ppv widescreen letterbox

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV movie
that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top and
bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this, and
should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?

Thanks,

Eddie G
16 answers Last reply
More about widescreen letterbox
  1. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Sounds like the format of the movie is a "wider" widescreen than your TV.

    Think about it, if there are bars on the top of the bottom it can't fill
    your screen without losing some of the picture information.

    Steve


    "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    > This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    > movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top
    > and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this,
    > and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Eddie G
    >
  2. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Eddie G wrote:
    >
    > This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV movie
    > that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top and
    > bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this, and
    > should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Eddie G

    Looks like you were looking for anamorphic wide screen, like you find on
    DVDs. It would be cool if they offered them on ppv but AFAIK they don't.
    I believe what they gave you was just letterboxed version which will
    show black bars as you noted.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Most movies (ever since the late 1950's) are filmed using anamorphic
    lenses and an aspect ratio of 2.33:1 (the picture is 2.33 times wider
    than it is tall). The old black & white movies (and the cartoons, ads and
    newsreels played between features) were filmed using a "flat" lens and an
    aspect ratio of 1.5:1

    By comparison, your 16 x 9 widescreen TV displays (full screen) with an
    aspect ratio of 1.78:1

    Therefore, in order to **PROPERLY** display the (Cinemascope/Panavision)
    movie exactly as it was filmed, it is necessary to frame it with black
    bars top and bottom (called letterboxing). In this way you are able to
    view the entire scene, edge-to-edge, with no loss of content.

    In order for it to "fill the screen" top to bottom you would then lose the
    edges or you would need to distort the image by stretching it, causing the
    characters to then appear tall and skinny.

    For the sake of comparison, the old black & white movies, again
    **PROPERLY** displayed on your 16 x 9 widescreen TV would have black bars
    on the left and right edges.

    So if it's a movie that was originally made for "the silver screen" and it
    is "filling" your entire TV screen top to bottom and left to right, the
    broadcaster (i.e., HBO, etc) is tampering with the image. This is also
    true of DVD movies. If it completely fills your screen, it has been
    "munged" in some way.

    Personally I would much rather see movies displayed correctly, in the same
    aspect ratio they were filmed in, black bars be damned. Likely as you
    learn more about this, you will too.


    In article <WZednX5zg8otYcXfRVn-ug@comcast.com> "Steven de Mena"
    <demenas@comcast.net> writes:

    >Sounds like the format of the movie is a "wider" widescreen than your TV.
    >
    >Think about it, if there are bars on the top of the bottom it can't fill
    >your screen without losing some of the picture information.
    >
    >Steve
    >
    >
    >"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    >news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    >> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top
    >> and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this,
    >> and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> Eddie G
    >>
    >
  4. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Mr Fixit (MrFixit@msn.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
    > Most movies (ever since the late 1950's) are filmed using anamorphic
    > lenses and an aspect ratio of 2.33:1

    This statement has so many errors it's hard to know where to begin to
    correct them.

    - "Scope" pictures are 2.39:1 in camera, not 2.33:1, but are often cropped
    to 2.35:1
    - The mix of movies since 1955 is about 45/45/10 1.85:1/2.35:1/1.33:1, with
    a few oddballs (1.66:1, 2.55:1, and some varying aspect ratios) thrown in
    - Many recent movies don't use anamorphic lenses at all to generate 2.35:1...
    they use the "Super 35" process

    --
    Jeff Rife | "As we sit here and idly chat, women--female
    | human beings--are rolling around in strange
    | beds with strange men, and *we* are making money
    | from that."
    | "Is this a great country, or what?"
    | -- "Night Shift"
  5. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    X-No-archive: yes

    "George" <steber@execpc.com> wrote in message
    news:425927ED.BC302434@execpc.com...
    >
    >
    > Eddie G wrote:
    >>
    >> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >> movie
    >> that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top and
    >> bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this,
    >> and
    >> should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> Eddie G
    >
    > Looks like you were looking for anamorphic wide screen, like you find on
    > DVDs. It would be cool if they offered them on ppv but AFAIK they don't.
    > I believe what they gave you was just letterboxed version which will
    > show black bars as you noted.

    ======================================
    Anamorphic DVDs have nothing to do with the aspect ratio!
    A 2.35:1 ANAMOPRHIC DVD will still have black bars top and bottom.
    ====================================
  6. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Jeff Rife wrote:
    > Mr Fixit (MrFixit@msn.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
    >
    >>Most movies (ever since the late 1950's) are filmed using anamorphic
    >>lenses and an aspect ratio of 2.33:1
    >
    >
    > This statement has so many errors it's hard to know where to begin to
    > correct them.

    I have given up trying to fix Mr. Fixit's posts. Most of them seem to be
    similarly filled with errors.

    > - "Scope" pictures are 2.39:1 in camera, not 2.33:1, but are often cropped
    > to 2.35:1
    > - The mix of movies since 1955 is about 45/45/10 1.85:1/2.35:1/1.33:1, with
    > a few oddballs (1.66:1, 2.55:1, and some varying aspect ratios) thrown in
    > - Many recent movies don't use anamorphic lenses at all to generate 2.35:1...
    > they use the "Super 35" process
    >


    --
    Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
    You can't win
    You can't break even
    You can't get out of the game
  7. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Jeff Rife wrote:
    > Mr Fixit (MrFixit@msn.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
    >
    >>Most movies (ever since the late 1950's) are filmed using anamorphic
    >>lenses and an aspect ratio of 2.33:1
    >
    >
    > This statement has so many errors it's hard to know where to begin to
    > correct them.
    >
    > - "Scope" pictures are 2.39:1 in camera, not 2.33:1, but are often cropped
    > to 2.35:1
    > - The mix of movies since 1955 is about 45/45/10 1.85:1/2.35:1/1.33:1, with
    > a few oddballs (1.66:1, 2.55:1, and some varying aspect ratios) thrown in
    > - Many recent movies don't use anamorphic lenses at all to generate 2.35:1...
    > they use the "Super 35" process
    >

    Yes, and yet another format which wasn't mentioned is 3-perf 35mm,
    where, instead of optically squishing a 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 movie out to
    fill a full 1.33:1 (standard 35mm) frame size, the camera records one
    widescreen frame for every three filmreel performations (standard is 4,
    AFAIR) This doesn't typically result in much of a perceptible quality
    loss (especially for stuff that's shot on 35mm but for which the target
    format is HDTV or SDTV...most major network shows, eg. ER and the like)
    and has the very huge advantage of saving a TON of film in the process.
    This reduces costs. Film is expensive, especially for budget-oriented
    non-blockbuster shows. 3-perf 35mm cameras are a great alternative for
    film students who often use Super16 due to cost concerns, as well.

    Alex
  8. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:48:40 -0400, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

    >Mr Fixit (MrFixit@msn.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
    >> Most movies (ever since the late 1950's) are filmed using anamorphic
    >> lenses and an aspect ratio of 2.33:1
    >
    >This statement has so many errors it's hard to know where to begin to
    >correct them.
    >
    >- "Scope" pictures are 2.39:1 in camera, not 2.33:1, but are often cropped
    > to 2.35:1
    >- The mix of movies since 1955 is about 45/45/10 1.85:1/2.35:1/1.33:1, with
    > a few oddballs (1.66:1, 2.55:1, and some varying aspect ratios) thrown in
    >- Many recent movies don't use anamorphic lenses at all to generate 2.35:1...
    > they use the "Super 35" process

    After the studios decide what format to use, the final ratio is also
    somewhat determined by the installer of the projection equipment.
    Even with the proper lens the tech must file by hand the aperture
    plate not only to size the picture but also to correct keystone. What
    you wind up with can be different from screen to screen in the same
    theater. So in practice some of the image is lost on a thin piece of
    brass.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    But isn't the 16:9 wide screen ratio the same as a movie screen at the
    theatre? I thought so, but guess not.

    "Steven de Mena" <demenas@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:WZednX5zg8otYcXfRVn-ug@comcast.com...
    > Sounds like the format of the movie is a "wider" widescreen than your TV.
    >
    > Think about it, if there are bars on the top of the bottom it can't fill
    > your screen without losing some of the picture information.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    > "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    > news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    >> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top
    >> and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is
    >> this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> Eddie G
    >>
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    X-No-archive: yes


    "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:HKWdna13e_JfTcTfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
    > But isn't the 16:9 wide screen ratio the same as a movie screen at the
    > theatre? I thought so, but guess not.

    =========================================
    Screens at theaters come in MANY sizes and shapes.
    Most of the good ones just mask the screen for the particular ratio being
    shown.
    ==========================================
    >
    > "Steven de Mena" <demenas@comcast.net> wrote in message
    > news:WZednX5zg8otYcXfRVn-ug@comcast.com...
    >> Sounds like the format of the movie is a "wider" widescreen than your TV.
    >>
    >> Think about it, if there are bars on the top of the bottom it can't fill
    >> your screen without losing some of the picture information.
    >>
    >> Steve
    >>
    >>
    >> "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    >>> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >>> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the
    >>> top and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is
    >>> this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>>
    >>> Eddie G
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    No. Almost. (that's the short answer. If you want to read a bunch of
    gobbledegook read the other replies)

    Steve


    "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:HKWdna13e_JfTcTfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
    > But isn't the 16:9 wide screen ratio the same as a movie screen at the
    > theatre? I thought so, but guess not.
    >
    > "Steven de Mena" <demenas@comcast.net> wrote in message
    > news:WZednX5zg8otYcXfRVn-ug@comcast.com...
    >> Sounds like the format of the movie is a "wider" widescreen than your TV.
    >>
    >> Think about it, if there are bars on the top of the bottom it can't fill
    >> your screen without losing some of the picture information.
    >>
    >> Steve
    >>
    >>
    >> "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    >>> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >>> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the
    >>> top and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is
    >>> this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>>
    >>> Eddie G
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  12. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    This is often discussed on this newsgroup. Movies are not usually shot in
    the exact 16:9 shape of your TV set. Some DVD's are set up that way; most
    are not. They put black bars at the top and bottom so that you see the
    movie the way it was shot and shown in theaters. Looks a hell of a lot
    better and is a lot larger than it would be on your old 4:3 set, do you not
    agree? Forget those little black bars. They are for your benefit.

    mack
    austin


    "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:VpOdnU9co8xwF8XfRVn-vA@comcast.com...
    > This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    > movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the top
    > and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why is this,
    > and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Eddie G
    >
  13. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Eddie G wrote:
    > This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    > movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the
    > top and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why
    > is this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?

    Sounds like you rented a standard def version of a movie but its in
    Widescreen. Usually with PPV unless its stated being in HD then it
    won't take advantage of your TV.

    Brian The Demolition Man Little
  14. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    X-No-archive: yes

    "Brian The Demolition Man Little" <a@b.c> wrote in message
    news:IaWdnagop8MYEv3fRVn-gA@giganews.com...
    > Eddie G wrote:
    >> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the
    >> top and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why
    >> is this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >
    > Sounds like you rented a standard def version of a movie but its in
    > Widescreen. Usually with PPV unless its stated being in HD then it
    > won't take advantage of your TV.
    >
    ============================
    But a HD version of a 2.35:1 movie will STILL have bars top and bottom on a
    WS set.
    ==============================
  15. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    BZZZZZZZZZZZTTT!!
    Wrong.

    Black bars top & bottom relates only to the aspect ratio (width vs height)
    of the visible image.

    In article <IaWdnagop8MYEv3fRVn-gA@giganews.com> "Brian The Demolition Man
    Little" <a@b.c> writes:

    >Eddie G wrote:
    >> This isn't an HD question, but a widescreen question. I rented a PPV
    >> movie that is in widescreen, and it played with the black bars on the
    >> top and bottom of the screen even though I have a widescreen TV. Why
    >> is this, and should I rent the NON widescreen version next time?
    >
    >Sounds like you rented a standard def version of a movie but its in
    >Widescreen. Usually with PPV unless its stated being in HD then it
    >won't take advantage of your TV.
    >
    >Brian The Demolition Man Little
    >
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