Should Tom fire Omid?

I should read more into this subject first.

But the fact he's using the Hard News like that is absolute wrong! He should have updated his article if he wanted to respond to the comments.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

I don't know what's going on, but if he did something bad, just let Wingding have his way with him.

That'll teach him.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">The French are being described as cheese-eating surrender monkeys.</A></font color=red>

Ok maybe the Hard News writing was not the best thing, but I am against firing him.

Omid's articles are a must in this blind IT world.
Friggin hell, the guy has a point, fanboys run amok, no one is capable of even opening their minds up, companies are blaming others, they are managed by monkeys who don't even think of the consumer's side, they figure the customers are all Joes.
I don't see how the "hard truth" by Omid should be bad in any way. Without his articles, it'd seem all hardware websites are writing blindly, thinking just smart people are reading them.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden.

I think getting fired is less painfull then letting Wingding loose on you. Anyway I voted 'Should think more' as I have no knowledge to make a real vote.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by svol on 03/03/03 07:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

You're better off not knowing who Wingding is.

<font color=red><i>Doctor Hooter</i></font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.page3.com/" target="_new"><b>(·Y·)</b></A>

I am not religious by any means, but I could not stifle the AMEN that came out when I read the above post. BrAvO!

Straight from the heart of Texas,
~C<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Cynetix on 03/03/03 04:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

I've voted YES and I'm here to explain why. Excuse me for my bad english, it isn't my motherlanguage.

When I first discovered Tom's Hardware I thought "I hope it will last, he's going right against the old-style marketing".Obviously Tom wasn't fighting an Holy War or anything like that.He -just- did what , I think, every PC enthusiast and professional wants: benchmarking machines, using them in laboratory and everyday conditions. I also noticed that he isn't superficial in testing, he goes for facts, not marketing leaflets. This is expensive, this requires 1)time 2)equipment 3)will to do 4)some passion for this kind of work.

Tom Hardware was the FIRST site I've seen on the right side of the bridge: the side of technical -facts-. None or very little hype keywords like " this is hot" or "this is the best developement in the industry" and other combinations of words that try to give the reader the impression much is being said, while it's just a lot of mumbo jumbo with little or no informative value.

The articles by Omid didn't impress me much. I really tought I was reading a copy of some Tabloid. Let me explain why:

From: The Hoaxa Threaty

"I believe, with all my heart, that the purpose of sites like THG is to challenge the establishment."

This could have been from Blair,Bush,Saddam,Britney Spears and Odin. This rings a "bullshit" alarm bell to me. THG is challing the establishment ? And how ? By publishing articles on hardware ? Get real, THG isn't a political party or a network television. THG, imho, is about facts, not rethoric exercises.

"Forums where ideologues congregate and hijack communities are the establishment.
The establishment is the belief in the two party system: AMD versus Intel, Nvidia versus ATI. Forums where ideologues congregate and hijack communities are the establishment."

A bunch of geeks discussing about what's hot, Intel or AMD, is THE Establishment ? It's just a great deal of hot air, often plagued by countless trolls.

"I worry that THG, and sites like THG, are not doing enough to prepare for a future where overclocking and case modding are quaint pastimes, and best of class performance is a decadent folly."

And what's the future ? Even if you knew the future, which is impossible, why should you share this kind of billion worths information here ? Where's the gain ?

"It is our job to say it as we see it, and suffer the consequences.
It is our job to stand up for ourselves.
It is our job to do the best we can.
It is our job to go for it, and fail trying. But we never stop trying.
Your job is to enjoy the process. I can't see why you'd read something that you can't get into. Be it a review, or an Op Ed piece, or even a rant. "

My job is installing/maintaining/developing business solutions with hardware and software. It's already a tought business when done seriously, and since when is "enjoyment" a job ? All that stuff above sound like a gospel to me.

I could go on, but the point can be easily summarized.

Omid is either
1) highly confused, mixing sentiments with opinions and facts coming from PC world, enthusiats world, VC world, Economic Theory world.
2) trying to stir some emotional response from people that, when it comes to hardware and software, know how to separate emotions and rants from facts, otherwise they wouldn't be reading THG.
3) has a twisted writing style that is much more appropriate for a tabloid then for THG.

That why I voted "yes" to "firing" , because I think Omir articles don't belong to THG. I want lab tests, measurements, FACTS here. Omir has all the web space he can buy for cheap to express and voice his opinions.

I agree with asphix20's post on the subject. In my opinion it would be too bad to see Omid let go. I like to read his columns as a breath of fresh air.
Have a nice day, PR

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/wingding.html" target="_new"> Here's Wingding </A>

<b> "You can put lipstick on a pig, but hey, it's still a pig!" - RobD </b>

personal right? in the US it is also a constitutional right. Meaning he is guanteed the right of free speech. If he gets fired for stating his opinion he can turn around a sue basicly.

Not sure about anywhere else ... i think?

I personally liked his rantings. I didn't agree with it all but people are seriusly sick and extreme when it comes to hardware. I use to be as well but i just kind of realized that, heck, they all do the samething. It's a matter of preference. Fanboys have a tendency to get really mean and nasty if you like AMD or Intel isntead of what the fanboy wants you to like, however i've seen more AMD fanboys then Intel fanboys.

His point i think which he tried to make 4 times is that some of you people are retarded to get all horney over hardware. Think about it ya know? I use to be that way so i know. I still like technology and cool gadgets but i have my preferences just like you do. You can't force it onto someone. Maybe give your personal experience and then they can decide what they want.

You can't fire someone over their opinion. If he falsly reported information like say superman saved Intel in bold text lol then ya. Or infringed on someones copyrighted material too would be bad. lol



Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

i don't know what bill o'riely would say. I doubt he would say that and id on't think you can prove he said that. I don't remember him saying it.

it doesn't matter what you say or do. If it isn't copyrighted, patented, or trademarked; if you can't prove you came up with it first it doesn't matter if it's private or what have you. The information needs to be copyrighted. If it isn't, anyone can use it for anything and there isn't a thing you can do.

just so you know the copyright, trademark, etc. is true for the majority of the world.

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

elpapacito has a VERY valid point. Do you not think Microsoft would fire their webmaster if he hijacked the site and spouted off against linux and apple? It's not about free speech at all. Firing Omid would not amount to Tom suppressing his right to free speech at all. Tom is not required by law to give Omid a column on the internet at his expense.

If Tom had set guidelines about what he is allowing to be put up and Omid overstepped the boundaries of those guidelines, then disciplinary action is in order. If that amounts Omid being fired, then that's up to Tom to decide.

Honestly, I really don't know what Tom allows, what the reigns on Omid's job description permit him to do, or what, if any guidelines Tom has set up. I can't therefore say one way or the other whether he should be fired.

I can, however, put in my two cents. I'd much rather have had Omid state his opinion on the matter in here first. In fact, I'd like it if more people from THG staff would be involved here. The board was much better when Fredi was posting semi-regularly, as direct feedback could be had. Ah well, like I said that's my opinion, and they don't call it 2 cents worth for nothing.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

LOL, I still have no idea why people are all over you exactly, but I find it funny that my little wingding comment got so much attention.

Seriously though, watch out for him. Cover your rear. Get your shots.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">The French are being described as cheese-eating surrender monkeys.</A></font color=red>

I have no idea. I think it's turned into some kind of weird intervention

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">The French are being described as cheese-eating surrender monkeys.</A></font color=red>

You don't want to know... but if you really want I can ask him to post here. But don't say I didn't warned you.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

You're way off base here. Freedom of speech is all about using whatever medium you can to make your voice heard. Newspapers always carry their opionions in specifically set columns. You may not always agree with it, but it's somebody's opionion. And therein lies the crux of the piece. OPINION. Not "I'm right and you're wrong for not agreeing with me".

Omid is merely using his position to make his voice heard on matters. And y'know what? Good luck to him. One of the reasons I rate this site above alot of other sites I use is because of this. It's not JUST about hardware reviews and "this does this in this ways and has this feature blah blah blah yabba yabba yabba" Spare me. If if i want that kind of no-brain stuff, I'll go to the manufacturers website and read their bumf on the matter. I want opinions, not just facts.

At the end of the day, if you don't like what he has to say, you don't have to read it do you?

Microsoft is a company, Tom's Guides Publishing LLC is a company.

One of the beauties of having your own publishing company is you get to say what gets published and what doesn't. You are not required by law to give anyone else a voice. Think about it, you start up a publishing company and then you HAVE to print whatever I submit.

This doesn't go against any free speech laws at all. Tom would not have prevented Omid from stating his opinion at all. He just wouldn't have let him do it on his site (these are all hypotheticals, I don't know if Tom let Omid write that or not).

No newspaper is required by law to have an opinion section.

What's more I'm not saying the site was in the wrong for printing it. They can print whatever they want really, but it's Tom's choice as to what gets printed. If he didn't want that up there and Omid put it up anyways, then Omid is in the wrong.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

OK. So you didn't quite get the meaning. If I want to hear how wonderous and great and how world shatteringly brilliant that latest release from a company is, I'll go to their website and read all their bullshit. If I want informed, professional opinion, combined with facts, then I'll come here, to THG for that.

My entire point is that's what I want. Informed opinion. Not PR bollocks. This way, I get to make up my own mind without being brainwahsed by the slick marketing exec's.

Freedom of speech? I stand by everything I said. In Britain, bakc in May, they had the big march against globalisation and other such stuff, people ranting and raving about how wrong this is etc etc. There was the Poll Tax demonstrations back in the late eightes/early nineties. People incensed enough to take to the streets, rally, get on soap boxes and make themselves heard. It's their right to do so, however much we may not like what they are saying. I respect that.

Granted on "Total freedom leads to anarchy." On the flip side, it could all end up like a hippy comune with everyone smoking weed and no one having a cross word. The only work done would be harvesting the ganja! LOL!

As for Omid, well, his latest article ("Reality Check" was <i>designed</i> to provoke debate, to do just what you and me are doing! (albeit about other things though, but hey, it proves there's still passion in the hardware community!)

Tom obviously has the final say on what he prints and doesn't print, so if Tom likes what he says, then it hits the web.

Newspapers carry differing opinions. Britains 2 leading newspapers (Daily Mirror and The Sun) both carry different opinions on the proposed war with Iraq. The Mirror is dead set against it. The Sun is for it. Neither is right or wrong. What I like about this is that it provkes debate and thought, meaning I can see both sides and make my own mind up.

You may not neccessarily agree with what I've written, but it's my opinion. You have yours. Omid writes his opinions and they get viewed. Hell, this is being viewed by a lot of people within THGC, so it's the same principal!

Wow... what an emotion.

But don't worry... the poll is against firing him.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

I've heard that he is from Arab. Anyway, both Arab and Persia are in middle-east

Submit your opinion <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=28537#28537" target="_new"> Should Tom Fire Omid? </A>

Okay, so it’s true, I’ve been up to my chin in work for the past 8 months and haven’t participated as much as I should in the THG newsgroups. Albeit true, that for the most part this has been due to our entrenchment in R&D processes developing 64-bit computer solutions.

In other words, it’s probably not a good time to ask about Hammers, since my response may include words from the universal foul-mouthed trucker and/or prostitute dictionaries, or a combination of the two. Frankly, I feel like AMD has taken me (and other 64-bit development “partners”) for a long ride, off a short pier. Unfortunately, it was only a couple of years ago that Intel burned us in a similar fiasco with the I820/I840 mess, never mind the whole RAMBUS disaster and the fact that Intel has bastardized every chipset since to make a CPU developed for RAMBUS, actually run under DDR. (Which to date is STILL not widely reported by the industry press INCLUDING TOM’S HARDWARE!). I would love to see Intel come out with a CPU that was actually DEVELOPED to run under DDR instead of bridging to the memory interface, but I’ll save that rant for another day.

To the issue at hand:
I'm not really sure why the proposal of firing Omid is being raised in the first place. While I may be behind in my postings, I’m still reading every week and in the process, learning a whole lot of new buzzwords and new industry slang from the articles (and responses) posted.

Today, I was called a "Fanboy" for the first time and by a loyal customer no less. After a short pause to gather my composure (and a second to actually stop and think about whether or not I AM a fanboy.) I chuckled and replied, “You may be right.”

I've read Omid's articles with great interest. As someone that owns a computer company, it is still fair to say that I have dedicated the majority of my time in the PC industry (26 years now) mainly as a CONSUMER ADVOCATE and industry critic (don't get me started about ZD either).

This unfortunately means that I am not only someone that openly criticizes most OEMs for saying one thing and doing another, it also means that I am the guy in the front row at Intel Channel Conferences and AMD "Roadshow" gatherings, criticizing BOTH companies for broken promises, marketing LIES (yes, I call them like I see them!) and lackluster (at best) innovation. 67MHz increments is not innovation folks, it’s life extension of existing technologies.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing marketing people tell me how great they are, and how crappy the "competition" is, only to see revised roadmaps with more delays within 24-hours after getting back from one of these conferences. To think that Intel actually had a required Channel meeting to discuss AMD part numbering (XP CPUs) blows my mind.

Based on what I know about the industry, Tom’s Hardware and what I have read from Omid (and the forums that have sprung up regarding Omid’s commentary), I would like to add the following two-bits of personal commentary.

1) We need people in the trade press to speak their minds without fear of reprisal or backlash. Especially when what they are saying is the truth. Hey, let’s face it, if everyone thought the same way, we wouldn’t have an Intel or AMD to bitch about. If Omid pisses people off, GOOD. At least people are forced to THINK.
2) If people are pissed off about Omid writing about AMD, when can we get Omid to start writing about Microsoft and really stir up the mix? I’ve been waiting for someone in the press to face off against Microsoft and their ongoing lies and deception for years! Now is a great time to stick Omid on Steve Ballmer’s desk for some high temperature, podiatric rotisserie action. (Hold his feet to the fire)
3) Tom’s Hardware WAS a great resource for unbiased industry information, I get the feeling that more and more, Tom’s writers are sucking up to the OEMs they are ‘supposed’ to review. Frankly, at times it is hard to tell where any particular OEM’s ass ends, and the writers lips begin. There have been instances where I wanted to write Tom asking if people were getting good pay-offs for kissing ass so well, but I’ve refrained. Again, only because I’m too busy worrying about my own tail. In this regard, in January my staff and I decided collectively to no longer consider Tom’s Hardware as an unbiased resource. We now consider everything we read in the reviews sections as biased or simply as paid advertising.
4) To date, Tom’s hardware has failed to identify MAJOR design flaws, limitations and flat out false-marketing information regarding products from the many of the major manufacturers including Nvidia and Creative Labs who seem to be heavily courted by Tom’s Hardware staff.

I’m not talking about little things, but rather known flaws going back several years and nothing has been mentioned about them. Just as an example, I will mention S-video specifications for Nvidia and Digital Audio Processing at published specifications for Creative Labs. If you don’t know what I am talking about it’s because Tom’s hasn’t identified these known problems which in my mind means that they are too busy playing Quake instead of actually reviewing the products in hand. When a product doesn’t do what it says it will, then it should come out in a review. In these cases (and there are many more) it just hasn’t happened. As a heads up, products reviewed (by us) from both Nvidia and Creative Labs have been given our poorest ratings for failing to operate within (and/or at) their published specifications.

5) Being current. Timeliness is important in this industry. I have seen lots of cool information on Tom’s regarding upcoming AMD and Intel platform hype, both good and bad. What I don’t like? Specification changes discovered AFTER a review going unmentioned. Let me give an example. One of Tom’s power-boxes utilized the MSI K7MASTER-S. This board came to Tom’s in pre-production form. The final board shipped with only 2 DIMM slots as well as shipping with only unbuffered RAM support. This represented A MAJOR negative impact to the board design and overall performance and capabilities, yet not only did it go unmentioned for months, but MSI actually linked a copy of the review to the boards’ web page. When we pointed this out to Tom’s Hardware it continued to go unmentioned. Tisk Tisk. Haven’t you heard of bait and switch?
6) Self-criticism. Want loyalty? Tell people when you screw up! When people make a mistake, it’s okay to say so. People do. In fact, we learn more from our mistakes than we do our successes. It’s how we evolve. If Omid is pointing out our or anyone else’s shortfalls and mistakes, I say GREAT. We need people with a strong will as well as commitment, courage; dedication and fortitude to address the hard issues. Frankly, it is something this industry has lacked for many years.
7) Too many people start off with a great idea, only to abandon it in favor of money. Mike Dell USED to produce a great industry standard PC. But he abandoned his own philosophies in favor of the all mighty dollar and at the consumers’ expense. One look at Tom’s Hardware, Tom’s web store and the 50 banner ads per page should give you a pretty good idea of what has transpired here in the past two years. Can you say “Sell out”? You can’t have it both ways, either you are unbiased and won’t except industry dollars, or you are not unbiased and do.
8) Legitimacy. If Tom’s hardware fires Omid due to the publication of editorial information that is accurate, Tom’s hardware will lose all legitimacy as open resource. No offense, but if Omid were just talking crap, I’d say bye-bye, but if Omid is talking fact and thought-generating opinion then there should be a corner office opening up somewhere. What’s good for Ed Foster should be good for ANYONE else and let’s face it, Ed Foster hasn’t had an original idea or industry insight in over 10 years.

I’d say more, but this thread is pretty long. I suspect that the 100+ flames I’ll get for writing this will give me more than enough space to say more. I look forward to reading more from Omid and also from those in all camps trying to make a case in favor or against the industry companies, publications and user groups. It’s what I live for.

Stephen Benoit, President
Stable Technologies

Member, Tom’s Advisory Panel (for what it’s worth)
Founding Member, NASBA (once again, for what it’s worth)
Chairman, Co-op Laboratories






Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'

Clap! Clap!!
Bravo!! Bravo!!

Experience speeks... I don'T think anyone can talk against what's been said. I've been thinking about it for a while. I get the impression Toms Hardware is sometimes watching it's words when it comes to specific manufacturers.

Lesson number 1: If you're an editor, don't get too close to those of whom you speek.

Omid, Plz write an article soon... I wanna read!!


<font color=green><b> I'm a CyberPhile</b> </font color=green>

I think, what would truly prove if THG is still an enthusiast site, or a paid to review and advertise one, is if the graphics department tests and tries to mod a geForce FX into a Quadro FX.
If THG really caters to us and likes to mod with things, they'll do it. If not, they'll prove they are biased by companies, while other hardware websites mod such and do fine, as they are enthusiast sites.

Come on THG, are you up for the challenge?

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden.

Good to hear from you agian.

A few more educated opinions are always welcome. There are a lot of fanboy opinions running arround this site. Sometimes perpetuated by this site.

And yes it seems that Toms has become a "paid for review" site. Not the informative enthusiast site it once was. I now read the reviews with a reserve and then check the forums to see comparisons to other sites. Which I never had to do before. I could trust Toms. But now it seems the dollar is worth more than the reputation. Kind of sad.



I aint signing nothing!!!

That was what Toms Hardware was all about in the beginning. Overclocking and the modding to increase performance. Now it is just another review site.

What is missing is the DRIVE or PASSION to create and think sideways or crosswise or out of the box.

I aint signing nothing!!!