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New build CPU:- is AM2 dual core the way?

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August 28, 2007 12:12:00 PM

A few quick questions
1) One is thinking of buying
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Proc...
Any Good at a shy over a £100? :pt1cable: 

2) Will I notice any improvements going from a single 3200 to dual 3G :??: 

3) Will my RAM from my old 939 board work with the new board that will go with my new CPU? :heink: 

4) Does everyone end up with bleeding eye balls after trying for days to decide on bits for a new rig? Or is it just me? :ouch: 
August 28, 2007 12:32:06 PM

I would go Intel's Core 2 Duo E6750 instead cause they OC so well and give better performance over the AMD 6000+ which also uses DDR2. I'm guessing you have DDR and not DDR2, if so you'll need DDR2 800 or 1066. Crucial's Ballistix DDR2 800 for $109.99 at NewEgg will get you a great OC if thats your thing.

As for a mobo the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P is only $159.99 at NewEgg or the Asus P5K Deluxe for $229.99 same place. I have to go now, my eyes are bleeding. :ouch: 
a b à CPUs
August 28, 2007 12:45:59 PM


Ok

1 ... Intel Produce better chips than any am2 at the moment.....

and they overclock better so more performance per buck

2 ... yes there will be improvements form a old amd to a new dual core

3 ... socket 949 memory is ddr (1) and am2s are ddr2 so they wont fit....

another option is to search on ebay for a socket 939 amd x2 4800 i thing the last one was a x2 5000 or even a fx62 if its affordable.

4 ... the 3200 is old hat now and wont cut it for new games however go for a new intel motherboard with 1333 bus - a p35 board from msi is about £60.
The processor is up to you and ddr2 ram is quite cheap at the mo about £30 quid for 1GB....
The AM2 will be replaced in the not too distant future and the Intel 775 will have a penryn to contend with so it is future proofed....

Thats what I would go for - MSI P35neo board and ram - 120 plus a intel 6320 for about £100 plus vat

you'll have loads over overclocking room from day one and will beat AMDs offerings when overclocked

ps the x38 chipset is out in october with pci express 2 - its backward compatable with pci express 1 if you can wait that long
nvidia also have a new chipset out around November time...

ps i found these they have some in stock

http://www.memory-express.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=17&id...(2x512KB)+L2+Cache+Socket+AM2+65W+Processor+(Boxed)&utm_name=AMD+Athlon+64+X2+Dual-Core+5000++2.6GHz+1024KB+(2x512KB)+L2+Cache+Socket+AM2+65W+Processor+(Boxed)&rndstr=2007-0821-463

will run latest games and saves changing board for a year or so

all the best -

hellboy
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August 28, 2007 12:48:20 PM

Answers to your Questions:

1)AMD 6000+ is a very good CPU for the Money and will handle any demanding tasks like gaming.

2)You will see a difference especially for Multicore optimised games and encoding. I find general performance in windows much smoother with Dual Core.

3) No you will need DDR-2 Ram
August 28, 2007 1:37:07 PM

Hellboy said:
Ok

1 ... Intel Produce better chips than any am2 at the moment....

The AM2 will be replaced in the not too distant future and the Intel 775 will have a penryn to contend with so it is future proofed....



hahaha oh wow

1. Then how come a 4200+ beats the pentium dual core at the same price range?

2. AM2+ CPUs will be backwards compatable with current AM2 mobos
August 28, 2007 1:49:41 PM

AMD is best price/perf, but thats because they suck so badly compared to C2D that they dropped thier prices through the floor. Thats the only way they could sell any chips beyond the AMD fanboi base that will buy AMD regardless of how badly they suck compared to C2D. AMD dropped prices basically to cost, just so they could maintain some semblance of the market share, which Intel took from AMD like virginity on promnight!

AM2 is a dead socket. AMD is not designing any new generations for it. Thier new chips, that will only be as good as last years intels chip, will require a new motherboard. And intel IS still designing a new generation of chips based on 775. Intel wont switch sockets until late 2008.

Intel FTW!!! When AMD has the best chip and Intel blows I will be sporting an AMD logo at that time, and ONLY at that time.
August 28, 2007 2:19:53 PM

The E2160 when fully optimized with an OC will beat any AMD CPU fully optimized with an OC. The E2160 sells for about $95. Any more than that on an AMD CPU at this point makes no sense unless you are unwilling to OC or are buying a Retail system with a locked BIOS.

However, on an enthusiast website, you will find that OCing is highly recommended to get the best bang for your buck. If you have money to burn, go visit AlienWare :>
a b à CPUs
August 28, 2007 2:51:26 PM

Fanboi rubbish aside the AM2 socket will support the new quad cores and given the mobo / X2 combination is cheap I'd recommend a 6000+ and try to get a top model mobo (one that mentions being AM2+ if possible).

Yes the Intel's OC well but if you want a stable system and are not into all of the wankfest associated with overclocking then an X2 system is more than enough for what you want.

Stick a decent high end graphics card in it and you will be fine - thats the key for better game play. Overclock a core2 cpu all you want but if you have a **** graphics card your just a wannabe fanboi gamer.

After my watercooling beast here leaked and killed my PC recently I am not so keen on overclocking ... I have a huge box full of dead cooling systems to attest this.
August 28, 2007 3:02:50 PM

I didn't mean to start an intel AMD war lol.
Thanks to all of you tho.
i am roughly settled on

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6000+ 3.00GHz (AM2)
1x £87.99
Apollo Advance Custom Gamer-Black
1x £49.95
ASUS M2N-SLI DLX nF570 Socket AM2 Motherboard
1x £56.85
OCZ 2GB PC2-6400 Special Opps (2x1GB)
1x £54.95
160GB Seagate Barracuda 9 SATA-2
1x £23.95
Thermaltake W0141RB 450W Modular PSU
1x £44.95

I already have DVD RW drive and
GForce 7950 GT


Anyone sure the PSU can handle my spec?
Is it a viable build?
Thanks
August 28, 2007 3:30:15 PM

little_scrapper said:
AMD is best price/perf, but thats because they suck so badly compared to C2D that they dropped thier prices through the floor. Thats the only way they could sell any chips beyond the AMD fanboi base that will buy AMD regardless of how badly they suck compared to C2D. AMD dropped prices basically to cost, just so they could maintain some semblance of the market share, which Intel took from AMD like virginity on promnight!

AM2 is a dead socket. AMD is not designing any new generations for it. Thier new chips, that will only be as good as last years intels chip, will require a new motherboard. And intel IS still designing a new generation of chips based on 775. Intel wont switch sockets until late 2008.

Intel FTW!!! When AMD has the best chip and Intel blows I will be sporting an AMD logo at that time, and ONLY at that time.


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

too many intel fanboys in here :sarcastic: 

@ OP, specs look good, I doubt you'll have any power problems. The 6000+ is a great deal, only surpassed by intel by OCing which would require a more expensive mobo.
August 28, 2007 3:38:21 PM

Cheers alot. This is my first unsupervised build so I wanna get it right so when my mate gets back from hols he says good job lol. I have no plans on overclocking my main rig. My mate and i are planning our first overclock on a rig built from our leftovers.
Unfortunatly intel has lulled the public into thinking they rule all. When was the last time you saw an AMD advert with funny coloured men bouncing around? Never, AMD sells itself.
August 28, 2007 4:00:11 PM

YOU DID NOT START THE WAR!! Trust me, it has been raging for at least a few hours before you posted. :) 
August 28, 2007 6:42:26 PM

I did think about trying my hand at overclocking but at £15 quid more the Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3.00GHz comes as stable and is in stock now. Thanks for the suggestion tho the one you linked to is a 939? Which i have a 3200, but no mother board. I can't live without my Pc. It is my life and soul. I can't tell you how annoying it is to be using my misses' comp which is all set to her needs and hasn't a single game installed as she doesn't want me to be able to hog her comp. Plus I think she enjoys turfing me off when i'm in the middle of something, sorta gives her a power trip lol.
Its also the centre of my design work, am looking forward to the speed up of working in PSP and DreamWeaver.
This time I will ensure I turn off the PSU before plugging it in... NEVER will I fall victim to lazyness.
Thanks for everyones support and advice, this is a propper helpfull forum. Big up tom's forum :hello: 
August 28, 2007 6:54:53 PM

ComputersMakeMeIll said:
A few quick questions
1) One is thinking of buying
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Proc...
Any Good at a shy over a £100? :pt1cable: 

2) Will I notice any improvements going from a single 3200 to dual 3G :??: 

3) Will my RAM from my old 939 board work with the new board that will go with my new CPU? :heink: 

4) Does everyone end up with bleeding eye balls after trying for days to decide on bits for a new rig? Or is it just me? :ouch: 

1) Not to bad but I would suggest an X2 4000+ Brisbane. They are easily OC'ed to 2.8~3GHz for just $63.

2) You will not notice much improvement and you would be better off going for a quad core Intel or waiting for a quad core AMD.

3) No, I wouldn't suggest any AM2 that use DDR400. I suggest you use your old system as a file server or a wife/girl friends PC. Keep them off your new rig.

4) You shouldn't have to look for days if you have taken the time to define what the PC is for. If this PC is for games then get a good GPU 8800/2900 and a low end CPU X2 4000+/E4300. If its a work PC then get a quad with a cheap GPU. After you know what CPU and GPU you need then find a good mobo for the CPU. Note the memory voltage the mobo will work with and get the needed memory. Next note the amps your GPU needs and buy a PSU able to meet that amp plus 4. Over 4~6 years of heavy load a PSU can loss 4 amps due to a less ability to keep cool. Finally buy a case to fit the mobo, HD, and dvd drive. Find these parts that have good user ratings from you supplier. The user ratings will tell you which company's sale quality produces and those with junk. This doesn't mean you want get a lemon but at least you have done your best to limit your parts comming DOA.
August 28, 2007 7:22:29 PM

To be fair turboflame, there are several Intel's that at stock speeds are faster than the 6000+ without the need of an OC and @ around $120 for a decent motherboard (its what I paid for mine) the cost is not to high in the mobo area as so many make it seem. Some are slightly more expensive and some are quite a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I am not a believer in price/performance ratio is everything. It is a good thing, but when the money is there I strongly believe in getting whatever the fastest processor you can get is. Just a few examples of stock Intel's that would be preferable to the 6000+ are the E6600, E6700, E6750, E6850, and Q6600. Please do not try to argue this with price/performance ratio because I just don't care. You have to know that those are better processors aside from the E6600, which is quite on par with the 6000+.

@ the OP...the system looks to be fine and you should see a big difference.

Best,

3Ball
August 28, 2007 8:49:01 PM

Thanks 3 Ball. I have placed the order and am now just waiting fo them to dispatch it thurs:-)
elbert, If I had linked this thread to my original problem of my 939 board being fried when I plugged in PSU with it turned on then things would be clearer but I have all the old bits, just no board.

everywhere lists 939, they are either not in stock, or stupid price for old hat. Since my mother board was fried I was only looking for a replacement, thats why i have been looking for days and believe me the peeps on the forum were stars yet all that tried to help failed as they just arn't selling 939s anymore. Feel free to check

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/244513-12-motherboa...
to see the difficulties everyone found.

I have already got my 7950 GT card and to be honest I dont want to buy a new one since I only got it on 04/05/07 when my 6600 developed a compatability problem with my board, the same thing happened literally a week later to my mates identical rig. It wasnt untill we both sent our cards back that they said they didnt know why, but they would no longer work on our boards (YA Scan technical support) so I had to take a chunk out of my student loan to buy a new card. The 7950 GT seemed a good choice for less than £130. especially when the Geforce 7900GT 256MB PCI-E is still going for £136 and mines got 512MB.
Check out the performance diff,
http://www23.tomshardware.com/charts16/710-712-275.png

I know there are cards that perform better, but these are also expensive.

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Graphics+Card...

I don't want to over clock. I want a stable system till I finish uni and I have money coming in. This is gaming on a student budget. I can't afford current quad cores nor can I wait a day, no a second longer to get my comp back up and running so waiting a month for an AMD quad or AMD+2 is out of the question.

in 4 to 6 years I should have a completely new rig. This new pc will be nothing more than an expensive door stop or something for the kids to play on.

Don't assume this is my only thread/ problem I shouldnt have to list my life story, I wanted CPU advice (hence CPU section) not Pc build. To assume makes an *** out of both u and me. Not to tell an old hat the way of the forum but its best to just answer the question in hand.

Thanks again for everyones advice
August 28, 2007 10:25:16 PM

3Ball said:
Just a few examples of stock Intel's that would be preferable to the 6000+ are the E6600, E6700, E6750, E6850, and Q6600. Please do not try to argue this with price/performance ratio because I just don't care. You have to know that those are better processors aside from the E6600, which is quite on par with the 6000+.

3Ball


I agree completely, the E6700, E6750, E6850, and Q6600 all beat the 6000+, however they also cost more, if the OP wants to spend the cash then he should definitely go for it.

As for the mobo situation, you could get a very decent AMD board for around $70 (mine was $60), while as you say a decent Intel board for OCing is in the >$100 range. Again some people should go the Intel route if they don't mind the extra price.
a b à CPUs
August 29, 2007 10:03:08 AM

Buying a better AM2+ board is advised so you can drop in a quad core Agena cpu when they become available.

Buying a good quality mobo is usually money well spent.

I only usually buy ASUS, ABIT, or MSI ... that's just my choice tho so please yourself.

If you get a SLI mobo I am sure you could pickup a second NVidia card like yours really cheap now ... the 7950GT is a good card.

That should improve your graphics performance far cheaper than getting an 8800 ... and having a 7850gt left over to sell.

Good luck with it all.
August 29, 2007 11:06:47 AM

You didn't state what you intend to use your computer for. The 6000+ is a good CPU but you're going to have to replace your motherboard and you will definitely not be able to re-use your RAM. For minimal cost you could probably drop a dual core S939 4200+ into your existing board and get significant perfomance increase compared to your single core 3200 - certainly enough to keep you going for another 12-18 months during which time the CPU landscape may change a lot. I'm running an "old" AMD 400+ San Diego and while it may not be the latest state of the art chip its more than fast enough to run any games I play at 1280x1024 with all the eye candy turned up. You could then spend the money you save not buying a new MB & RAM on a good graphics card.
August 29, 2007 11:16:00 AM

Just read that you fried your S939 motherboard in which case ignore everything I just wrote above. You will find the 6000+ more than fast enough for your needs - it compares with the E6600 very well both perfomance and price wise. AMD are bringing out AM2 motherboards but unless you're prepared to wait a couple of months for prices to drop I personally wouldn't sweat that issue too much because it will probably be at least 3 years before you feel the need to upgrade again by which time you won't be wanting to buy what at that time will be 2 year old technology.
August 29, 2007 11:16:42 AM

Meant to say AM2+ motherboards
August 29, 2007 11:57:36 AM

ComputersMakeMeIll said:
Thanks 3 Ball. I have placed the order and am now just waiting fo them to dispatch it thurs:-)
elbert, If I had linked this thread to my original problem of my 939 board being fried when I plugged in PSU with it turned on then things would be clearer but I have all the old bits, just no board.

everywhere lists 939, they are either not in stock, or stupid price for old hat. Since my mother board was fried I was only looking for a replacement, thats why i have been looking for days and believe me the peeps on the forum were stars yet all that tried to help failed as they just arn't selling 939s anymore. Feel free to check

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/244513-12-motherboa...
to see the difficulties everyone found.

I have already got my 7950 GT card and to be honest I dont want to buy a new one since I only got it on 04/05/07 when my 6600 developed a compatability problem with my board, the same thing happened literally a week later to my mates identical rig. It wasnt untill we both sent our cards back that they said they didnt know why, but they would no longer work on our boards (YA Scan technical support) so I had to take a chunk out of my student loan to buy a new card. The 7950 GT seemed a good choice for less than £130. especially when the Geforce 7900GT 256MB PCI-E is still going for £136 and mines got 512MB.
Check out the performance diff,
http://www23.tomshardware.com/charts16/710-712-275.png

I know there are cards that perform better, but these are also expensive.

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Graphics+Card...

I don't want to over clock. I want a stable system till I finish uni and I have money coming in. This is gaming on a student budget. I can't afford current quad cores nor can I wait a day, no a second longer to get my comp back up and running so waiting a month for an AMD quad or AMD+2 is out of the question.

in 4 to 6 years I should have a completely new rig. This new pc will be nothing more than an expensive door stop or something for the kids to play on.

Don't assume this is my only thread/ problem I shouldnt have to list my life story, I wanted CPU advice (hence CPU section) not Pc build. To assume makes an *** out of both u and me. Not to tell an old hat the way of the forum but its best to just answer the question in hand.

Thanks again for everyones advice

Finally some usable information and assuming that I made any assumptions other than you have a life is wrong. My first post encompassed all possibility's for each question. I guess you assumed we could read your mind. Your motherboard being fried makes no difference as you must pick your CPU, mobo it needs, and the memory that runs at a voltage the mobo works.

As I already stated X2 4000+/E4300 is the CPU's for a gaming build. OC if you wish as its about 1/3 the price of the X2 6000+ and at stock is only about 17% slower. At a reasonable resolution you may loss 1~2FPS at a savings of $105. Any more is a waste of money for a gaming build unless you get a quad for future proofing. Gaming is about the GPU and your 7950GT will do beings you are no longer with holding that information.

This is the CPU section and you need CPU, mobo, RAM, and maybe a new PSU so you should be in PC build.

P.S. heres you a list of 939 mobo's. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200022+1070907495&Configurator=&Subcategory=22&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Motherboards/Socket+939+%28AMD%29/
August 29, 2007 12:11:00 PM

Well, I'll the point is we are trying to educate you and some of the readers. If you have a small budget, it is silly to buy a AMD 6000+.

It's just way too much money for what you get. Period.

If you think you don't want to OC, you need to research OCing.
People such as Reynod, show they know nothing about OCing.

There is no need for special equipment.
There is no danger to any of your equipment.

Basically, the inexpensive CPUs are "IDENTICAL" in most aspects and can safely run at the speeds of the most expensive CPUs.

They are manufactured using identical processes.
August 29, 2007 4:44:54 PM

if you have a socket 939 and a single core athlon, just go to tigerdirect and buy an X2-3800 for $59
August 29, 2007 9:20:03 PM

starcraftfanatic said:
Whats the 5600+ cost there?
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/04/which_is_the_bes...

Costly CPU as it set me back 4 months just reading that article. May 4 information is worthless other than just charting the price drops. Supreme commander proves this article wrong today as toms has the Q6600 besting an E6850.
August 29, 2007 9:26:51 PM

Intel does offer better perfamorce, but thereis not much diffrence between fast and faster, if you go the am2 route go with a x2 5200, otherwise go with a core 2 6300 for a budget chip. I personaaly would wait a bit to see how the barcelonas are gonna perform, at that point you will get a general idea of how a am2+ cpu will perform and make a decsion as to what you prefer. Im a fanboy for bang for your buck, so trust me on this.
August 31, 2007 3:23:26 AM

Reynod said:
Fanboi rubbish aside the AM2 socket will support the new quad cores and given the mobo / X2 combination is cheap I'd recommend a 6000+ and try to get a top model mobo (one that mentions being AM2+ if possible).

Thats a valid point and a good one, however, while current AM2 mobos with recent chipsets(I forget which) will purportedly support the upcoming AM2+ chips, those upgrading current AM2 mobos to AM2+ chips will not recieve the full benefits of the AM2+ chips. If they want to get the most out their new chips, they will have to migrate to an AM2+ mobo.
Reynod said:

Yes the Intel's OC well but if you want a stable system and are not into all of the wankfest associated with overclocking then an X2 system is more than enough for what you want.

Stick a decent high end graphics card in it and you will be fine - thats the key for better game play. Overclock a core2 cpu all you want but if you have a **** graphics card your just a wannabe fanboi gamer.

After my watercooling beast here leaked and killed my PC recently I am not so keen on overclocking ... I have a huge box full of dead cooling systems to attest this.


Also a good, albeit harshly worded point (Wankfest????? please, give me a break :sarcastic:  )
I would hope at this point that everyone realizes the "enthusiasts" make up only a very small fragment of the compute pruchasing market, and Overclockers themselves are only a small fragment of the "enthusiast" market itself. Not everyone, including those who know how, overclocks. Most people seeking advice here are not overclockers, but want a systme they can assemble and set up simply and quickly. As such, pointing out the overclocking capabilities of the C2Ds is moot.

IRT pricing, times do and are changing. With the introduction of the $174 (US) E6550, Intel has closed the gap on the low end market. The gap is still there, but not nearly so big as when using the $225 E6600 as a basis for comparision. That said, AMD is still the cheaper way to enter the low end or mid range performance market. That said, the whole market has shifted to the left. Looking at just the box, $650 will buy a great AM2 box. Looking at the whole system, including monitor, mouse, keyboard & speakers etc, $1100 will do that same AMD system. But for $1100, if all you need is the box, a strong E6580 or Q6600 (which will handily outperform AMDs current best) is well within reach.
August 31, 2007 4:00:18 AM

I think the overclocking population is 2%...Hmm
August 31, 2007 7:41:41 AM

Well thanks all for the "education" My build went fine. I don't expect anyone to read my mind. Just answer the question in hand. I'm not a build enthusiast, I just like to own the battlefield
!