Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Need some help installing IDE HD

Last response: in Storage
Share
February 11, 2008 12:10:59 AM

I'm trying to install a 80GB WesternDigital IDE hard disk in an old AMD K2-300 machine. On the IDE cable, I have a CDROM drive, set in master, which works fine and on the second connector I have the HD set on slave.

The problem is, when I boot the computer, it detects the CDROM, but when it arrives at Secondary Slave drive... it doesn't detect the hard drive. If I plug only the cdrom it works fine...

The HD is brand new I bought it a couple of months ago and never used it, nor remove it from is plastic bag.

What could be the problem?

More about : installing ide

February 11, 2008 1:18:23 AM

What happens if you put the HDD on the IDE primary master or slave?
February 11, 2008 1:47:04 AM

I think I tried putting it in primary master and it tried to boot up from it but it gave a boot error (because there's nothing on it)...

I didn't try primary slave since there's already something plugged in... but it should work has secondary slave right?
Related resources
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 1:51:14 AM

Should work fine configured as slave.
Are you sure the jumpers are correct, try without the CD attached and the drive set to master. If that doesn't work, there is something wrong with the drive.
February 11, 2008 2:00:23 AM

Even if it's brand new? Could this mean that the drive is defect?
February 11, 2008 2:07:47 AM

what kind of data cable are you using? is it 80 wire or 40 wire... this has been so long ago on something that slow.. you may also have to go into the bios and set it up there.

Bioses today are much better where they auto-detect, back in the day you had to go in an manually set them. Do you know what the motherboard supports in the way of IDE interface? [udma 33 / 66 / 100]?

Those are likely things to check also you will need to fdisk and format the drive before the OS will see it.
February 11, 2008 2:29:55 AM

Have you tried using 2 seperate IDE ribbon cables? I've had issues with this myself (mostly with older MB's).
February 11, 2008 2:37:25 AM

earth4x said:
I'm trying to install a 80GB WesternDigital IDE hard disk in an old AMD K2-300 machine. On the IDE cable, I have a CDROM drive, set in master, which works fine and on the second connector I have the HD set on slave.


I'm a n00b so you'll have to excuse me, but ... how can you run an OS on an HD that's a Slave? I thought the HD with the OS had to be a Primary one.
February 11, 2008 2:43:53 AM

I just switched to a ribbon cable I found laying around and tried setting it in master with only the HD on it. It did boot up, but when I tried running the Western Digital Data Lifeguard tools to set up the hard drive, it gave me an error message telling me that there was only one hard drive installed in the computer and that it had windows installed on it...

What should I do?

regarding dcinmich's post : I said second connector, not second cable. I meant the slave connector on the actual cable. :) 
February 11, 2008 3:05:07 AM

Hmm, ok, I just wondered because you said you have the HD set as slave.
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 4:03:27 AM

It does not matter if your HD is set as Master, Slave or if your cables are 40 or 80 conductors. The problems lies with you is your bios is too old, therefore it cannot detect the new 80GB HD. If you manage to get your HD to detect then your lucky if you can even get 40GB out of your 80. And if you want to use your full 80GB, then you'll need a special bios called a EZ-Bios, and if you are setup up XP, you'll have to start up with a floppy drive as the EZ-Bios manager only boot to floppies.
February 11, 2008 12:22:24 PM

first we need a little history lesson cause peeps are just spouting non-sense. You can read the whole article from the link.

Quote:
http://www.spcug.org/reviews/bl0108.htm
Tech Talk (08/01)
IDE, EIDE and UDMA
by Brian K. Lewis, Ph.D.*
Member of the Sarasota Personal Computer Users Group, Inc.

last month's TechTalk was all about hard drive size.

This month I decided to cover hard drive data transfer speed. More and more ads are appearing referring to UDMA/100 or ATA/100 drives. You may have also seen some ads for UDMA/66 or ATA/66 drives. So, what does this mean, and what are the advantages or disadvantages relative to your computer system? Enhanced IDE (EIDE) is the interface standard for the inexpensive, high performance hard disks used in PCs. This is a registered name owned by Western Digital Corporation. They also own the name "IDE." Other companies like Seagate, IBM, Quantum and Maxtor use the term Advanced Technology Attachment (ATA). EIDE and ATA refer to the same interface. However there are many different data transfer protocols included in these terms.

Ultra DMA (UDMA) also refers to the hard drive interface for the transfer of data to and from the hard drive. This is an extension of the original Integrated Data Electronics (IDE) interface that first appeared in the original IBM AT computer and the Enhanced IDE interface. The term AT is simply an abbreviation for Advanced Technology. This original specification was followed by EIDE and then by the UDMA improvements. Within the specification for the UDMA interface there are now three additional protocols: UDMA/33, UDMA/66 and UDMA/100.

All Pentium system boards since 1995 have an EIDE controller built into the chip set. This allows the hard disk and other EIDE units to be connected directly to the system board. The EIDE standard is a great improvement over the old IDE. For example, the EIDE hard disk can exceed the 528MB IDE limit that was discussed last month. The most important feature is that the interface connects directly to the PCI bus. This allows for transfer speeds that far exceed those of the older hard disk controllers.

The original EIDE interface allowed for a maximum data transfer rate of 16 megabytes per second (MB/sec). The next data transfer improvement was accomplished with the introduction of the Ultra DMA or Ultra ATA interface. This is an interface patented by Quantum but supported by all motherboard and disk drive manufacturers. The technology involves an improvement in the governing electronics that deliver the hard disk data to the system board. Quantum succeeded in reducing the bottleneck that occurs in transferring data to/from the EIDE hard disks. The UDMA hard disk is no faster, but the data paths have been optimized. With the new protocol, the speed is doubled by allowing twice the data transfer per clock cycle. This is referred to as UDMA/33 (UDMA mode 2) and supposedly has a maximum data transfer rate of 33MB/sec. However, in practice, this maximum speed is rarely achieved.

In 1997-98 Intel and Quantum created another Ultra DMA standard called ATA/66 or UDMA/66 (UDMA mode 4). This protocol has a theoretical bandwidth of 66MB/sec. It also requires a cable with 80 conductors instead of the original 40. The 40 additional conductors are used for grounding. In the older cables, only seven conductors were used for grounding. This improved grounding removes the noise remaining in the cable after a transmission (crosstalk). In the UDMA/33 protocol the controller had to wait for noise in the cable to disappear before the next transmission. With the new cables the noise is dramatically reduced, so there is less delay in data transmission.


However, this is only one issue of probably several. If the original poster can post the mother board info we should be able to find out whether this is possible or not. If the bios will support the drive it might work. I think the bios is the limiting factor and the 40 wire data cable.
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 1:04:50 PM

earth4x said:
I think I tried putting it in primary master and it tried to boot up from it but it gave a boot error (because there's nothing on it)...

I didn't try primary slave since there's already something plugged in... but it should work has secondary slave right?

So it is being detected there, correct?
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 1:05:58 PM

Just try the HD on primary master and move the CD to secondary.
February 11, 2008 1:26:34 PM

earth4x said:
I'm trying to install a 80GB WesternDigital IDE hard disk in an old AMD K2-300 machine. On the IDE cable, I have a CDROM drive, set in master, which works fine and on the second connector I have the HD set on slave.

The problem is, when I boot the computer, it detects the CDROM, but when it arrives at Secondary Slave drive... it doesn't detect the hard drive. If I plug only the cdrom it works fine...

The HD is brand new I bought it a couple of months ago and never used it, nor remove it from is plastic bag.

What could be the problem?


I remember on old machines, having to detect the drives in the bios... Something like pressing F3 to detect drives on the ide channels from the main bios page.

The other problem, as earlier mentioned, could be that the bios will not see > 40gigs.

Ron
February 11, 2008 3:12:53 PM

It's an SS7 512K ASUS VIA ALI AT motherboard.. I believe the model number is NCASp5A-Bxx but i'm not sure (can't see the last numbers)
February 11, 2008 5:31:25 PM

ok, from what I can see thus far it looks like you "should" be able to get it to work. There is certainly no guarantees, it will be thru trial and error.

According to the user manual that I found, located here in PDF format> http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock7/ali/p5a/p5a-107.pdf

the board supports UDMA 33, which is a good thing because UDMA devices are all backward compatible all the way up to UDMA 133, the only catch is UDMA 33 did not require an 80 wire data cable to work, where as UDMA 66 and up does. So you must verify that you are using an 80 wire data cable.

Additionally, this time frame "cable select" had not shown up, the drive must be set to slave or master and then attached correctly to the data cable. If you plan to use this for an OS you must set it to master and master devices always go on the end of the data cable. Slave devices always go to the middle connector.

If you don't make sure these things are correct, then you'll never know for certain whether it will work or not as the drive will give you nothing but errors if anything at all. Additionally, the drive that you are putting in there is at least UDMA 100 if not 133, however it will drop down to the UDMA 33 spec or somewhere around there.

It also appears hard drives automatically detect or you can set them manually... once you have the hard drive hooked up properly, with the correct data cable, master / slave settings and plugged into the right connector on the drive then get into the bios and see that the drive is being detected. That is the key to get it to work.

I think it should work... with what I found thus far. Pg41 of the manual talks about the HDD set up in the bios. You should probably download the user manual and print this for future reference.

If you can't get the bios to detect the hard drive, no matter what you do.... then all bets are off at this point. Once the bios detects it you will need to load DOS, then fdisk the drive and then format it once you reboot back into DOS. After that windows will see it.

Good Luck. :D 

BTW, I almost forgot... when you format the drive in DOS, the capacity will print wrongly after it formats... pay no attention to this.
Let us know if you get it to work.
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 8:00:10 PM

Seriously stop wasting your time. Your board is too old for the HD to detect!
See if any of your friends has a older HD like a 20 or a 10GB. Try those and see if they work.
As for the Master and Slave. I just remembered that on the old WD HDs there used to be another Master setting
called "Neutral Master", but they didn't put that on their labels anymore on the new drives, but that Master setting can still be used today.

Look into the WD Tech Docs online for more details.

Found a pic on the setting:
Look at the HD on the right (the Western Digital 40GB), see that jumper place in a horizontal position, set it the way exactly as you see on that pic. And see if that works.

February 11, 2008 8:51:44 PM

I just tried to put it in slave and it's not detected in the BIOS... When it's set at master, during the POST.. on secondary master it says NONE and when it's on slave... nothing happens

It doesn't seem to be detected at all, does this mean I'm out of luck and the computer is too old?
a b G Storage
February 11, 2008 10:48:12 PM

There are some bios which I like to call it "dumb bioses" Like those Dell machines. If you connect the first head of your IDE cable your drive has to be set as Master. For the 2nd it has to be slave. And if no drives are connected, you have to set that to none.


February 12, 2008 12:57:35 AM

that's what I did... and it doesn't work
a c 342 G Storage
February 12, 2008 3:08:04 AM

MAYBE it's just that your old BIOS cannot auto-detect a drive of this size. But there's another way. Check with the HDD's manufacturer website and get the correct BIOS settings for things like Tracks, Heads, Sectors, etc. Enter these MANUALLY on the HDD setup screen of the BIOS and do not bother trying for auto-detect. In fact, you might have to specifically disable auto-detect in the BIOS for this disk. Be sure to specify LBA support for this disk over 32GB. Once you have done this you should be able to use FDISK on a bootable DOS disk to partition the drive, then FORMAT it. These DOS tools only will work, of course, if your HDD controller and BIOS on the mobo can use the manually-entered parameters and deal with the new HDD properly.
February 12, 2008 4:28:19 PM

I agree with paperdoc, if you can't get the bios to recognize it after this last step all hope is gone... [provided you have the proper cable and the drive jumpers set correctly and connected properly to the cable]
February 13, 2008 5:16:20 PM

I set it up in secondary slave, put the correct specs in the BIOS, but didn't specify LBA (I left it at auto). It went to the POST screen, but after the detecting secondary master text displayed none... there was a flashing _ on the screen, and nothing happens... usually detecting secondary slave pops up but this time it didn't....

Does this mean all hope is lost? because I'm not even sure the BIOS has a setting where I can deactivate the auto-detect
February 16, 2008 1:41:27 AM

*bump*
!