Seasonic S12 430w and 8800GTS

[new_builder]

I was talking about the 8600GT on the graphics card section when there was talk of psu requirements, so this is different subject i created here but not about the 8600GT.

OK let me get to the point, i wanted to know whether a Seasonic S12 430w can power a 8800gts.

I already have a answer from the other thread which is no but i was looking at one of the cards and found that the requirements is a minimum 400w with +12v rating of 26 amps.

Here is the link of a 8800gts with the psu requirements http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=640-P2-N827-AR

Now my psu apparently has 29A shared between two +12v lines, what does that mean?
does it mean my psu is capable of running a 8800gts?

And here are two links with info on my psu that state it has 29A:

http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/seasonics12/s12.htm

http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Quality+PSU+Brands+and+Models?t=anon you can find it in the middle of the page under the seasonic section.

I'm not looking into buying this card now but i wanted to know if i did get a card in the future as good as this would my seasonic s12 430w be able to handle it.

Thanks for helping me out.

 

[badge]

I was talking about the 8600GT on the graphics card section when there was talk of psu requirements, so this is different subject i created here but not about the 8600GT.

OK let me get to the point, i wanted to know whether a Seasonic S12 430w can power a 8800gts.

I already have a answer from the other thread which is no but i was looking at one of the cards and found that the requirements is a minimum 400w with +12v rating of 26 amps.

Here is the link of a 8800gts with the psu requirements http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=640-P2-N827-AR

Now my psu apparently as 29A shared between two +12v lines, what does that mean?
does it mean my psu is capable of running a 8800gts?

And here are two links with info on my psu that state it has 29A:

http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/seasonics12/s12.htm

http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Quality+PSU+Brands+and+Models?t=anon you can find it in the middle of the page under the seasonic section.

I'm not looking into buying this card now but i wanted to know if i did get a card in the future as good as this would my seasonic s12 430w be able to handle it.

Thanks for helping me out.

The 8800GTS does require a minimum of 26 amps on the 12v. Your PSU provides 29 amps, but actual amperage will be slightly less than that. Depending on other system components, your psu may or may not power the 8800gts. Especially if you stress or max out the system the psu you have may not work out. And over time, stressing your psu out could cause overheating and failure. You might look to something with a little more 12 volt amperage and more watts for your system requirements with a 8800gts, especially when considering 'stressing' your system.

 

[new_builder]

ok well i used a psu calculator on a website, i selected everything i had and also selected a 8800gts 640mb and the psu wattage came 423W. What do you think about that?

Also wanted to know in general if you had a system that went a few watts over the psu, will it be ok or is that dangerous, so like will going a few watts over could start causing overheating and failure.

I want to know because the psu is not something you upgrade regularly.

 

[badge]

I would just say over time, like over the course of months, your psu could give out due to being overstressed. I have had psu's run excessively hot to the touch also. I see a lot of posters actually RMAing thier 'bad' 8800gts's because of 'weird' lnes on the screen. You can't tell them it's their weak psu causing the problem.

 

[skittle]

spend the $30 or so.. and get the 520hx.

 

[new_builder]

spend the $30 or so.. and get the 520hx.

The Seasonic S12 psu is what i have right now.

 

[RetiredChief]

Badge is giving you GOOD advice. The link you provided shows 14 A for 12V1 and 15A for V2. As badge pointed out, This ratings are for Low power consumption on the %V and 3.3V rails. From your link, if you add up the listed Power (in Watts) it comes to Approx 528 Watts, Yet it is only rated at 430 Watts.

I had a 600 Watt P/S ( The Calculator shows I needed about 480W ).
I have a X1950XT Graphics card. My 12 Volt rails were V1 = 16A, V2=14A , and V3 = 6A. It Worked, but would not allow even a 25 MHz clock OC. (Most likely do to the 6A on the V3 rail which only provide power to the 6 Pin pci-e connector.

 

[rgsaunders]

Don't forget when calculating power supply capacity to figure in the efficiency rating, most modern quality power supply can operate at a max efficiency of 80-85% when operated in the 20-80% capacity range. If you overload the power supply by operating at more than 80% theoretical capacity your reliability and efficiency decrease sharply.

 

[new_builder]

Badge is giving you GOOD advice. The link you provided shows 14 A for 12V1 and 15A for V2. As badge pointed out, This ratings are for Low power consumption on the %V and 3.3V rails. From your link, if you add up the listed Power (in Watts) it comes to Approx 528 Watts, Yet it is only rated at 430 Watts.

I had a 600 Watt P/S ( The Calculator shows I needed about 480W ).
I have a X1950XT Graphics card. My 12 Volt rails were V1 = 16A, V2=14A , and V3 = 6A. It Worked, but would not allow even a 25 MHz clock OC. (Most likely do to the 6A on the V3 rail which only provide power to the 6 Pin pci-e connector.

I am sorry i didn't understand this properly but are you saying that my psu quality is about 528w but rated at 430w is this a good indication?, not that i would be foolish enough to start overloading my system but are you saying that i possibly can run a 8800gts.

btw i trust badge's advice and i won't be maxing out my psu, but is 423w usage of 430w stressing the psu.

Just seeking clarification on the two issues

Thanks for all your insight.

 

[xela]

I am sorry i didn't understand this properly but are you saying that my psu quality is about 528w but rated at 430w is this a good indication?, not that i would be foolish enough to start overloading my system but are you saying that i possibly can run a 8800gts.

btw i trust badge's advice and i won't be maxing out my psu, but is 423w usage of 430w stressing the psu.

Just seeking clarification on the two issues

Thanks for all your insight.

You seem to realise that GPU is not the only part that draws power from your PC but unwilling to provide the details of your build. Unless you post that there is not way we can tell you if your Seasonic will cut it and all you will get is a bunch of pointless guesses.

 

[new_builder]

You seem to realise that GPU is not the only part that draws power from your PC but unwilling to provide the details of your build. Unless you post that there is not way we can tell you if your Seasonic will cut it and all you will get is a bunch of pointless guesses.

I don't seem to, i do know that, i'm not unwilling i just haven't given specific details my mistake , thats why i gave you an estimate of the psu usage by using a psu calculator.

Well anyway here is the info you need, to give me more specific answers

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700
2GB DDR2 800 RAM
Asus P5N-E
x1950pro possibly (i am upgrading gpu but will get something better like 8800gts in the future)
2 IDE hard disk, 1 SATA II hard disk
1 floppy drive, 2 Optical Drives
Seasonic S12 430w
2x120mm case fans

anything else i missed out?

 

[RetiredChief]

New_Builder
(1) What I was pointing out, With numbers, is what Badge saaid. You have to take what the Manf. List as specs with a grain of salt.
If you add up all the Nrs for your P/S, It comes up to 528W, Which it can NOT provide as it is only rated at 430W. As power requirements for the +3.3 and +5V rails increase above 88 W, the power available for the +12 V rails will decrease from the Manuf. listed spec.

(2) As rgsaundes pointed out. Your PS Minimun size should be at least 20% greater than your requirements. Ideally I shoot for 50%. However this is complicated my the how tne Manuf. rate the P/S. With the High end graphics cards the 12 Volt rail is the most important Rail. Some of the cheap 600 W P/S with 2 12V/18 Amp (Total 36A) May not work whereas a good 520 W/ 34 Amp 12V rail will work.

As Zela pointed out, they would be able to provide a better analysis if they knew your system / future system components, ie Nr/type Hard drives and the Nr. of ODD. The also you power from your +12V rails.

 

[RetiredChief]

Sorry, Saw you included your spec. while I was typing - I know I'm slow sometimes.

 

[new_builder]

yeah thanks for clearing that point up for me, i understand what you are saying now.

So now everyone has details on what i am running, maybe we can get a more definitive answer.

I'd also like to thank badge, rgsaunders and RetiredChief for giving sensible advice which i am glad to take on board

 

[xela]

yeah thanks for clearing that point up for me, i understand what you are saying now.

So now everyone has details on what i am running, maybe we can get a more definitive answer.

I'd also like to thank badge, rgsaunders and RetiredChief for giving sensible advice which i am glad to take on board

All the recent buzz on PSU's on forums and WWW in general has a lot of people freaked. Try to focus, leave that behind and review the facts:

Here is an answer for you:

Recommended PSU Wattage: * 356 W
Amperage (combined)

+3.3V +5V +12V
7.2 A 11.5 A 22.9 A


Minimum UPS rating: 509 VA
Recommended UPS rating: ** 600 VA

(Copied from Pro Extreme PSU Calculator)

You also have to understand that this is a 100% peak load of every component at the VERY safe value, for instance:

[http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2953&p=12]

Th e power required @ the full load is significantly less then you might expect (the value given on Anand's link is a full system draw) and lower then you will get for the same components @ PSU calc as you will be hardpressed to stress every single component in you PC at the same time and PSU calc gives you Safe values.

So.. even with some capacitor aging and a mild overclock, you are still very safe with your PSU (witch is of a good brand I might add). You might even consider adding a X-Fi to the setup. Hope this helps you a bit.

Also remember that a better PSU, while not a must in your case, is always a safer bet and you will be well advised to ALWAYS BET SAFE!

 

[mike99]

As you already have the PSU, just try it! Run stress test with 3Dmark06 and your games. If it fails and trips out, you KNOW you need to upgrade! Better, also to upgrade if gaming session causes PSU to run hot (very hot air from rear).

Mike

 

[xela]

As you already have the PSU, just try it! Run stress test with 3Dmark06 and your games. If it fails and trips out, you KNOW you need to upgrade! Better, also to upgrade if gaming session causes PSU to run hot (very hot air from rear).

Mike

Here is an example of a freak out on the PSU subject suggesting that a GPU rated at 108W will blow a high brand 420W PSU in E6750 system. Advice on the hot air on the other hand is practical and shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

[new_builder]

That helps a lot Xela thanks, and thanks to everyone else for their input too.

I'd just like to point at the moment i am on a budget so i will be getting either a 8600gt or x1950pro for short term which you can help me decide in the graphics card section
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244309-33-8600gt-positives

but i will defiantly be getting a card like a 8800gts when i am ready, i just wanted some assurance as to whether my psu would be able to cope with it as its not something you upgrade regularly. I myself only upgrade when necessary and i need a decent card now as my old 6600 isn't doing well with newer games.

 

[jaguarskx]

The 8800GTS does require a minimum of 26 amps on the 12v. Your PSU provides 29 amps, but actual amperage will be slightly less than that. Depending on other system components, your psu may or may not power the 8800gts.

The Seasonic S12 430 is rated at constant 29 amps on the 12v rail, not peak amps like most other PSUs. The Seasonic S12 430 will be able to deliver 348w (12v x 29 amps) on the 12v rails. If I remember correctly the 12v rails are split between a 14 amp line and a 15 amp line.

Here is a review of the Seasonic S12 430 PSU:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article226-page1.html

The 8800GTS 640 KO is overclocked so, it will probably consume about the same amount of power as the 8800GTX 768. That works out to be 132w or 11 amps which can be seen from the pic below from Xbitlabs.com:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf8800gts320MB-roundup_8.html#sect0

If you were to buy the 8800GTS 640 KO, I would run it on the 14amp 12v rail (line). I would not attach more than 1 hard drive to the that same 12v rail.

The rest of your components should be able to run off of the 15amp 12v rail, assuming you do not overload it with too many devices. I do not know what other components is or will be in the PC, but the 15amp 12v rail will have no problems with a C2D E6600 overclocked to 3.2GHz, two 7200RPM hard drives, a DVD burner and three 120mm fans.

By the way, I have the Seasonic S12 500 which I bought about three years ago after doing about 3 months of research on power supplies.

 

[badge]

The Seasonic S12 430 is rated at constant 29 amps on the 12v rail, not peak amps like most other PSUs. The Seasonic S12 430 will be able to deliver 348w (12v x 29 amps) on the 12v rails. If I remember correctly the 12v rails are split between a 14 amp line and a 15 amp line.

Here is a review of the Seasonic S12 430 PSU:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article226-page1.html

The 8800GTS 640 KO is overclocked so, it will probably consume about the same amount of power as the 8800GTX 768. That works out to be 132w or 11 amps which can be seen from the pic below from Xbitlabs.com:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf8800gts320MB-roundup_8.html#sect0

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gf8800gts320MB-roundup/8800gts320_power.gif

If you were to buy the 8800GTS 640 KO, I would run it on the 14amp 12v rail (line). I would not attach more than 1 hard drive to the that same 12v rail.

The rest of your components should be able to run off of the 15amp 12v rail, assuming you do not overload it with too many devices. I do not know what other components is or will be in the PC, but the 15amp 12v rail will have no problems with a C2D E6600 overclocked to 3.2GHz, two 7200RPM hard drives, a DVD burner and three 120mm fans.

By the way, I have the Seasonic S12 500 which I bought about three years ago after doing about 3 months of research on power supplies.

If I remember correctly the 12v rails are split between a 14 amp line and a 15 amp line.

+12V1@17A,+12V2@17A

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

If you were to buy the 8800GTS 640 KO, I would run it on the 14amp 12v rail (line). I would not attach more than 1 hard drive to the that same 12v rail.

System requirements EVGA 8800GTS:

EVGA
Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 26 Amps.)

See system requirements from mfg. here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071

Personally, I would do what one of the other posters said and try it. Looks like a really nice unit.

 

[jaguarskx]

If I remember correctly the 12v rails are split between a 14 amp line and a 15 amp line.

+12V1@17A,+12V2@17A

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

If you were to buy the 8800GTS 640 KO, I would run it on the 14amp 12v rail (line). I would not attach more than 1 hard drive to the that same 12v rail.

System requirements EVGA 8800GTS:

EVGA
Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 26 Amps.)

You gotta be f**king kidding me. You're quoting spec's from a retailer's site?

Here's a picture of the Seasonics S12 430 PSU sticker:

Like I said before, the Seasonic S12 (old) series are rated at continuous amps so this 430w unit will provide 29 amps x 12v = 348w on the 12v rails. That's 3 more amps than the minimum recommendation for the 8800GTS 640 KO.

 

[badge]

Take it easy jaguarskx. I never said anything bad about OP's psu. Like Retired Chief said, a psu should be 20% greater than your requirements and ideally 50%. I would agree with those numbers more than I disagree. As I speak I'm waiting for Enermax to ship my SECOND RMA of one their 'premium' power supplies. I have 15 personal computer builds running here. I have all kinds of psu's, some new in the unopened box! My garage is stacked full of psu's. I have a special shelf I keep them on. I realize you researched for 3 months before you bought a Seasonic 500 watt unit. I looked at the research and data you provided. Obviously these are top performance units. For God's akes thanks for pointing that out so well. II will consider buying one on your recommendation. I take your word on it and your word is far better any data you can find to back it up. Funny, I have $39 500 watt power supplies (More than one) I have been running for five to six years. The third one died about six months ago.

 

[badge]

I just sent in the rebate for this psu a few days ago. I haven't even opened it up. Any good?

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/7766/stealthstream600jk6.jpg

 

[RetiredChief]

1st off the manuf specs are vailid, but can be misleading as H doulbe l.

Using the link provided by the OP.
+3.3 @ 30 Amps = 99W
+5 @ 30 Amps = 150 W
However the +3.3 V and The 5 V cannot exceed 150 W
These two voltages are primarilly used by the Motherboard and Proccessor. I believe the +5 is also used by the Graphics card (Not a main source of power, but some is used.
I think it would be safe to say that a modern Proc + mother Board would take between 100 and 120 W.

Now for the 12 V
Speced at 29A (14 +15) = 348 W

again 150 + 348 = 498 W. 68 W HIGHER than rating.

Now for Practical, subtracting The 120 fro 430 yields 310W available for the +12, or 25.8 Amps.

You will only get the rated 29A IF the combined Power for the +3.3V, 5.0V, -12V, and the +5USB is 82 WATTS. I may be wrong but I think a E6x00 takes arround 60 W all by itself.

Side comment: The ariticle indicated that the +12V rail dropped to 11.7V when operated close to max (W/100W for +3.3 and +5).
Ohms law would indicate that with reduced voltage, current would decrease. This is true for a resistor (Passive circuit), It is not true for majority of active circuits, Current goes UP Power stays the same.

Would I recomment this 430 W P/S for a 8800 series card- NO

 

[jaguarskx]

1st off the manuf specs are vailid, but can be misleading as H doulbe l.

Now for Practical, subtracting The 120 fro 430 yields 310W available for the +12, or 25.8 Amps.

You will only get the rated 29A IF the combined Power for the +3.3V, 5.0V, -12V, and the +5USB is 82 WATTS. I may be wrong but I think a E6x00 takes arround 60 W all by itself.

Modern PC draws more PC from the 12v rails than from the 3.3v or 5v rails. Almost all power hungry components draws power from the 12v rails.

The biggest power draw on the 3.3v/5v rails will be the motherboard. RAM and anything plugged into the PCI ports, like a sound card will also be drawing power from these two rails. The heads on hard drives and CD/DVD drives draws power from the 5v rail, while the motor that actually spins the platter or CD/DVD draws power from the 12v rail. Oh yeah, the floppy drive too.

A premium motherboard with all the bells and whistles draws what, 50w max? 2GB of RAM draws maybe 10w. Sound cards probably draws about 8w - 12w and the head motors on hard drives, DVD drives is about 6w - 7w.

Assuming that for some strange reason the OP's power on the 12v rail maxes out all 348w of power, there will still be 82w on the 3.3v/5v rails.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
2GB DDR2 667 RAM
Asus P5N-E SLI
8600GT or x1950pro possibly (i am upgrading gpu but will get something better like 8800gts in the future)
2 IDE hard disk, 1 SATA II hard disk
1 floppy drive, 2 Optical Drives
Seasonic S12 430w
2x120mm case fans

Based on the OP's proposed PSU, but excluding the GPU I estimate the max power draw on the 12v rails to be as follows: (P.S. I hate Power Calculators because they often inflate their numbers):

E6750 OC'ed to 3.0GHz......................................68w *
3 Hard Drives (IDE & SATA)................................45w (12v x 1.2 amps and rounded up for each drive)
2 Optical Drives................................................15w (12v x 1.2 amps and rounded up for each drive)
2 120mm Fans (Full Speed).................................12w

Total Est. Max Power Consumption on 12v rail.......140w
Total Est. Max Amp Consumption on 12v rail..........11.67a = 140w / 12v

* This is based on actual power measurements from Xbitlabs.com. The 68w is based on an overclock making the E6750 faster than the C2D X6800.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-shootout_11.html#sect0

If the OP is not overclocking the CPU, then the E6750 should approximately draw as much power the stock E6700 since they are more or less the same clock speed. This would drop the max CPU power consumption to about 59w.

MAX POWER CONSUMPTION assumes every single component is working at 100% load. It is really doubtful that the all 6 drives will be spinning all at once while the CPU will be maxed out. Assuming the CPU will running @ 100% load and the drives are idle, power consumption on the 12v rail should drop to about 120w (with the CPU @ 3.0GHz and the fans running at full speed. That means 10 amps.

The 8800GTS 640 KO should not draw as much power as the 8800GTX 768, but I'll take the 8800GTX power consumption just to be conservative. Below is the pic from Xbitlabs' review which I provided a link to in my previous post.

As can be seen the 8800GTX draws about 132w, or 11 amps. A standard 8800GTS 640 draws 106w, or 8.8 amps. If I were the OP and wanted to play it safe I would simply buy a stock speed 8800GTS 640.


Getting back to total max power consumption, with an overclocked E6750 @ 3.0GHz and a 8800GTX 768 total max power consumption will be 272w or 22.67 amps. Typical power consumption while playing will probably be close to 233w, or 19.42 amps.

If the CPU is running at stock speed and the OP drops in a stock speed 8800GTS 640 GPU, then total max power consumption will drop down to 245w or 20.42 amps. Typical power consumption while playing will probably be close to 197w. or 16.42 amps.

In either situation the Seasonic S12 430 will have no problems running this setup because if the PC were to consume 272w (max power consumption) on the 12v rails, that means there is still 158w (13.17 amps) left for the 3.3v/5v rails.

UPDATE:

Edited for some grammatical errors, but more importantly the calculations were based on 4 hard drives, but the OP's proposed PC only had 3 hard drives. The calculations have been updated.