lines, so how is shaving off a tiny bit going to help ? Even at a lan party the difference is probably negligible. Next you'll be saying that the difference is NOTICEABLE between 80 fps and 85. In REAL actual life, he'll never notice his more responsive stack , and if he needs more USB ports, he'd be better off with a new MB with the money he saved. Sure if it is worth it to him, then fine, but Zen's argument holds water, period and is correct.


Hahaha, I know it seems like I'm being the Devil's advocate here, but the argument was invalid. No one claims that this NIC improves the speed of your actual internet, it just reduces latency caused by windows overhead.

And the roughly 5% gain in ping and FPS you get will only be "noticed" by the most hardcore speed junky.

The reason I mentioned the USB port is because it's completely integrated into the NIC - i.e. you can host a server off your NIC without introducing any latency onto your computer. I didn't mean you should pay 250 for an extra USB port.

Hopefully tech like this will become available at a less ridiculous price. Somewhere between 10-50 bucks would be acceptable for the performance gains offered.
August 13, 2007 1:39:10 PM

I ping my local router..........

Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

I ping TomsHardware.Com
Reply from 208.48.160.11: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=50
Reply from 208.48.160.11: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=50
Reply from 208.48.160.11: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=50
Reply from 208.48.160.11: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=50

My local ping is under 1ms which could be as low as 0.1ms but let's go for 0.75ms for a reasonable high estimate.

Now, The packet needs to leave my PC to be processed by my router and returned. Let's assume 0.00ms wire time and 2/3rds of the time is taken by my PC. This leaves 0.50ms response time for my PC. Now, lets assume that your NIC is twice as fast which would cut the delay on my PC from 0.5ms to 0.25ms.

Now, 0.25ms reduction in a 94ms trasactions is close to one fourth of one percent. So, if I was getting 400FPS, this may get me to 401FPS.

Anything less than 200FPS would get me less than 1fps :>

And I have seen the reviews, and none showed results different beyond standard deviation.

I also work in very large environments so I fully understand the impact of "idle" chatter which you claim to be trying to overcome.

One network I was working with had an idle chatter of about 2,000-3,000 packets a second. This is what I would pickup on a PC sitting idle and not talking to anybody.

(Most was Windows Desktop PC chatter due to browswer announcements, etc... between about 15,000 PCs on our local portion of the WAN)

I was able to quickly reduce this to under 100 packets a second by tweaking the Windows OS on all of the PCs.

The result was that I was that I could still not measure any performance difference using the network, even with analysis tools.

So, I highly doubt the small number of stray packets on a home persons network is limiting the performance of the PC. The special stack to bypass this small amount of traffic is pointless as best.
August 13, 2007 2:23:42 PM

Way back in the day motherboards were pretty much an afterthought in building a system... then they began to mean something. Then it was PSUs... you'd just throw in any PSU and you were good to go. Not so now... well, now the network card is that component... it just doesn't have a noticeable impact on overall system performance.
August 13, 2007 4:50:34 PM

Sure, stack bypassing for gaming is pretty much useless, it would be impossible to see the small impact it has on latency reduction. My point is that it IS concievably useful in certain other applications.

The problem is, people are borderline offended by the price/performance tradeoff with this thing. In all honesty, it's more useful to look at it as a tech demonstration. As such, it DOES showcase what is essentially an entirely new type of NIC. I personally look at it as an interesting gadget that I don't really want.
November 16, 2007 1:54:55 AM

BIGFOOT KILLER NIC M1 IS BETTER
March 15, 2008 2:40:05 AM

neoxblu1 said:
BIGFOOT KILLER NIC M1 IS BETTER


I really hope this was a very bad attempt at a troll... every argument made above isn't specificially about the K1, it's about the idea paying a relatively huge amount of cash for an NIC with technology and features that just isn't beneficial enough to warrent such a high cost...
April 17, 2008 6:10:35 PM

The killer NIC is to a regular nic as Bling H2O is to bottled water. IOW spend that money towards a monitor/v-card/memory or just about anything else. Also I thought the golden rule to networking gaming is the 'games latency' is fast as the slowest computer? So what if you have this and your buddies have built in Nics, wouldn't the fact your's is slightly faster be negated?It does look pretty.
April 17, 2008 7:30:36 PM

PC Gamer reviewed the K1 (I think, it was like a year ago and I've slept since then) and they found that it actually increased there FPS, but didnt really have much effect on latency. Of course, the increase to FPS was not THAT good, and the money would be better put into a second GPU. They did say that the K1 was probably a better investment than a PhysX card tho, lol.

If your a super-hardcore enthusiast who must have the best of everything, its probably just the thing for you, but otherwise, I would stay away.
April 17, 2008 7:59:11 PM



Why on earth anyone would wanna pay 300 dollars for a Network card is beyond me...

But if they did, they would need a mirror, turn around and check the ass..

Cos thats where the brain would be...

Buy a faster video card instead. Upgrade the processor, put in more ram, buy a 32mb Cache Hard disk..

But do not waste 300 dolla on a turd board nic
April 17, 2008 10:28:01 PM

How is it that old threads get awoken from the dead like this one?

I honestly dont know how Killer NIC is making money for the manufacturer, because they are all about market hype and little to no improvement in actual performance
April 18, 2008 4:03:14 AM

Easy, chookman, there was a post made by an actual Bigfoot employee on this topic this morning, which as you can see, has been deleted. Also, this isn't the oldest thread I found to be dug up today. Was a couple from 2000 dug up as well.
April 22, 2008 11:37:35 PM

Let me break it down for you. Answer from non-interested consumer: no it is a giant waste of money

Answer from a pro gamer: hell yeah
April 26, 2008 3:14:31 AM

More like an answer from a pro gamer with unlimited funds.
April 29, 2008 2:27:12 PM

B-Unit said:
If he/she really is pro, then I imagine the funds for their PC are 'unlimited'

BTW, http://www.tomsguide.com/us/killer-m1-nic,review-1083.html


Alright so it did show improvement for 2 particular games. But is (giving the benefit of the doubt) a 10% frame rate improvement worth $200+ ? Like everyone said unless you are a pro gamer (or are obsessive compulsive ) they can keep it.
April 29, 2008 3:19:31 PM

Didnt say it was worth it, just saying its not a gimmick, there are gains to be had by adding one of these cards.
April 30, 2008 5:28:30 PM

all the positives of getting the nic away from onbard to safety for the board and the nic, is there. But a 15 dollar netgear does the same, and it is easier to chuck in the trash after it is killed.
the killer nic has a function in some extreme, not for gamers on home connects. (I would actually like to know the REAL purpose of such a card) Some kind of network charger for servers, a "leader nic"? what is it?
the memory onboard seems interesting enough, the big clock and its own cpu, and blah blah blah-it is rather bizarre.
April 30, 2008 5:44:52 PM

bgd73 said:
all the positives of getting the nic away from onbard to safety for the board and the nic, is there. But a 15 dollar netgear does the same, and it is easier to chuck in the trash after it is killed.
the killer nic has a function in some extreme, not for gamers on home connects. (I would actually like to know the REAL purpose of such a card) Some kind of network charger for servers, a "leader nic"? what is it?
the memory onboard seems interesting enough, the big clock and its own cpu, and blah blah blah-it is rather bizarre.


The point of it is to get the networking functions offloaded from the CPU, its not about a physical separation from the mobo. A $15 Netgear will NOT do that.
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
December 20, 2008 7:02:04 AM

Hi all,

i am actually looking into buying this NIC so i ended up on this thread. The reason i am interested is for work and not gaming. But i am also playing games so i thought i'd leave my comment. I do design software for use with stock exchanges where nic speed is important.

So here is the deal. Some games use UDP protocol for transmitting data. UDP is not like TCP where you receive all packets no matter what, if the NIC or the computer is busy then you lose the packet and then you have to request it and receive it again. This is the reason where you sometimes end up seeing things that happened in the past (a few hundred ms before) and then again to the present. This NIC will probably not lose any frames or at least a lot fewer than a NIC that depends on the CPU. So it is possible that you will see 5% or even more increase in performance. I think the card is designed for high end systems like what we use in our job, in a lower price. Imagine the millions of packets nasdaq has to handle every second and how important it is not to lose any of them. They use cards like this.

Nicolas Siatras
January 3, 2009 3:41:09 PM

You clearly have no idea why UDP is used over TCP and vice versa. In a high traffic environment such as Wallstreet that has packets that must be delivered, they would use TCP. UDP is used for packets that don't matter, such as games, streaming video, online radio, etc.

Your lack of understanding of basic networking explains the mild success of this card, if more people think like you that will see benefit from spending so much on something so gimmicky, then of course more crappy products will succeed.

The owner of Bigfoot is a con artist and judging by several interviews I've read with him defending the product he seems like a complete joke.
January 3, 2009 3:57:00 PM

royalcrown said:
Oh really, why dont you time you round trip ping time to a game server and tell me the percentage difference a killer nic would actually make, once it hits your router, your packet is subject to the mercy of the phone lines or your cacle companys lines, so how is shaving off a tiny bit going to help ? Even at a lan party the difference is probably negligible. Next you'll be saying that the difference is NOTICEABLE between 80 fps and 85. In REAL actual life, he'll never notice his more responsive stack , and if he needs more USB ports, he'd be better off with a new MB with the money he saved. Sure if it is worth it to him, then fine, but Zen's argument holds water, period and is correct.



you should read and understand more of other people's posts before starting the wrong arguments... :sol:  :heink: 
January 4, 2009 12:47:32 AM

hobo_23 said:

The owner of Bigfoot is a con artist and judging by several interviews I've read with him defending the product he seems like a complete joke.


lol wut ?

Quoting Anandtech:

Quote:
These results surprised us as we see minor frame rate improvements but ping rates were up to 7% greater than our D-Link router or NVIDIA NIC. The frame rate improvement is only worth mentioning because this game is generally GPU bound so any benchmark differences between systems is noticeable. Were the frame rate differences during game play noticeable? No they were not but we can tell you the increased ping rates were noticeable.


Again

Quote:
The Killer NIC gets a point for increasing frame rates as advertised. Of course anything over 35 fps in this game is very playable so the increases while nice did not really improve our game play.


One more for the Show !!!

Quote:
Ping rates did improve by up to 7% (host system improvements and server variables) and this is where we did notice a difference in game play during the busy test sessions on Friday and Saturday nights. When our area was full of players we did notice smoother game play at times with the Killer NIC. This did not happen when we were basically the only characters playing in certain sections. This game is designed to a certain degree for higher ping rates so there is some balancing that is already done by the server during combat. Overall, the Killer NIC performed almost as advertised in this benchmark.


Link: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2865&p=11

Now, i have already read alot on this card. Would i recomend it for a gamer ? Might.

For the enterprise environment , Mr Nicolas Siatras?
I would recomend to contact BigFoot Networks for more information and tecnical details. For the Enterprise/Bussiness envirnment is not a big investment and might really bring something really usefull.
The card is good, depends what you do with it. I would love to have one at work.
March 31, 2009 3:56:17 PM

I have one in my computer and have found that the game play is very smooth in fps (BF2) no matter how much is happening.
I also only paid 125 for it. Wait for a sale. The other reason I bought it was I very carefully planned my rig and was able to use all 3 pcie and 2 of the pci. One for the Killer N.I.C., one for the auzen prelude 7.1( that is a upgrade worth every penny, the sound quality is unbelievably better than onboard). IMO it seems to play better than without it.
June 6, 2009 6:24:25 PM

I checked the reviews on newegg, and people were all pro the card for the most part, which I found surprising. Have the naysayers here tried the card, or are those opinions based on their theory only?
June 7, 2009 4:45:36 PM

sirgrotius said:
I checked the reviews on newegg, and people were all pro the card for the most part, which I found surprising. Have the naysayers here tried the card, or are those opinions based on their theory only?


I would say in theory only. I did a very loose test by logging into a game, playing a few minutes, logging out and then logging in again to the same server using the Killer. I managed to do this three times. I noticed a difference for the better using the Killer nic. When trying to take a control point with 8 or 9 guys running around shooting, throwing hand grenades, choppers, jets, apc's, jeeps and tanks all trying to take/hold the point, there was no stuttering, without the card there was stuttering in similar circumstances. The connect ping never varied by more than 2 points when reconnecting. It was a 76ms ping site.

I am sure that there are people out there who can come up with reasons why this happened, but I tried to limit the variables.

Again, I only paid $125 CDN for a new card. My experiences are mine alone, and I say the card works. Not so much for ping, but for smoother game play. $250 for a new card? It would be iffy to buy. Unless you have the money and are putting together a high end system and this is the last purchase.

June 8, 2009 4:40:21 PM

Tell me if I'm wrong, wouldn't it be useless to have a Killer Nic, if any other device you're communicating with does not have one? I know its a simple weakest link theory but sounds possible.
June 19, 2009 11:27:37 AM

Dear All,

I think you are a little off topic, since the discussion here (how i see it), will it improve game performance. however, everyone is discussing how a network card improves FPS. I find is silly, since this is not primary function of network card, it is primary function of video card. Even thought, external NIC improved FPS it is "side effect" and not primary effect.
Generally, for online game apart from FPS there is connection with server, Latency. This determines how fast you send/receive responses from server. this affect how smooth you see whatever you doing in game world, and how fast you receive information of other players behavior.
Thus, you may have 80 FPS, but you try to interact with the world and see some delay in this interaction. This is Latency problem. Although, this as well may be the problem of some Intermediate router, might be a local card as well. Additional NIC card provides same benefit as addon sound/video cards, in comparison with integrated ones. They improve a specific operation, AND, since they take the load of the CPU, they improve overall system performance as side effect. By adding Killer card, you improve network performance, since it is the card who does all calculations and not CPU.
Thus, with Killer you improve the interaction aspect of the online game, and not FPS.

But to answer the original question: I think it is a lot of money for NIC card. When price drops up to some 80$, it would be a good addition to your PC, if you seek to improve Latency.
June 23, 2009 11:16:58 PM

KillerNIC offers two things that an onboard PHY solution may not.

TCP/IP checksum offload, and UDP processing. The KillerNIC is really a mini-computer on an add-in board with it's own CPU, RAM, and OS in firmware. If you have decent NIC already (anything 100mbit/1000mbit from Intel, or any of the newer Realtek chips like 8111x series, or pretty much any 3Com or Texas Instruments based NICs), it already features TCP/IP checksum offload.

What does this do for you exactly? It means the NIC does all the heavy lifting for TCP/IP packet processing, which will give you a better experience than what I can only call a wannabee solution, like the older Realteks and other wung-fung-chu brands.

KillerNIC does do something else that no other NIC currently does to my knowledge, which is UDP packet processing. KillerNIC will benefit you (i.e. decrease latency) in applications that use UDP instead of TCP/IP. Most MMORPGs use UDP (but not WoW), and some first person shooters do as well.

It all depends on what games you play or applications you run.

Hope this helps you out!
July 7, 2009 5:11:22 PM

Just put the extra money that you would have spent on this NIC into a better cpu. Seems like NIC helps mostly because it takes some load off the cpu, not because it really improves latency. Still seems like a waste, just one more parts that can fail.
July 13, 2009 4:43:16 PM

juncwil said:
Just put the extra money that you would have spent on this NIC into a better cpu. Seems like NIC helps mostly because it takes some load off the cpu, not because it really improves latency. Still seems like a waste, just one more parts that can fail.


If you already have the best CPU, then what?
July 13, 2009 5:52:37 PM

Master Exon said:
If you already have the best CPU, then what?


If you already have an i7 OCed to 4 Ghz and a very powerful gaming rig, then go ahead and put this in if you have money to burn. I'm interested to see how much improvements you actually get out of it.
!