DX10 games are out, and I'm running them all under DX9...

[V8VENOM]

Having done a lot of testing with new DX10 titles, I'm coming to the conclusion that:

1. DX10 API has got problems
2. DX10 graphics hardware has got problems
3. Nobody understands how to use DX10 API effectively yet
4. Vista x86 and x64 is broken
5. ATI/nVidia drivers are crap

Which of these is true or perhaps a combination, but the end result is Vista as being a really bad choice for a gaming OS.

The Test games:

Lost Planet
World in Conflict
BioShock

Every single one of these titles can be made to look better under their DX9 versions and run at least 2X to 3X faster. I have noticed some very minor difference between the two DX10 and DX9 titles but the differences are so so so small as they really do not detract from image quality nor game play and they certainly aren't woth the 2X/3X performance hit incurred by DX10.

I've been testing away using both ATI and nVidia top end cards (SLI and Crossfire) and to say that I'm serious unimpressed is putting it mildly.

Sadly, if this is a reason to move to Vista, then I can see much disappointed.

From what I've seen of the Crysis Beta -- it will only be worse under DX10 not better.

Houston -- do we have a problem? I can understand the "maturing" of DX10 API and DX10 hardware, but I can't see this making up 2X/3X current performance difference between DX9 and DX10.

Who's to blame here? This really does want to make go out and by a console -- and I hate consoles. From a consumers perspective I can't see any reason to spend money on DX10 anything.

What a shame.

 

[Hatman]

Its mainly sli/xfire drivers which arent great in Vista atm, but cmon give it time. Anyway Vista is much better then XP at most things expect gaming, and if I didnt lose nearly 20% of ym gaming performance in it, id be in it still.

 

[Heyyou27]

Who's to blame here? This really does want to make go out and by a console -- and I hate consoles. From a consumers perspective I can't see any reason to spend money on DX10 anything.

I have an Xbox360 and Wii. Gears of War can be a lot of fun, and the graphics are damn good too, if not the best out there. Dead Rising is also a blast; I mean seriously, who doesn't love killing zombies? You can also stream all your media through the Media Center extender, or stream music while in game with Media Player 11 or Zune. The Wii isn't quite there as fun, but it's got some decent party titles. Sure I prefer to play games on my PC, but game consoles can provide a nice gaming experience too.

 

[ethel]

Blimey, you make so many overly generalised statements here, I don't know what to call you on.

OK, where do you get the evidence that DX10 runs 2-3X as slow? Certainly not Bioshock on the 8800GTX (and don't mention Lost Planet it is just a poorly ported XBox game).

DX10 is still immature - it will take quite some time for its potential to be realised in game engines, just like it did with DX9.

In the meantime, you can buy a X1950XT and get fast DX9 graphics, but a 8800GTX is even faster in DX9, and you get DX10 effects too if you want them.

 

[emp]

Actually Lost Planet runs horribly on both DX9 and DX10, but runs better on DX10 than it does on DX9... Bioshock only gets a 5% performance penalty at most for utilizing DX10 and soft particles do help the image quality.

Haven't had the pleasure of using World in Conflict yet, I should get it within a week, by then I'll have some insight on the game.

 

[physx7]

DX10 is still immature - it will take quite some time for its potential to be realised in game engines, just like it did with DX9.

I agree!

 

[T8RR8R]

To be honest thing are still pretty immature. Vista, and the G80's aren't even a year old and DX10 games are just barely out the door, much less out of the womb.

I think that in a year from now, we'll start to see alot more only DX10 games, and alot more of Vista's retardations will be resolved. Also there will be newer hardware by that time as well as more DX10 enhancements too.

 

[V8VENOM]

I've only listed three games (not many to really "call me on" -- but there aren't many titles out).

Have you run the Crysis 2nd Beta? OMG what a dog when you turn on AA/AF. In fact, just about any DX10 title with AA/AF turn on (even just 2X) drastically reduces performance.

As far as BioShock - yes I get good DX10 fps also -- but I have yet been able to turn on AA in DX10 using either ATI or nVidia -- even at 1920 x 1080 I want some AA and AF -- I'd settle on just 4X/4X, but if you can get AA to work in BioShock on either ATI or nVidia under DX10 then please fill me in on the secret.

World in Conflict DX10 doesn't support Crossfire at all and had only minor improvements under nVidia SLI (and I'm not sure that was due to SLI) and this is a "Best on nVidia title".

The only time I can get any of those DX10 titles to run at "ok" fps is when AA is turned OFF (again doesn't matter if this is ATI or nVidia in SLI or Crossfire).

The Cyrsis developers are our current best hope as they support multiple GPU and multiple CPU -- unfortunately their Beta is great if you don't turn on AA (familiar theme). Don't know about you, but it has been a long time since I ran any title without AA (or for that matter below 4X). Turning AA on (or up) in DX9 does not cause the same drastic drop in FPS as these current DX10 variants do. I'll take AA any day over a slightly improved shadow or marginally better fog/smoke.

DX10 is marketing hype (I know we all knew that) that looks like a collaboration of Microsoft, nVidia, and ATI -- yeah Vista is nice, so long as you don't play any games on it using DX10. I do like Vista and most of my DX9 titles work great under it with only about a 10% performance hit.

DX9 was NOT crap out of the gate, it was about the same as DX8 and didn't cause major performance problems when certain features were enabled. DX9 was an evolution and developers caught up quickly. What is going on with DX10 almost a year after release is a disaster -- something is wrong with DX10 and it's not just a matter of "maturing" software/hardware. Improved drivers, nor improved game engines can make up this current DX10 AA problem.

Just looks at many of the posts here and elsewhere -- many folks are reverting back to XP for gaming or running the DX9 version rather than the DX10 version under Vista. Not sure how this is any type of "show case" for DX10 and Vista?

Anyway, I really would be interested what you folks are getting with AA turned to min 4X on these DX10 titles at higher resolutions (beyond 1280 x 1024) without having turn down all graphics options (leaving them at high or max).

 

[mactronix]

Apparently if you have XP you can emulate DX10 effects on vista all you have to do is install a E6600 and remove about half off your ram :lol:

Seriously though Vista has its faults but sooner or later we will all end up running it as more and more stuff will be only Vista compatible. I know it will be a while but i will be looking at a new machine next year and don't want vista due to its problems but don't want to be having to buy it a year later either.
On the Dx10 side of things well Vista SP1 is bringing in DX10.1 so who knows even if DX10 will be given a chance to mature.
Given everything that's up in the air at the min ie every thing i think its safer to say stuff the lot of it and keep running XP with a decent DX9 card like a 8800gts.
On a side note do you think its possible to make a card that will only run DX10 and upwards?

 

[shargrath]

What about World in Conflict?

 

[blade85]

Im no Vista fan (I still use XP myself) but i think it has come a fair way since it was released. But yes i agree dx10 is still very immature.

Here are some comparisons: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_vista_driver_performance_update/

 

[speedbird]

I think that in a year from now, we'll start to see alot more only DX10 games

Perhaps, but I doubt games will require DX10 hardware only for sometime to come. A game developer releasing a game that will only run for a minority of users with such hardware is not a good move.

 

[Jase555]

Im no Vista fan (I still use XP myself) but i think it has come a fair way since it was released. But yes i agree dx10 is still very immature.

Here are some comparisons: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_vista_driver_performance_update/

I agree. I have to use vista ultimate all day at work and have been trying to like it since June. The fact is I just don't like it. For me it gives me nothing that 'I' could not do under XP and it takes longer to do it. boot times, opening a spreadsheet or word document, the windows explorer, copy and replace dialogs etc etc. UAC drives me mad. Every time I run visual studio 2005 it warns me. At some point this becomes an obsessive anoyance.

Anyway I am putting together a new machine over the next couple of months and it is going to have XP on it for gaming and everything else. I can put up with a little less glitter and wait for Vista maturity. come feb 2008 and sp1 I will look again.

 

[mannwhite]

Are you sporting the latest drivers etc? I had better framerates in World in conflict under dx10 than under dx9 as well as better graphics. Don't tell me that u had trouble picking up the god rays etc that are available only under dx10. As for dx10 taking a long time to mature, I agree, but the problem is more due to our impatience at having swallowed down all the pre-release hype than to anything else.

 

[systemlord]

DX10 is marketing hype (I know we all knew that) that looks like a collaboration of Microsoft, nVidia, and ATI --

Now thats pure crap coming out of you mouth and you know it deep down inside, there was no thought behind that statement. I'd like to see some links for your statement above or did you just pull that right out your... :lol:

 

[spuddyt]

what I found funny, was that on the "games for windows" website they were comparing dx9 and 10 that is, DX9 FROM HALO 1 TO DX10 FROM CRYSIS I MEAN WTF!!

 

[Maziar]

It will take 1-2 or even more years for games to be fully DX10 optimized

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

Oh..... come on it's never been DX10 it's the damn Vista

 

[spuddyt]

hmm... they are in many ways one in the same thing though I suspect Vista is more of a problem than programmers progamming dx10 poorly

 

[Heyyou27]

what I found funny, was that on the "games for windows" website they were comparing dx9 and 10 that is, DX9 FROM HALO 1 TO DX10 FROM CRYSIS I MEAN WTF!!

It's funny, because Halo originally came out on the Xbox, which had a Direct X8.0 based GPU.

 

[johnnyq1233]

What are you talkin aboot?
I have lost planet and I'm getting 45 fps in the perfomance test @1280 by 1024 32 bit most options high and others on mid.....
I love this game and it totally kicks the crap out of the X-box!

 

[V8VENOM]

SystemLord,

I wish it were crap, so I'd feel better about spending $2000 on video cards so I can do this testing. Please prove me wrong and show me where DX10 is working for you compared to DX9?

If you think the G92/98 and Intel's Penryn processors will save the day, then good luck to you. I will of course be getting them as soon as they come out but I'm expecting about a 10-20% performance increase from the CPU and I have no idea what the GPU will do but it's specs look A LOT like current 2900XT 1GB cards spec so I don't see miracles there either.

Being a software engineer I also know that you can optimize, but you can't pull off miracles. And what is needed to make DX10 work with AA is a miracle.

But please do post your DX10 AA results vs. DX9 AA results.

In World in Conflict there was one and only one extra DX10 feature "shadows from Clouds" -- nice to have, but not worth a huge drop in FPS.

 

[Annisman]

I have been playin World Inc Conflict for a week now, Looks AMAZING on DX10, NOTICEABLY different than DX9 with excellent frames. With my humble hardware. 8800gtx, e6600, 2gb ram. Dx10 is on the upswing!

 

[emp]

Honestly if you're unable to get DX10 working at acceptable framerates on the titles you mentioned earlier with the kind of hardware you are boasting to have I would have to assume you are nothing short of a computer handicapped user. Please do yourself a favor and ask someone who knows what they're doing to set up the systems for you and then do some benchmarks.

 

[jedimasterben]

Well, I run Lost Planet in DX10 with C8xQ AA and 8x AF with lots of eye candy just fine. 40FPS+ (up to 60 with Vsync). But that's only at 1280x1024. I want widescreen.

It will take a while for it to mature. It was the same with previous DX versions, and will just take some time. So be patient.