HELP! Best card for AGP 4x mobo????????

[robd007]

Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz
Mainboard : Intel Corporation D845GEBV2
Total Memory : 2GB DDR-SDRAM
Monitor/Panel : Dell D1025HTX
Adapter : VisionTek RADEON X1300 512MB (Omega 3.8.360)
Hard Disk : ST3320620A (298GB)
CD-ROM/DVD : PLEXTOR DVDR PX-740A
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Professional 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2)

that's my stats as of right now. im trying to find a new graphics card b/c even in Source i get crappy FPS with the X1300, even though it claims to have 512MB of video ram. i used to have a RADEON 9800 Pro until it started acting weird, then my friend let me borrow this X1300, which in my opinion is actually slower then the 9800 pro. My motherboard supports AGP 4x. i noticed in the sticky for this forum that the best AGP card was the ATI Radeon X1950XT. i can only find this card in 256MB versions...does a 512MB version exist? does it make sense to go down to less video RAM? can someone show me the light here? the only x1950xt i could find on new egg was http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241049 , i never even heard of GeCube. are they a reliable company? I was taught to buy straight from the manfacture when possible, as i did with my 9800 Pro. The X1300 is a VisionTek i believe. at little help here would be great. wats the best card i can run with my agp 4x mobo?

 

[robd007]

i noticed the ATI RADEON X1950 Pro AGP, not XT, has a 512MB AGP version...still cant find anything above 256MB for the XT...would 512MB out of the Pro be better then 256MB from the XT?

 

[misiu_mp]

Dont worry about video ram. Even 1 gb wont help you with a slow gpu and the rest of the system. The amount of video ram should REALLY be the least of your concern.
I would get a geforce7600gs with passive cooling from assus. They go for around 60-80$.

 

[misiu_mp]

Otherwise there are radeon 1950pros for twice the price. They come in 512mb versions.
Anyways, it is always better to get a card with faster memory then with lots of memory (unless it is really small amount of fast memory). 256mb @ 256bit will beat easly 512mb @ 128bit.

 

[robd007]

how does the geforce7600gs compare to the ATI x1950xt?

 

[cpburns]

dude, using a 512MB video card with a slow system like that is not going to help. i don't care if you think your system is fast. it's not. also, that "512MB" card is almost guaranteed to be a 128MB card that additionally uses 384MB of system memory as needed. it's something ATI calls hypermemory, and nvidia calls it turbocache. they're horrible technologies. sure, it'll prevent "out-of-memory" errors on games that will push lots of big textures to the card. on the other hand, what kind of framerate are you getting on those games by using a X1300? 5fps? 10fps? 15 max? you need a better GPU, and even the 7600GS is going to blow the X1300 away. that ATI card is a low-end model while the nVidia is a mid-range. i would only bother with something of the 7600GS's power since if you truly have only a AGP4X bus, you likely won't be able to use the full power of a X1950Pro or XT. it won't be able to push enough over a AGP8X bus because of your cpu and ram.

get a mid range card. X1650Pro or a 7600GS should suffice and perform better than your 9800Pro and your X1300 (i've had the 9800, loved that card).

btw, the Source engine does NOT push huge textures to the video card. it is perfectly happy with 256MB cards, and even 128MB cards do not kill its performance. i played HL2 on a 9800Pro 128MB with 1GB system memory and a AMD XP2800+ cpu. it ran at 1600x1200 without a hitch, high settings and all. it runs even nicer on my current 7800GT with 2GB ram and a dual core, but anyway...

 

[robd007]

so because of my 'slow' system im not gonna notice a difference between a 7600GS and a X1950XT on the agp4x bus? i was pretty much decided on the ATI RADEON X1950XT AGP 256MB until u said that...

 

[smokedyou911]

Yea, 7600gs will be your best bet. anything better will be limited by the cpu.

 

[robd007]

even with my 9800 Pro, i'd play at 1024x768 and get like 40ish fps... with the x1300 its in the 20's

 

[robd007]

i thought 2.8GHZ wasn't too shabby....much less a bottleneck

 

[cpburns]

btw, calling your system slow is not intended as an insult i ran a similar system until i was lucky enough to get the cash together for a major upgrade to AMD64 dual core.

and yeah, i definitely think you'll be limited by your cpu and the AGP4X bus. even the 7600GS may bump up against that bandwidth limitation; but you will be matching it much more closely to the overall system than you would with the X1950's. a 7600GS should give you a decent while more to game. nvidia had a smash hit with the 6600 series. they were an amazing compromise between price and performance. they continued that with the 7600's, and i'd say on to the 8800GTS 320MB.

 

[cpburns]

2.8GHz 32bit NetBurst architecture... it was an awesome chip about 5 years ago. but now it's just that, a 5 year old chip. a lot of the high end gpu's now swamp the cpu's of today. i know if i had gone with a single core a64 3700+, and gotten 7800GTs in SLI, i'd drown the cpu. my x2 3800 (OCed to 2.4) keeps up just fine with my 7800GT, and i'd even say i have a fairly well balance system now.

i remember envying my buddy when he built a 2.8GHz P4 with a 9800Pro and 1GB DDR400.

but yeah, it's 5 year old technology now.

 

[robd007]

im not really paying for this out of pocket (my own money), so theres just to be sure, theres NO advantage of gettin the x1950xt instead of the 7600gs?

 

[aevm]

EVGA 512-A8-N559 GeForce 7600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 AGP Pro 4X/8X Video Card, $125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

I would go for this one. Anything better would be bottlenecked by the AGP 4x and the CPU and might require a new PSU too.

 

[robd007]

EVGA 512-A8-N559 GeForce 7600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 AGP Pro 4X/8X Video Card, $125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

I would go for this one. Anything better would be bottlenecked by the AGP 4x and the CPU and might require a new PSU too.

wats the difference between the GS everyone's been recommending and the GT?

 

[cpburns]

aevm, i might disagree with getting a 512MB card with 800MHz memory. i'd think you'd get better performance from
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150233

it has 256MB, which is fine for pretty much all games that can run decently on the 7600 chips. more importantly, the memory is 1400MHz versus that 800MHz. that's around 75% more memory bandwidth right there. the core is 3.6% slower, but i don't think that'll be nearly as important as the memory subsystem.

go for whatever you want, but i'd suggest either of the cards aevm or i suggested. i think what i posted is a better card on the basis of the memory performance, but i could be vastly wrong >.<

 

[cpburns]

the GS is slower than the GT. the GT's generally have higher memory and core clock speeds. also, useful link. i know it's not "gospel" or perfect, but it's a decent breakdown.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/07/03/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page7.html

hope you're not too horribly confused.

 

[robd007]

the GS is slower than the GT. the GT's generally have higher memory and core clock speeds. also, useful link. i know it's not "gospel" or perfect, but it's a decent breakdown.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/07/03/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page7.html

hope you're not too horribly confused.

edit: got link to work... . is there a GT with the higher memory bandwith that your talking about WITH 512MB of video ram?

 

[aevm]

aevm, i might disagree with getting a 512MB card with 800MHz memory. i'd think you'd get better performance from
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150233

it has 256MB, which is fine for pretty much all games that can run decently on the 7600 chips. more importantly, the memory is 1400MHz versus that 800MHz. that's around 75% more memory bandwidth right there. the core is 3.6% slower, but i don't think that'll be nearly as important as the memory subsystem.

go for whatever you want, but i'd suggest either of the cards aevm or i suggested. i think what i posted is a better card on the basis of the memory performance, but i could be vastly wrong >.<

Excellent point. Plus, the one you discovered is cheaper. Am I allowed to change my vote?

 

[aevm]

edit: got link to work... . is there a GT with the higher memory bandwith that your talking about WITH 512MB of video ram?

You're getting greedy Tell you what, don't spend too much on this upgrade, better save your money for a new build. Get the card cpburns discovered and then don't spend another cent on this PC.

 

[cpburns]

i didn't even know 512MB 7600's existed until aevm found one lol. it's the point where, to use that 512MB buffer, you'd need at least a fast 7800 or higher core, and AGP8X at the bare minimum, if not PCIe x16. the doubled buffer (512MB) buys you nothing.

to aevm: i think mine is about $5 more expensive lol, but hey, better performance if i'm not wrong.

i know TheInquirer's reputation just as well as anyone on these forums, but i did think this article was kind of funny. and dare i claim the Inq hit this one dead on? hehe!
http://theinquirer.net/?article=41731

he brings up a good point though, around paragraphs 3 and 4. this is basically what i'm saying. and i'm fairly certain that even the 8600 series (pieces of crap) wouldn't even use 512MB.

oh yeah, and the 8600 runs on a PCIe x16 bus that can actually deliver the textures fast enough to usefully full that 512MB buffer. the AGP4X bus comes nowhere close to filling it. you're pumping 1GB/s through that max. well, hope i've helped without being a jerk O

 

[robd007]

faster memory > more memory

 

[cpburns]

while i'm here, let me hijack this temporarily. since the switch to the new forum design, i cannot figure out how to create a signature or other means to display my epeen, aka system config

can someone enlighten me?

 

[aevm]

to aevm: i think mine is about $5 more expensive lol, but hey, better performance if i'm not wrong.

Yours has a mail rebate, it ends up $15 less.

Signature: click Profile, then Forum Related Info, then type in the Signature section.

 

[cleeve]

Another vote for the 7600 GT 256mb.

By the way, that 7600 with 800Mhz memory isn't really a GT... even though it's called one. It's a GS with a faster core. Real 7600 GTs should be running GDDR3 memory at 1400 Mhz effective.

On a side note, I've tested the 7600 GT and X1950 PRO at AGP 4x, 8x, and PCIe. It made no notable difference.

If you want to buy an AGP X1950 PRO, it might be worth it on specific titles like Oblivion... but alot of titles will be CPU-bottlenecked with a 2.8.