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Europe - Thousands of flat-panel TVs sold are not 'HD-Ready'

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Anonymous
March 22, 2005 11:46:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Interesting article, bvt it fails to pick vp on the recent definition of HD
as inclvding Panels that will accept 1080i and 720p Component inpvts.......

http://news.bbc.co.vk/1/hi/technology/4361543.stm

Now that a critical mass of people have embraced digital TV, DVDs, and
digital video recorders, the next revolvtion for TV is being prepared for
ovr sets.
In most corners of TV and technology indvstries, high-definition (HDTV) is
being heralded as the biggest thing to happen to the television since
colovr. High-definition essentially makes TV at least fovr times better than
now. Bvt there is real concern that people are not getting the right
information abovt HD on the High Street. Thovsands of flat panel screens -
LCDs (liqvid crystal displays), plasma screens, and DLP rear-projection TV
sets - have already been sold as "HD", bvt are in fact not able to display
HD.

No connectors

"The UK is the largest display market in Evrope," according to John Binks,
director of GfK, which monitors global consvmer markets.


Bvt, he added: "Of all the flat panel screens sold, jvst 1.3% in the UK are
capable of getting high definition."

There are 74 different devices that are being sold as HD bvt are not
HD-ready, according to Alexander Ovdendijk, senior vice president of
marketing for satellite giant Astra. They may be fantastic qvality TVs, bvt
many do not have adaptors in them - called DVI or HDMI (High-Definition
Mvltimedia Interface) connectors - which let the set handle the higher
resolvtion digital images. Part of this is down to lack of vnderstanding and
training on the High Street, say indvstry experts, who gathered at Bafta in
London for the 2nd Evropean HDTV Svmmit last week. "We have to be carefvl
abovt consvmer confvsion. There is a massive edvcation process to go
throvgh," said Mr Binks. The indvstry already recognised that it wovld be a
challenge to get the right information abovt it across to those of vs who
will be watching it. Eventvally, that will be everyone. The BBC is cvrrently
developing plans to prodvce all its TV ovtpvt to meet HDTV standards by
2010.


Preparations for the analogve switch-off is already vnderway in some areas,
and programmes are being filmed with HD cameras. BSkyB plans to ship its
first generation set-top boxes, to receive HDTV broadcasts, in time for
Christmas. Like its Sky+ boxes, they will also be personal video recorders
(PVRs). The company will start broadcasts of HDTV programmes, offering them
as "premivm channel packages", concentrating, to start with, on sports, big
events, and films, in early 2006. Bvt the set-box box which receives HDTV
broadcasts has to plvg into a display - TV set - that can show the images at
the mvch higher resolvtion that HD demands, if HDTV is to be "real". By
2010, 20% of homes in the UK will have some sort of TV set or display that
can show HD in its fvll glory.

Edvcation, edvcation, edvcation

Bvt it is all getting rather confvsing for people who have only jvst taken
to "being digital". As a resvlt, all the key players, those who make flat
panel displays, as well as the satellite companies and broadcasters, formed
a HD forvm in 2004 to make svre they were all talking to each other. Part of
the forvm has been concerned with issves like indvstry standards and content
protection. Bvt it has also been preoccvpied with how to help the paying
pvblic know exactly what they are paying for.


From next month, all devices that have the right connectors and resolvtion
reqvired will carry a "HD-Ready" sticker. This also means they are eqvipped
to cope with both analogve and HDTV signals, and so comply with the minimvm
specification set ovt by the indvstry. "The logo is absolvtely the way
forward," said David Mercer, analysts with Strategy Analytics. "Bvt it is
still not appearing on many retail prodvcts." The indvstry is vpbeat that
the sticker will help, bvt it is only a start. "We can only do so mvch with
the position we are in today with manvfactvrers," said Mr Ovdendijk.
"There may well be a nvmber of dissatisfied cvstomers in the next few
months." The Evropean Broadcast Union (EBU) is testing different flavovrs of
HD formats to prepare for even better HDTV fvrther down the line. It is
similarly concerned that people get the right information on HDTV formats,
as well as which devices will svpport the formats. "We believe consvmers
bvying expensive displays need to ensvre their investment is worthwhile,"
said Phil Laven, technical director for the EBU. The TV display
manvfactvrers want vs to watch HD on screens that are at least 42 inches
(106cm), to get the "trve impact" of HD, they say, althovgh smaller displays
svffice. What may convince people to spend money on HD-ready devices is the
falling prices, which continve to tvmble across Evrope. The prices are
dropping an average of 20% every year, according to analysts. LCD prices
dropped by 43% in Evrope as a whole last year, according to Mr Ovdendijk.



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Anonymous
March 23, 2005 10:15:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"... Interesting article, but it fails to pick up on the recent
definition of HD
as including Panels that will accept 1080i and 720p Component
inputs......."

Many 480p capable flat planel displays are able to accept 720p and/or
1080i input and down convert it to the displays native 480p, that
doesn't make these displays High Definition. It may be a marketing
ploy, but High Definition is now and was always defined by the ATSC,
and the ATSC still only reconizes three formats as being High
Definition, they are 1080p/1080i/720p. The devices has to display one
of those natively (or at least come close) to qualify as HD.

http://www.atsc.org/
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 8:00:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mat Overton wrote:
>
> But, he added: "Of all the flat panel screens sold, just 1.3% in the UK are
> capable of getting high definition."
>
> There are 74 different devices that are being sold as HD but are not
> HD-ready, according to Alexander Oudendijk, senior vice president of
> marketing for satellite giant Astra. They may be fantastic quality TVs, but
> many do not have adaptors in them - called DVI or HDMI (High-Definition
> Multimedia Interface) connectors - which let the set handle the higher
> resolution digital images.

So, they're saying that it's not HD *unless* the TV has a DVI or HDMI
connection? And I thought that component video can also handle
that...hmmmm...

I would love to hear some comments from the "HDTV gurus" about this one :-)

-Naz

Part of this is down to lack of understanding and
> training on the High Street, say industry experts, who gathered at Bafta in
> London for the 2nd European HDTV Summit last week. "We have to be careful
> about consumer confusion. There is a massive education process to go
> through," said Mr Binks. The industry already recognised that it would be a
> challenge to get the right information about it across to those of us who
> will be watching it. Eventually, that will be everyone. The BBC is currently
> developing plans to produce all its TV output to meet HDTV standards by
> 2010.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 8:00:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
news:7J-dnY78pLhMEt_fRVn-pQ@rcn.net...
>
>
> Mat Overton wrote:
>>
>> But, he added: "Of all the flat panel screens sold, just 1.3% in the UK
>> are capable of getting high definition."
>>
>> There are 74 different devices that are being sold as HD but are not
>> HD-ready, according to Alexander Oudendijk, senior vice president of
>> marketing for satellite giant Astra. They may be fantastic quality TVs,
>> but many do not have adaptors in them - called DVI or HDMI
>> (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) connectors - which let the set
>> handle the higher resolution digital images.
>
> So, they're saying that it's not HD *unless* the TV has a DVI or HDMI
> connection? And I thought that component video can also handle
> that...hmmmm...
>
> I would love to hear some comments from the "HDTV gurus" about this one
> :-)
>
> -Naz

I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI or
HDMI involved. End of story.

Steve
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 9:40:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steven de Mena wrote:
> "Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
> news:7J-dnY78pLhMEt_fRVn-pQ@rcn.net...
>
>>
>>Mat Overton wrote:
>>
>>>But, he added: "Of all the flat panel screens sold, just 1.3% in the UK
>>>are capable of getting high definition."
>>>
>>>There are 74 different devices that are being sold as HD but are not
>>>HD-ready, according to Alexander Oudendijk, senior vice president of
>>>marketing for satellite giant Astra. They may be fantastic quality TVs,
>>>but many do not have adaptors in them - called DVI or HDMI
>>>(High-Definition Multimedia Interface) connectors - which let the set
>>>handle the higher resolution digital images.
>>
>>So, they're saying that it's not HD *unless* the TV has a DVI or HDMI
>>connection? And I thought that component video can also handle
>>that...hmmmm...
>>
>>I would love to hear some comments from the "HDTV gurus" about this one
>>:-)
>>
>>-Naz
>
>
> I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI or
> HDMI involved. End of story.
>
> Steve

You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right? Why
are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?

-Naz
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 10:47:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
news:moOdnSeIZcTfOt_fRVn-1g@rcn.net...
>>
>>
>> I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI
>> or HDMI involved. End of story.
>>
>> Steve
>
> You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right? Why
> are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?
>
> -Naz

I use the HDMI input to connect my Denon 3910 DVD player and the DVI to
connect my Dell Inspiron 8600 notebook.

I also have the cable input split and it also goes directly to the TV (to
the Digital Cable input) and I can compare the quality on the local HD
channels. I noticed a little difference but attributed that to the
different tuners. I will try the DVI output on the Comcast sometime as a
test. (There was discussion at first if Comcast even enabled the DVI
output, I believe they do now).

Thanks,

Steve
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 12:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> Many 480p capable flat planel displays are able to accept 720p and/or
> 1080i input and down convert it to the displays native 480p, that
> doesn't make these displays High Definition. It may be a marketing
> ploy, but High Definition is now and was always defined by the ATSC,
> and the ATSC still only reconizes three formats as being High
> Definition, they are 1080p/1080i/720p. The devices has to display one
> of those natively (or at least come close) to qualify as HD.
>
> http://www.atsc.org/

But does that include component high def inputs or just digital?
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 2:06:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> So, they're saying that it's not HD *unless* the TV has a DVI or HDMI
> connection? And I thought that component video can also handle
> that...hmmmm...
>
> I would love to hear some comments from the "HDTV gurus" about this one
> :-)


Exactly, the EITCA has said Component will be considered HD:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds18570.html
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 7:50:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steven de Mena wrote:

> "Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
> news:moOdnSeIZcTfOt_fRVn-1g@rcn.net...
>
>>>
>>>I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI
>>>or HDMI involved. End of story.
>>>
>>>Steve
>>
>>You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right? Why
>>are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?
>>
>>-Naz
>
>
> I use the HDMI input to connect my Denon 3910 DVD player and the DVI to
> connect my Dell Inspiron 8600 notebook.
>
> I also have the cable input split and it also goes directly to the TV (to
> the Digital Cable input) and I can compare the quality on the local HD
> channels. I noticed a little difference but attributed that to the
> different tuners. I will try the DVI output on the Comcast sometime as a
> test. (There was discussion at first if Comcast even enabled the DVI
> output, I believe they do now).

I've been using my Comcast SA3250HD's DVI port (out) to HDMI in (Sharp
Aquos) for almost 2 months now, and it works just fine. It should work
on yours since we both have a Comcast box and Sharp Aquos.

Well ok, maybe you have a different cable box...what's the model?

-Naz

>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 5:11:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
news:ca2dnf0BJ-liQ97fRVn-qg@rcn.net...
>
>
> Steven de Mena wrote:
>
>> "Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
>> news:moOdnSeIZcTfOt_fRVn-1g@rcn.net...
>>
>>>>
>>>>I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI
>>>>or HDMI involved. End of story.
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>
>>>You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right? Why
>>>are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?
>>>
>>>-Naz
>>
>>
>> I use the HDMI input to connect my Denon 3910 DVD player and the DVI to
>> connect my Dell Inspiron 8600 notebook.
>>
>> I also have the cable input split and it also goes directly to the TV (to
>> the Digital Cable input) and I can compare the quality on the local HD
>> channels. I noticed a little difference but attributed that to the
>> different tuners. I will try the DVI output on the Comcast sometime as a
>> test. (There was discussion at first if Comcast even enabled the DVI
>> output, I believe they do now).
>
> I've been using my Comcast SA3250HD's DVI port (out) to HDMI in (Sharp
> Aquos) for almost 2 months now, and it works just fine. It should work on
> yours since we both have a Comcast box and Sharp Aquos.
>
> Well ok, maybe you have a different cable box...what's the model?
>
> -Naz

Hi, I have the Comcast Dual Tuner PVR, the Motorola box (DCT6412). Yes I am
pretty sure it (DVI) is enabled now. Do you think I'll notice much of an
improvement over Component cables? I think the real issue is I feel Comcast
compresses the signal and there are sometimes artifacts in fast moving
scenes. :( 

I have the Sharp 32" LCD LC-32GD4U, by the way, and love it. I also use the
optical S/PDIF out on the Comcast box to my home theater receiver for all
audio. (I never even hooked up the speakers that came with the Sharp Aquos).

Steve
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 9:35:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mat Overton schrieb:
>>So, they're saying that it's not HD *unless* the TV has a DVI or HDMI
>>connection? And I thought that component video can also handle
>>that...hmmmm...
>>
>>I would love to hear some comments from the "HDTV gurus" about this one
>>:-)
>
>
>
> Exactly, the EITCA has said Component will be considered HD:
>
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds18570.html
>
>
Hello, please read carefully all words, especially the
following:
"The DVI or HDMI input supports content protection (HDCP)"

This is only one line of words, but in contents the heart of
all newer HDTV developments: HDCP is only served by DVI and
HDMI connectors, so your component signals might go dark or
be restricted to low-res, if the content owner likes to...

Klaus
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 5:18:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steven de Mena wrote:
> "Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
> news:ca2dnf0BJ-liQ97fRVn-qg@rcn.net...
>
>>
>>Steven de Mena wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
>>>news:moOdnSeIZcTfOt_fRVn-1g@rcn.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No DVI
>>>>>or HDMI involved. End of story.
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right? Why
>>>>are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?
>>>>
>>>>-Naz
>>>
>>>
>>>I use the HDMI input to connect my Denon 3910 DVD player and the DVI to
>>>connect my Dell Inspiron 8600 notebook.
>>>
>>>I also have the cable input split and it also goes directly to the TV (to
>>>the Digital Cable input) and I can compare the quality on the local HD
>>>channels. I noticed a little difference but attributed that to the
>>>different tuners. I will try the DVI output on the Comcast sometime as a
>>>test. (There was discussion at first if Comcast even enabled the DVI
>>>output, I believe they do now).
>>
>>I've been using my Comcast SA3250HD's DVI port (out) to HDMI in (Sharp
>>Aquos) for almost 2 months now, and it works just fine. It should work on
>>yours since we both have a Comcast box and Sharp Aquos.
>>
>>Well ok, maybe you have a different cable box...what's the model?
>>
>>-Naz
>
>
> Hi, I have the Comcast Dual Tuner PVR, the Motorola box (DCT6412). Yes I am
> pretty sure it (DVI) is enabled now. Do you think I'll notice much of an
> improvement over Component cables? I think the real issue is I feel Comcast
> compresses the signal and there are sometimes artifacts in fast moving
> scenes. :( 

As I watch DiscoveryHD, InHD, InHD2, and CinemaxHD, I only see flawless,
high definition picture. I don't see any errors or any artifacts in
fast moving scenes, either. I can only assume that it's NOT compressed.

As for whether DVI/HDMI is an improvement from component cable, I see
enough difference to make me not want to use component cable EVER again
if I can ;-)

>
> I have the Sharp 32" LCD LC-32GD4U, by the way, and love it. I also use the
> optical S/PDIF out on the Comcast box to my home theater receiver for all
> audio. (I never even hooked up the speakers that came with the Sharp Aquos).
>

That's pretty much my setup, also, which is why I'm taking the time to
reply to you. Only difference is that you have have a bigger TV - mine
is a 26" 26ga5U.

-Naz

> Steve
>
>
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 8:02:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
news:_NCdnTjEQ_nBKNjfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> Steven de Mena wrote:
>> "Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
>> news:ca2dnf0BJ-liQ97fRVn-qg@rcn.net...
>>
>>>
>>>Steven de Mena wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Naz Reyes" <user@site.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:moOdnSeIZcTfOt_fRVn-1g@rcn.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I connect my Comcast HD box to my HD LCD TV via component cables. No
>>>>>>DVI or HDMI involved. End of story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>You have a Sharp 32" LCD TV which has a DVI and HDMI inputs, right?
>>>>>Why are you NOT using them to connect your Comcast HD box to your TV?
>>>>>
>>>>>-Naz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I use the HDMI input to connect my Denon 3910 DVD player and the DVI to
>>>>connect my Dell Inspiron 8600 notebook.
>>>>
>>>>I also have the cable input split and it also goes directly to the TV
>>>>(to the Digital Cable input) and I can compare the quality on the local
>>>>HD channels. I noticed a little difference but attributed that to the
>>>>different tuners. I will try the DVI output on the Comcast sometime as
>>>>a test. (There was discussion at first if Comcast even enabled the DVI
>>>>output, I believe they do now).
>>>
>>>I've been using my Comcast SA3250HD's DVI port (out) to HDMI in (Sharp
>>>Aquos) for almost 2 months now, and it works just fine. It should work
>>>on yours since we both have a Comcast box and Sharp Aquos.
>>>
>>>Well ok, maybe you have a different cable box...what's the model?
>>>
>>>-Naz
>>
>>
>> Hi, I have the Comcast Dual Tuner PVR, the Motorola box (DCT6412). Yes I
>> am pretty sure it (DVI) is enabled now. Do you think I'll notice much of
>> an improvement over Component cables? I think the real issue is I feel
>> Comcast compresses the signal and there are sometimes artifacts in fast
>> moving scenes. :( 
>
> As I watch DiscoveryHD, InHD, InHD2, and CinemaxHD, I only see flawless,
> high definition picture. I don't see any errors or any artifacts in fast
> moving scenes, either. I can only assume that it's NOT compressed.
>
> As for whether DVI/HDMI is an improvement from component cable, I see
> enough difference to make me not want to use component cable EVER again if
> I can ;-)
>
>>
>> I have the Sharp 32" LCD LC-32GD4U, by the way, and love it. I also use
>> the optical S/PDIF out on the Comcast box to my home theater receiver for
>> all audio. (I never even hooked up the speakers that came with the Sharp
>> Aquos).
>>
>
> That's pretty much my setup, also, which is why I'm taking the time to
> reply to you. Only difference is that you have have a bigger TV - mine is
> a 26" 26ga5U.
>
> -Naz

I connected the DVI (Monster Cable) from the Comcast box to the TV directly
and the contrast and color don't look as crisp as the component cable. I am
surprised. In the Comcast setup I tried both 720 and 1080. :( 

Steve
!