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GeForce 7600GT vs. GeForce 7800GS

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 11, 2007 10:56:24 AM

I've been looking at the specs for both cards, and while the 7600GT seems to have the 7800GS beat in seemingly significantly higher fillrates and clock maxes, the 7800GS has seemingly significantly higher max bandwidth; also, the 7800GS has a 256-bit memory interface while the 7600GT has a has a memory 128-bit interface.

Also, I use the word "seemingly" because I'm not so sure if the difference in fillrate/clock maxes are that high.

I used this for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_NVIDIA_Graph...

Are there other factors I'm not factoring in?

Which card do you think is better for gaming purposes?

Also, before anyone asks, my old motherboard only has an AGP slot :( 

More about : geforce 7600gt geforce 7800gs

September 11, 2007 11:29:15 AM

7800gs is slightly faster.
Related resources
September 11, 2007 3:04:44 PM

I've tested a 7600 GT vs. a 7800 GS, and they produced almost identical results, with either showing a miniscule advantage depending on the benchmark.

The 7800 GS has more overclocking potential with the 256-bit memory interface, giving you twice the bandwidth per MHz overclocked though... but at stock speeds, it's a total toss-up.

Here's the review:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/01/agp-platform-ana...
September 11, 2007 3:23:27 PM

If i'm not mistaken the 7800gs has more pixel pipelines?
September 11, 2007 3:27:52 PM

Yes, but the 7600 GT has a much higher clockspeed which equals it out.

Same on the memory front... the 7800 GS has a 256-bit interface, but the 7600 GT has amuch higher memory clockspeed on it's 128-bit interface.

The result is that performance is damn near identical at stock speeds.
September 11, 2007 3:40:20 PM

What are your system specs. In order to make a good recommendation we need some more information.
September 11, 2007 3:53:59 PM

Hey there Vicidius! I got a GeForce 7800GS OC AGP from BFG (only because my 6800 ultra broke & instead of fixing it, they just gave me the 7800). I also am still using a 5 year old PC that I bought from Walmart(AMD AntholonXP 3000+). I'm still playing the latest PC games with it and perfoms very well even with newer games like Bioshock! So go ahead, get one bro!!!!!!!!!
September 11, 2007 6:32:15 PM

Thanks for all the help so far, guys! It's really appreciated =)

Here are my system specs, let me know if there's too much info to sift through or it's not enough:

Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 1
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Computer Name NEG (Gigantes Elegantes)
User Name Chris

Motherboard:
CPU Type AMD Athlon XP, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) 3200+
Motherboard Name Asus A7V8X-LA (Kelut) (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN, IEEE-1394)
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8378A UniChrome KM400A
System Memory 1024 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type Award (06/09/04)
Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)
Communication Port ECP Printer Port (LPT1)

Display:
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE (128 MB)
3D Accelerator nVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE
Monitor HP F1703 [17" LCD] (CNCHW0Z664)

Multimedia:
Audio Adapter VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller

Storage:
IDE Controller Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller
IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller SCSI/RAID Host Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller SCSI/RAID Host Controller
Disk Drive ST3200822A (200 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/100)
Disk Drive ST3300631A (279 GB, IDE)
Optical Drive EI2845W DSM169Z SCSI CdRom Device
Optical Drive HG3537L JGB449P SCSI CdRom Device
Optical Drive HG3537L JGB449P SCSI CdRom Device
Optical Drive HG3537L JGB449P SCSI CdRom Device
Optical Drive LITE-ON DVD+RW SOHW-802S (DVD+RW:8x/4x, DVD-RW:8x/4x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Partitions:
C: (NTFS) 185862 MB (63562 MB free)
D: (FAT32) 4899 MB (634 MB free)
F: (NTFS) 286165 MB (43609 MB free)
Total Size 465.7 GB (105.3 GB free)

Input:
Keyboard HP PS2 Keyboard (2K - 3)
Mouse PS/2 Compatible Mouse

Network:
Network Adapter VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter (192.168.1.47)
Modem Agere Systems PCI Soft Modem

Peripherals:
Printer EPSON Stylus CX5400
Printer Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB2 Controller VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller


cleeve said:
I've tested a 7600 GT vs. a 7800 GS, and they produced almost identical results, with either showing a miniscule advantage depending on the benchmark.

The 7800 GS has more overclocking potential with the 256-bit memory interface, giving you twice the bandwidth per MHz overclocked though... but at stock speeds, it's a total toss-up.

Here's the review:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/01/agp-platform-ana...


Thanks for that link, it was really helpful! Although, now I'm torn between getting a GeForce or ATI X1950 PRO. What would be the best card for me to upgrade to, given my current computer specs?

Also, I'm planning on getting a 1GB stick of ram, replacing one of the 512MB sticks I have in there. Thanks!
September 11, 2007 6:56:53 PM

I would say the 7600GT, it is made on a smaller processing tech (90nm, instead of the 110nm of the 7800GS), and is cheaper. Make sure it's a DDR3 version, as I've heard there are a few DDR2 versions out there. My 7600GS overclocked like a champ (400/350 -> 607/441). The new revision makes all the difference in the world, and a 7600GT should be able to OC higher with the higher Vcore.
September 11, 2007 7:19:58 PM

An X1950 PRO isn't a terrible choice if you can't afford a system upgrade for a while. But with an AthlonXP, a system upgrade isn't a bad idea.

I'd get the 7600 GT if I were you and save the extra $$ for a future system upgrade.
a b Î Nvidia
September 11, 2007 8:40:58 PM

And if he's considering a system upgrade, what would it take to get im into a PCIe system and a cheaper PCIe video card?

I agree save the money and get the GF7600, but if it weren't for the system holding him back I'd recommend other options of course.
September 11, 2007 9:17:55 PM

Thanks for all the advice =).

I don't plan on upgrading my system for a whiiile. Like several years. Would it be worth shilling out the additional money for a X1950 PRO (since I'll be holding onto it for a long time) or should I still get the 7600 GT?
September 11, 2007 9:26:01 PM

Several years? Well good luck with that.

I don't know how much farther a single core will take you, but the X1950 PRO is the obvious choice.
September 11, 2007 9:41:28 PM

Several years? Hmmm. An AXP is pretty old right now, truly before Intel started getting its butt kicked. If your system were an Athlon 64 I could understand it has some life left in it. Either way you go, I think you'll be disappointed in performance gains of upgrading the video card long before 'several years' has elasped (if you're trying to keep up with new game releases and whatnot). If you are just planning on running last-gen games, I would say go for the 7600. If you plan on getting any games released recently or in the near future go for the X1950Pro.

Honestly, I would say that neither is the better decision. If you're willing to invest the ~$160 for the X1950Pro, I would sooner put that money toward a CPU/MB/MEM combo that will last you that couple of years+ you're looking for.

Like this:

EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 - $75 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

pqi POWER Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $34
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MSI K9VGM-V AM2 VIA K8M890 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $47
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total - $222

With this you also have upgrade options, so it'll probably last >2 years. Even if you went for a cheap Intel MB and a single-core Celeron (Conroe-L) processor, it would still be more powerful than your current Athlon XP, and would have TONS of upgrade options.
September 11, 2007 9:47:58 PM

Sorry about the double-post but I think it's worth mentioning...

What is your current power supply? The X1950 (and likely the 7600 too) will almost definitely lead to a power supply purchase with a system of that age. That could mean an additional cost we have not even breeched yet. I certainly wouldn't want to cause you to purchase something your computer can't handle.
September 11, 2007 10:49:34 PM

Oh WOW.

This is alot more help than I expected to receive, thank you so very much!

I really appreciate your suggestions =)

It's become pretty apparent that my motherboard and processor are archaic and that it's vital to get something newer. My only apprehension is whether or not I'll need to get a new case. I don't know if some of the things inside of my HP Pavilion a645c will come out, or if the there'll be room/space to replace things.

Will I likely need to buy a new case for my computer as well?

Also, my power supply is 250, I was thinking of upgrading that as well. Suggestions?

I was reading some of the feedback on the sticks of RAM you suggested, and it seems like not many people are a big fan of it.
a b Î Nvidia
September 11, 2007 11:05:29 PM

KyleSTL said:
Honestly, I would say that neither is the better decision. If you're willing to invest the ~$160 for the X1950Pro, I would sooner put that money toward a CPU/MB/MEM combo that will last you that couple of years+ you're looking for.


Yep, that's what I was eluding to with Cleeve, it's tough to recommend an entire system replacement, but with the high cost of the AGP models of these cards, and the low cost of the PCIe GF7600GT/X1650XT, after rebate I'd add the HIS X1650XT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161049, but at the very least the GF7600GT would be a great starting point like you have, and really there's more future in that build and more room for gradual upgrades, whereas adding an X1950Pro to that AthlonXP is ok for now, but really overpriced for the performance boost you wind up with compared to the great value of something a little more well rounded. and if he can sell his current unused parts for like $5 each, hey it helps make up the price difference.

Anywhoo, like the suggestion and agree with the build, especially if he can work in a Celeron on a 775 solution, that'd be perfect IMO.
a b Î Nvidia
September 11, 2007 11:37:45 PM

Vicidius said:

It's become pretty apparent that my motherboard and processor are archaic and that it's vital to get something newer. My only apprehension is whether or not I'll need to get a new case. I don't know if some of the things inside of my HP Pavilion a645c will come out, or if the there'll be room/space to replace things.


It should still have a standard ATX motherboard tray in there, it doesn't look smaller than that. You should be fine, and even if not, go with a Beige case for $10 for now, and heck if the PSU is a question get a $29 case+PSU combo, sure it's not a LianLi or Coolermaster or PCPower&Cooling, but they would be fine for the mid-range you're looking at. I can find Chieftec Cases with Generic 400-450W PSUs for that price in Toronto so if you have access in the US you should be able to do as well, sure I'd recommend better for an X1950Pro or higher, but the GF7600GT or X1650XT or even PCIe version of the GF7900GS would be fine with such a setup.

Quote:
Also, my power supply is 250, I was thinking of upgrading that as well. Suggestions?


I like FSP as cheap and powerful. you'd likely be fine with the barebones setup running something like a 350W, even their cheap $29 one on NewEgg mould be OK considering their quality;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Quote:
I was reading some of the feedback on the sticks of RAM you suggested, and it seems like not many people are a big fan of it.


I don't know about PQI and I'm a RAM snob, so I'm not a good judge, but after going through a HELL of a hassle trying to get 2 stick of Kensington top shelf SODIMMs to work on my laptop, (couldn't, now running 1+512) , I'd say go with what people say works with what you're buying because memory hassle are the worst because you can't do anything else until that's fixed and it's annoying because unlike MoBo and CPU the startup can show good memory and everything fine, yet not get past the BIOS telling you it's good (like a stick of generic ASEN RAM did on my old desktop).

IMO, go with the GEIL memory for a tiny bit more instead, I like GEIL (not as much s Corsair, OCZ, Patriot or Mushkin, but for the price, I would trust them before PQI);
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And then after that you can get ridiculous deals on things like CORSAIR XMS and OCCZ GOLD for for like $45/42.

or better yet, buy a single stick of good 1GB and then upgrade another stick later if you wanna save some money and go quality and big. Sure single channel is a little slower but game performance is more size sensitive up to 1GB than speed, and even after that they're pretty much hand in hand. But even just the 2 x 512 of stuff in that high 30 low 40 dollar range from a know entity will do you fine IMO. I like the Corsair (I just like Corsair really) for $45 due to the high frequency and lower latency with good OCability, but there's alot of nice little sticks in that area. but you have nice options from Patriot, Mushkin, OCZ and even the Kingston Value Ram stuff if you want to increase stock speed and not worry about OC.
September 12, 2007 12:32:16 AM

I made that setup simply to be a purely budget build, I would definitely follow The Ape's advice for the ram selection.

Vicidius, if you would like to throw out a budget to which you are firm, we would gladly make the best recommendations based on that budget. I don't know about everyone else, but frankly, I enjoy spec-ing out computers for other people.
September 12, 2007 1:56:38 AM

Wow, thanks for all that info, Ape! Especially about my concerns about my case and the RAM.

KyleSTL said:
I don't know about everyone else, but frankly, I enjoy spec-ing out computers for other people.


I think I'm in love :love:  .

Well since it appears I'll be upgrading most of my computer, which should hopefully last several years without need for upgrade, I think I can afford less than $300 for my total budget!
September 12, 2007 3:06:53 PM

OK, $300, a little tight with OS too, but do-able.

If you reuse the hard drives and optical drives, and the case. The motherboard I found has 2 PATA ports for up to 4 devices, so you'll be able to fill them with your current IDE hard drives and optical drives.

MSI P4M890M3-V LGA 775 VIA P4M890 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - $43
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L 1.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - $54
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

pqi POWER Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $35
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

EVGA 256-P2-N541-T2 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 - $65 after MIR ($75 before)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HIPRO HP-E4009F5WR ATX12V True 400W Power Supply - $29
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That comes to $316 before shipping

It wouldn't be blindingly fast, but it wouldn't be a deadend like your current setup.
September 12, 2007 8:35:09 PM

KyleSTL said:
OK, $300, a little tight with OS too, but do-able.

If you reuse the hard drives and optical drives, and the case. The motherboard I found has 2 PATA ports for up to 4 devices, so you'll be able to fill them with your current IDE hard drives and optical drives.

MSI P4M890M3-V LGA 775 VIA P4M890 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - $43
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L 1.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - $54
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

pqi POWER Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $35
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

EVGA 256-P2-N541-T2 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 - $65 after MIR ($75 before)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HIPRO HP-E4009F5WR ATX12V True 400W Power Supply - $29
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That comes to $316 before shipping

It wouldn't be blindingly fast, but it wouldn't be a deadend like your current setup.


Wow thanks, that all looks pretty economical, although I'm still having concerns about some of the negative feedback that some of the items got.

Also, do I really need to buy Windows XP again? That $90 looks to put a huge dent in my budget. If I didn't need to buy it again, how would your suggestion of products differ?
September 12, 2007 8:49:23 PM

Oh, well, that's another story, I'll spec another one out tonight. Anyone else gonna offer some good builds for this guy?
September 13, 2007 12:50:07 AM

Well if you wan't an amd based system this is it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186126
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085
Just so you know foxconn is a decent motherboard manufacturer i've owned some foxconn motherboards and they where great value and quality.
And the 8500gt i recommended is a decent card it's a little faster then the 7600gt.
And if you want a intel based system
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116036
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085
The amd system costs 307$ but you can get a 15$ rebate so it's going to cost 99$.
And the intel system costs 324$ and again you can get the 15$ rebate.
It's your choice both system are pretty decent performers you can play bioshock on both systems with good video quality.
September 13, 2007 12:59:55 AM

Sorry for the double post but i was reffering to a 15$ rebate on the video card.
September 13, 2007 1:01:16 AM

Why can't i edit the posts it was a 8600gt card, 3 post because i can't edit my first one.
September 13, 2007 1:28:27 AM

You only have to buy XP again if you have an OEM copy (came with the machine) Although if you have a retail copy, no.
http://www.itpb.ucla.edu/Documents/2001/Nov/OperatingSy... If you want to know about OEM licensing. An upgrade to the motherboard is considered to result in a new machine according to Microsoft, unless that upgrade took place due to defective hardware.
September 13, 2007 3:53:23 AM

cristip60 said:
Well if you wan't an amd based system this is it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186126
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085
Just so you know foxconn is a decent motherboard manufacturer i've owned some foxconn motherboards and they where great value and quality.
And the 8500gt i recommended is a decent card it's a little faster then the 7600gt.
And if you want a intel based system
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116036
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085
The amd system costs 307$ but you can get a 15$ rebate so it's going to cost 99$.
And the intel system costs 324$ and again you can get the 15$ rebate.
It's your choice both system are pretty decent performers you can play bioshock on both systems with good video quality.


Wow, that system setup looks really good. What are the pros and cons of a AMD vs. Intel system?

F34R1355 said:
You only have to buy XP again if you have an OEM copy (came with the machine) Although if you have a retail copy, no.
http://www.itpb.ucla.edu/Documents/2001/Nov/OperatingSy... If you want to know about OEM licensing. An upgrade to the motherboard is considered to result in a new machine according to Microsoft, unless that upgrade took place due to defective hardware.


Ugh, this sounds like it'll be a huge pain in the ***. What exacty will I have to do to reinstall XP, will it involve backing up my personal files and such?

I'm not very experienced with things like this, I was hoping to just plug some things in and install a few drivers lol.
September 13, 2007 11:51:35 AM

They are both decent systems you could play bioshock on medium to high settings with 1024x768 res.
The only advantage that the intel based one has is that that core 2 duo is a good overclocker. It's your choice i would say they have almost the same performance.
By the way the graphics card is a 8600gt not a 8500gt it was just a typo.
September 14, 2007 6:03:15 AM

cristip60 said:
They are both decent systems you could play bioshock on medium to high settings with 1024x768 res.
The only advantage that the intel based one has is that that core 2 duo is a good overclocker. It's your choice i would say they have almost the same performance.
By the way the graphics card is a 8600gt not a 8500gt it was just a typo.


Thanks alot for your help, I appreciate it! I think I'm going to go with your AMD system suggestion, if no one else has anymore insight to offer.

Also, could anyone direct me to some information about installing a new motherboard? It sounds like I'll need to be doing some work with the BIOS or something, also reinstalling my OS. Any advice/information would be greatly appreciated!

Also, if anyone has anymore suggestions for what I should buy to upgrade my computer, that'd be great too =)
September 14, 2007 1:44:50 PM

that MB he spec'd out for you does not have 2 PATA connectors, so you could only use 2 of your old hard drives/optical drives. You need a MB with 2 connectors to connect up to 4 devices.
September 14, 2007 2:11:52 PM

OK, I think with your budget you should go with AMD. Here's a good system for a good price.

Foxconn K8M890M2MB-RS2H AM2 VIA K8M890 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $56
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory - $36
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

COOLMAX M-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CSA, TUV, FCC - $30 after MIR ($40 before)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SAPPHIRE 100164DDR2L Radeon X1650PRO 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card - $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total - $258 (after MIR and before shipping and operating system)

Now, an explanation of my choices. I went with the power supply because it has a slightly higher wattage and also has a connector for 6-pin PCI-E video cards (when the time comes). The processor is obvious, cheap, powerful, etc. I went with 2 x 512 because the ram will run in dual channel mode, which doubles your memory bandwidth. I would avoid doing 1 x 1GB because if you upgrade to 2GB you might not be able to run dual channel (unless you get the exact same ram down the road and plug it into the other slot), but that's just my opinion I'm sure there are others out there who would adamantly disagree with me. And the ram is Corsair, definitely a good name. I went with the X1650Pro because it egdes out the 7600GS slightly on the charts and also is a little cheaper. The motherboard is Foxconn (one of the biggest, if not the biggest microelectronics companies in the world), and it has 2 ATA connectors so that you can use all your current drives.

Hope this is helpful. Let me know what you think. I whole-heartedly believe you'll need an OS. I would say if you're willing to gamble, order it and try and see if the OS you currently have will load, otherwise, if it does load, great, if not order a new one. I would definitely say to stick with XP right now. OS migratation doesn't normally go that well, I would say put all your files on one drive (if they fit) and do a fresh install of XP on the other. Fresh installs feel great, it'll be a pain in the ass to load all your programs and get all your settings back in line, but it'll be worth it, and think, you'll have this computer for a while, even if it gets upgraded.
September 14, 2007 2:40:31 PM

Kyle,

Not a bad build.
If you look around you can get 2x1gb DDR2-800 for just under $60 after rebate. If going AMD, the faster ram is very important. The price per meg is actually less once you go larger and he could likely use the memory now anyway.

September 14, 2007 2:53:55 PM

Yes but he will not feel the lack of dual channel that much, and i don't think he has more then 1 hdd and 1 optical drive, so i would stick to the foxconn i recommended, and he could by the second stick of ram very soon it's just 34$ it's not that expensive, i'm not doing a competition here but system that you configured kyle has to many compromises.
And a x1650pro is way to weak a 8600gt is much better.
September 14, 2007 3:10:20 PM

2 HDDs -
Disk Drive ST3200822A (200 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/100)
Disk Drive ST3300631A (279 GB, IDE)

2 Opticals -
Optical Drive EI2845W DSM169Z SCSI CdRom Device
Optical Drive HG3537L JGB449P SCSI CdRom Device

Although, I'm confused because they are listed as SCSI, hmmm. Vicidius, please verify that the drives have a 40-pin ATA connector, otherwise we'll have to change the plan slightly.

For the faster ram (PC2 6400) go for this:

A-DATA 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And if you would like to spend a bit more and get 2GB of faster ram, go for this:

A-DATA Value Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The faster ram would up the price to $262 (which I think is definitely worth it)

The fast, higher capacity ram would bring it to $292 (which is still within budget). You choice, personally I would spend the premium for the 2GB.
September 14, 2007 3:14:50 PM

Or if you wanted to go the 1 x 1GB route, here's a good one:

A-DATA Value Series 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - $33
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

It's actually $3 cheaper than the 2 x 512MB.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the single-channel, dual-channel debate?
September 14, 2007 8:56:13 PM

Thanks for the new system setup, Kyle! I especially appreciate your reasoning and logic in choosing the hardware that you did =)

I used EVEREST Home Edition to find out the specifics of my computer. I had some virtual drives mounted, so that might've been why it said I had a few more drives than I actually have. Should I remove those virtual drives temporarily and create a report file of System Summary only, Hardware-related pages, Benchmark pages, or of all the pages?

Also, would it be easier to sift through the report in plain text or HTML?

cristip60 said:
Yes but he will not feel the lack of dual channel that much, and i don't think he has more then 1 hdd and 1 optical drive, so i would stick to the foxconn i recommended, and he could by the second stick of ram very soon it's just 34$ it's not that expensive, i'm not doing a competition here but system that you configured kyle has to many compromises.
And a x1650pro is way to weak a 8600gt is much better.


What sort of compromises did Kyle make in his choices of software? Was this comment in reference to his choice of graphics card and/or RAM (This area seems to be a point of contention)?
September 14, 2007 9:11:59 PM

No report neccessary, as long as you're sure the two cd/dvd drives you have are in fact ATA, not SCSI. If they are SCSI, let us know.

I think he was saying the overall build was a compromise, overall, I agree. The first build I spec'd was trying to stay under 300 with an OS included. It was marginal at best. My second build (with the later recommendation to go to 2GB of ram) is a good build. I also think it's best to stay with a 1 generation old middle-of-the-line card instead of getting a middle current-gen card for a much greater premium. Look at all the forums, no one seems to like the 8600GT/GTS. I'm just going off of what other's have said and what the charts show. They all seem to point to the 8600 series being a bust, and it doesn't fill the gap between entry-level and high-end cards (8500 -> 8800).
September 14, 2007 10:36:54 PM

The 8600gt has come a long way from when it was first released but if he really doesn't want a 8600gt he could buy this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161092 it's 130$ after rebate but it's worth it. And i really think he should buy 1 gb stick now at in a few weeks another it's only 34$.
September 15, 2007 12:08:45 AM

KyleSTL said:
No report neccessary, as long as you're sure the two cd/dvd drives you have are in fact ATA, not SCSI. If they are SCSI, let us know.

I think he was saying the overall build was a compromise, overall, I agree. The first build I spec'd was trying to stay under 300 with an OS included. It was marginal at best. My second build (with the later recommendation to go to 2GB of ram) is a good build. I also think it's best to stay with a 1 generation old middle-of-the-line card instead of getting a middle current-gen card for a much greater premium. Look at all the forums, no one seems to like the 8600GT/GTS. I'm just going off of what other's have said and what the charts show. They all seem to point to the 8600 series being a bust, and it doesn't fill the gap between entry-level and high-end cards (8500 -> 8800).

Thank you very much for all your help =). I unmounted all the virtual drives and made a full system report using EVEREST and uploaded it to a filesharing service. I'm not sure if my drives are exactly what I said they were, and if you wouldn't mind, I'd like some confirmation =).

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5H0WMOYB

So far, I'm thinking of purchasing the following:
Quote:
Foxconn K8M890M2MB-RS2H AM2 VIA K8M890 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $56
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

A-DATA Value Series 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - $33
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

COOLMAX M-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CSA, TUV, FCC - $30 after MIR ($40 before)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That's $185 so far, $222 if I get
Quote:
A-DATA Value Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

instead of the single 1GB stick of RAM.


What would be better for my gaming purposes, 1GB of RAM and a higher-end graphics card, or 2GB of RAM and a lower-end graphics card?

Also, what's the difference between GDDR and DDR on a graphics card? Would it be worth paying more money to get a card with DDR3/GDDR3 over one with DDR2/GDDR2 in my situation/setup?
September 15, 2007 3:14:04 AM

1GB and a higher GPU, hands down, but I would not go with a 8600 series card. Go for a 7900, 7950, or X1950 card for the same price with better performance. Video memory bandwidth plays a pretty significant role in game play and framerates. Definitely go with something that has DDR3 if it's in your price range. Don't be temped to buy a 7600GS or X1650 with 512MB, the extra capacity doesn't mean much with those models, they're simply a gimick to get you to pay a premium for more memory on the video card.

If your budget is such that you must choose between 2GB ram and a higher video card, go for the video card.

I wasn't able to see the link to the picture you posted.
September 15, 2007 4:46:29 AM

KyleSTL said:
1GB and a higher GPU, hands down, but I would not go with a 8600 series card. Go for a 7900, 7950, or X1950 card for the same price with better performance. Video memory bandwidth plays a pretty significant role in game play and framerates. Definitely go with something that has DDR3 if it's in your price range. Don't be temped to buy a 7600GS or X1650 with 512MB, the extra capacity doesn't mean much with those models, they're simply a gimick to get you to pay a premium for more memory on the video card.

If your budget is such that you must choose between 2GB ram and a higher video card, go for the video card.

I wasn't able to see the link to the picture you posted.


Alright, thanks. That all sounds like good advice =). I'll be going with one stick of RAM then.

I uploaded the full system report here, hopefully it'll be accessible now:

http://vicidius.myfreewebhost.org/Report.htm

I'm putting it up just in case there was something I didn't mention and might affect my choices in hardware.

Anyone else have any other/differing suggestions for a good GPU under or around $100?
September 15, 2007 3:43:24 PM

This is a good card <$100 from a great manufacturer. They also have a step up program to get a better card later with a discount of the current card's value.

EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - $75 (after MIR) ($90 before)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I also saw a couple of X1650XT cards on newegg for less than $100, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra cost and if they'll even have better performance. Someone else on the forum with have to chime in with more info on that. Also check the best cards for the money article to see what Tom's opinion is.
September 15, 2007 6:17:33 PM

I am still recommending the 8600gt instead of the 7600gt, the 8600gt is just a little better, and yes a x1650xt is just a liitle faster then a 7600gt.
September 15, 2007 9:01:59 PM

Alright, I've concluded that I'll be getting the following GPU:

Quote:
EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


I'm fairly used to playing fairly graphic-intensive games on very very low resolutions in order to get playable FPS, so I think I can deal with the varying performances differences between the 7600GT/1650XT/8600GT/etc. At least now I'll be able to play games at 800x600 for the first time in a while, and also enjoy the cinematic gameplay graphics I always read about =).

I'm still having some thoughts about the motherboard, though:
Quote:
Foxconn K8M890M2MB-RS2H AM2 VIA K8M890 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


There was some discussion earlier as to whether or not the motherboard suggested had enough connectors/ports/pins/something for all of my current devices. Was there ever any confirmation that this motherboard was sufficient?


I really appreciate everyone's input and advice. This could've been a much more expensive and disappointing venture had you guys not stepped in and helped a clueless fellow out =).
September 16, 2007 5:00:07 AM

Short answer for the compatability of the drives, yes.

The motherboard will definintely support your two hard drives and the Lite-On drive, and one more device aswell. As for the other optical drive, I'm not sure what it is, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it is PATA (IDE) also. If that is the case, that drive can be the fourth and the motherboard will definitely support it.

I think you'll be surprised how much power that configuration has. You'll certainly be able to turn on some eye candy for a lot of titles, or turn up the resolution to at least 1280x1024. Look at my configuration, with a much less powerful system I get 40 fps at 1024x768 with most eye candy on with Need For Speed Carbon (not that it's very graphically intensive or anything).

If there are any other comments or concerns, please let me know.
September 19, 2007 3:47:51 AM

Thanks for all the help, Kyle! I'll be ordering parts you recommended very soon, within the week most likely. I probably should've ordered earlier though, as I'll miss that nice $20 rebate on the motherboard.

Thanks for everything, I'll let you all know how it all pans out when everything arrives here and I attempt to install everything =)
a b } Memory
September 19, 2007 4:41:43 AM

Vicidius said:
Oh WOW.

This is alot more help than I expected to receive, thank you so very much!

I really appreciate your suggestions =)

It's become pretty apparent that my motherboard and processor are archaic and that it's vital to get something newer. My only apprehension is whether or not I'll need to get a new case. I don't know if some of the things inside of my HP Pavilion a645c will come out, or if the there'll be room/space to replace things.

Will I likely need to buy a new case for my computer as well?

Also, my power supply is 250, I was thinking of upgrading that as well. Suggestions?

I was reading some of the feedback on the sticks of RAM you suggested, and it seems like not many people are a big fan of it.

I'm betting that his OS is OEM and can't be moved over to the new setup. If it's proprietary (like I think it is) than it will only work on the existing setup that he has. Not 100% on that, but that has been my experience with Dell/HP/Gateway systems to date.
a b } Memory
September 19, 2007 5:19:33 AM

If your wanting to use a new case than you might look at this:
Athenatech A416BS.400 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 2.01v 400W (20+4P, Dual +12V, 2 x SATA Connectors) Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...
$51 shipped!!

I have had really good luck with Athenatech. I have currently only built 2 systems with them, but you can't complain too much in this price range. A case and a PSU (with 25A on the 12v rails!!!) for the price isn't too bad. I'm not saying that they are the best, but I've had good luck with them. I don't know how well the coolmax PSU's do, so I'm not going to comment on them. I'm only putting this out there for consideration for a budget build. The PSU doesn't have the 6 pin PCI-e power connector, but most budget systems don't require that much power. If he decides later to put in a better video card, than he'll have to upgrade the PSU, which might be the case with the coolmax PSU. Not saying that the coolmax isn't better, but just throwing it out there for speculation.

My 2cp's
!