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Why can't amd build something like the dual socket x-38?

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  • CPUs
  • Socket
  • Motherboards
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September 2, 2007 7:03:11 PM

That motherboard is gonna be sweet, 2 socket 775 on one motherboard for less than 200 dollars, thats gonna be a monster. I remember myself having a dual socket pentium pro, and dual socket 370 motherboards where popluar for a time. I even remeber back in the good socket a days you could use 2 durons on a dual socket a p motherboard. So why isnt amd working on a equivilant motherboard for am2+, instead of making people go to a whole new socket with limited upgradablility? Also, on another subject, what happened to plans for the montreal processor(2 quads fused into a 8 core cpu, like intel did with it's quads), havent heard a word about it.

More about : amd build dual socket

September 2, 2007 7:29:12 PM

Because AMD decided to separate their high end and low-to-mid range CPU platforms following the release of the Core 2 Quads, into Socket AM2 and Socket F(X?). Socket F also being known as Quad FX platform, it is designed with the high end user in mind it appears (It's a AMD nVidia 680 motherboard chipset) and was also designed for Phenoms (its other name was 4x4).

If you want a dual socket AM2 board, you'll have to settle with a dual socket Socket F board (At least some of the processors aren't horribly priced... the only problem is that like most of AMD's higher end processors, they have a ridiculously high wattage requirement... 250watts on processors alone in Socket F system at times)

Besides, I didn't even think it was confirmed that X38 was going to release with a dual chip version? I thought it was still a rumour... plus, with the rumours of a x48 motherboard, that could in fact be our dual socket LGA775 board.

AMD hasn't even gotten its phenoms and barcelonas (Quad cores) out yet, so don't hold your breath for an 8 core processor! It'll probably be released a quarter or two after Phenom gets out some decent clock speeds...

Edit: Typoes abound!
September 2, 2007 7:53:12 PM

Hmm... I didn't even hear about this... I wish they would do something like this for the Xeons... Well.. guess I'll have to keep watching the news for this kind of stuff.
September 2, 2007 8:02:38 PM

Intel already does this for Xeons, Socket 771 supports dual-quadcore Xeons already.
September 2, 2007 8:31:33 PM

@reconviper one1,

Do you have a link to a product page for this motherboard?
September 3, 2007 2:00:59 AM

I've been looking, I originally read about the motherboard on theinquirer.net, it's called skulltrail there, and i think it's for socket 771, but while surfing today i also read about a dual socket 775 based n the x38 or x-48 chipset. My history erases after i log ogg so i couldnt get it from my history. I'll keep looking, it sounds like a coo l concept, that amd shoud follow.
September 3, 2007 2:12:42 AM

AMD claims that non-monolithic quad-cores are a rushed to market approach yet they release Quad FX which is even worse because it is dual socket, at least intel made their quad core look like one
September 3, 2007 2:18:38 AM

AMD also claims their quad core is better than Intels. I still cant find that particular unicorn on the retailers web sites, so I guess I'll just have to take AMD's word for it.
September 3, 2007 3:19:31 AM

Hpefully the fasn8 with 2 65nm quads will be a better and less power hungry solution.
a c 105 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
September 3, 2007 5:03:31 AM

Quote:
That motherboard is gonna be sweet, 2 socket 775 on one motherboard for less than 200 dollars, thats gonna be a monster.


Are the 775 chips used in this motherboard going to have to be "special" 775s that have the right CPUID bit set to be able to work with the motherboard? Or are we going to see a redux of the ABIT BP6 and friends, where one could make a dual-CPU unit with Celeron 300As for half the price of of "proper" expensive dual Slot 1 PIIs and PII Xeons setup? If any 775 chip would work, I'd be very tempted to buy one and load it up with two Q6600s and pay less than half of the cost of a dual Xeon E5345 and get better performance (and also avoid FB-DIMMs.)

Quote:
I remember myself having a dual socket pentium pro, and dual socket 370 motherboards where popluar for a time. I even remeber back in the good socket a days you could use 2 durons on a dual socket a motherboard.


The PPros were expensive chips on a very unique socket- that's no different from the LGA 771 and Socket F units out there now. The 370s could use standard Pentium III CPUs though. But the real poor-man's setup was a pair of Celeron 300As on a dual Slot 1 mobo or trace-modded Athlon XP-Ms in a dual Socket A motherboard.

Quote:
So why isnt amd working on a equivilant motherboard for am2+, instead of making people go to a whole new socket with limited upgradablility?


First, AMD isn't working on a dual AM2+ motherboard as the AM2+ socket only has pinouts for one HT link- to the chipset. Any dual-CPU AMD K8 or 10h setup needs not only that one HT link to the chipset but another to the other CPU for NUMA. To wire the AM2+ socket for DP operation, you'd need enough not connected (seen as "NC" in the pinout) pins to handle the other HT link. I don't know how many pins are NC, but I think HT needs about forty. Could it be done? Maybe. But why do that when Socket F is already around and working perfectly for that purpose?

Intel can get away with a dual socket setup as the socket just needs its power and FSB link. The CPU doesn't care if there is a second or split FSB emnating from the northbridge or not as it will behave the same. All you need is the proper chipset to handle two sockets.

And one more thing- the Socket L1 boards used for the Quad FX are simply Socket F sockets and the board will even support regular Opterons. There is some upgradeability as only a memory incompatibility will force AMD to change the socket, so the L1 sockets have some life left in them as DDR3 is not supposed to require a socket change. Plus, 775 is dead after the Wolfdales and Yorkfields ship anyway, so I think that the AMD socket will have a longer lifespan.

Quote:
Also, on another subject, what happened to plans for the montreal processor(2 quads fused into a 8 core cpu, like intel did with it's quads), havent heard a word about it.


Patience, grasshopper. AMD hasn't even officially offered any quad-core CPUs for sale yet, let alone dual-quad 8-core CPUs. However, I did read that AMD has shipped some shipments of the Barcelonas for revenue in August and will start to sell them on the 11th. We'll see dual-quad-core AMD CPUs when AMD decides to show them and no earlier. AMD must have a stricter rein on their ESes than Intel does, or perhaps Intel intentionally lets a few go to stir up excitement among the fans.
September 3, 2007 5:50:00 AM

lol,

MU, go check out TCs link.
September 3, 2007 7:23:35 AM

As MU said.
Also AMD have integrated memory controler, whitch makes situation even more complicated, but hey there are 2,4 or even 8 sockets board for those who wana spent money on them.
And about power consumption, optys are server CPUs same as xeons witch also take a lot of power.
September 3, 2007 2:19:10 PM

@reconviper one1.

The S5000Xvx uses the 5XXX series Xeon CPU, which, if I'm not mistaken, is Socket 771, not 775.
September 4, 2007 1:17:35 AM

xrodney said:
As MU said.
Also AMD have integrated memory controler, whitch makes situation even more complicated, but hey there are 2,4 or even 8 sockets board for those who wana spent money on them.
And about power consumption, optys are server CPUs same as xeons witch also take a lot of power.
I am aware of that, but the article said that a modified dual socket x-38 motherborard was coming down the line
September 4, 2007 1:36:46 AM

reconviperone1 said:
I am aware of that, but the article said that a modified dual socket x-38 motherborard was coming down the line


The X38 chipset does not support 2 sockets. You need a chipset for the Xeon family if you want Dual Sockets. The Skull Trail motherboard is a Dual Socket one based off the Seaburg Chipset.
September 4, 2007 1:56:46 AM

reconviperone1 said:
I am aware of that, but the article said that a modified dual socket x-38 motherborard was coming down the line

dual channel DDR2 / DDR3 split across 2 FSB's + all other IO will put a big load on the chipset.
AMD 4x4 system has dual dual channel ram and 2 full HT links to the chip set with a CPU to CPU HT link with room for HTX slots.
September 4, 2007 4:30:00 AM

Joe_The_Dragon said:
dual channel DDR2 / DDR3 split across 2 FSB's + all other IO will put a big load on the chipset.
AMD 4x4 system has dual dual channel ram and 2 full HT links to the chip set with a CPU to CPU HT link with room for HTX slots.


The Seaburg Chipset has a snoop filter and 2 independent FSB's. The only problem is that it only works with FB-DIMM's. On the Skull Trail board it is supposed to have 4 channels of memory connected through the 16MB snoop filter to ensure both processors caches are synched.

It also is suppose to support SLI. A first for an Intel motherboard.
September 4, 2007 2:11:44 PM

pausert20 said:
The Seaburg Chipset has a snoop filter and 2 independent FSB's. The only problem is that it only works with FB-DIMM's. On the Skull Trail board it is supposed to have 4 channels of memory connected through the 16MB snoop filter to ensure both processors caches are synched.

It also is suppose to support SLI. A first for an Intel motherboard.

Skulltrail FB-DIMMs running upward of DDR2-1000 speed and lower latency like CL4
DUAL FSB1600 The chipset will give off a lot of heat and the FB-DIMMs will also likely give a lot of heat as well.

4 X16 slot but only 2 X16 pci-e 2.0 ones will the other just x8 or x4 in a x16 slot like other 4 slot x16 boards?

ATI 790X Dual or single AMD CPU configuration will have The Dual cpu set up may even 2 ATI 790X chips like the nvidia 4x4 board
Allowing maximum of four physical PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots [4] at x8 lanes bandwidth
Discrete PCI-E x4 slot
Providing a total of 52 PCI-E lanes
Support for HTX slots
and HT 3.0
Northbridge runs at 3 W when idle, and maximum 10 W under load

NVIDIA MCP72
MCP72XE dual cpu may have 2x MCP72XE
support two PCI Express 2.0 x16 lanes for two (or more)
three PCIe 2.0 x1 lanes for other expansions.
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