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Which 24" Wide Monitor is right for me?

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September 15, 2007 6:43:00 PM

I'm building a new system (which is posted in the forum for building systems) and I want to get a 24" wide screen LCD monitor for it.

I need something that is high quality because I do stuff in Photoshop and 3DS Max but this is my home computer so I will also be gaming with it so I need fast response times as well. On top of all that, I have an Xbox 360 but no HDTV so I'd love to be able to hook my 360 up to the Monitor for some HD action. I already can do it with my 22" CRT with the add on monitor cord I got but I've had real problems getting sound through my computer speakers and the picture isn't as good as it should be. If I could get a monitor that I could buy add on speakers that are meant to attach to the monitor and has the proper connections in the back so that I can hook up my 360 that'd be fantastic. Then I'd have the picture, and the sound taken care of.

Yes this is a tall order and I wouldn't be suprised if I can't get all of what I want... Xbox360 comes last on this wishlist so I'll just have to wait and see what you guys think.

The monitors I've heard that are good are the 24" Samsung, Dell, and BenQ. I've pretty much heard equal stories from different people each say that the Samsung is the better of these 3, or the Dell, or the BenQ. I can't seem to get a definitive answer. I was hoping that if I outlined my needs/wants I could get some advice on what would be best for me.

Thanks!!

More about : wide monitor

a b U Graphics card
September 15, 2007 7:26:17 PM

IIRC some of the new Dells come with the 'high color gamut' which supposedly gives you more accurate color, for your Photoshop stuff. This used to be a very pricey option but is now only a little higher than the reular model, again, IIRC.

Those Dells should also do all the other stuff you want. Not sure about the speakers though.
Related resources
September 16, 2007 3:50:43 AM

Fast versus good. I can think of a couple adult comments to make, but alas I won't.

Your problem in life can be simply stated as Fast versus Good.

6bit monitors can be fast. Very fast. Fuel injected, turbo charged, 0-60 in 3.2 seconds fast. Whip by with little or no potential for a ghost image to exist.

8bit monitors can be good. Very Good, as in Lexus good. Fast is a relative term. The Lexus, like the 8bit is quick on its feet, but it is not going to keep up with the latest wundercar. And ghosting can be and issue with the slower 8bit screens. Of course what is ghosting to you is a slightly blurry image for 0.02 second to me. And most people don't complain of ghosting during movies as the content is less concentration (ie during a game there may only be movement in a very limited area and your eyes are sharply focused on that particular movement whereas in a movie you are watching the entire screen with less viewing concentration of any one specific area).

According to http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ and several other sources Sammy makes the panels for the 24" Dell, Gateway, HP et al. In most instances the panels are identical, thus the only difference between monitors is cosmetics, user features and support.

So when you heard that 24" Samsung, Dell, and BenQ are good, you are quite correct, as the Sammy and Dell monitors are most likely twin sisters or at least kissing cousins. TrustedReviews has done nice reviews on all 3 monitors. TR likes the BenQ (which is not made by Sammy), but I don't due to the feature set of the monitor (not knocking the picture Quality, just the physical attributes of the monitor).


But while Sammy makes great monitors, Sammy is also watching the market demands. Sammy is producing 24" monitors using 6 bit panels to generate monitors in the less than $500 price range to compete with other companies that are producing 6 bit monitors. Would not be surprised to see a cheaper (6bit) Dell hit the market before Xmas.

You are going to have to determine if you can live with the slower 8bit monitors. My suggestion is hang out at BB and check out the Gateway. Remember Gateway is a Sammy 8bit panel. And the real world response time of the Gateway is going to be indentical to other identical Sammy panels.

There is a newer Dell (since July) 24" panel. Just a newer Sammy panel with a wider color gamut. Suppose to be a big improvement over last years 8bit panels. Haven't seen the new Dell or the same panel on a Sammy or any other brand to see if the response time is better. Obviously if Dell is going to use that panel, so will Sammy, Gateway, HP etc eventually share the same foundations.

And by the way, if you are serious about Photoshop etc, just ignore the 6bit monitors. The improvement with color values and black depth from 6bit to 8bit is dramatic.

PS: Built in monitor speakers sux green slimy swamp water filled with dead bugs and rotting fish. Got the picture? Good. Don't buy a monitor because it has built in speakers or can be fitted with a speaker bar. Speaker bars are two steps up from the built in monitor speakers and still sux green slimy swamp water, but at least the fish are still alive and feeding on the dead bugs.

For speakers buy anything that makes noise and can be physically separated. Logitech, Klipsch, Altec Lansing etc all make little stand alone speakers that work and will sound light years better than the built in speakers or speakerbars.
September 16, 2007 3:57:19 AM

Thats almost the exact one I am getting. I have heard several ppl confirm that it is amazing and its great to have your reply to confirm it as well. The one I'm getting is the exact same model number but has a Z at the end (I think its a Z) and its basicly just a newer model and comes with the updated firmware that non Z model is now suppose to be shipping with. Only problem is that there are still a lot of non- Z models without the new firmware lurking around.
September 16, 2007 4:36:28 AM

Thanks for your reply StevieD!

I can live with a very minor ammount of ghosting. I just want the best/fastest of those slower monitors.

I only meantioned the onboard speakers so that I could run my Xbox 360's sound through them when I use my Monitor with that. I actually have Logitech Z5300 speakers but I've not been able to get my xbox360 to send the sound to the computer or drectly to the speaker system so that the sounds come out of those speakers.

As for the BenQ, I appriciate your comments but could you please tell me more about the problems with the BenQ features? What is there/not there that you don't like in comparison to the others?

Thanks!
September 16, 2007 4:55:01 AM

There are three panel types...

TN - Very low color accuracy and contrast, Bad overall color when compared to the other panels...mostly used for gaming since they can have very fast response times. Don't get me wrong...TN panels have come a long way but in terms of color they are inferior to the two below.

PVA/MVA - A mix between the above panel and below. Highest contrast ratio which means the darkest blacks. The blacks do crush though. That is a term for losing details in dark areas as the blacks merge. There are also slow the slowest of the panels which means ghosting.

IPS - The most accurate color you can get. Also the most expensive panel. It has the best color accuracy of all the panels. It's fast...just not as fast as TN. But it is indeed quicker the PVA/MVA. The contrast ratio is not as high as PVA/MVA so the blacks aren't as dark. But you don't lose as much details.

It depends on which you want really. IPS panels tend to be quite expensive. Every flat panel has it's strong points and weakpoints. Considering you want a monitor to play your xbox 360 also that elminates a few choices in mind..Such as the Planar PX2611W which uses a 26" S-IPS panel. It has banding issues at 1080 over console play so that rules it out for you...unfortunately that was one of your most affordable solutions priced at 900-999.

IPS panels are getting rarer and rarer thanks to the american consumers lack of understanding in TFT technology. They see a 24 inch flat panel for 250 dollars and just gasp and purchase it. Thanks to this type of purchasing TN panels are flooding the market and IPS is becoming more and more rare. Dell now has a lottery and are beginning to phase out all their IPS panel monitors (except the 30 incher)

Also Wide gamut displays does not mean more accurate color. It means more vibrant colors which look over saturated. Photoshop and some other programs can notice these higher gamut displays and adjust their profiles to display content how they should be. high gamut monitors isn't necessarily a good thing if you're in the entertainment industry...such as video, photo, and even 3d modeling when it comes to texturing. Why do you think the entertainment industry still uses CRT's? Flatpanels have MANY faults that are just too high for some users such as myself. Most the entertainment industry uses CRT's such as the FW900 from sony. A 24" widescreen CRT that retailed for around 2300 back in 2003 before they were discontinued thanks to flat panels. They will make their return though but in flatpanel form in 2009/20010 in "FED". High gamut displays are desirable for certain scenarios but not entertainment creation...But some programs can notice and correct this within the program environment. If you want a really good monitor when it comes to color accuracy you really have no choice but to get a IPS panel...TN's are fast but their colors aren't that great. Most people always claim "LIES...they are great!" and offer links to cheaply priced 6 bit TN panels...but the truth is they are inferior to PVA/MVA and IPS. If you use a TN panel and switch over to these more expensive and better technologies you will have trouble going back. Unfortunately consideirng your uses..PVA/MVA can cause ghosting..it's more affordable but it's up to you. If color accuracy is extremely important and ghosting is also an annoying ordeal then IPS is what you're looking for...but get ready to dish out some cash.

If you want accurate information as well as reviews on TFT technology head over here..

http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

They have a vastly more active display forum compared to THG. Also check out the TFT Technology Breakdown thread as well as the site Stevie mentioned.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

It should give you a thorough break down. Picking out the right LCD monitor takes research unfortunately....But what is your budget?...it'd be much easier to make a recommendation based off that.

edit----

Ahhh..you posted while I was typing. If you can live with ghosting then a PVA/MVA panel should do you fine. You can use that hardforum link I posted to read up on all sorts of different panels. This way you can make an educated choice on what panel would suit you the best.
September 16, 2007 6:01:57 AM

Darkmatterx said:
Thanks for your reply StevieD!

I can live with a very minor ammount of ghosting. I just want the best/fastest of those slower monitors.

I only meantioned the onboard speakers so that I could run my Xbox 360's sound through them when I use my Monitor with that. I actually have Logitech Z5300 speakers but I've not been able to get my xbox360 to send the sound to the computer or drectly to the speaker system so that the sounds come out of those speakers.

As for the BenQ, I appriciate your comments but could you please tell me more about the problems with the BenQ features? What is there/not there that you don't like in comparison to the others?

Thanks!


Fixed Panel, no height adjustment possible. Major flaw that I can not overlook on any monitor. Also the frame to the BenQ causes the unit to be physically wider. If I could handle the width of the BenQ I would be able to use a 27" ... which means I could buy a Dell 27" IPS.
a c 365 U Graphics card
a c 196 C Monitor
September 16, 2007 6:15:53 AM

StevieD said:
... which means I could buy a Dell 27" IPS.


The Dell 2707WFP uses a PVA panel. Only the Dell 2007WFP (unless they started a panel lottery) and the 3007WFP use IPS panels.


September 16, 2007 6:31:47 AM

Indeed. They have a Dell 2008WFP coming out soon which will also be a TN panel. It's really sad to see the TN panels literally taking over. But thankfully FED will be rolling out in around 2-3 years. Cheaper to produce then LCD's and literally eliminate dead pixels. Even if 20% of the field emitters fail the monitor will work fine. I just hope that it comes in and sweeps over LCD's....Personally I can't stand the LCD faults..they are just too high. Considering I do video editing and many other color accurate and lag depending tasks it just rules it out for me.

If you want IPS your choices are a bit limited and expensive. But since you said PVA/MVA is fine then you have many more options. Don't forget to check the hardforum...You will regret not reading on these mass reviews if you just pick a monitor without checking them out in person. They all have faults and strengths...but the key component is picking an LCD monitor that has the strengths and suits your needs.
September 16, 2007 6:47:11 AM

No height adjust? Thats absurd..... I'm of below average height so the chances that the monitor won't need to be lowered by an inch or so is probably not good.

Thanks for the info StevieD, Kamrooz, and Jagurskx! Thats a lot of good stuff that I really didn't know and the links are gold since I can learn more. I did know of some of the ups and downs of the 3 main panel types since I had asked if the BenQ 24" was a good quality monitor and ppl were raving about it I figured it was a good quality. Maybe it still is good quality, I dunno, its not exactly a CHEAP 24"

Anyways, I'll look at the links. I posted a post on the system build forum here...

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245262-31-time-system-lots-choose-from-spend#t1745665

That has a lot of info on what I'm looking for overall though a few things have changed due to the discussions.

My budget for EVERYTHING is $3-4k CND. I already purchased an ATI X1950Pro for $150 CND (was $100 off) to tide me over just until the new cards come out late '07 and early '08. Once I see who wins the next top end war I'll dump the 1950 for the next big thing so I need to keep some cash aside for that. The list on the link I provided will give you an idea of how much I''ll probably have to set aside already.

As for CRT's, I do know that they are still better for many things which is why with my last computer I picked up a Mitsubishi 2070 Black 22" monitor. Its a great monitor but its not wide screen and its a beast. :)  I'll still be keeping the CRT so while I do want a LCD thats got great color/contrast and is as fast as possible, I know that I can always play a few fast action games on my CRT if the ghosting bothers me.

Thanks

September 16, 2007 7:21:08 AM

Well if you want you can nab a FW900 ^_^..a 24" widescreen CRT. It retailed for 2,300 but now they run on ebay used for 200-450. I'm getting a new rig in the following months and planning to nab one. Although I'm not gonna nab one from ebay. I'm gonna get a refurbished model here..

http://www.accurateit.com/details.asp?iid=203

They come with a 1 year warranty which isn't bad for a refurbished model. From what I've heard this company is quite enthusiastic about these monitors which is a good thing in my eyes. The company that put out the movie "300" exclusively picked up these monitors since they are the only monitor that could give the color accuracy they were looking for. Several companies use this monitor...Such as Pixar, ILM, Lucas Arts...damn good monitor. If you do decide to get one make sure you nab a Refurbished grade A model....This one is A-..which basically means works as factory spec but there is a slight blemish/blemishes on the plastic bezel. B grade is a screen imperfection which is a big no no..heh

when I get my new rig I'm going to nab one of these suckers and a non widescreen CRT for a dual rig. probably a 22 incher or maybe 21...it'll end up costing me 800-1000 for the two monitors. Free shipping also if it's too a ground floor building. Hopefully they can last me until 2009/2010's FED technology...
September 16, 2007 7:44:46 AM

Kamrooz said:
There are three panel types...

TN - Very low color accuracy and contrast, Bad overall color when compared to the other panels...mostly used for gaming since they can have very fast response times. Don't get me wrong...TN panels have come a long way but in terms of color they are inferior to the two below.

PVA/MVA - A mix between the above panel and below. Highest contrast ratio which means the darkest blacks. The blacks do crush though. That is a term for losing details in dark areas as the blacks merge. There are also slow the slowest of the panels which means ghosting.

IPS - The most accurate color you can get. Also the most expensive panel. It has the best color accuracy of all the panels. It's fast...just not as fast as TN. But it is indeed quicker the PVA/MVA. The contrast ratio is not as high as PVA/MVA so the blacks aren't as dark. But you don't lose as much details.

It depends on which you want really. IPS panels tend to be quite expensive. Every flat panel has it's strong points and weakpoints. Considering you want a monitor to play your xbox 360 also that elminates a few choices in mind..Such as the Planar PX2611W which uses a 26" S-IPS panel. It has banding issues at 1080 over console play so that rules it out for you...unfortunately that was one of your most affordable solutions priced at 900-999.

IPS panels are getting rarer and rarer thanks to the american consumers lack of understanding in TFT technology. They see a 24 inch flat panel for 250 dollars and just gasp and purchase it. Thanks to this type of purchasing TN panels are flooding the market and IPS is becoming more and more rare. Dell now has a lottery and are beginning to phase out all their IPS panel monitors (except the 30 incher)

Also Wide gamut displays does not mean more accurate color. It means more vibrant colors which look over saturated. Photoshop and some other programs can notice these higher gamut displays and adjust their profiles to display content how they should be. high gamut monitors isn't necessarily a good thing if you're in the entertainment industry...such as video, photo, and even 3d modeling when it comes to texturing. Why do you think the entertainment industry still uses CRT's? Flatpanels have MANY faults that are just too high for some users such as myself. Most the entertainment industry uses CRT's such as the FW900 from sony. A 24" widescreen CRT that retailed for around 2300 back in 2003 before they were discontinued thanks to flat panels. They will make their return though but in flatpanel form in 2009/20010 in "FED". High gamut displays are desirable for certain scenarios but not entertainment creation...But some programs can notice and correct this within the program environment. If you want a really good monitor when it comes to color accuracy you really have no choice but to get a IPS panel...TN's are fast but their colors aren't that great. Most people always claim "LIES...they are great!" and offer links to cheaply priced 6 bit TN panels...but the truth is they are inferior to PVA/MVA and IPS. If you use a TN panel and switch over to these more expensive and better technologies you will have trouble going back. Unfortunately consideirng your uses..PVA/MVA can cause ghosting..it's more affordable but it's up to you. If color accuracy is extremely important and ghosting is also an annoying ordeal then IPS is what you're looking for...but get ready to dish out some cash.

If you want accurate information as well as reviews on TFT technology head over here..

http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

They have a vastly more active display forum compared to THG. Also check out the TFT Technology Breakdown thread as well as the site Stevie mentioned.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

It should give you a thorough break down. Picking out the right LCD monitor takes research unfortunately....But what is your budget?...it'd be much easier to make a recommendation based off that.

edit----

Ahhh..you posted while I was typing. If you can live with ghosting then a PVA/MVA panel should do you fine. You can use that hardforum link I posted to read up on all sorts of different panels. This way you can make an educated choice on what panel would suit you the best.


How about the new HP w2408 24" 5ms gray to gray, is it any good? Its so new there are no reviews as of yet.
a c 365 U Graphics card
a c 196 C Monitor
September 16, 2007 8:17:02 AM

systemlord said:
How about the new HP w2408 24" 5ms gray to gray, is it any good? Its so new there are no reviews as of yet.


Based on the few detail of this monitor it uses the inferior TN panel.
September 16, 2007 8:37:36 AM

Jaguar is correct...It is a TN Panel.If you've used TN panels in the past and have never experienced a PVA/MVA or IPS panel...Then a TN will do fine. But if you need a certain amount of quality from your monitor then TN is just out of the question. If you're on a TN now and want to grab a larger one then go for it...it's a nice upgrade...

But in all cases I've seen people using PVA/MVA or IPS and switching to a TN...it only ends up with them returning it within the week...that's how much the difference is ^_^.
September 16, 2007 8:40:01 AM

Want an HP?

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-38...

Sammy 8bit panel. The same panel that was used in the previous Dell model as well as the current Gateway and several Sammy.


New model is too new to know the panel make for sure, but I suspect it is the 6bit panel with a broader selection of consumer features. Wait to see what one of the reviews states or check with http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ to see what panel is being used.


Updated: Kamrooz is saying that the new HP monitor is an TN (6 bit). If you want it, wait a week or two... it will be on sale for less than $500 to compete with the other TN 24" panels.
September 16, 2007 9:04:44 AM

Thanks I'll check it out. BUT if I do end up getting a TN 6bit I'll probably check out the BenQ which I can find locally to see if the lack of adjustment options is a problem.

As for the wide screen CRT. I may look at picking up a used one but I honestly don't think my desktop space could handle a beast like that.

Ok 3 questions

1 For LCD's what are my options for IPS these days? It doesn't sound like there are many to choose from anymore.

2. Are there any good quality images on a web page showing the differences between the monitor types?

3. IF I have to go with a TN panel which 24" monitor is currently the best?

Thanks
September 16, 2007 9:27:25 AM

You can visit that Hardforum link I posted earlier. That forum is EXTREMELY active and most the time for all the popular LCD panels they have dedicated threads where people discuss the faults and strengths as well as post pictures of the monitor. IMO best place to look since it's from a users perspective and not manufacturer specs which you just can't trust. I know some of them are a bit much to read...They have one for the FW900 on there as well..it's like around 100 pages or so..lol..but tehy have great pictures through out..

I don't know of all the IPS monitors out there but the ones I do know are the Dell 3007WFP and 2007WFP. The Planar PX2611W, Nec 2490WUXI, Nec2690WUXI.

there are more but I haven't researched into the monitors I was planning to buy. Considering my uses I was going to nab either the Planar or the Nec models. The planar is a 26" S-IPS monitor while the nec 2490 and 2690 are 24 and 26 inch H-IPS panels. The Nec are professional grade and it reflects the price. The 2490 is between 1400 and 1500. While the Nec 2690 is between 1600 and 1700. Extremely pricey...lol...I'll let others toss by other panels since the solutions I were going for literally break your wallet in two...

But..I would not go with a TN consideirng your uses. If you want to hook up your xbox 360 to a flatpanel I would literally feel bad for your xb0x 360....you need a PVA/MVA or IPS...stay away from TN considering your uses. If you use photoshop and 3d studio max you need atleast SOME color accuracy....more over for photoshop then 3dsm but minimum pva/mva. With that in consideration you have lots of choices between PVA/MVA and IPS.....

Bah...I wish you weren't in canada...If you in the states I could pick out a nice rig for you from newegg including money to spare for your cutting edge graphics card in the next few months and money aside for a nice monitor....lol...Do they have any similar sites like newegg for canada that you will be shopping from?...lol
September 16, 2007 12:54:10 PM

You can get a HDTV LCD for $1300-$2500 at 1920x1200 @60Hz, they have the new 120Hz HDTV LCD's which get rid of the motion blurr. I have seen them and the Toshiba's have a built in demo which will show you half the screen at 120Hz and the other half at 60Hz. The difference is quite big, imagine when they bring this tech to gaming LCD's!
September 16, 2007 2:16:01 PM

Ya 'egg not delivering to Canada sucks but what can ya do. :/ 

I was using a couple sites. I used this site to take a look at how big a margin there was in the price for each part to see if its worth ordering it in and paying shipping or just getting it locally.

http://www.pricecanada.com

And, so far I was looking at these 2 sites for the actual products. Although I haven't gone through everything yet so I may search out other stores if I don't like the price. Honestly though, I REALLY REALLY want this system in my hands and really don't want to have to order it online and have to wait for it to ship to me. :) 

Anyways I was mostly using this site,

http://www.canadacomputers.com


But I also was checking this site,

http://www.tigerdirect.com

Generally Tigerdirect showed higher prices but they do have in the 500gb Samsung Harddrives and I don't see them at any other store.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...


For actual online stores someone on this site said that http://www.directcanada.com/

and,

http://www.ncix.com

are the places to go for good deals and that price compare site "PriceCanada" seems to show those 2 sites at the low end of the prices most of the time.

While I did say I would really rather NOT have to wait for stuff to get shipped to me, if the savings are decent its obviously worth it.

BTW I hate white and beige for my parts. Black preferably but some silver is ok too as long as its not more silver then black. :) 

Thanks btw. Offering to see what you can put together for me based on what we've talked about to WAY above and beyond.

PS. Speaking of silver, I saw that Antec P182SE mirror finnish. I actually am curious to see that in person... The price is telling me to walk away but it could be rather cool... or it could be an annoying smudge magnet that drives me crazy because I keep turning my head towards the reflection because my own movement catches the corner of my eye. ;)  lol


EDIT: Oh I forgot to say, I appriciate your efforts to educate me about monitors. Unfortunately if I'm looking at spending over $1000 for a good sized IPS monitor I probably will have to get one of the better quality TN monitors (because the P/MVA's are to slow) for now and get an IPS beast later. I just finnished school and have to consider where to best spend this money for my new system. While you don't have to convince me that a high quality monitor is important, if I got a 1.5-2k monitor I would have to pretty much gut the rest of what I was going to get. Since I still have my Mitsubishi 2070 22" CRT I think I'll be ok if for now as long as I keep in mind that I need to use the CRT when I need colour accuracy. Heck, for the price of 1 of those IPS monitors I could get a 30" (which makes me drool btw) or maybe 2 24" wides or maybe 2 27"? Either way, I could get a lot.... :) 
September 17, 2007 6:37:14 AM

Alright...I built a list for you from NCIX.com....I have to admit this is one uber rig. I was reading your other post and noticed a lot of people just said get ddr2-800..I said screw it. I based the entire rig off what you wanted and tossed in suggestions and modifications. But pretty much I think you'll be happy with it. BUT I just have to say DAMN is canada expensive...rofl...but it's still a great budget with what I pulled out...Considering the price of IPS monitors I agree with you and just went all out with a build that could last you a very long while...here it is...I'm also going to give my reason for picking the parts to help you understand the hardware..Here goes..


----------------------------

CPU

$328.44
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=Intel

Obviously we want this rig to last. If you plan to OC as well it makes it a even better buy. The future is multi threaded....embrace it ^_^.

----------------------------

Motherboard

$150.44
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24650&vpn=GA-P35-DS3R&manufacture=Gigabyte

Very popular board for a good reason. Good OC'er and the price ratio is hard to beat. I'm an Asus man myself but beginning to think on switching to a GA board for my next rig. Asus is a bit pricey although they are great boards. If you want something else feel free to choose....You have leeway on your budget which you'll see at the end pricing. But I have checked compatibility for this board with all your parts. I also chose this for now because x38 isn't out yet. So we have no idea what will be up. Of course there are a few boards which have been revealed but not out for purchase. I'd either wait or nab this one. If you do wait also give it a little time for people to review the boards before you make the jump.

----------------------------

Case

$146.89
Antec P182 ATX Black Mid Tower
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24122&vpn=P182&manufacture=ANTEC

I was checking out the cases and even though I prefer full towers to mid towers...It's pretty good. 5 fan slots with 3 already filled. I would recommend getting a full tower since the more room the better the airflow but the choice is yours. I would like to comment though that this is one damn good case...so the choice is yours...I also looked into the mirrored version which is around 200 Canadian from ncix...Don't get it!...lol...Smudges and the reflections will drive you nuts...lol. Choice is yours though. is 50 dollars really worth to have a mirrored computer case?...Only reason I would recommend this is if you don't have a mirror in your room for yourself =P...heck I don't..and I need one..lol. Regarding the extra fan slots. Fill them...I always fill the cases to maximum capacity..keep reading on as I talk about a good fan in the heatsink part of this post.

----------------------------

PSU

$231.26
Silverstone Decathlon DA850
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23886&vpn=DA850&manufacture=Silverstone%20Technology

I originally picked out a Enermax 850DXX for you but I researched on it and it's too big for the p182 series. The Enermax seemed to have some long wires...but the form factor of the PSU is too big. Both the enermax and this Silverstone are Tier 1 psu's...I don't know if this PSU has extremely long wires. Hard to find the info...It is modular though which helps on airflow. you NEVER want to skimp out on the PSU. It's the most vital part of your system. Why risk saving a little cash by getting a cheap psu when it can literally kill your entire computer if it blows. Not worth it. I always recommend Tier 1 and Tier 2 psu's and nothing less. This will do you fine. The enermax and the DA850 are both PCI-E 2.0 compliant. That means they have the new PCI-E 8 pin connectors and the 6 pin PCI-E connectors.

----------------------------

Memory

2X 229.99
2X OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 2X1GB PC2-8500
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23129&vpn=OCZ2RPR10662GK&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology

Even though having 4 sticks for OC'ing isn't as good as just 2 sticks. 2X2GB is very expensive and you don't have many choices. In almost all scenarios the 2x2 don't go up to ddr2 800 or 1066...So this is why I recommended the OCZ Rapier. I also noted you wanted 1066 for more headroom so I nabbed what you wanted. I know you wanted XMS but I've heard many bad things from Corsair fans..Corsair is slowly moving down the road of using cheaper chips which has caused problems for some oc'ers. I also looked into it and these modules are compatible with the motherboard chosen. ^_^

From personal experience with OCZ I have to admit I'm very happy. I have had two out of four of my 512 sticks go bad on me a while back. I called them up and even though they didn't make my modules anymore they asked if I wanted to send them all four of my sticks for four 1gb sticks instead. I went from 4x512 533 modules with 3-2-2-8 timings to 4x1 667 modules with 4-4-4-8 timings. I was able to drop my timings of these 1 gb modules near the original timings of my older modules since they ran in 533 and not 667. They even shipped my replacements before they got my ram. I just gave them a tracking number and I had my computer up and running the next day. I literally RMA'ed the ram in one day and on the next I had my new ram sitting outside my door. Fantastic service.

These modules also use the D9 micron chips so they are good OC'ers. They also come with a lifetime warranty and you can even push the voltages up to 2.35 without voiding that warranty. OCZ is one of the top choices in the memory industry ^_^.

These are totally top notch memory. If you want a cheaper alternative they do have others...Just mention if you want something cheaper...since you can get great modules...Here is another solution if you don't want the OCZ modules

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24180&vpn=BL2KIT12864AL1065&manufacture=CRUCIAL%20TECHNOLOGY

Great sticks as well for a 100 dollar saving basically if you nab two. Choice is yours. They also use D9 micron chips.

----------------------------

Optical Dvd drives

2x $45.15
2X LG GSA-H62L Black SATA DVD+RW 18X8X16 With Lightscribe
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24533&vpn=GSA-H62L%20BLACK&manufacture=LG%20Electronics

45 dollars for cd rom drives. Damn canada...rofl...All the prices of Lightscribe drives for canada were 40+ from NCIX.com so I chose the best suited. They were all similar in price but these caught my eyes. I'm sticking with all black since you want a Antec p180/182 series case. I chose a black case obviously with black drives (I HATE beige too!). I also nabbed two so you can do direct CD to CD copy but if you want you can drop one. I also made sure to nab a SATA version instead of PATA (IDE wires). This way it won't hinder airflow at all.

----------------------------

Hard Drives

$248.84
WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB SATA 10k
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=666640949&vpn=WD1500ADFD&manufacture=Western%20Digital

$153.98
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB PMR
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18413&vpn=ST3500630AS&manufacture=Seagate

I nabbed two drives for you. If you want more you can go ahead and nab them. Or if you don't think you need a raptor you can drop it and just nab more storage drives. I nabbed a Raptor for the performance aspect. Even though the new WD Caviar SE drives have higher write performance thx to PMR among other thing....They can't match I/O performance and other aspects of the raptor. It's still top notch although they are a bit pricey for not much space. If you decide to nab this drive use it as your system drive. Once you're done with a project, move it on over to the storage drive.

I chose the Seagate for a few reasons. One, they didn't have the samsung drive you wanted...Two, Seagate drives are damn reliable. I've had many drives in the past from Maxtor, Seagate, WD, IBM and a few others. So far I've had all my drives from Maxtor die within 2 years. Half my WD drives have died (although they are normal drives..not Raptors). All my seagate drives are still alive and kicking (I've had a couple of them for 6 years now...still running flawlessly). The WD drives have a 3 year warranty while the Seagate drives have a 5 year warranty. I chose the reliability aspect for you. The WD Raptor is also a premium drive that has a 5 year warranty. If you want to drop either, or both for other drives go for it. Just wanted to give my advice on the matter.

----------------------------

Floppy

$8.27
Black Sony Floppy Drive
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=9047&vpn=MPF920-1%2F121&manufacture=SONY

Uber Black Floppy Drive of Doom..nothing else will do...=P

----------------------------

Soundcard

$108.12
Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23249&vpn=70SB073A00003&manufacture=Creative%20Labs

I'm not a big fan of onboard sound. Onboard also takes up resource on your rig which can hinder performance slightly. You will actually see a few FPS boost by purchasing a sound card (keep in mind it's just a slight increase). Unfortunately I dislike Creative but they are the only X-FI users besides Auzentech. Although the Auzentech card is 200 dollars. Auzentech is currently using Creative drivers for temporary till they can finish their own. Creative let Auzentech use their X-FI technology so it's a breath of fresh air to see a alternative since Creatives only real fault is that their drivers are horrid. But the choice is yours on this one. I chose one of the upper Creative cards but didn't go all out for their fatalaity professional series. If you really want one of the front 5.25 drive bays connectors for your soundcard then you might want to nab the professional series...But really no need in my eyes. Great card...But grr at creative drivers (this shouldn't hold you back...fantastic card).

----------------------------

Heatsink/Thermal Paste/Fans

$64.54
Thermalright ULTRA-120 Extreme
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23531&vpn=ULTRA-120-EXTREME&manufacture=THERMALRIGHT

$12.47
Arctic Silver 5 3.5 gram
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=10715&vpn=AS5-3.5&manufacture=ARCTIC%20SILVER

$15.75
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17747&vpn=SF...

Damn Arctic silver 5 is expensive in canada....I also nabbed a Thermalright Ultra 120-extreme since it's the best cooler atm. I remember reading you wanted the 90 so you don't run into issues of it not fitting. From what I read it barely fits inside your case. So it will work. It will have around 1/4 inch of clearance down to around 2mm maybe...lol. Cutting it close but it will work. It's a REALLY good cooler and I wouldn't recommend getting a cheap solution. It's up to you if you want to or not. If you want to nab a 90 ultra version go for it. But I would always nab one the best cooler to give me as much OC headroom as possible. As well as keeping that hungry quad core cool. Got more heat then the dual cores. There have been people saying that the 120 ultra at times has come to people not being 100% flat. People have then had to lap the Heatsink...I don't know if this ties into the 90 version as well. Keep in mind though this is not in all cases. I have a tuniq tower in my case. Another great cooler but a few degress below the ultra 120.

Regarding fans..Nab one for the Ultra 120...The S-flex is a great fan..BUT!...I posted this link to show you what you should be looking for. But unfortunately NCIX only has 2 of the 3 S-flex models. I would recommend getting the s-flex fan from somewhere else that has the SFF21F model...not the SFF21E as linked above. The SFF21E model pumps out 49 CFM's at 20.1 DBA. While the SFF21F pumps out 63.7 CFM's at 28 DBA. These fans are VERY quiet for their CFM output. I would recommend nabbing the SFF21F model although NCIX doesn't have it. You might want to order that seperately from somewhere else. If you want a very quiet computer you can also nab these to replace the fans in your case or to fill up the 2 empty slots of the 5. ...Or replace all 5 with quite high CFM fans such as the SFF21F...Or just skip the idea since your case had 3 fans anyway. I would always fill them all..airflow is important.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

That's everything....The total price in Canadian currency is!

$1974.13 (With the OCZ Reaper modules)

A very powerful rig. You said you already have a x1950 pro. So I left the graphics card out. With tax and shipping (don't know much about the percetanges and taxes in canada) you should be able to figure it out better than I since I'm not sure about what taxes you have to pay for in canada. But even if it turns out to be expensive and land around 2,300 with tax and shipping you still have 700 left over for a top of the line graphics card when they come out. This keeps it within 3k Canadian....If you want to add anything or change anything in the rig feel free to do so. If you want recommendations on other choices feel free to ask and I'll help...Judging by the fact that you said you can spend 3-4K canadian.....If it is indeed 4k...This means you can nab a cutting edge graphics card which is 600 or so...Along with a Planar PX2611W which is a 26" IPS panel monitor..It's around 900-999 US so it shouldn't be extremely far out of reach. If you do nab both of these you'll be just about hitting your 4k limit. If this is too much you can always just nab a lower spec monitor. Although I would advice against TN...I just dislike the technology. I'd rather have a PVA/MVA then a TN panel...color is important afterall since you use photoshop...choice is yours.

Well...that took me a couple of hours to finish..lol..time for a soda break ^_^. Please do respond with any questions and comments. If you feel nervous about certain parts just post and I'll offer alternatives while keeping the system compatible and up to par with the rest of the build. BTW...I know 850 watts seems like a lot. Pretty much overkill for your rig. But it doesn't mean you'll be using 850 Watts of power so your electric bill will go up. It only uses the amount of power your rig draws. They do have a 650 and 750 DA versions of the Silverstone power supply I mentioned. But overall I wanted to nab you a Tier 1 PSU that has upgrade room. This way down the road if you ever want a 30 inch monitor and want to end up SLI'ing..All you'd have to do is buy a new mobo and a second graphics card...Your PSU is already SLI approved and has the power to do so. You can also have no worries about adding more hard drives and all that jazz since you have the power. The difference in price between the 650 and 850 models is $60 Canadian. With the 750 and 850 difference as $30 Canadian. Overall a cheap difference for a higher watt top quality PSU....Worth it IMO...Afterall.....If you ever do take the plunge into a 30 incher...you have the option without having to buy a new PSU.

Looking forward to your reply.

IF you want to go EVEN farther above and beyond just tell me. I'll put together a rig similar to what I am going to nab for myself ^_^..It's a freaking BEAST...rofl...
September 17, 2007 1:36:28 PM

If you are still looking at the 24" monitors I can attest to the Dell 2407-HC being an awesome monitor. I've been playing PS3 and watching movies for the past month on it and it rocks. Just make sure you get it on sale. They put it on sale about once a month. It will cost about $600 and you can spend the rest of the money on a better rig.

Also, I noticed no motion blur or ghosting while playing Ninja Gaiden Sigma, which is a very fast game.
September 17, 2007 3:17:15 PM

Well every person is different. LCD ghosting has to do with retinal persistence. I won't get too detailed into it but it's basically like looking at a light bulb for a few seconds. When you look away you see the blotch of light even when you've turned your gaze away from the bulb.

CRT's would also have this problem BUT..They implement a black image after each frame which basically clears the retina. That's why we see no ghosting what so ever on CRT's. That's basically a simplified explanation but it can get rather detailed.

Some people see ghosting while others don't...It all depends on the person. My friends are along the same lines as well. They have a Dell 24 incher and they claim they don't see anything. But when I sit down and game on their monitor it drives me crazy. Especially in CS 1.6 and CS Source...was a dedicated Counter strike player for years...Heck...Team almost made it to Cal-P a while back...blah...straying off topic...But yea...it depends on the person.
September 18, 2007 10:14:59 AM

Hey Kamrooz! Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I was rather ill yesterday and was in bed untill only a few hours ago. I got up and ate and now I'm here. I looked over your suggestions but admitadly I haven't had time to go into detail on them. Its 6am here but I'll come back and spend time on a longer post in a little while. I just wanted to post this now because you were probably wondering why you didn't hear from me 12 hours ago. :) 

BTW you really went above and beyond! Spending hour"s" on this for me? Thats amazingly nice of you! Thank-you!
September 18, 2007 2:40:14 PM

No worries man ^_^...I find it funny you actually posted a response like that. I do the exact same thing! lol...I always appreciate anyone that helps me out and want to make sure they have my complete attention and appreciation when I get helped out ^_^.

You're very welcome ^_^...If you have any questions or comments on the rig feel free to post and I'll help you out as much to my ability as possible ^_^.
September 18, 2007 7:04:38 PM

Still running around but could you tell me if the corsair hx 520w will fit in the 182? It should be plenty of power because I really have no plans to do SLI and its very quiet.

Also, your right, the Samsung drives are hard to find but a local store has some so I'm going to pick them up today.

Honestly, except for the couple changes you even meantioned like the smaller CPU heatsink (more because its lighter then its size) which has compareable cooling ability and the monitor decision I really like the items you picked. I won't need a CD-DVD Drive because I have 1 I'm transfering already and I will check out those fans you suggested. I have heard they are great for air flow but I am trying to build a very quiet rig (which is 1 reason I don't want a Raptor) so I'll have to compare the fans you picked to a Panaflo for both noise and CFM.

The ram looks great and I probably wouldn't have gone with that brand if it hadn't been suggested. I was looking Corsair as you know but even I noticed the increase in complaints while I was looking around so this is prefect.

I'll comment more later when I have more time but honestly I think I like whats here. I may see if I can get this stuff locally for a similar price while I'm out today. :) 

Thanks
September 18, 2007 7:26:57 PM

Don't get the corsair HX..it isn't PCI-E 8 pin compliant. You can get the cable from Corsair since the HX is modular...but you have to contact them and pay for shipping separately....Not very convenient. Plus...The corsair HX is a tier 2 power supply. The Silverstone Decathalon are Tier 1 power supplies. They are better quality. Tier 1 is the best you can get. They have a 650 watt and 750 watt version like I stated. If you want nab the 650 watt version from NCIX.com also..it goes for 170 canadian instead of the 850 watts 230. You end up saving 60 Canadian.

Don't get panaflo fans..The S-Flex fans are QUIETER!..The lowest panaflo CFM fan is 68.9 CFM's...It has a 30 DBA rating. The Sony s-flex SFF21F has a 63.7 CFM rating at 28 DBA. With their SFF21E model at 49 CFM's with a 20.1 DBA rating. The choice is yours on which you want. But the sony fans are quieter. right now I have two 110 CFM fans in my rig and that are at like 40 DBA...and they are loud. If you want an ultra quiet computer. Just nab the ones I linked in your rig. The 49 CFM fans with the 20.1 DBA rating. If you want ultra quiet I'd nab like 4-6 of those. Replace them in your case as well as placing one of them on a thermalright ultra 120....If you go with the 90 version I believe the clip still works with the 120 fans..But maybe not..if that's the case you might want to nab a panaflo..but keep in mind the smaller the fan the faster it has to rotate...the faster it rotates the more noise..The panaflow 90mm and 80mm fans are quieter though then their larger 120 versions. But a SFF21E 49CFM 20.1 DBA fan is still quieter then their quietest 80/90 mm models while pushing more air as well. Choice is yours.

When I said even farther above and beyond....my rig is going to be a Cooler Master 832 Stacker case...with all 10 fan slots filled with the SFF21F fans...rofl. I'm also going to nab two 5.25 fan controllers to control them all. All full blast while I'm gaming and low while I'm sleeping. ^.^...I'll probably get that rig water cooled or maybe a thermalright ultra 120 with a SFF21F fan...But I'll probably end up WC'ing

Regarding Corsair..I should of been more detailed. Their Dominator modules use D9 Micron..While their cheaper solutions have switched to low quality chips..IC's if I'm not mistaken....Not very good at all. The OCZ modules are top notch..But a bit pricey. You can nab the Crucial Ballistix which will also do the job that I linked in the post. But it's up to you really. If you get Corsair Dominators you'll be fine. They are both quite similar..OCZ and Corsair...Service wise that is. But ever since I nabbed these OCZ modules I was happy with their performance...Their RMA service is also bar none..most of the time they'll give you newer, faster modules if the memory you have is a bit dated when you RMA...and with their lifetime warranty..pretty much a steal. They both have lifetime warranties...And they are both 5-5-5-15 modules. But yea..Choice is yours..If you want top notch Dominators and those Reaper modules are great. Crucial Ballistix is also fantastic for the price..D9 micron. Keep in mind though that you don't need crazy modules if you're not going to OC a lot. The d9 microns are great OC'ers for their price. If you aren't going to push your OC to the limit then crucial Ballistix will do you fine.They go damn far as is.

Dominator modules and The Reapers are mostly meant to OC as far as possible. Which explains their price tag.
September 18, 2007 7:53:35 PM

Fans: By your will master! ;)  No seriously, if you say they are better I believe you. :) 

PSU: I checked out the Silverstone Decathalon and its noise output is still good so I'm quite fine with the change. I may get the 650w since I doubt I'll ever go even close to that.

Monitor: Still thinking.... ;)  I just finnished school and will be working on a portfolio. I do use Photoshop but mainly just for texturing some stuff. I also use this as my gaming rig so I would probably say that my % of what is more important to me in Gaming vs Artwork I would say its

60% Gaming / 40% Artwork

Once I get my portfolio finnished and get a job I will be doing all my work for that company at their office so I don't need to worry about that. I am thinking I can always color correct my stuff somewhere else after I am done it if I need too and while its not a perfect solution it doesn't interfere with my gaming. Honestly this is a hard choice, gaming and art have 180% opposite needs in this case. I did see this review that I would like you to look at this 1 page.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=637&page=4

It reviews the Dell IPS vs the Samsung TN.

I also found the part about ghosting interesting. Although each person is different as you've said, the ghosting according to their test was WORSE on the TN then the IPS even though the TN had a much better GTG speed.

Edit: forgot to add that I won't be getting either of these because of their size but I though the comparision was interesting.
September 18, 2007 8:14:20 PM

Indeed...Regarding ghosting...Just because you have a fast TN monitor doesn't mean it will be better in terms of ghosting either. It's about the overall complete product. It does help drastically but every aspect ties in......I'm somewhat interested though that they experience ghosting on it...I'mma give it a deeper read to see their explanation

But...The 2007WFP is a good monitor...BUT....Dell has become scandalous with their Panel lottery. The 2007FWP isn't only in IPS!..those bastages. They have PVA/MVA models also which is not written on the box. You have to find out by the product code.

2007 WFP A03 - Panel code RT803: S-IPS LG.Philips LM201W01: - Overwhelming evidence)
2007 WFP A03 - Panel code PM330: S-PVA Samsung LTM201M1: Strong evidence)
2007 FP A03 - Panel Code UW473: S-PVA Samsung LTM201U1: Proof, someone disassembled )
2007 FP A03 - Panel Code HN210: S-IPS LG.Philips LM201U05: Suspected, process of elimination.

Very cruel stuff. The new 2008WFP which is to replace the 2007WFP (same size..20 inches)...Is switching to a TN panel.....Really bad day for IPS really. The market is dying for them since they cost more. But they have a lot of benefits in their technology that people just don't understand. Everyone thinks all flatpanels are the same when they are categorized in many different panel types. Sad to see honestly...

Honestly though..The High Gamut display of the 2407WFP-HC from dell. They are nice monitors although ghosting might be an issue for you. It all depends on if you see it or not. If you have a laptop you can always go and check it out in person before you buy. They might even be nice enough to let you hook up the display to your laptop to test a game or something...But yea..picking out a monitor is tough when you have to deal with the faults of LCD...makes it difficult.

Gaming on wide gamut monitors is nice though. It makes the colors extremely lush. Especially for very vibrant games....I can't even imagine what it would be like to play Aion: The Tower of Eternity (A new MMORPG coming out) on a wide gamut display...it must be extremely beautiful. But curse the problems with LCD..Since I do video editing I really can't get a LCD monitor...which is why I'mma nab a FW900 till FED.
September 18, 2007 8:58:49 PM

You seem to know pretty much everything (no seriously, that wasn't sarcasim).

so maybe you could answer a question I posted on another board


Hi, I'm building a new computer and since I don't have an HDTV I want to use my new LCD Monitor (whichever I get) to play my Xbox360 in HD. My problem is that on my current system I can't send my 360's sound through my Logitech Speakers. I wanted to know if there is an X-FI model that has a port on the back (or front for the high end model) that will allow me to run my Xbox sound somehow through my computer so it comes out my Logitech Speakers.

Thanks!
September 18, 2007 9:08:23 PM

I'd be alot more comfortable paying $1000 for that 26" you meantioned if I could actually see it in action but theres not much chance of that happening... I figure though, that if I spend that much on a monitor now, in 3-4 years when I get my next computer that $1000 system will be junk, ok average at best and I bet then I'd be able to pick up BETTER 26" wide screen monitors for the price of an extra value meal. ;) 
September 18, 2007 9:35:18 PM

You are looking for a HDMI To DVI + Digital Audio converter.

They are pricey though..Very pricey..Here are a few. But it really depends. What type of speakers are you going to hook up to?..Optical? SPDIF?...Here are two that can do the job..

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3939

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ATLONA-HDMI-TO-DVI-DIGITAL-AUDIO-CONVERTER-p-17065.html

They also have the opposite as well...DVI + Digital Audio To HDMI.

True on the prices on LCD's. The Planar 26" is a good monitor although not near the level of the Nec 2490/2690 which cost an arm and a leg. 1500, 1700, respectively. If FED does take off since it is cheaper to produce, almost eliminates dead pixels since 20% of the emitters have to fail to even notice pixel loss, elimination of ghosting and input lag thx to it's CRT format technology....Overall very strong aspect. But SED was very similar and got shutdown due to a patent issue with Nano technology if I'm not mistaken. But I think Sony's will come through fine. They displayed it next to a Trinitron CRT and it was just wow...Also the 20:000:1 dynamic ratio is pretty spiffy. Probably Dynamic but even so it's still quite high.

Choice is yours though. If you want to take the chance of getting a refurbished FW900 go for it...

www.accurateit.com

Check out the 24 inch crt..If you do decide to get one make sure you get the A- grade model. 699 us currency for it. Comes with a 1 year warranty for a refurbished model. Not bad...the A- grade basically means only wearing on the plastic. But no cracks...screen has no blemished as well. It's also tuned for factory spec. From what I've heard the company is extremely enthusiastic about this monitor. When I'm going to purchase my new rig going to call them up and see how enthusiastic they are....Probably going to nab one of those with another refurbished 22 incher as a 2nd display...It'll end up costing me about a grand for it..Unless I get a FW900 + a FW9012...Which will be two 24 inch widescreens with a year warranty on each. I would nab two fw900 but 1400 is a bit much...Heck 1200 is a bit much. I might just nab a FW900 and a 22 incher to keep it under a grand.

The upside is they are fantastic monitors and it eliminates all the downside of LCD....downside is they are refurbished since you can't get them new anymore..but a 1 year warranty aint bad.,....It would just suck if it dies early on. But I'm going to take that chance since I dislike TFT's...

edit---

Wait..I got confused on your xbox question...lol..give me a moment to update..

Wait..NVM it is correct. Your XBox HDMI output into the converter...DVI to your monitor and digital output to your speakers if they support it. You might have to get new speakers to support the form of output....optical out or SPDIF....If you have a soundcard that can support an input of SPDIF, or optical, as well as an output, you could run it through your computer with the right software settings. But you'd have to have your computer on the entire time as well to do so. If your computer shares the monitor with the xbox 360 you might want to invest also into a switch box but it may degrade video quality. It basically runs two DVI connectors into one small box..That then runs to a single monitor. It has a switch that allows you to switch signals between the two PC's...in your case PC and Xbox 360...While the audio of course either runs from the HDMI converter to either your speakers...Or a sound card that has SPDIF/Optical In, as well as an output to your speakers..Then you have to adjust the software settings to patch it through....Hope that wasn't too confusing.
September 18, 2007 10:30:50 PM

The regular Xbox 360s don't have HDMI except for the 360 Elite and the new premiums. The old box's like the one I have only have the older connection methods. Heres a link I just found now that lists the ways you can hook it up to a TV.

http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/CustomerCare/InternetSupport/Residential/GameConsoleSupport/Xbox360/ConnectingToATV.htm

Connecting your Xbox 360 to your TV (AV Connector)
Connecting your Xbox 360 to your TV (S-Video Connector)
Connecting your Xbox 360 to an HDTV (Component)
Connecting your Xbox 360 to an HDTV (VGA)

What I currently have for my CRT is an Xbox to Monitor VGA Cable that hooks into the back of the Xbox and then to a port on the back of the Monitor. Ofcourse most monitors don't have speakers... :) 

September 19, 2007 12:12:21 AM

Ahh...So you have a Xbox 360 to VGA + Audio (White/Red) connector? Such as this?

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/

What connector do your speakers have?

If you wish to take the route of not switching wires constantly you can use this method... 3.5 (1/8) male to rca female connector. Such as the one here.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/pc-stereo-adapters.html

It's the one on the right. For your sound card place it in the microphone or line in jack. Then setup your audio software that comes with your sound card to filter it through. Or you can use the sounds and audio devices in your control panel if the audio software doesn't have anything. Just used the "Advaned" button on the volumes tab. Once the audio controls pop up click options then properties. You can then click on microphone/line in (based on your soundcard) to add the audio volume control to the menu behind this pop up. Click ok...Then turn the volume on the microphone to max. It should filter through onto your speakers then. This way you won't have to change wires with the xbox and pc to your speakers. You might have a slight decrease in quality but the easy setup makes it worth it. All you need then is a dual VGA connector switch box. Let's you hook up two VGA connectors to one monitor. With a switch of a button you can switch sources.

Hope that helps...This will work well unless you want to hook your xbox 360 directly to you speakers. If that's the case I'd need to know the speakers connection method.

Yes that monitor does swivel, tilt, and have height adjustment. Regarding the response time. The monitor has a 8 ms rise and ms fall time..which ends up being 16 ms. Rise and fall basically means the time it takes to go from one color to another...then back down to the original. This is how they're rated for response times. The MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) of the monitor is 12 MS...with a grey to grey (GTG) of 6 ms.

It gets pretty technical. If you want a explanation of everything you can check out.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ Click specifications then reponse times....Should explain everything.
a c 365 U Graphics card
a c 196 C Monitor
September 19, 2007 12:40:11 AM

Darkmatterx said:
Hey according to this store the BenQ does have height adjustment. Scroll 2/3 way down to Features. But its response time is 16ms. wtf?

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3025419&Sku=B145-2400%20CA


The BenQ FP241WZ has a 6ms response time. Tiger Direct is incorrect. This was one of three 24" LCD monitors at the top of my list before I decided to buy the Planar PX2611W a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, I got downsized so once I land a full time job I will place my order for the Planar.

However, I am also considering the uber NEC LCD2690WUXi-BK 26" LCD monitor.

Below are links to a few BenQ FP241WZ reviews (which uses an 8-bit S-PVA panel):

BeHardware: BenQ FP241WZ

TrustedReview.com

24" Showdown



September 19, 2007 1:02:04 AM

Stop all the confusion, this is crazy where everybody trying to figure it out which montior is the best for 24". I have BenQ 24" FP241VW which is the best monitor I ever own and is the best monitor in the world for best quality picture and accurate colors.. Trust me you'll love this monitor and you won't regret for having this montior. Keep in mind that try to keep the setting Perfect motion on 2 ( movies, internet, & videos) or 3 for Games or fast pace actions sports like racing. Also, be sure to use Belkin DVI Dual link Cable ( md# AV51400-04) or use HDMI Monster Cable ( md# M-Series-( Model# M1000 HD-4 ) instead of cheap cable that came with the Montior or Graphic card which they are only worth a dollar. You will noticed when you look at the DVI single link cable came w/ the montior has only 18 pins and when you buy Belkin DVI Dual link cable it has 24pins which give you higher resolutions and higher colors bits.
September 19, 2007 1:23:37 AM

lol...This is the type of purchasing I was talking about. I won't doubt the FP241WZ is a good monitor. I've heard many good things. BUT..It's not the best monitor in the world...Especially for color accuracy. Just to think a PVA/MVA monitor being compared to the H-IPS panel of a nec2690 WUXI makes me a bit nauseous...lol...

But yea...It's a good monitor...but obviously not "the best in the world"...Professional displays such Nec 2690WUXI, 2490WUXI, ... are priced roughly 1,000 more for a reason...

If you are interested in learning a complete breakdown of TFT technology you can check out this link.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

A lot to learn but worth it.
September 19, 2007 1:32:12 AM

isn't the BenQ WZ to fast (response time) to be a PVA? I thought they were really slow? I actually didn't WANT a PVA/MVA because of their slow times and problems of darks "crushing" other colours... Hmm
September 19, 2007 1:35:15 AM

To Kamrooz- I was talking about overall price/performace ratios which give the Benq 24" the best buy, because like other montiors where probably is a little better but would you spend a lot of money on other montiors that is only a little better and spend over thoundsand of dollars which is nut.
September 19, 2007 1:36:54 AM

Read this link for a description of the panel types and differences..

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222

And this one as well...Click specifications...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

Wildtech-

It's more then a little better to be honest. Every panel has strong points and weak points. There is no perfect LCD panel out there...period. That's the truth...You have to shop for the strong points that relate to you.
September 19, 2007 1:42:16 AM

Oh Also, they don't have the PSU you suggested. Can you find some alternatives that will fit in the P182 at this store? They also need to be modular.

http://www.canadacomputers.com

Once I have some names I can find some reviews for noise levels since I want them to be quiet.

Thanks!
September 19, 2007 1:52:00 AM

HP 24" HP LP2465 is very nice. Costco has them with an entire E6550 system for $1199. was looking at it today. The system with that monitor, cpu and Vista Premium is worth buying even if you want to upgarde more. It is even a VIIV machine with all the extras. Plus 2 year onsite warranty.
September 19, 2007 2:12:24 AM

Unfortunately that site/shop only has outdated PSU's...They don't carry any of the new models that have 8 pin PCI-E connectors. So you are pretty much out of luck. They do have the Corsair HX line...Your only choice would be to buy one of those and call Corsair for them to ship you a 8 pin PCI-E cable since it's modular. They'll charge you for shipping though.

But if that's the case you might as well buy The other PSU since it's a Tier 1 from the shop. Considering the Corsair HX is Tier two it'd be smarter to nab a Silverstone DA 650.

Is it even any cheaper for you to run around and buy them in shops?..By the time you gather all the parts you could of just ordered them all and received them...lol. I always buy my parts online..I can get them cheaper and I know they have what I want...makes it easier ^_^.
a c 365 U Graphics card
a c 196 C Monitor
September 19, 2007 2:31:15 AM

Darkmatterx said:
isn't the BenQ WZ to fast (response time) to be a PVA? I thought they were really slow? I actually didn't WANT a PVA/MVA because of their slow times and problems of darks "crushing" other colours... Hmm


Actually, 6ms is standard for 24" MVA/PVA monitors because they all use some type of "Overdrive" technology where the pixels are over-volted so that they will change colors more rapidly than normal. Unfortunately, this brings a degree of color inaccuracy, but for the most people it will not be noticeable.

There are 24" LCD monitors that list 5ms response times, but those monitors uses the inferior TN panel. While monitors using TN panels may be less expensive, they also have less color accuracy than MVA/PVA panels and compared to a S-IPS panel, it will be a smackdown. TN panels will also have narrower viewing angles and blacks will not be "as black" as the other type of panel technologies.

Older TN panels also had issues when displaying HD video especially in underwater scenes where you could see visible artifacts. Not sure if the latest generation of TN panels have overcome this problem. Lastly, TN panels have traditionally been 6-bit color, but there has been talk of 8-bit TN panels coming out. Not sure if they are out yet 'cause I haven't read anything about them. MVA/PVA/S-IPS panels are 8-bit panels.
September 19, 2007 3:00:13 AM

Ok thanks.

Kamrooz, what about here.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca

As for shipping vs local. I can save money picking it up. that first store you were at gives a discount if you pay cash, also we already pay 14% tax. We don't have Newegg either which is a big shipper so I'm guessing they offer free shipping for big orders. These smaller companies don't usually do that. Also I want my new system Nooooowwwww! lol ;) 
September 19, 2007 3:07:20 AM

lol. No shame in that. We don't really get free shipping from newegg but most of the price saving equals out...But most stores overcharge up the tush...Not many small stores in the states....All the big stores overcharge except for certain things like memory and hard drives...although they don't really have the biggest selection...so we're left with online shopping for precise shopping.

Here you go!..Tier 1 goodness, two PCI-E 6 pin plugs and one PCI-E 8 pin plug...

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2929621&CatId=1483

^_^...enjoy
September 19, 2007 3:15:11 AM

I have one of the older Dell 24" lcd's with 12ms panel and I get no ghosting, they are good panels, also the BenQ LCD's look amazing :) 
September 19, 2007 4:53:52 AM

hows the blackness "Crushing" with the BenQ WZ? On top of the slowness that is apparently corrected now with new tech theres the fact that the MVA/PVA screens tend to lose darker shades in the blackness. Is it a noticeable problem with this monitor?
!