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Intel Core2Duo E6750 w/ SLI?

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December 8, 2007 8:28:04 PM

I have a decent liquid cooled system ATM.

Swiftech Apogee GTX waterblock
HW Labs Black Ice GTX120 radiator
Swiftech MCP655 pump

and 1/2" tygon all around.

I'm currently having an issue with my current setup and looking at MB/CPU/Ram upgrades.

This is what I'm looking at ATM:
E6750 (I want to hit 3.6ghz, which should be easy with my liquid cooling)
Super Talent DDR3 1600 (cas 7-6-6-18) 2x1gig

I currently have 2x Geforce 8600GTs (SLI) w/ a Sound Blaster X-Fi going into the new machine.

What motherboards would you recommend for an OC'd SLI setup? My current board (N32SLI-Deluxe) has given me no end of trouble, so I've been feeling the love on a Gigabyte, but the nvidia chipsets seem to be lacking features the g35 brings.

Anyone with some info/experience, please share! =)

-PimpSmurf
December 8, 2007 8:32:33 PM

You have to get an nVidia Chipset to get SLI.

I'd get an eVGA A1 or T1 revision on a 680i Ultra.

The Radiator is going to be the issue for you once you get really high vCore. Pump is great, waterblock isn't bad.

nVidia doesn't offer a DDR3 chipset yet.
December 8, 2007 8:49:49 PM

Thanks for the quick reply! :) 

I'm having trouble finding an eVGA board witha "680i ultra" chipset. I see an SLI board with a 680i LT. Is that what I'm looking for? A search on newegg for "680i evga sli" brings me only 1 option.

EVGA 122-CK-NF67-T1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i LT SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Is this what I'm looking for? Should I ditch the SLI and use 1 of my 8600s on a different board (GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R) so I can use DDR3-1600 and simply replace the motherboard when nVidia gets off it's ass and makes a DDR3 chipset?

-PimpSmurf
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December 8, 2007 8:59:58 PM

Here's whats up man..

The tangible (real world) benefits of DDR3 are not worth the money compared to DDR2. The differences in real world (3DMax06, gaming FPS, etc) between DDR2667 and DDR21066 are negligible. Moving to DDR3 right now would be a waste of money (in my opinion).

Also.. a single 8800 GTX will outperform SLI'd 8600 GTs.

For you I would recommend an Asus P5K Series or if you wanted to move to the X38 series if you aren't worried about keeping SLI.

If you want to keep SLI that eVGA T1 will be a good bet.

Again, these are all my opinions, but I don't think the tangible benefits of FPS in games is worth the move to DDR3 (Unless you want to run some Sythetic benchmarks for bragging rights).

As an example..

Overclocking my Q6600 from 2.4 GHz -> 3.6 GHz with 1066 FSB -> 1600 FSB got me a 6.1% increase in overall 3DMax06 score. Got me a ton on synthetics though.
December 9, 2007 2:00:05 PM

I can either return one of the 8600s for $200 or not.

I have $400 that I can spend outside of that.

2x 8600s < 1x8800 (given)
2x8600s > 1x8600 (right?)

So should I just go eVGA T1 / E6750?

Should I return one of the 8600s and use that money to get more/better ram? I'm new to SLI, and when my computer booted the bios showed 2 gigs of ram, but windows only showed 1.12 gigs of ram.

If this is going to be an issue with windows xp, then it would seem to me that going to 1x 8600 on a system with top quality ram (2x1024 duel channel) and a 6750 on a good board would make me happiest.

What kind of ram should I be looking for? ddr2-800? I don't want to make another bad decision, as I've been living with my last one for long enough. haha

Thanks a ton,
-PimpSmurf
December 9, 2007 2:10:58 PM

Ok, I'll tell you what I would do, and why.

You have $400 and if you return a video card you have $600 to play with.

Motherboard: Asus P5K-E

This is the motherboard I have, it has a wealth of overclocking options and it's fun to play with. It's very stable and very capable of 500+ MHz Bus on Dual Cores (if you are comfortable with VTT, PLL, and GTL Ref) or 425-450 if you are not. $140

RAM: Transcend DDR2-800 AxeRam

Again this is the RAM I use, it's not too expensive and it runs great timings at 1.8v. I've had it OC'd to DDR2-1200 at 2.3v. Again yours might not do this, but it's inexpensive memory that will likely do 1066 which will get you 500 MHz Bus in 1:1. $60

CPU: Intel E6750

Like you said, it's a good solid processor that will overclock well in that board. $190

To hit 3.6 GHz you are going to need 450 MHz Bus. That's a hefty task for any board, but the P5K-E will do it, albeit it might require some tweaking.

That comes in to about $400 with shipping. If you decide to return the video card.. HD3870 is a great choice. The MSRP is about $200 but the Christmas Demand is causing the prices to go up. One of those or an 8800 GT or the newer 8800 GTS refresh would be a great upgrade after you get everything up and running.
December 9, 2007 9:10:21 PM

cnumartyr said:
This is the motherboard I have, it has a wealth of overclocking options and it's fun to play with. It's very stable and very capable of 500+ MHz Bus on Dual Cores (if you are comfortable with VTT, PLL, and GTL Ref) or 425-450 if you are not. $140


1) No idea what VTT, PLL, and GTL Ref are. Gonna do some searching. :bounce: 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thinking I'm going to get that for cooling and get rid of the watercooling, because I'm just kinda bored with it. Also thinking I'll ditch the Armor Series case while I'm at it and get something much smaller (read: lighter)

That being, I got $250 back for the video card today (idiot didn't even check inside the box saying "It looks like it hasn't been opened" so I could have put a turd in there if I weren't the scrupulous fellow I am.)

That leaves me with around $550 to play with, and the grand total for the 4 items you list + the heatpipe is a wopping $484 shipped overnight. Should I think about some better RAM? tomshardware had some ram called "black dragon" with great latency which was around $100, but I can't find that name anywhere. Being that I'll need to hit 1066 to go 1:1, but do you think I might have to tweak the CAS to go to 1066? I was thinking about replacing the memory you suggested with some performance memory with a heatspreader/heatpipe. I could simply put some sort of aftermarket heatpipe on the value ram you listed, which could help me keep the heat (and voltage) down at 1066 while maintaining the stock CAS.

Either that, or Tom's reviewed this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

They got the CAS down to 4-4-4-12 at 1066 w/ 2.45v It's a $70 price difference though, which hurts a little.

I guess it depends on what kinda CAS you were able to squeeze out of the ddr800@1066. If heats an issue, $40 in ram coolers (thermaltake heatpipes maybe?) would solve it.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. You should have seen the flamewar I started over SLI vs my System memory. When I put in the 2nd 8600, it made windows show 1.12 gigs of ram (which put me into my swap heavily) and when I take it out, it's back to 2gigs. With only 512megs of ram each, and 2 gigs of system ram, I didn't see why it would do that. heh. Either way, down to one 8600gt now. (and the wife thinks the computers broken, so no complaining about the money I'm about to spend. :)  )

-PimpSmurf
December 9, 2007 10:25:50 PM

If you want DDR2-1066 I would suggest Crucial Ballistix.

Most memory is not going to do 1066 with CAS 4 without some insane voltage. Mine did DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15 @ 2.3v. I haven't seen a set of those Ballistix yet that won't do 1200 MHz without some tweaking.

I'm not a fan of Geil (Black Dragon is their performance RAM) or G.Skill. The best memory right now is using Micron D9GMH chips. Crucial is the retail branch of Micron. All of thier memory uses Micron ICs. That Ballistix is gaurenteed D9GMH. Trancend also uses Micron D9, which is why I use them as well.

I would suggest a beefier cooler than that if you want to OC the quad core. How much of an issue is noise? A Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme outperforms about everything else. Noise level is entirely dependent on the fan you strap to it. Then again for a Dual core a Tuniq Tower would be sufficient as well.

As far as cases go my choices would be Antec 900 or the Cooler Master 690.

Do some searching on the 900, I've seen it on sale for $60. Both have excellent airflow.
December 10, 2007 12:27:02 PM

Ordered:
ASUS P5K-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA1065
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F 120mm Case Fan

I already have a couple 95CFM 120s, and a extreme (130cfm?) badass 120x60 fan, but I'm hoping the quiet one will work for now. I'm tired of my computer sounding like a rocketship. I seriously had to get noise cancelling headphones just so I could hear my headphones over the roar.

To be honest, I'm a little scared of the Asus MB. I have a p5n32-sli deluxe and they dropped support for this board weeks after I got it. No more driver/bios updates, and no solving the issues it still has. I'm hoping this MB isn't going to suck (looks like it won't) or I'll be buying gigabytes from now on. Or maybe an MSI.

I'm a little scared, but I'm sure this system is going to rock... Now I just have to explain to Microsoft why I've reinstalled windows 4 times in the last week, and finally installed on a computer that does not remotely resemble the system I originally built. Hope they activate me. =/

Thanks again!
-PimpSmurf
December 10, 2007 2:26:50 PM

Glad you got it all worked out!

Let us know how it turns out. So you know the current best BIOS (that I've seen) for OCing is the 0602.
December 10, 2007 8:05:42 PM

I checked and the fan I have is like 220cfm, but I'm trying not to use it as the computer sounds like a jet engine spinning up. That fan is around 65db IIRC. =/

-PimpSmurf
December 10, 2007 8:12:01 PM

pimpsmurf said:
I checked and the fan I have is like 220cfm, but I'm trying not to use it as the computer sounds like a jet engine spinning up. That fan is around 65db IIRC. =/

-PimpSmurf


Lol jeez man... I used a 60 CFM one on that sink and easily got 3.2 GHz. Using a 105 CFM one now and it's sitting at 3.6 GHz with room to spare to 3.8 (been at 3.8, just not 24/7).
December 10, 2007 11:38:24 PM

Did you have any issues mounting the cpu cooler on this board? I read that some (perhaps pre-production) models might require you to bend the arm that holds the cpu down to get it to mount. Something about the extra heatpipes on the extreme edition getting in the way...

I'm very pumped now. I did some reading on lapping, and I'm going to get some sandpaper tomorrow as I had everything overnighted. No case for now, but I'm going to save up for another WD Raptor X to raid with mine and get a case to boot. I really (really really) want to aim for something as small as possible, preferably with a short profile and a handle.

In the mean time I'm going to hose out the computer (air, not garden ;)  ) and power supply. After this post I'm going to tear it down tonight and drain the coolant, etc to get it ready for tomorrow. Hopefully I will have it together in 4 hours after UPS brings my beautiful new gear. I'm thinking that I'm going to see what the quiet fan I bought can do first, and then put on the loud ass fan for fun. It looks like it clips on, so I could do it pretty easily, but now I'm worried that cooler might require me to remove the big 250mm fan on the side panel. It's about 1" thick. heh

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/08/dual_vs_quad/pag...

If I did get the cpu to 3.6ghz, it looks like thats only 8x450, so the ram would only be running at ddr2/900. Provided tom didn't lap the cpu/cooler, use AS-5/Ceramique, or have a 220cfm fan pumping on it. Maybe I will be able to pull off lower volts/temps. I'm just hoping I end up with a g0 stepping model. Is your chip a g0? I've read the older chips required much more voltage to get much lower OCs.

I've also been reading about NB/SB/FSB overclocking, and the voltages you mentioned earlier. Pretty complicated, so until further reading I'm going to leave that alone and focus on getting a good, stable CPU OC, and then working on memory latency. I guess the 1066mhz memory is meant for quadcore processors?

:bounce:  :bounce:  I'm excited! :bounce:  :bounce: 
December 11, 2007 12:49:17 AM

Well 400x9 will also get you 3.6 GHz and will be easier. 450 might take some FSB Termination increases and perhaps CPU PLL increases.

It's going to be finding the sweet spot for your RAM and getting perfect performance. Will take some fiddling. :kaola: 

Good luck man!
December 11, 2007 12:54:37 PM

Oh! I thought the multiplier was capped at 8. Shows what I know. lol

I've been reading so much the last 2 days, and not all was about the 6750, (lots of info on the Q6600 out there.)

I'm thinking this will work well, and I can upgrade to a quadcore 45nm chip when it comes out, which is bonus. =)

-PimpSmurf
December 11, 2007 2:34:15 PM

pimpsmurf said:
Oh! I thought the multiplier was capped at 8. Shows what I know. lol

I've been reading so much the last 2 days, and not all was about the 6750, (lots of info on the Q6600 out there.)

I'm thinking this will work well, and I can upgrade to a quadcore 45nm chip when it comes out, which is bonus. =)

-PimpSmurf


Lol yea the E6750 is 8x, what am I thinking. All this talk about OCing and my Q6600 goes to my head. :kaola: 
December 12, 2007 3:35:58 AM

Any updates here Pimpsmurf?
December 12, 2007 3:42:30 AM

I just got the system booted and online. Big time sensuality....

For some reason, with everything on auto, my Multiplier is 6x. lol

I'm going to flash 0602 and see what happens before I start my OC.

You find more, Chin-Quie

-PimpSmurf
December 12, 2007 3:48:37 AM

pimpsmurf said:
I just got the system booted and online. Big time sensuality....

For some reason, with everything on auto, my Multiplier is 6x. lol

I'm going to flash 0602 and see what happens before I start my OC.

You find more, Chin-Quie

-PimpSmurf


That's Intel Speed Step :kaola: 

With your multiplier set to auto it will underclock the CPU to save power. You can find it under CPU Configuration. I turn C1E and EIST (SpeedStep) off when overclocking. So you know if you change the multiplier from AUTO it will get rid of SpeedStep as a BIOS Option and automatically turn it off.
December 12, 2007 6:08:19 AM

Yeah, this occured to me when I cranked up prime95. haha.

I'm at 3.3ghz (413x8) at 1.3625 atm (crashed at 1.3375.)

50c (via Core Temp) under load.

I'm going to leave it running overnight at this voltage to see if it's stable, and then go up to 3.4 and prime95 while at work tomorrow.

I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong. I have the memory in 1:1 (ddr2-828) and it still showing as asymmetric in cpuz, even though it's showing 1:1. Not really sure whats up with that.

It appears we were confused about the memory speeds earlier, so I'm not sure what to do with this 1066 crucial memory. Most of what I've read suggests it's better to keep your chipset cooler by staying 1:1/symmetric to allow bigger OCs on the chip. I expect I could take the memory to pretty insane frequencies (with relaxed latencies) but I'm thinking that if I can get to 3.6ghz and go to (or below?) 4-4-4-12 at ddr2/900, then I would get better performance.

From first impressions, This is roughly 2x as fast as my 2.6ghz P-D-805. I can't wait to get a benchmark of some sort installed tomorrow. I guess I'll be using F.E.A.R.

*EDIT*
Seems to be stable at 3.5ghz (1.425v) 4-4-4-12 (1.25v). I'm going to run prime95 tonight and see what happens. I don't think I'm going any closer to 1.5v. I guess I can work on the other voltages and bring down my chipsets temps a little. I saw someone with my memory and chip (different board) who got the ram down to 3-3-3-9 =D

I'm wondering what a better fan would do to this cooler. This fan doesn't seem to be blowing much at all and I can't feel any airflow actually going through the fins. The backside seems to have the blowback that is seen with high CFM fans on tight liquid radiators (seems to be blowing air backwards), but I am hitting 58C tops now so it must be doing something.

Do you have a link to some more advanced OC info? I've read the guide that is here (and on anandtech) and I don't want to push 3.6ghz (and get so close to 1.5v). I'd love to read more about the other various voltages and how to tweak more than I am.

I am on 0602 bios now btw. Why is this the best for overclocking?

I <3 my new computer. =)

*RE-EDIT* I put my 220cfm Delta fan on the cooler today and the load temps dropped to 51c. I'll bet I could see 3.6ghz, and as a matter of fact, I'm going to benchmark fear and give it a shot at 3.6 right now.

Happy Days
-PimpSmurf
December 20, 2007 12:57:26 AM

hopefully ima going to be putting a computer very simmilar to your together soon.. i already have a evga 680i mobo and a 8800gtx.. i want to get a e6750. but im not sure what to go for memory yet.
!