New box for an old gamer...

chetbango · Aug 9, 2007

Ok, I have searched the board, but I am unable to get the exact answer.

I need a new box, and I have had my old one for a few years, so it is slow on even some older games.

I can spend up to 2500 for everything including monitor.

I am a gamer, and would like it to play most games well, I plan on getting MS Flight Simulator X. I currently play World of Warcraft, and even this older game is pretty slow on my current rig. I also enjoy FPS's. I shouldn't need a ton of storage, although I would like to start doing some basic home video editing.

From what I can gather from this board, non-SLI board should be OK, with a 8800GTS. Opinions?

Duel Core or Quad? What MB?

XP or Vista?

What Monitor, and does the monitor play a big role in choosing the other parts?

I don't have any strong feeling towards intel or AMD.

I haven't found a build on this site that meets my specs, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Oh, and I also do some really basic home recording for music, only enough that I would like this machine to be quiet.

Solariscs · Aug 9, 2007

Hey welcome to Tom's. What about this system?

Antec Nine Hundred
CORSAIR POWER SUPPLY CMPSU-620HX
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 2.4GHz
GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R
Super Talent DDR2-800 2GB (2x1GB) CL4 x 2
Seagate ST3500630AS 500GB
Lite-On LH-20A1S-12 20X SATA
EVGA nVidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB
SAMSUNG 244t-BK Black 24" 6ms

Price: ~$2250

If you are going to keep it for a while, might as well get the GTX card, if you want to upgrade later, you can get something smaller like the GTS 640MB.

I suggest 4GB ram, but you'll need a 64-bit Operating system. Personally I have Vista business 64-bit and love it. I haven't had any problems or anything, so I'd recommend getting the Home Premium 64-bit.

The Quad core would be great for the future, since more and more games and applications are going to support it and you can Overclock it later if you like.

The monitor, well you can get something smaller, but that samsung was in your budget so I through it in there

.

If you have any questions at all, contact me at Maximus9102 on AIM or Yahoo

Dior · Aug 9, 2007

$2500 is more than enough for a very, very nice PC.

I'd suggest going with the latest P35 chipset, a quad core and a 8800 GTX. I also recommend using XP Pro before all the Vista bugs get sorted out, you should wait until service pack 1 is released at the very least.

Here's the build:

Antec Nine Hundred $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050
Q6600 $295 (G0 stepping)
http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938452
2GB Super Talent DDR2 800 4-3-3-8 $94
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609026
EVGA 8800 GTX Superclocked $609
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079
Seagate 320GB $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148140
Corsair 620HX $109
http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A6200027
Creative X-fi XtremeGamer $81
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
LG 18X $28
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136119
Thermalrig ht 120 Ultra $47
http://www.xoxide.com/thermalright-ultra-120-cpu-cooler.html
Scythe S-flex 1600rpm fan $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185006
Arctic Cooling MX-1 paste $6
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100401
LG L226WTY-BF $350
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005097

$1969 after rebates.

L226WTY-BF is the best 22" there is in my opinion, 2ms response time, 3000:1 contrast and 170 degree viewing angles are hard to beat. With the Thermalright 120 Ultra you should be able to overclock your Q6600 to 3.2Ghz at the very least, Scythe S-flex is a very popular choice for these coolers.

Good luck.

Maziar · Aug 9, 2007

First to answer your questions, definitely get quad core , here is a nice article :
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3038&p=8

Also , get a nont SLI board , reasons :
1_SLI is needed for resolution like 1920x1200 and higher
2_U can have DDR3 , DDR2 and DDR3, in a P35 board but u can only have DDR2 in 680i motherboards
3_ITS A RUMOR that PCIE-2 is compatible with P35 ,

so lets go to specs :

1_CPU : Core2Quad Q6600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017 $299.99

2_Motherboard : If u want Both DDR2 and DDR3 , get ASUS P5KC :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131188 $152.99

If u only want DDR2 , get GIGABYTE P35 DS3R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050 $129.99

VGA : BFG 8800GTX OC 768:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143080 $529.99

RAM : OCZ 4GB DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227195 $235.99

HDD: SeaGate 320GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148140 $79.99

PSU : Corsair 620 (although Thermaltake Toughpower 700W is good too and has the same price )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002 $169.99

CASE :ThermalTake ARMOR :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133021 $169

Monitor : ACER 20inch 8ms , 1680x1050 :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009105 $199.99

LG DVDRW :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136119 $27.99

SoundCard : Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006 $80.99

CPU COOLER : THERMALTAKE MiniTyp:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106082 $48.99

Total price with ASUS P5KC : $1995.9
Total price with P35 DS3R : $1972.9

systemlord · Aug 9, 2007

Well it looks like these three beat me to it, there all great builds. You could flip a coin if it had three sides. The only thing that I would change to is the Fatality XtremeGamer soundcard. If you have any questions please ask away.

WR2 · Aug 9, 2007

The monitor need not influence you on choosing other parts - aside from having enough room on your desk/computer workspace. The LG L226WTY-BF Dior suggested is an excellent choice.

If a quiet PC is a priority look at the Antec P-182 case. It's a heavier case designed for quieter operation. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025 instead of the Antec 900.

Dior also suggested Q6600 2.4Ghz $295 and EVGA 8800 GTX Superclocked $609. Total-$909
Especially if you're not considering overclocking my suggestion would be Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz @ $579 and EVGA 8800GTS 640MB @ $340 (after rebate). Total-$919
Good performance in MS FSX is more dependent on the CPU than the video card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...10340343+50001157+1050727216&name=Core+2+Quad
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071
If you don't get the superclocked GTX you wont need the extra in case fan Dior suggested-Scythe S-flex 1600rpm.

Also suggested was the Thermalright 120 CPU cooler and Arctic Cooling MX-1 paste.
The ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro has Arctic Cooling MX-1 paste pre-applied to the heatsink and clips right into the exisiting socket clips. Much easier and quicker to install than the Thermalright. The stock intel HSF is a good performer but you'll like the quieter peformance (and better cooling if overclocking) of the aftermarket HSF.
AC Freeze 7 Pro $35 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
AC Freeze 7 Pro review http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=15749&PageId=0

For FSX you'll want a joystick/throttle like Saitek X52 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102507
or Flight Sim Yoke & Throttle Quadrant (like those from CH Products)
TrackIR is a great addition to FSX (and many other games). http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

Dior · Aug 9, 2007

WR2, no offense but I don't think it would be wise to sacrifice about 50% of your video card power for an extra 266Mhz on the CPU clock, Q6700 is heavily overpriced at the moment, that's why very few actually buy it. $379 would be a good price for it, $579 is a rip off considering it performs nearly identical to Q6600 which costs $280 less. You could get that extra 266Mhz even with a stock HSF without any noticeable temperature increase.

Also, the S-flex wasn't for the case, it was for Thermalright 120 Ultra which doesn't come with a fan but requires one, just wanted to clear that up.

croc · Aug 9, 2007

No one seems to be paying attention to the OP's needs / wants...

"I am a gamer, and would like it to play most games well, I plan on getting MS Flight Simulator X."

Chetbango, that sim eats up even 5k systems and spits them out after breakfast... I'd not rule out sli OR XF (if you can find any of the hd2900's with 1GB mem...)

systemlord · Aug 9, 2007

croc :

Instead of cutting everyone's opinion's, do you have any suggestions for the OP croc?

WR2 · Aug 9, 2007

Dior :

No offense taken Dior.
But if you had any experiance with FSX you'd know its the CPU, not the Video card that makes the Sim FLY.
From THG's own Video Charts.

Not quite a 50% advantage now is it? Wait? GTS outperforms the GTX?? (Actually within margin of error they perform the same since the Sim is CPU limited.) Also note that the GTX Ultra doesnt really outperform the GTS.
Now you might think that 22FPS might be unplayable, and for some fast twitch FPS games it might be, but the game should be butter smooth at 22FPS average.
Without knowing if the OP intends to attempt over clocking the system my suggestion is the only way he'll get increased performance without any decrease in eye candy, and within a few bucks of your suggestion too.

-> Also any SLI or Crossfire solution really won't increase playability either - not until you reach above 1920x1200 monitor resolutions such as 2560x1600.
FSX @ 1920x1200

paintball2936 · Aug 9, 2007

If your going to go as crazy with a gpu as this, then I would say that you should use a: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130090 for 630
and depending on how long it will take games to evolve to accept quad core, it would be better to get an E6850 core 2 duo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028
seriously , looking at the charts on Tom's Hardware, it's doing better than the Q6600, but I can't see the future, so maybe soon, maybe far later, but it may become better when all four are utilized, in fact, it almost definately will, but for gaming, this will take a while. In addition, it's really hot, I would consider a thermalright 120 eXtreme...

paintball2936 · Aug 9, 2007

also, I've never been able to hear differences between mobo sound and soundcards... so if you aren't keen, as such, just use the built-in, but, since you have $2500 to spend, I suppose...

Onus · Aug 9, 2007

Some good ideas. As much as I'd love to have an Antec-900 case myself, my suspicion is that the OP may be even older than I am (47) and might not care for the blue glow and potential noise of its fans.
A C2Q/Gigabyte build (Dior/Maziar) in an Antec P180 (WR2) would be a fantastic piece of gear. @WR2, nice touch on the flight peripherals.
Particularly if the OP plays older games, go with XP.
With my hearing, I don't have a lot to say about sound, but onboard sound is generally pretty decent, and less likely to have driver issues (like Creative with Vista).

sharp910sh · Aug 9, 2007

i would get the e6850 without a doubt for gaming, as how many games are there which support quad core comapred to dual or single core. plus you can oc the q6600 to 3.6ghz with G0 maybe on water. but the e6850 to 4ghz on air cooling easily. or maybe 4.2ghz or higher on water. plus the new penryn chips are coming out soon, so when you get bored of the e6850 just get the penyrn quad, and oc that. but unless your in video and photoshop then the quad will be better. or you like to run a number of applications at the same time which use alot of cpu power. but if you like to switch on your computer and start up a game and maybe IE, thn the e6850 is better. I have an e6850 and im happy.

WR2 · Aug 9, 2007

paintball2936 :

That time was here back in May when FSX SP1 was released.
“we too envision quad-core technology as an enabler of a more immersive experience,” said Phil Taylor, senior program manager of Aces Studio at Microsoft Game Studios. “Multi-core technology is already opening up a new world of significant possibilities with the Service Pack1 release for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. SP1 contains multi-threaded code for terrain loading and in-flight generation of terrain textures; as well as for the batching of Autogen vegetation and buildings. This code is written to allow SP1 to use all available cores. We are excited about AMD’s upcoming quad-core technology, which we believe will further enable our mutual customers to dial up the visual details when using SP1 and see more of the highly detailed world contained in FSX.”
Setting the CPU Affinity Mask to 14 for FSX lets core 0 handle system tasks and lets cores 1, 2 & 3 handle FSX. That seems to be working well for C2Q users.

jtt283; if the OP doesnt have a few years on you, I certainly do. I think Vista is a safe option at this point. Usually the Compatibility Mode options make it easy to run legacy programs - including games. I managed to get DOS ver of JetFigher2 running in Vista using the DosBox program after a little coaxing.

Dior · Aug 9, 2007

I see how CPU intensive MFS is, the thing is, I don't see any reason to pay $280 extra for 266Mhz when you can overclock your Q6600 to that speed in minutes even with a stock fan for free, no loss in stability, no real temperature increase, savings of $280 or so.

I'm also sure MFS isn't the only game OP is going to play, that's where the GTX would really shine, especially in the upcoming DX10 titles.

jet757f · Aug 10, 2007

WR2 :

I was also putting together a new system and planned on using the 8800GTX in SLI with the Q6600. Now after seeing your chart I am really thinking that I should just go with the 8800GTS Superclocked, 576MHz, 640MB
Probably save me a least $300.00 going this way and does not look like I lose much performance.
I do have 26" and 24" monitors that I like to use even in games at 1920x1200.
Thanks for the info.

WR2 · Aug 10, 2007

@ jet757f; with the G90 (think 9800GTX) so close (about 4 months) saving $300 is a smart move. Saving even $50 more getting a vanilla GTS is also a smart move if you're even THINKING about a G90 in '08. Even @ 19x12 resolution you don't lose "good play-ability" with a GTS. Get RivaTuner and "super clock" your own GTS.

@ Dior; recommending the OP stick with WinXP and then saying "the GTX would really shine, especially in the upcoming DX10 titles" doesn't really track. Vista is required for DX10. Meaning the the OP will shell out an extra $110 for Vista later. Vista XP compatibility mode works great and the advanced compatibility tools mean even your favorite Win98 games could run on Vista.
For a list of what works, work around for programs with problems running under Vista and no-run programs check out the Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List
There are usually patches or work-around (such as "Right-click and choose Run As Administrator.) around the gaming community sites.

Also I hope you're not telling the OP the GTX cards shine, but the GTS cards don't shine. At less than 1600x1200 resolution its hard to find a game where the GTS card's dont deliver good gaming performance. With the G90 cards just a few months away tossing $270-300 around just for FPS bragging rights doesnt sound like a good idea to me. If a GTS delivers 50FPS do you really need an extra 15-20FPS in a game?

@ chetbango; Check the GTS/GTX performance comparisons yourself. Your impression that the GTS is a good choice was "Right On"! Now that I see the GTS/320MB models are dipping to around $250 (after rebate) I have to say I'd recommend one of those over the GTS/640MB for $340 I suggested earlier. Also saving $359 over another suggested video card.
XFX 8800GTS 320MB @ $250 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150171
-> Also the smart money says get Vista now, not spend an extra $110 later to upgrade. There is a small performance penalty for Vista is most noticeable when installing on older, less powerful hardware. With the high spec new system you're looking at you'll never notice the Vista penalty. WoW runs fine on Vista.

Don't neglect to get a good keyboard and mouse. I always recommend a visit to CompUSA, BestBuy or similar store to get a hands-on feel of the peripherals. Also look into the specialized flight & gaming controls - that equipment can increase the enjoyment a LOT more than a few extra FPS. TrackIR isnt for everyone but I have to plug the best gaming upgrade I've ever run across. Check the video examples out here: http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-videos.html

ethel · Aug 10, 2007

One more vote for the GTX - if you're going to spend $2500 on a system designed for gaming, spending $550 on a graphics card is a no brainer.

chetbango · Aug 12, 2007

Wow, absolutely Awesome replies!!

Ok, Looking at the cases, I like the Atec 900, and I guess I overstated my age, I am in my mid 30's. I like the looks of it and according to the reviews, I can switch the fans to a lower setting when it isn't cranking out the heat, which it shouldn't be when I need it to be quietest (when recording music in my room).

I like the idea of quad core with a GTX, as I bought my last PC with 'upgrading' in mind, but never did. I doubt I will upgrade this PC, just keep it as I bought it until it is far past the upgrading stage. (My current PC is approx 5-6 years old). So building a decent DirectX10 machine now would make sense. I'll do some more research on the differences.

I am still on the fence about the OS. I like XP, and I remember making a new comp with Win 98 when Win ME or 2000 was just out and really being happy I kept 98. I might need to do some more research here. Will XP do direct X 10?

As far as monitor, I think a 22 is a good size, so I think I'd go with LG L226WTY-BF.

Thanks for all the replies, please keep your opinions coming, it is a great way for me (and others I am sure) to learn!

I'll keep everyone posted on this project.

TexasVol · Aug 12, 2007

I'm looking to configure something similar, but I want to OC some. What do you think of the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R in this case. Should I consider ASUS p5k deluxe instead?

aevm · Aug 12, 2007

Both are great choices. The P5K is easier to overclock, while the Gigabyte runs cooler and consumes less.

aevm · Aug 12, 2007

chetbango :

No, it won't. Microsoft wants XP customers to upgrade to Vista, rather than just downloading DirectX10 support for free. It is their duty to the shareholders after all...

My new PC is based on Q6600, 8800 GTX, GA-P35C-DS3R, 2x2GB OCZ DDR2-800, and it works really nicely. You can do better than that for Flight Simulator with a Q6700 or a QX6850 but it's not worth the additional cost. You could also do better if you overclock, in which case definitely get the Thermalright Ultra/Scythe fan.

You mentioned you wanted a quiet PC. For that I'd say get a P182 case, or even a Lian-Li PC-V2100. The Thermalright Ultra will reduce noise a lot compared with the stock CPU cooler. The 8800 GTX also comes in various flavours, some noisier than others. I went with BFG after reading lots of reviews, but eVGA is also a good choice.

Good luck!

Solariscs · Aug 12, 2007

I, personally, have a Foxconn GTX and I can't even hear it in my case. And my case is almost silent. I'd recommend it to anyone, but both bfg and evga are great companies.

chetbango · Aug 18, 2007

OK, here is what I have so far, I think going for the GTX seems a bit steep in bang for buck, and I am unsure of the 6700 over the 6600. I am reluctant to try overclocking, and I figure the 6700 might be a bit more future-proof than the 6600. I have a feeling the 9xxx nvidea cards are going to be the best way to upgrade the GPU, so SLI is not a huge concern. Quad core, i think, would be the way to go, as I plan to keep this PC for some time, same with Vista, and the 4 gigs of RAM.

How difficult is overclocking? Should I save some money and overclock the 6600 CPU? I have fears of hours of messing around and a less stable system. Although I figure I may as well get a better cooler just in case. Is the 6700 overclockable? Is overclockable a word? I looked at the thermalright Ultra and it seems it may be hard to fit and work around. Would the Artic 7 pro be a decent choice of something similar but smaller? Can I ask too many questions? Any input would be appreciated.

Case
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
$139.99 -$10.00 Instant $129.99

MB
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
$129.99

GPU
EVGA 640-P2-N825-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video
$409.99 -$15.00 Instant $394.99

PSU
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply - Retail
$189.99 -$20.00 Instant $169.99

CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80562Q6700 - Retail $555.99

Card reader
Rosewill RCR-FD200 All-in-one USB 2.0 Black 3.5" Card Reader with 1.44MB Floppy Drive - Retail
$25.99

RAM (4 gigs)
SUPER TALENT 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model T800UX2GC4 - Retail
$93.99 x2 $187.98

HD
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3320620A 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
$79.99

Keyboard
Logitech G11 Silver & Black USB Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail
$58.99 -$5.00 Instant $53.99

Mouse
Logitech G5 2-Tone 7 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Laser Mouse - Retail
$59.99

Burner
LG 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM Write Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model GSA-H54NK - OEM
$27.99

OS
Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
$111.99

CPU cooler
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail
34.99

New box for an old gamer...

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