HDTV Tuners - Closed Captioning

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <uonc519pglcqs14goud19lthe0dchh469r@4ax.com>, no@2.spam
says...
> I tried the Walmart US Digital tuner, and it's captioning
> works like the Samsung. The one I have also 'crashes'
> after 2-3 days, and needs a hard reboot. So, I can't
> leave it unattended, hooked up to a recorder.
>

I suggest you contact USDTV (www.usdtv.com has an email box). Include
your software version and ask if an upgrade is available.


--
- Paula

There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <rccg51hf3k34rcnpdd5htp9h4l9v9uj4v5@4ax.com>, no@2.spam
says...
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:36:16 GMT, Paula <mistress@s&m.org> wrote:
>
> >I suggest you contact USDTV (www.usdtv.com has an email box). Include
> >your software version and ask if an upgrade is available.
>
> When I sent them email previously about this, their mail system
> forwarded the help-address mail to some person at the company
> -- who didn't exist in their mail system.


I hope they won't mind my sharing these. The rep most helpful to me was
"Tassia A. Nichols" <tassia@usdtv.com>.

Steve is VP of something. Also very helpful
Steve Morse <smorse@usdtv.com>


--
- Paula

There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I use the LG LST 3510a which is a HD tuner (a good one) and a DVD player
with upscaler to HD. I love it.

BC


"Lee Lindquist" <no@2.spam> wrote in message
news:uonc519pglcqs14goud19lthe0dchh469r@4ax.com...
>
> I'm looking for a tuner for OTA reception.
>
> I'm particularly interested in closed-captioning, as one
> of my family members needs it.
>
> I tried the Samsung SIR T-451. It is able to overlay
> captions, directly on the video. They're displayed,
> but there is no way to control them from the TV.
>
> I tried the Walmart US Digital tuner, and it's captioning
> works like the Samsung. The one I have also 'crashes'
> after 2-3 days, and needs a hard reboot. So, I can't
> leave it unattended, hooked up to a recorder.
>
> I also tried the Motorola HDT-101. It has a captioning
> mode like the Samsung; but it also has a second mode
> where it decodes the captions, and re-encodes them
> so that they are 'hidden' in the video stream. (Like
> traditional NTSC). This is what I prefer, as I can
> then record something from the Mot, and decide at
> playback (with the TV) whether or not to display the
> captioning.
>
> With the Samsung, once you enable captioning,
> and record the output -- it's there overlayed on the video
> -- there's no way to turn it off.
>
> I like the Motorola, but I find the fan noisy.
>
> Are there any other tuners that I should consider
> -- particularly ones that are able to do 'hidden'
> captioning?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> - Lee
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I've bought the LST-3510A, but I can not get it to show closed
captioning when playing a DVD. If the DVD has 'subtitles' option I can
view the dialogue that way. But some DVD do not have the option or do
not have English as one of the language within the option.

I connect the set-top-box to a Syntax Olevia 30" lcd monitor with
composite (?) connections (5 wire hook-up). I can only view the TV's
closed captioning text if I'm using the components (?) connections (3
wire hook-up). Also, I can not view closed captioning during CBS
prime-time. Would anyone have any suggestion on what's my problem?


--
AGReklaw
This post originated from http://www.hdtv-info.org/forum/

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim" <jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote (in part):

>I'm not technically educated in this area, but because of difficulities I've
>encountered with CC and HDTV, there must be more to it than CC on SD. I get
>TNT with closed captions. I get the same program massaged for HD on TNTHD
>without closed captions. TNT insists it is sending CC. DISH insists it
>passes through what it receives.

Not sure if this applies, but there's a right and a wrong way to
handle CC when converting analog to digital and back. The wrong way
is to treat the caption line as video and digitize it along with
everything else. A/D and D/A conversions often shift the video a few
lines. If the captions end up on the wrong line the decoder can't
find them. Even if they're on the right line they're usually so
mangled that the text is only a vague semblance of the original.

The right way is for the digitizer to strip the captions and
intelligently convert them to a separate bitstream. Of course the
receiver must know to look for that bitstream and either display the
captions as text or reencode them on the analog output for other
equipment to process.

Del Mibbler

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thanks Gilg and Del. Apparently this is something still in the
experimenting stage. ESPNHD has it right. I haven't found CC on any other
of the limited HD stations I subscribe to.

Bet if one of the CEO's of the broadcasters were hard of hearing, there
would be Closed Captioning.

Again, I appreciate it, just sitting here waiting for DISH to tiptoe around
in their response to the FCC. Maybe this can get them moving. Although I
doubt it.

Some months ago when first started complaining to DISH I was told
engineering would look into it. As far as the CSR knew closed captioning
was being sent. Multiple calls later and multiple emails, I was told that
yes, Dish was sending what it received and that they didn't know who was
feeding closed captioning. I asked them to have their engineers set up
closed captioning on their monitors and see for themselves. CSR said she
would pass it to engineering and when they got time they would check it out.
That was 5 months ago or so.

Jim (Wishes he had more clout)


"news.cup.hp.com" <thomasDELME_gilgDELME@hpDELME.com> wrote in message
news:X1lqe.6886$Wk2.305@news.cpqcorp.net...
> Jim and others,
>
> I am not an expert on Closed Captioning, but here are some data-points.
>
> The Closed Captioning standard for NTSC-based ecosystems is described by
> CEA-608, which was just revised from version "B" to version "C" (hence
> CEA-608-C). Apsects of CEA-608 are cited by FCC regulations (47 CFR
> 15.119; 47 CFR 15.120). From content providers to broadcasters to TV set
> manufacturers, the CEA-608 pathway from end to end is well understood and
> well supported. A copy of the standard is available at:
>
> http://www.ce.org/standards/Standa [...] px?Id=1506
>
> Beyond classic NTSC ecosystems, the standards and practical
> implementations of (in my non-expert opinion) are still maturing. I do not
> have a copy of the standard, so I cannot describe the scope of it, but
> CEA-708-B describes a fair amount of what is required to do CC in Digital
> Television:
>
> http://www.ce.org/standards/Standa [...] px?Id=1782
>
> While the tools and methods for converting NTSC *audio/video* (not CC) to
> ATSC/MPEG/Component-Connector/Digital-Connector *audio/video* is well
> exercised, the tools and methods for lifting the CEA-608 captions out of
> NTSC content and re-inserting them CEA-708 style into digital content are
> still new, and I dare say the tools for inserting CC into content that was
> born in the digital domain are newish too. To make matters worse, the
> digital world has so many more file formats and connector types, and
> making sure CC survives all the conversions, jumps and rebroadcasts is
> simply more difficult and inmature.
>
> Though NTSC had decades of time to work the kinks out, its also fair to
> say NTSC was a simple ecosystem to understand and work the kinks out. The
> transition to digital is very enabling, but its made the maintenance of
> CC, digital rights management, and other things, and order of magnitude
> more complex :-(
>
> Thomas Gilg
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I am also having a problem seeing cc on DVD players. An el cheapo Daewoo
would not show them even though the option was in the setup.
I am looking into DVD players with upconversion and wonder if they will
mangle cc. Anyone know something about this?

Paul

"Jim" <jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2Qpqe.2275$NX4.1429@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks Gilg and Del. Apparently this is something still in the
> experimenting stage. ESPNHD has it right. I haven't found CC on any
> other of the limited HD stations I subscribe to.
>
> Bet if one of the CEO's of the broadcasters were hard of hearing, there
> would be Closed Captioning.
>
> Again, I appreciate it, just sitting here waiting for DISH to tiptoe
> around in their response to the FCC. Maybe this can get them moving.
> Although I doubt it.
>
> Some months ago when first started complaining to DISH I was told
> engineering would look into it. As far as the CSR knew closed captioning
> was being sent. Multiple calls later and multiple emails, I was told that
> yes, Dish was sending what it received and that they didn't know who was
> feeding closed captioning. I asked them to have their engineers set up
> closed captioning on their monitors and see for themselves. CSR said she
> would pass it to engineering and when they got time they would check it
> out. That was 5 months ago or so.
>
> Jim (Wishes he had more clout)
>
>
> "news.cup.hp.com" <thomasDELME_gilgDELME@hpDELME.com> wrote in message
> news:X1lqe.6886$Wk2.305@news.cpqcorp.net...
>> Jim and others,
>>
>> I am not an expert on Closed Captioning, but here are some data-points.
>>
>> The Closed Captioning standard for NTSC-based ecosystems is described by
>> CEA-608, which was just revised from version "B" to version "C" (hence
>> CEA-608-C). Apsects of CEA-608 are cited by FCC regulations (47 CFR
>> 15.119; 47 CFR 15.120). From content providers to broadcasters to TV set
>> manufacturers, the CEA-608 pathway from end to end is well understood and
>> well supported. A copy of the standard is available at:
>>
>> http://www.ce.org/standards/Standa [...] px?Id=1506
>>
>> Beyond classic NTSC ecosystems, the standards and practical
>> implementations of (in my non-expert opinion) are still maturing. I do
>> not have a copy of the standard, so I cannot describe the scope of it,
>> but CEA-708-B describes a fair amount of what is required to do CC in
>> Digital Television:
>>
>> http://www.ce.org/standards/Standa [...] px?Id=1782
>>
>> While the tools and methods for converting NTSC *audio/video* (not CC) to
>> ATSC/MPEG/Component-Connector/Digital-Connector *audio/video* is well
>> exercised, the tools and methods for lifting the CEA-608 captions out of
>> NTSC content and re-inserting them CEA-708 style into digital content are
>> still new, and I dare say the tools for inserting CC into content that
>> was born in the digital domain are newish too. To make matters worse, the
>> digital world has so many more file formats and connector types, and
>> making sure CC survives all the conversions, jumps and rebroadcasts is
>> simply more difficult and inmature.
>>
>> Though NTSC had decades of time to work the kinks out, its also fair to
>> say NTSC was a simple ecosystem to understand and work the kinks out. The
>> transition to digital is very enabling, but its made the maintenance of
>> CC, digital rights management, and other things, and order of magnitude
>> more complex :-(
>>
>> Thomas Gilg
>>
>>
>
>