Ok... to start off if I read one more review within the next week this new planned PC will have a new delivery address of the closest mental hospital as that will be my new residence for the next few years. I have changed the design on my new PC so much over the past 2 weeks now my small excel spreadsheet with planned parts has turned into compendium of about every single brand, make, model & price of every known part in the universe (well not literally, but it is getting a tad bit overboard) and I have finally decided enough is enough I will post my specs to be picked apart by the masses and let the overall majority decide.

So here it is:

VIDEO 1
EVGA e-Geforce 8800GTX, 768MB, PCI-E $780.00
VIDEO 2
EVGA e-Geforce 8800GTX, 768MB, PCI-E $780.00
CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz/1066FSB) g0 Stepping (SLACR) $350.00
RAM
Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 PC2-6400 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2 Kit $200.00
RAM 2
Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 PC2-6400 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2 Kit $200.00
POWER SUPPLY
Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W Power Supply (W0133) $420.00
CASE
Cooler Master Stacker 831 $285.00
FANS
120mmx2 CoolerMaster Blue LED Silent 120 SI3 $20.00
WATER COOLING
Thermaltake Bigwater 745 Liquid Cooling System $219.00
WATER COOLING 2
Thermaltake Aquabay M5 (CL-W0103) $88.00
WATER COOLING 3
Thermaltake TMG ND4 LCS $88.00
WATER COOLING 4
Thermaltake TMG ND4 LCS $88.00
MOTHERBOARD
ASUS STRIKER EXTREME, 680i SLI, 1333MHz FSB, DDR2-800 $469.00
HDD
WD Caviar SE16 SATA 300 MB/s 500GB $192.50
DVD
LG BLACK 18X +/- RW/RAM DVD SATA Burner (GSA-H62N) $50.00
MONITOR
ViewSonic VX2835wm 28" $890.00
MOUSE
Razer Copperhead (Blue) $91.30
KEYBOARD
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard $84.70
OS
MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM 64-bit OEM $154.00
HEADPHONE
eDimensional AudioFX Pro 5+1 Force Feedback Headset $95.50
SOUND
Creative X-FI Extreme Gamer $200.00
LIGHTING
Thermaltake Blue Cold Cathode Light Kit $20.00


This is an older version of what I now have (sort of) planned... which would be replacing the Bigwater cooling kit with a Thermaltake Kandalf Lcs... and there is where I stumbled across my first problem that still existed with the system I quoted.... I don't have a 2nd or 3rd radiator for my SLI GFX setup

So where do I go from here ? well it dawned upon me I don't really need to water cool my GPU's now that there is less heat blowing off from my CPU cooler onto or near my GFX cards.. but it would be nice to be able to do so and I am just stumped upon how I would do this without some case modding.

If it helps any I have selected a few different cases to choose from which would have to have the Bigwater again (the reason I chose the bigwater set up is it seems simple enough without being abundantly expensive, dito with the Kandalf... anyway here are the other cases I have chosen based upon looks, size (bigger is better in my case as I have plenty of room) and cooling.....

NZXT Zero
Antec Nine Hundred
Lian Li PC-V2000 PLUS II
Lian Li PC-A71

Last 2 are a bit expensive, but if I get aircooling with them (or if my budget permits straight out) I will buy watercooling parts bit by bit for it.

As you can probably tell I plan on overclocking (why else would I bother getting good air cooling or water cooling ), it is for gaming and finally my supply chain of parts is pretty limited as I am in Australia and unless I really, really go over my budget I wont be buying "the best" parts possible (but with the basic system I have tried to go for parts based upon good reviews so unless you can really convince me that it wont be needed or I can get better for cheaper or whatever really I don't think I will change them too much... but feel free to offer advice on them)... oh and my budget is absolute max $6000AU, with a minimum of $5000AU.

Finally I can buy 2 8800GTX's @ $768AU ea (around ($630USD) or I can get a single or dual evga ULTRA's @ $898AU ea ($736USD)... I have been turned off on getting ULTRA's after reading alot of reviews and would need strong convincing that the price difference between the 2 over here in Aus isn't that great and I should go for the ULTRA's anyway... especially "if" I am getting water cooling for the GTX's to OC to about 630 core clock safely ($768 GTX + $88 VGA block + $xx radiator price whatever that may be)... I can OC the ULTRA's with their standard cooling to above what I can clock the water cooled GTX's (well thats my belief) and it saves me a lot of hassle searching for the right water cooling parts.

All prices/parts are in $AU and are mostly from http://www.extremepc.com.au except for a few select items.

So masses pick apart as you will, I will chime in from time to time over the next 2 days and hopefully by then my decision will be reached.

Thank you in advance to anyone that can assist me as I really am driving myself up the wall looking for the right build... sleep time

ViewSonic VX2835wm 28" review Samsung SyncMaster 275T 27" review
I know you are "source limited" but IMO this is not the component to compromise on a lower quality part.

2 times 8800GTX is a bad choice on the eve of the 9800GTX release.
You'll want to save enough money to pick up one of those.

Silverstone Zeus ST85ZF 850W PSU or Enermax GALAXY 850w PSU will more than meet the needs of anything you can stuff in that big Stacker (or Kandalf) case. (Unless you're going for an extreme cooling solution like TEC or Phase Change cooling which always come with condensation problems)

Cooler Master Stacker 831 $285.00

Get the Stacker 832 its better and cheaper - $239.99 and addresses complaints of the first stackers

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] cker%2b832


Dont get the Striker Extreme unless you love copper - it has no additional benefits to the P5N32-E SLI 680i board

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131073

It's also cheaper

Here is article well written that compares them:

http://legionhardware.com/document.php?id=616

Make sure your RAM is on the ASUS QVL list on their site for the board you end up choosing - its PDF download


If this is your monitor then the contrast ratio is 800:1 which is low to most LCD's

http://www.extremetech.com/article [...] 179,00.asp

1200 Watt power supply should keep you going - I chose Tagan 1100 Watt model - might consider that for being cheaper

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] gan%2b1100


Up to you - but dont get striker and I recommend the better case for cheaper

and lol on the refining your build - I went through the same thing - its very hard to settle, but the Extreme and P5n32-E should use the same RAM (Provided its on the QVL) and the Stacker won't change anything for you either

My only problem with the difference between the 2 monitors is that for the price of the Samsung I could buy 2 ViewSonic's, so in terms of performance quality is it really 2 times better than the VS ? (ergonomics and aesthetics mean little to me as far as choice of monitor goes so thats about 2/3 of the bad part of the review gone) the other problem with the VS is the color or gamma... both of which were addressed rather easily according to that review by changing the video cards settings. The only thing I really worry about is motion blur which is suppose to be rather good and sharpness of image quality.. again suppose to be alright.

This new Nvidia card is very disputed and is something I am rather iffy about, it has a November release date and performs twice as good as an 8800ULTRA.. so wheres the catch ? none of this information is backed up by Nvidia and in fact they denied the production of the G92 cards being released on November 12, 2007... it is all information from (according to what I found out) an unnamed source in "The Inquirer" which I really wouldn't call a reliable source of information. I don't have any idea of how Nvidia handles thing's but if their top video card can handle all games brought out and blows away their rivals best product why would you release something that you already corner the market on and would only lower the prices of your other cards ?
I just don't want to end up waiting till November for a good video solution and then have Nvidia release a statement saying their new cards will be available sometime in Feb/March.. as others have said about other PC parts on these boards and many others... if you wait there will always be something better right around the corner (and believe me I have paid the consequences already with the "wait till" as I am still running a 6600 standard which barely puts out enough frames to keep me going in CSS @ 1024x768 let alone the newer games out in todays markets.

This is where I have left a bit of room for future upgrades without going too much over my budget price difference between a 1000w and a 1200w isn't that great and I imagine that if I did in future decide to swap out my GTX's for the 9 series I would need this extra juice... I originally had a Antec Quattro 850w TruePower planned but finding out that this was only just over my limitations for an over clocked, SLI, water cooled rig I went the next step to 1000w and found the price diff between the 1000 and 1200 was minimal.

Actually thats US pricing isn't it ? the prices I quoted are in AU... but its not too much over the 831 over here... if the Stacker 832 is a better choice for my rig then I might consider getting it.. but I am still trying to decide on which case to get out of all the others also.

Now theres something I can live with changing, from what I have read these 2 boards are identical bar the options I don't need.... now I just need to see how available this MB is here... woohoo $319AU vs $469AU now I just need to decide where the extra money gets spent on

If I have disputed any suggestions please do not think that I am simply overlooking them, I have taken them in and will look at what I can and I thank you for your input.

ZeroCool wrote :
I originally had a Antec Quattro 850w TruePower planned but finding out
that this was only just over my limitations for an over clocked, SLI,
water cooled rig I went the next step to 1000w and found the price diff
between the 1000 and 1200 was minimal.

Ok - I have to admit you got me curious. What would it take to max out a 850w PSU. I did a couple "test builds" on the Extreme Power Calculator and came up: (* items are "upgrades" and I assumed that OC'd 2x 8800GTX would have about the same power requrirements as 2 9800GTXs)

High End Desktop total 847watts
Q6600 OC'd 3.5Ghz 95% CPU utilization 179watts
2x8800GTX OC'd 626/2000
4GB DDR2
*3 Sata HDs
*1 SSD DRAM HD + 1 Flash SSD HD
*2 DVD-RW/DVD+RW (+1)
*1 Blu-Ray HD DVD
Audio Card with front bay controller
*1 PCI-e x4 card (Physics card)
2 USB powered devices 1 Firewire powered device
Fan controller, Front bay card reader, Front bay LCD display
2 case lights cold cathode type
4 LED HiPerf 120mm Fans
Thermaltake Big Water cooling kit and 2 relay pumps
Thermaltake Aquabay M5
95% system load and 15% capacitor aging (95% is unusually high - 85% is probably the highest you'll ever need)
-> Take out the Blu-Ray HD drive total now @ 812watts

The watercooled system you're looking to build, as listed, probably needs 664watts
A top air cooled system (Q6600 OC'd 3.2Ghz) with your listed would probably need 556watts.

I'm just really curious how you calculated your power requirements.

Can you explain this a little more?

I would consider Swiftech H20-220 cooling kit. I think it is superior to the Bigwater.

I didn't base it off a PSU calculator, I based it off Nvidia's SLI minimum recommended PSU req which was 750w for 2 8800GTX's.
For the 9800 which is purely speculation as no official stats have been announced (as far as I'm aware) I estimated it would be 1000w with a decent system and as I stated a 1000w and 1200w price difference was very minimal... theres not much harm in having an over abundance of power I believe, apart from my my electric bill (the good ol saying better to be safe than sorry).

Sure... I originally a few years back now, bought a new PC, P4 3.2g... blah blah (sorry not really important).. anyway upon buying this system I was recommended to buy a 6600 at the time and "wait till" the newer model card came out so I was saving money on my GFX which would hold me over for a while.. problem was this "wait till" kept coming again and again as newer models where brought out and now I have had enough of waiting for the better option or waiting till the better option comes out so the lower gen is cheaper (there always is.. GT, GTX, ULTRA etc etc).... I only just thought you might think I meant processor... if thats the case then I meant Nvidia's 6600 GFX card... if it was questioning why a 6600 puts out crap frames @ 1024x768, I don't know ask the designer's from Nvidia


Just as an update I just found (and bought) a new Dell 30" 3007 WFP-HC LCD SCREEN HDCP for $1550AU so I kinda just upped the anti on needing SLI... but should make anyone who had gripes about the ViewSonic monitor happy

Availability = really really hard to find over here in AUS

I think it looks like you have a great build picked out - as far as the 9800 did you hear they will have something even better after that ??? lol

on and on and on - people have to buy a pC one of these days - can't keep waiting on something better its not like you can tell if a game is running 160 frames a second versus 60 frames anyhow.... The human eye cannot detect it so people who brag about those frame rates are nuts - and developers don't make the textures higher res then probably 2048x2048 most use 1024x1024 or 512x512 textures on objects as anything too large will slow down the best PC's out there.

Conclusion - who cares what the next card can do - if the 8800 is giving you high res and great frames its plenty enough

As long as you're throwing money away, why don't you RAID a couple of Raptors?

Ok a 6600 video card. I thought you meant a C2D E6600!

It's gonna make YOU a lot happier than us! Now that is a first class upgrade and it puts your money where it will do the most good IMO. Its really an outstanding display. 3 years ago you couldnt have touched that type of display quality for under $3500. The only "drawback" is the 2560x1600 native resolution. A lot of games wont support that resolution and you'll find yourself spending time over at http://www.widescreengamingforum.com looking for workarounds and ini edits.

Which is a very conservative recommendation. They expect people to "load up" a gaming system with all the other good stuff. Not many run SLI systems with budget parts. But you can find people running SLI 8800GTXs with 550w PSUs as long as they have the amps required. Amps are always more important than watts. Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke about your PSU requirements check out this review of the Dark Power Pro 1000Watt PSU On a system somewhat similar to yours (water cooled OC'd Q6600 and OC'd 8800GTX SLI, extra fans and lights). Under max load the peak power reqmts stayed under 600watts.

I know a lot of people figure - if people didnt need Kilowatt power supplies they wouldnt make them. Just for grins I decided to see what type of gaming system would actually need a Kilowatt PSU (there are some out there)
1078 watts using a AMD Quad 4x4 build
AMD FX-74(x2) 3.0 Ghz OC'd @ 3.2Ghz/ ASUS L1N64-SLI WS (dual socket 1207FX) nForce 680a SLI Motherboard
FX-74 vs Q6700 power reqmts

4GB DDR2 RAM
Crossfire x2 ATI HD 2900XT 1GB VRAM
2x 15kRPM SCSI HD
2x 7.2k SATA 3.0 HD
1 SSD DRAM HD + 1 Flash SSD HD
2 DVDRW/DVD+RW Drives
1 Blu-Ray drive
1 HD Audio PCI board
1 SCSI RAID PCI board
1 Physics PCI-x4 board
2 USB Devices + 1 Firewire device
Fan Controller + Front bay card reader + Front bay LCD Display
2 case lights Cold Cathode type
Thermaltake BigWater cooling kit + 2 relays
Thermaltake Aquabay M5
95% system load + 15% Capacitor aging

Beyond gaming systems there are heavy duty workstation builds that use dual (8 cores) or quad (16 cores) socket with Quad Core CPUs, large SCSI RAID arrays (8 15k HDs), multi-GPU workstation graphics cards and other exotic processing hardware.

Raptors in Raid are soooo last year! It's 15k RPM SCSI arrays for the power user.

I'm never against anyone spending their money the way they want. A little "bling" or a little "brag" they're OK too.
But being an informed consumer never goes out of style.