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Are the VGA charts EVER going to be updated??

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 12, 2007 10:01:23 AM

Hey!

It wasn't untill I was looking at the VGA charts today that I learned the following things:

1. AMD has done an awesome job increasing performance through driver updates lately.
2. Tomshardware.com is blatantly MISinforming customers in favor of nvidia because of the extreme slacking that is going on in updating the VGA charts.

Why is this task low priority??
The VGA charts mean nothing at this point.
I don't understand why the biggest hardware site gets away with this kind of slacking.

More about : vga charts updated

September 12, 2007 10:49:16 AM

Because the admins at Tom's Hardware sit around eating poos all day :kaola: 
September 12, 2007 10:54:46 AM

Well I understand that they are very busy with everything that is going on in hardwareworld, I just don't understand why driver updates and the performance increases they result in get no attention whatsoever at Tomshardware.
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a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2007 11:08:21 AM

Therre may be a article coming on that. But I agree, its time.
September 12, 2007 11:50:11 AM

I think if their going to do one it will be when the 7.9 cats are released
off topic i remember back 2 years ago that every 2-3 days there would be a new interesting article but now it seems to have slipped to every 1-2 weeks at best.
September 12, 2007 12:20:50 PM

I feel the same way, I have not even looked at the main website of tomshardware.com for nearly two months now. To me it looks amateurish and has had a very low amount of decent well update content, but then again I think the reason I don’t look anymore is mostly to do with the former rather than the latter. I don’t like the new forum layout and I don’t like the main page, they still need a lot of tweaking and the updates to the site should be made constantly so we can see what’s happening not saving them all up leaving the user base wondering when things will get fixed or if they will be getting fixed at all.

That’s what they do in beta programming stage they make lots of small changes very frequently till they are left with what is as close to perfection as can be, this forum is still in beta and the last update I can remember was well over 2 weeks ago. Guess they did not have enough manpower for a smooth overhaul of the site.

Anyway thats my rant over, sorry for making you read it.
September 12, 2007 12:21:12 PM

I understand that Testing thorough a VC with all the tests is a time consuming job, but hey, Tom's are the best.
Come on guys, you havent updated that charts form MONTHS. Even if this takes a lot of time you can still post updates every month, or every major driver update (AMD update their drivers every month, nVidia more rarely).

I have a 2600XT DDR3 and if I am looking your charts right now it totaly sux, but the truth is its WAY much better than 8600GT.

Your charts are really misguiding as Jakc said.

VC market is fast shifting market, not only with new VC releases but new game releases and new driver releases.

Also I really think you should update the games in the charts a little bit. I dont really see any 2007 game in there. What to say about the newest ones.

Pull your **** together and do and update fast!
:p 
a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2007 5:39:46 PM

I think in all honesty, Toms is the best. Theres still as many articles as ever, its just more about other things, like phones, cars etc. Some of these things werent as important a few years ago as they are now, plus, its been a slow period for new products. I, like the rest of you, would like to see more hardware for computer articles. I think they just want to expand their readership. What Id like, is to expand their article count, and still have alot of hardware stories.
September 12, 2007 5:50:08 PM

Tom used to write some awesome articles now it's owned by a corporation who wants money.
September 12, 2007 7:27:37 PM

I feel the same way. I used to see updates more frequently.

"Tom used to write some awesome articles now it's owned by a corporation who wants money." marvelous211

I was disappointed when I saw the 1950PRO256mb and not the 512mb version. Same with the X1950XT... I'd like to see more diversity. ANYWAYS that's the reason that I registered with the forumz. To get the straight facts from people that own the cards. Just look at the CPU's used to do the VGA tests.
I also want to share my own knowledge of the hardware I have or have used. PLUS I'm looking for like minded individuals to chat with. NOT argue just chat/laugh etc.
September 12, 2007 8:02:43 PM

It all boils down to money...
how much more revenue will they get by doing an update to their VGA charts.
If it cost them $5000 to do it and revenue will only be $4000 then what is the point.
It has stopped being a service to the community and become a money grabbing company.
but that is probably the way it will go for all websites that sell out to the corporations.
September 12, 2007 9:15:56 PM

yup
September 12, 2007 9:29:18 PM

when I 1st started reading Tom's stuff, I thought it was some guy who wanted to share info. It was so good that advertising got in the way of providing info. I had a feeling it was coming since those VGA charts are awesome... THE IDEA ANYWAYS. now who do we go to for the info? X-bit, anandtech, firingsquad??? TOM'S FORUMZ??? for UPDATED INFO??????????
for some reason I check every day to see if the charts have been updated. seems like Nvidia pays more for advertising than ATi.
September 12, 2007 10:33:12 PM

I know this is about the VGA charts, but it has been months since the Western Digital PMR hard drives came out. They added the 750gb drive to the charts and never added the rest. The problem is that the 500gb and under drives are NOT PMR meaning they run slower. Good thing I looked elsewhere for my info.
September 13, 2007 8:21:16 AM

Kinda of ironic, how they spend loads of time making an article explaining the relations between the game industry and GPU makers, but ignore the most important result of these relationships blatantly, driver updates that make games run faster.
a b U Graphics card
September 13, 2007 8:46:52 AM

Oi, guys, get off your butts and work! Bake me a pie!
September 13, 2007 9:00:52 AM

The only use of toms hardware for me is the forums and the charts...And they too aren't updated often unfortunately....If you want hardware reviews and news you really have no choice but to find other sites....Toms hardware has unfortunately joined the dark side =(...and has for some time.

I mean heck..look at the news articles..

"Canadian government concerned about Google 'Street View' maps"

"Apple movie rentals coming soon"

"Sun to pre-install Windows on its servers"

"L'Oreal sues eBay over counterfeit perfume sales"

I mean come on...so cheese ball. Especially the last one....Went from a very professional and admired hardware review site to the Fox news network....The A material is gone and won't be back. But fortunately there are numerous other sites and when combined in a package they pretty much get you all the hardware news goodies.
a b U Graphics card
September 13, 2007 9:07:05 AM

Just make sure you are careful which other sites you mention :sarcastic: 
September 13, 2007 9:30:10 AM

a b U Graphics card
September 13, 2007 11:35:22 AM

I would have to agree that the VGA charts are severely outdated and that good articles here at tom's have significantly dropped. In the past, I saw about 3 articles were posted in just one day, now you're lucky if there's even one.

Though I would have to look at this from their perspective, testing out even the 3 new ati cards would take a lot of time. Imagine testing out 46 different settings, and running each setting for at least 3 times and then computing the average. That's already 138 runs! And with ati releasing drivers now and again, it'd be kinda frustrating as you'd have to redo all those tests to get accurate data.

But I do see the point of other people, the charts are very misleading and at least an article about the new drivers should be done.
September 13, 2007 8:11:30 PM

maybe if they updated the charts every 2-3 months, then it would still be ok, but when were they last done?
September 14, 2007 1:29:51 AM

Yes... PLEASE UPDATE!

THANK YOU
September 14, 2007 5:06:35 PM

thats the message!
September 14, 2007 5:57:55 PM

They are updated.
Take a second look.
Click on the VGA chart link, and on the top right of the page there is a box with 'more charts': including quad and dual vga, etc.
Maybe we should all take a good look, do our own work and then criticize if necessary...the link for sli:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html

come on people less criticism!
a b U Graphics card
September 15, 2007 12:21:52 AM

Um those charts were added ages ago, and they also need to be updated :sarcastic: 
September 25, 2007 6:46:46 PM

ya!

Plus they were not complete.
If all I had to do all day was test hardware...
September 25, 2007 6:48:43 PM

... as it is, right now I'm baking a pie for the Forum Kitty.
September 25, 2007 6:49:45 PM

LOL No offense. I just thought that was funny.
September 26, 2007 2:22:21 AM

Well, I'd love to see what they look like now...as I do own an HD 2600XT DDR4 256MB version, running Catalyst 7.9 ...

If that isn't taken into account on this coming month's "Best cards" article, I'll be pissed at the public disservice this site is doing.

Not going to say anything, though, because I tend to get flamed if I dare claim the card is anything other than crap...

j/k
September 26, 2007 3:33:53 AM

If all they care about is money they deserve to eat their crap and burn in a hole. I am so sick of these money grabbing retards. The world would be better off without them.
September 26, 2007 4:36:40 AM

Aye, there are enough 8800 Ultra owners money misers for the world right now, and we don't need more. :D  :D  :D 
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2007 4:37:45 AM

nevasumma said:
LOL No offense. I just thought that was funny.

None taken, now bring on the pie!
September 26, 2007 4:42:12 AM

Quote:
Aye, there are enough 8800 Ultra owners money misers for the world right now, and we don't need more.


Yea mate i'm sick of em! Lets go on a bit of a killin' spree aye? ;) 
September 26, 2007 4:56:24 AM

I'm a long time lurker (since early 2003) and just registered today to help someone out in another thread. So although I have two post under my belt I've been a long time reader.

<rant>
Tom's Hardware has gone downhill very quickly. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why that is.
New ownership, new direction (that is broadening the audience - great for revenue(?), crap for actual technology substance), reduced articles and services (new budget cuts??), reduced depth.
Symptoms of this is the lack of updates in the charts, incomplete charts, and superficial or meaningless articles. I'll say nothing about or pass judgement on the authors who may just be towing the editorial line.
Really, are all these marathon system builds of ANY use? The numbers produced are practically worthless, and the conclusions mostly subjective (that is even if there is a conclusion - sometimes there isn't!). Which is why the inevitable is a forum whinge-fest about how the testing/conclusion was flawed!

I'm viewing this site on a BenQ FP71E+ 17in LCD monitor. Why? Because when I bought it it was the reference monitor Tom's was using to judge all other monitors. I trusted Tom's and their opinions. Now, I wouldn't rely on Tom's for judgements on my hardware choices. Not because they are bad, or inaccurate, but because they test very few of anything any more. The only exception to this so far is what used to be called Tom's Networking, although the signs are there...
I've gone elsewhere. The fact is, I still come here out of habit, one that I'm slowly losing.

And no offence to you lot, but the forums are crap as well. Too many "Rate my build" threads (who cares what you spend your $4000 on, get your QX6850 and SLIed 8800Ultras and go away!), AMD-Intel bitch fighting threads (although it has dropped off since He-Who-Shall-Remain-Nameless and Co. went off in a huff) and not enough real substance. It may be that it is still there, but I can't be bothered any more wading through the muck to find it.
You can actually lay the blame on the site owners/administrators for this as well, as the new format has attracted a different audience. A certain superficial audience, shall we say. Which is fine, if that is the way Tom's want to go I have no problems with it. But don't expect me, and others like me, to stick around.

This was once a great site, and everyone knew it. Now it is one of dozens of clones, which will go on until the name and reputation is worthless.

</rant>

I was bitter, now I'm just sad. It remains to be seen how long Tom's bookmark stays on the Firefox Toolbar.
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2007 5:31:18 AM

There shoud be a bot introduced in the forums that automatically deleltes all posts with "Critique/Rate my build" in the title or "AMD" and "Intel" both in the title. That would cut down the number of posts by about 60%.
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2007 5:34:16 AM

Tom's is still good just they usually update when new hardware comes out. The updates right before the core 2 were great. Problem is no new interesting hardware is coming out especially in graphics.

The cpu front has grown stagnant because chip makers assume there is a way to use 50 cores effectively. They are more concerned with cpu utilization than performance.

No really improvements have been made to sounds cards since the awe 32.

I'm afraid it's the end of days for computer hardware as we know it. :kaola: 
September 26, 2007 5:48:52 AM

Where can we find updated Video Card reviews? :(  I'd like to see some of the 8600 and 2600 OC cards reviewed, seems to be a lot of these cards around at the moment.
These card may be a good option for budget minded part time gamers. :) 
September 26, 2007 6:18:00 AM

But we would like to see some updated benchmarks with the most current drivers.
September 26, 2007 6:32:54 AM

Well, I'm saying watch the 2600XT soar, although ATI said Cat 7.9 offered performance boosts "Across the board."

Might not beat the X1950XT if that affected it, too, but I think the GeForce 7800s are going down on the list.
September 26, 2007 6:54:47 AM

If anyone remembers when THG got bought out and everyone was like 'W7F SOO G4Y, MAN 3h1t THG g0t 0wn3d THIS SUCKS!' myself included

THG released an article or post, i cant remember, saying that they can only release articles on hardware that is out they dont make things up; THG isnt one of those sites that makes things up or breaks NDA's like other sites. Yes i agree that perhaps they arent doing as much work as before and it is really disappointing that they are doing less reviews and updating less but we have to remember that they can only report on things that are out and available.

They cant for example look into the future and benchmark Penryn or tell us when the new GPU's are coming out, simply because they dont have them and they dont know.

If however we go past the launch of Crysis without good benchmarks, and go past the release of penryn without benchmarks, then THG for sure has hit a new low and I for one will be severely disappointed and will probably leave for good.

*as for the VGA charts, it takes a lot of work to update them, but perhaps they can put dates as to when the tests were originally done and so hapless readers wont be caught thinking something is good when it isnt. and this way they can update perhaps the more popular components instead of having to do the entire thing over again. Or they could just be thinking, 'why update them when tons of new things are coming out in the few months ahead'
September 26, 2007 7:41:43 AM

I think they aren't that bad and ill explain why:

If they DID update their charts (that is EVERY CARD IN EVERY GAME for EVERY MAJOR PATCH) it would never get released.

How many cards do they have? If they do it for updated amd drivers, they have to do it for updated nvidia drivers. If the updated drivers dont come out on the same day, people will complain instead of 'its out of date', they will say 'amd have an advantage because their drivers are one week old and nvidia's are a month old. then nvidia will release a major driver another fortnight time and everyone will say 'nvidia is newer drivers'.

There is no winning or happy scenario for people if they update their results. its very expensive. its not going to result in a large change.

It also has another GOOD affect. It causes from now on AMD and Nvidia to very seriously have good drivers on release of the card. this is so that they will not be remembered for poor performing cards despite it technically being a limitation in the driver.

With all those points i wholeheartedly suggest that they update their database when new cards are released and then people should go further and look at recent articles (perhaps in other places or forums) to see if latest drivers have caused an edge.

For anyone who does not want to feel that strong about those kinds of things, they probably will never know that they are missing 1-5fps in their fav game if they got the other video card and updated the driver.
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2007 8:59:58 AM

maverick7 said:
*as for the VGA charts, it takes a lot of work to update them, but perhaps they can put dates as to when the tests were originally done and so hapless readers wont be caught thinking something is good when it isnt. and this way they can update perhaps the more popular components instead of having to do the entire thing over again. Or they could just be thinking, 'why update them when tons of new things are coming out in the few months ahead'

This is a very good idea. Besides, what's the point in re-benching older hardware when new drivers aren't going to suddenly double it's performance. Only hardware that has the possibility of a significant performance difference with new drivers (like the 8x00s and 2x00s) needs to be re-benched. As for the last point - if they keep thinking that they will never update the charts :lol: .
September 26, 2007 10:29:06 AM

Ill admit i don't know everything about the process, but one point after thinking about it i could say, along with what randomizer was saying, perhaps updating while they are running tests for new cards, redoing previous generation cards with the latest drivers.

Its most likely that those drivers will be the best for that card and any performance increase after that will probably be accidental due to optimization of current generation card optimization and probably negligible.

I believe that would at least retrospectively allow people who do what i do (buy high end second hand cards from previous generation) to see full potential of these cards and show a fair representation of what the new cards are comparatively to old ones.
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2007 10:43:23 AM

This thread has been going for some time. Unfortunately, I havnt seen any comments about this from certain people. I know its like walking into a firestorm, and maybe they have their hands tied, and I dont expect them to either, but I would like to see the higher ups respond to this, thus providing those certain people the ability to update. These charts are unique in many ways on the net, and should be cherished by the owners/powers that be as do their readers. Ive been around for awhile as well, and have heard the rants. The charts are still the best thing THG has to offer, and it would serve them well to keep them, and updated as well, putting forth the required time/monies for this
September 27, 2007 8:45:36 AM

yeah, they should update it. noobs like me dont want to be shocked after refrencing to something as back as JULY. when it is almost OCT
September 27, 2007 9:42:23 PM

I'd do it for them if they'd pay me for it :lol:  (even I can read average FPS's)
!