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Help picking a card

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August 13, 2007 5:52:26 AM

HI I know this may be out of place but I was looking for people who knew what they were talking about

Which of these cards Would be the best choice

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3048551&CatId=1558

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3212568&CatId=1558

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3048552&CatId=1558#productresources

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3192396&CatId=1826

to go with this computer

http://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-A6152N-Desktop-Processor-Premium/dp/B000S6O03E/ref=dp_return_2/102-4856651-1968958?ie=UTF8&n=541966&s=pc


and would it be able to run games like biochock or crysis

thank you for your help in advance I know a bit about computers but I didn't want to make a rash decision since I am working on a budget and want everything to work out

More about : picking card

August 13, 2007 6:09:21 AM

It's a pity to pair such a good PC with a card like that. The 8600GT isn't too good under DX9, which means that probably under DX10 will be even worse. So you may run Crysis with DX10 effects, but very badly, and not too good under DX9 either. With a bit more than the money you'll pay for a 8600, you can get a 7900GS/X1950 Pro, which don't support DX10, but will offer better performance than the 8600 in DX9. The DX10 feature on the 8600 is more for showing off, the card is too weak to power DX10 games.
If you have the money, you should get an 8800GTS 320, which is very good for its price, and should give you good performance under both DX9 and DX10(although some people are speculating that current cards will not perform good under DX10, but I recall on of the Crysis devs told the 8800 should run the game on high settings).
If you really want a DX10 card but don't have money for the 8800, you could get the Sparkle, since it's cheaper and overclock it to match XFX's frequencies, or if you don't want to overclock, you can get this XFX.

August 13, 2007 6:20:26 AM

Thanks the only problem I have is the power supply because the newer cards need a bigger one and that is just about the only thing I don't feel comfortable upgrading. But about the 8800 I could just go without for about a month and a half and if I can get help with the PSU who knows any other suggestions and by badly do you mean it will stutter and be unplayable or I just won't be able to crank the setting up too much Also by having an older LCD monitor will that impact gaming too badly or should it be fine
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August 13, 2007 6:28:22 AM

Nobody know how Crysis will run exactly, but it's unlikely an 8600GT would run the game under DX10 with good performance. It will stutter and probably only be playable with very low details under DX10 and somewhere around low-medium on DX9. With a good DX9 card, you won't be able to play under DX10, but you should be able to run medium-high in DX9 with good framerates. Then again, I'm only speculating, as there are no official Crysis system reqs. out yet, but probably an 8600GT won't run the game too well.
What PSU you got now? If you say you're going to buy one in a month and a half, then you should probably forget about the 8800 and go for the G92 which will probably be launched in November.
August 13, 2007 6:39:56 AM

Well I just bought the computer on amazon and it didn't have details but people say it has a 300W psu and the reason for the month and a half wait is because4 I have to try and keep my bank balance above $200 so I don't get service fees when I turn 18 and I pretty much emptied it for the computer and I will make less when school starts by the way how expensive are 8800 and How expensive and how good will the G92 be
August 13, 2007 7:15:30 AM

a 8600 gt is certainly ABLE to run both those games but u wont be able to get it on medium settings or have eye candies. especially not on vista. just my assumption no one knows until both games come out. second question... 8800 gts 640mb is like $300-400 the 320mb is like $300. my guesses on the g92 is that nividia will probably price it in the $600-700 range with the 9800 gtx or whatever the name is.
August 13, 2007 7:27:45 AM

Thanks and how expensive and difficult is to change a power supply. the $600-$700 sounds like more than I wanted to spend though

what card in general would you suggest that can run most if not all current games at a decent level and run without slowdown for bioshock without looking too bad and maybe crysis. because I plan on spending $600-$700 overall in the next couple months an about a third of that is for a monitor are there any upgrades besides graphics you would recommend

Thank you for your time
August 13, 2007 7:32:49 AM

a power supply for the future... i think you would be safe a 750 toughpower from thermaltake. quite easy to change a power supply. what monitor do you have? if u've got like 17" get the 320mb gts if it's like 22"-26 or 7" get a 640mb gts or gtx. a 30" would be crossing into sli 640mb gts or gtx territory.
August 13, 2007 8:10:41 AM

I am just worried about putting a new power supply in for the first time on a brand new computer and screwing it up but I plan on having a 17"-20" monitor when I have the money I don't really feel comfortable spending much more than 300 dollars on a graphics card at this point but what would be the lifespans of the ones you suggested because if they will be obsolete in 6 months I may have to spend more I am just looking for opinions to help decide
August 13, 2007 8:35:08 AM

Well, since you got 600$, and said 200$ will go to a monitor, and a PSU would be somewhere between 1-200$, you'll have about 2-300$ for a video card. Lowest price for an 8800GTS 320 on newegg is $279, and it's a fairly good card, which will probably handle most games that will come out in one year from now if you don't use high resolutions. The things is nobody knows exactly how will the card handle true DX10 games, so that's why your best bet would be to wait for the G92. However, that will be more expensive, the rumors circulating on the Internet say 400-500 for a GTS and 500-600 for a GTX, but it might be more. If you can get more money until november, wait and get a G92, if you can't try to get an 8800 GTS 320 now.
The 8600GT has poor performance in today's games, so in future games it will be even worse. You'd be better with a good DX9 card, like an 7900GS/X1950 Pro, or an X1950XT which would be very good.
August 13, 2007 8:52:24 AM

I don't currently have $600 I have $30 and I will earn around $600 in a couple months and what is all involved in changing a power supply. on Tiger Direct I have seen a lot of good comments about current games using some of the 8600's I listed earlier a main game I want to be able to ply is Spore and some of the console ones that also release on PC especially the 360 games

Also aren't the 8800's bigger Does this PSu
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2235424&CatId=2533
Meet this requirement
450W PCI Express-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 30A or more. for this card
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2824836&CatId=2514
and would both of those be a good idea for the computer I posted earlier without adding any additional cooling or should I go down to the Cheaper 3200 because I want to be able to play bioshock and similar graphical quality games at a smooth framerate
August 13, 2007 11:26:01 AM

how many months? new gfx cards are coming out in a couple of months (probably)
August 13, 2007 5:04:33 PM

Well by the end of september hopefully because I am still waiting for the comp to get here and have no card at all to play more demanding games and I really don't want to spend more than $3000 on a card right now maybe in a year would an 8800gts be able run ok for the next year or so
August 13, 2007 5:13:58 PM

Aigol said:
I am just worried about putting a new power supply in for the first time on a brand new computer and screwing it up but I plan on having a 17"-20" monitor when I have the money I don't really feel comfortable spending much more than 300 dollars on a graphics card at this point but what would be the lifespans of the ones you suggested because if they will be obsolete in 6 months I may have to spend more I am just looking for opinions to help decide


To be completely honest, it is far more dangerous to keep running on a crap PSU like the one OEMs bundle their PCs with than changing it, hell, it's probably even simpler than changing ram to be completely honest, since you only have to unplug the old one and plug the new one in, that's all. I strongly urge you to get an Antec NeoHE/Corsair HX/Seasonic S12 or M12 on the 500-600W range, any of those will run any single system configuration you can throw at them, then get the 8800GTS 320 (Great card)
August 13, 2007 5:18:45 PM

So 500W to 600W should be enough for and 8800gts 320 and will that card be okay for the next year as long as I don't try maxing everything out is stock cooling enough for 8800gts

plus are any of those PSUs Larger that a stock one since I still have not seen the inside of the comp yet
August 13, 2007 5:26:38 PM

I didn't say just any 500W-600W, read carefully please. I said Antec NeoHE/Corsair HX/Seasonic S12 or M12. Those are the only $100-150 PSUs I ever recommend to people. I'm running myself on an Antec NeoHE 500 a 8800GTS 320 based system and still got a lot of juice to spare. As long as you don't try dual card configs you should be fine (which is something you most likely can't with your prebuilt).
August 13, 2007 5:30:12 PM

Thanks and the card would be okay for a year if I don't try maxing everything out right because if not I need to pick a different card
August 13, 2007 5:33:38 PM

the 8800GTS? it's maxing all games out there at the moment I believe. And will probably run on high for quite a bit of time. Honestly people stress too much the importance and performance of DX10, I have yet to see a REAL DX10 benchmark on a true DX10 title, and even if it runs slower, I'll just run on DX9 and will still look awesome...
August 13, 2007 5:58:30 PM

Okay I think I am going to go with this PSU

SeaSonic M12 SS-600HM ATX12V/EPS12V, 80Plus, Active PFC, RoHS, Dual-Fan, 600W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151030&Tpk=SeaSonic%2bM12%2bSS-600HM%2bATX12V%252fEPS12V%252c%2b80Plus%252c%2bActiv
if it will fit in my case and works with my mobo
And this card

XFX PVT80GGHD4 GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported HDCP Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150173
if it will fit and doesn't need extra cooling

And maybe this monitor
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1828823&body=REVIEWS
August 13, 2007 6:21:36 PM

That is a great PSU, however a bit expensive from newegg, I have no idea why they insist on selling PSUs $30 more expensive than the rest.

Corsair 520W SLI Certified Modular ATX Power Supply - CMPSU-520HX

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsair-520w-sli-certified-modular-atx-power-supply/q/loc/101/203270716.html

Antec NeoPower 550w ATX 12v SLI Ready Power Supply - NEO HE550

http://www.buy.com/prod/antec-neopower-550w-atx-12v-sli-ready-power-supply/q/loc/101/202014042.html

ANTEC NeoPower 650 Blue NeoPower650Blue Power Supply Retail ***Free Shipping

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10006251

Corsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W Power Supply Retail ***Free Shipping***

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373110

Those two are both comparable units (in quality) that output about the same amount of power. All four manufactured by Seasonic. (They output about the same power as units of the Seasonic M12 lineup on the same wattage range)

In my opinion the best deal is the NeoPower Blue, but if you can cash the rebate for the HX620, it's just about as good of a deal, just will take longer to materialize.

EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And there is no other for nvidia cards than eVGA, XFX is pretty good, but eVGA is just...eVGA :)  Can't comment on the monitor though, im still using a 17" CRT.
August 13, 2007 6:27:39 PM

So which one should I go with the xfx or evga

August 13, 2007 6:30:26 PM

eVGA all the way!
August 13, 2007 6:35:26 PM

and would you know if this stuff would fit in and work with the computer I am getting the case of the computer I am getting
url]http://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-A6152N-Desktop-Processor... B000S6O03E/ref=dp_return_2/102-4856651-1968958?ie=UTF8&n=541966&s=pc[/ur l]

Thank you for all your help figuring this out

and is it still the Evga if I don't plan on Ocing it to the same speed as the xfx

what is modular cabling
August 13, 2007 6:38:45 PM

Umm yeah, it should OC right on par with the XFX one.

Check this customer image of your PC:



It's the eVGA 8800GTS on a PC equal to yours.

EDIT: Modular cabling is when the PSU doesn't come with cables already attached but with nice plugs so you can attach as many as you need, keeping your case a lot more tidy and with better airflow.
August 13, 2007 6:48:27 PM

I meant because the xfx one I was looking at already had a higher clock speed and I don't plan on over clocking is the evga still the better choice
August 13, 2007 6:53:45 PM

Well you're saving about $30 for something you can do yourself, but if you really don't want to overclock it yourself, then go for the XFX. But to be honest, OC'ing graphics card is too simple to pay for a factory OC.
August 13, 2007 7:01:14 PM

is the power supply about the same size as a stock one

and if I do OC do I need better cooling and is OCing really necesarry on the evGA because I have never OCd before and I don't want to ruin a card by doing it wrong
August 13, 2007 7:07:09 PM

The cooler on that eVGA one is about as good as the XFX one, they are just running on different frequencies. And OC'ing is not a necessary thing to do either, but eVGA will replace damaged cards as long as there's no physical damage to it (more like evident anyway). It's up to you now.
August 13, 2007 7:08:58 PM

how do you OC a card anyway and does the xfx need any more cooling than stock fan
August 13, 2007 7:14:47 PM

No it doesn't need any more than stock cooling at those frequences. And there are several methods to OC, using apps like Atitool (My personal favorite), Rivatuner, nTune (from nvidia), NiBiTor (this is through bios flashing, not recommended at all) and probably more.

In atitool you just need to raise the sliders to increase frequencies and then test for artifacts, pretty easy to be honest.
August 13, 2007 8:54:51 PM

ok if I were to pick up the 7900GS would that be good enough to run current games at good levels and play dx10 in a dx9 mode

thats another question will all dx10 games be able to run in a dx9 mode. Would the 7900 GS be a good choice to start out cheap and play games like lost planet medievel 2 total war bioshock in DX9 for 6months to a year until the price drops for the new DX10 cards coming out also does anyone know what spore will need would I need a new PSU for a 7900GS or would the Sparkle 8600 be a good cheap start for the same games and timeframe if I didn't want to do a new psu at the moment
August 13, 2007 9:07:38 PM

A survey on Steam a while ago revealed that only 1% of gamers have a DX10 capable card. The real numbers might be higher, like 10% or so(I made this up, just so you'd know), but any developer that would make DX10 only games would cut off a big part of its customers. A 7900GS should run Bioshock with high details on DX9, and probably Crysis on medium to high. Lost Planet and Medieval 2 will run for sure, about Spore I have know idea, but then again, by the time Spore is out, DX10.1 mainstream cards should be out.
Don't get the 8600, even if it supports DX10, you'll end up playing in DX9 becuase of poor performance.
August 13, 2007 9:08:44 PM

surely he could get an evga card with the step up program? the g92 isn't that far off is it? (or have I lost track of time again? lol)
August 13, 2007 10:15:27 PM

Dont buy any card right now. Wait for the ATI Microcost/Nvidia DX10-DX10.1 issue settles a little.
August 14, 2007 2:49:21 AM

well currently in my dads computer I have a Diamond Stealth X300SE card what would that be good for


and I meant I could grab the $90.00 Sparkle card and run stuff in DX 9 until I have more money or until the price for the g92 drops or would that card not be good enough\ On tiger direct, amazon, and newegg I see a lot of people saying relly good stuff about the 8600 like maxing out battlefield 2 and other games like oblivion so would this really be an option since I don't want to replace PSU just yet

Also if you absolutely had to which 8600 would you recommend

do the overclocking utilities work for all cards and what are artifacts

August 14, 2007 9:31:04 AM

You could grab an 8600, but then again, since you're gonna use it for DX9 only, for a few extra bucks you can get an 7900 and have better performance.
If I had to recommend an 8600 I would get the Sparkle as it's the cheapest and you can OC it to match a pre OC-ed one.
OC utilities work on all cards, as far as I know. Artifacts are marks caused either by overheating or by a faulty card. Here's a few pics of games with artifacts I googled: 1 2 3

a c 175 U Graphics card
August 15, 2007 11:32:07 AM

I see a lot of good guidance by vonwombat (and others).
A 300W PSU could probably handle a 7600GT. That card has no auxilliary PCI-E power connector. It would be a reasonable and cheap short term upgrade. If you get EVGA, you can then "step up" to a nicer card within ninety days.
After the new PC arrives, add a 7600GT and then run it hard for thirty days. If the PC croaks, you should be able to exchange it or get it fixed without too much grief. If you've replaced the PSU, that may not be as easily done. If it remains healthy (and it ought to), then you can replace the PSU and upgrade the graphics. Seeing how the 7600GT performs will also give you a benchmark for comparison, and an idea of how much if any upgrade you want.
August 15, 2007 6:23:16 PM

Where can I get information on the step up thing
August 15, 2007 8:08:09 PM

Emp has some good suggestions on the PSU.They are very easy to change and I have seen some decent models for as low as the 75$ range.Basically go with a name brand with at least enough amperage on the "combined" 12v rails for the card you are getting.As far as the graphics card is concerned I am still recommending the 1950 pro or xt over anything but the 8800 series cards.At around 150$ they beat even my 7900gt which will beat a 7900gs.Great cards for the money.The 8800gts would be my preference if the budget allowed it but anything less than the cards mentioned "ie.8600,8500"will be lacking for gaming.
August 17, 2007 10:37:47 AM

Yes they both suck for gaming.
August 17, 2007 1:10:25 PM

Not to mess with your budget, but I really think you need a new case if you plan on eventually installing an x1950 or 8800-series cards. It will give you more room, but more importantly better cooling. For about $40 you can get a case that features two 120mm fans (intake/exhaust) and vents/fans for the CPU and graphics card.

I upgraded cases after I gutted my Pentium 4 Compaq case for an overclocked Opteron (X2) and a 7600gt. My CPU was hovering around 50*c under load and the 7600gt was in the mid-70's. My hard disks were also hot to the touch. I can only imagine how HOT your poorly ventilated case will be when playing a next gen game that utilizes all 4-cores and stresses your graphics card to the max.

Also, the 8800gts 320mb would be the minimum worth buying now if you want to play Crysis and the other new DX10 titles.
August 17, 2007 5:29:20 PM

Hi everyone, I was just about to post a similar question when I saw this thread.

I'm in the market to upgrade to a 8800GTS card, but I was wondering if there are cards coming out soon and I should wait a bit? I'm not in a huge rush. My X1950 PRO offers good performance, and there are no DX10 only apps currently. I tried finding news on possibly a 2900 PRO coming out or new NVIDIA cards, but without luck.

Thanks!
August 17, 2007 6:29:48 PM

How hard is it to transfer everything from one case to another


Also Those 8600's I have been looking at are getting really good reviews for the most part so that seems to contradict what evryone here is saying about how bad they are
August 17, 2007 6:33:35 PM

eqselgonas said:
Hi everyone, I was just about to post a similar question when I saw this thread.

I'm in the market to upgrade to a 8800GTS card, but I was wondering if there are cards coming out soon and I should wait a bit? I'm not in a huge rush. My X1950 PRO offers good performance, and there are no DX10 only apps currently. I tried finding news on possibly a 2900 PRO coming out or new NVIDIA cards, but without luck.

Thanks!

Don't upgrade now, wait for the G92 to come out. Your card will hold out quite well until November, and the 8800 is almost one year old, so it's not a good move to buy one now. Also, the 2900PRO will be a mid range card, and thus weaker than a 2900XT. Judging from the fact that you want to buy a 8800GTS, I believe that you want a high end card, so you'd better wait for the G92 in that case.
August 17, 2007 9:18:16 PM

Thanks Vonwombat. You're correct - I do want to buy a high-end card. Basically I was waiting for the 2900XT to see what ATI had to offer. Now that the 2900XT is out, I was wondering if they were going to issue an update to the family. Reviewers seemed to point to attributes of the card that would lead one to believe that it would naturally outperform the 8800 GTX (700M transistors that have 320 stream processor ALUs and a 512-bit memory interface) but for whatever reason it doesn't.

The thought that immediately comes to my mind is then, okay they have the 2900XT released, now they should work on whatever issue they have and get 2950XT out the door to compete with the 8800 GTX. Honestly I have no idea if that's how things work or not. The only thing I could find on ATI was a rumor of a 2900 PRO, which is why I made reference to it.

Thanks for the info on the G92. Now that I know what to look for, I was able to find tidbits on the internet.
August 17, 2007 9:26:17 PM

The 320 vs 120 stream processors thing is not very relevant. For example, the HD2600 has 120 stream processors, as much as the GTX, and the difference is huge. I don't know much about video card architectures, so those stream processors might make a difference in certain situations, like shader intensive games, but generally it's better to look at overall performance.
About the G92 you'll find plenty of rumors on the internet, but we don't know if they are true. However, we can expect that the G92 will outperform the G80 by quite a large margin, and it will definitely be something worth buying.
August 19, 2007 12:29:29 AM

Okay I was wondering how much longer will the 8800gts 320mb be able to play recent games at good 25+fps at low to mid settings

Also not including graphics how good is my computer for gaming right now
!