P35-DS3R - resolved, it was the psu, thanks fellas

[adam_w]

Hi there. Just got a P35-DS3R from newegg, along with ram and a cpu. I'm hooking up my new goodies, and I get nothing, not even spinning fans. I've tried two different power supplies, one brand new, and I've tried it completely stripped down (nothing plugged in but the memory, the cpu and cpu fan header, the ATX plug and the 12v plug). When I use the case power switch, or jump the power switch header with wire, absolutely nothing happens.

I'm about to RMA the mobo, but I thought I'd do some searching around support forums, and I came across a mention of Gigabyte's "Qualified vendor list" for memory in another thread here. I hadn't known this list existed, and I don't see my memory on it. My question is, what happens when you use un"qualified" memory? This couldn't be the cause of my mobo refusing to power on at all, could it? Am I going to need new different memory, even after I get a working mobo?

Thanks in advance. For reference, the mobo is P35-DS3R 1066 rev 1.0, the cpu is an e6750, and the ram is 4 sticks of 1GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Model OCZ2P800R22GK.

Adam

 

[g-paw]

The mobo mfg approved list is just RAM they tested and obviously they can't test every mfg. Your best bet is to check the RAM mfg website, enter your mobo mfg and model and most of these sites will tell you what is compatible. If the RAM meets the specs of mobo, should be OK. Have you tested it out of the case. Make sure you have the precise number of stand offs, no more no less, and each is screwed done. Try it without the RAM. Triple check everything is plugged in properly. Definitely could be the mobo.

 

[boner]

i got the same problem and i would say to you that the best thing to do right now is to reset the CMOS and if you can get a cardboard and put the mobo there with just one memory stick... the video card and the power suply joint and the keyboard and dont worry about the fans not spinning... just give it like five to ten secons WHEN YOU RESET THE CMOS!!!

 

[adam_w]

Thanks guys. I haven't tried resetting the cmos, I will give that a shot tonight but it's a bit of a moot point since my replacement should be here today. I also didn't try booting without the ram - in my experience the worst ram in the world won't keep the mobo from powering up, even if it keeps it from posting or putting out beep codes, but I guess it's worth a shot.

 

[adam_w]

Okay, can anyone offer any suggestions here? I've gotten two of these from newegg, I can't get either one to fire up, at all. I'm not a neophyte at this, I've set up maybe a dozen boxes in the last decade, and I've no idea what I'm doing wrong. Here's what I did:

1. Unwrap the mobo, being super careful of static
2. Mount it on my case's pull-out tray, using normal small screws on all the risers
3. Remove the cpu guard, fit the cpu and lock it down, mount the cpu fan and plug it in (yes, to the correct header)
4. Plug in the 24-pin ATX plug and the 4-pin 12v plug
5. Put the whole shebang in the case, plug in the power-switch header, plug in the p/s, turn on the p/s, and hit the power.

Nothing. I then tried shorting the power switch pins (in case my case's power button was bad). Also tried clearing CMOS. There's no RAM in it, so it can't be bad RAM. I also tried unmounting from the case pan and firing it up while lying on the antistatic bag. Nothing. I've been through the manual, I can't see anything I've missed that would keep the mobo from powering on. I can't think of what I might be doing wrong here, can anyone suggest anything I might be screwing up? Oh, and the power supply is brand new (I tried my old one, which worked on the old mobo, no luck there either). Also, the p/s is auto-sensing, so there's no 110/220v switch for me to have messed up. Any ideas appreciated!

 

[adam_w]

Update - this may be a bad p/s problem, I couldn't get it to fire up by shorting the power pin. I don't know if the old "short the soft power pin to a ground pin" trick works on new ATX 2.2 power supplies, so I asked over in the power supplies forum. If that trick still works then I guess this (brand new) power supply is the problem.

 

[jsc]

I am more inclined to suspect a bad PSU.

Assemble only the motherboard, CPU & HSF, and PSU outside the case on an insulated surface. I use a nylon cutting board. Turn it on. I know it's stupid but ... make sure you are using the correct pins on the header.

It should unsuccessfully POST, probably indicating memory problems. If nothing happens, you have a problem with the CPU, motherboard, or PSU. And you have changed the motherboard.

Now try the old PSU. It may not have the capacity to run your new system, but it should run a breadboarded motherboard.

What are the specs for the old and new PSU's?

 

[adam_w]

Thanks for the reply jsc, from your comment I'm guessing you were typing that at the same time as I was adding my last post. I had tried the cpu/hsf/psu alone on the static bag, and still had no luck.

I now think the problem is the new p/s as well - I cannot get it to fire when I test it by jumping the pins. (though I don't know if that trick still works on ATX 2.2's, as I said) The old power supply does not work either, but I think that's expected: it has a 24 pin ATX plug, but it does not have the separate 4-pin 12v plug (those were uncommon when I built my last system). According to the mobo manual the system will not start without both the ATX and the 12v plugs plugged in.

So I think the new p/s is the issue, unless someone says "that old trick doesn't work on ATX 2.2's, you will have to go find your multimeter to see if the p/s is bad." Thanks for the help.

Adam

edit: oh yeah, the new p/s is a 430W Antec "earthwatts" with dual 12v@17A rails.

 

[T8RR8R]

I had a similar problem with a different mobo, come to find out. The 1st mobo was bad and it took the crucial ballistix with it when it died (at my door step). If you have a 2nd PSU try that, if you have even 1 stick of ram from a different mfg try that. Who knows, it could really be many things.

 

[BustedSony]

I had tried the cpu/hsf/psu alone on the static bag, and still had no luck.

I now think the problem is the new p/s as well

You do know that the static bag is conductive, right? I don't KNOW that it would cause a short, since I've never risked placing the MB on it.. So DON'T put the MB on a static bag. The only other way you've had the board mounted is on the pan, and there might ALSO be a stray post or oversized screw causing a short. The possibility of a short caused by either of these things is the only common element I can see, other than a mismounted CPU (it happens, rarely.)

 

[Zorg]

You do know that the static bag is conductive, right? I don't KNOW that it would cause a short, since I've never risked placing the MB on it.. So DON'T put the MB on a static bag. The only other way you've had the board mounted is on the pan, and there might ALSO be a stray post or oversized screw causing a short. The possibility of a short caused by either of these things is the only common element I can see, other than a mismounted CPU (it happens, rarely.)

Most anti static bags are not conductive. Certainly the pink ones are not. What do you think would happen if they put a mobo with a battery on it in a conductive bag. Right it would short out, and the battery would get hotter than hell.

 

[BustedSony]

Most anti static bags are not conductive. Certainly the pink ones are not. What do you think would happen if they put a mobo with a battery on it in a conductive bag. Right it would short out, and the battery would get hotter than hell.

I'm thinking more that the component leads would poke through to the metallic mesh comprising the shield. A motherboard is usually shipped sitting on the pink mat and wrapped in the antistatic bag. And a grey foam antistatic mat is actually conductive, it is used to short all the pins of a Cmos device for instance, it is certainly not "non-conductive." Anyway, not using an antistatic bag as a mat for a circuit board is something that has been drilled into us PC techs since the XT days, it just doesn't seem a good idea, and the OP was so insistent that he always placed the motherboard on the antistatic bag.

Frequently the Bios battery has a plastic shield snapped over it when the board is shipped, and the pins for the battery circuit are not exposed underneath, they are covered with shellac or paint.

My other point is that it is not unheard of, particularly with the 775-land, that an installer repeats the mistake of damaging some pins on the Motherboard, say by getting a fingernail under the CPU when dropping the chip in, or having it off-side when pressing down the mounting lever. This is all stretching, but these are two red flags that are in common with the OP's two motherboard installs.

 

[Zorg]

I only addressed the anti static bag. Some are conductive, but very very few these days. And none that have ever held any board with a battery. No manufacturer is that stupid. The battery is there to power the CMOS that holds up the changes to the BIOS, so they would be painting a lot of the bottom of the mobo. not just the bottom of the battery holder. I would bet that the anti static foam that you refer to is also non conductive. Try taking an ohm meter and measuring it. The foam that holds the OEM CPUs may be conductive, that is where they would use it. I have never taken a meter to it to check.

 

[adam_w]

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I had never heard of antistatic bags being conductive, but I'll just use my wooden workbench in the future. In any event, I had the same problem on the pan, and I'm sure the screws are properly placed, and there are no extra risers, so if it's shorting on the pan, it's due to a board defect (a short to the exposed grounds around the screw holes), and it's hard to believe that would happen on two boards in a row.

On the cpu though, I'm curious about Busted's comment about the cpu being "off-side" - could you expand on that? I haven't installed one of these before, and I was careful about not touching the pins, but I didn't follow any special steps, just lined it up with the notches, put it in place, and locked down the bar.

 

[Zorg]

If you didn't touch the pins, then the installation is virtually idiot proof. My guess is that you installed it correctly.

And your stat bag isn't conductive.

 

[onestar]

Most static bags are not conductive, however they DO build up a static charge on the outside of the bag. It is better to be safe than sorry when dealing with the big bags motherboards are shipped in.

 

[jsc]

For an antistatic bag to work, it has to be conductive. It will be extremely poorly conductive, probably not much better than damp air, but it doesn't take much to control static electricity. The resistance is high enough that any multimeter you have around the house will indicate "infinity". Everyone assumes that means "open", but it also means a resistance too high for that particular instrument to measure.

Tech note: "Conductance" is the inverse of "resistance". It is measured in "mhos" which is the reciprocal of "ohms".

adam,
Temporarily shorting the motherboard power pins is all the case power switch does. And the 4/8 pin 12 volt cable feeds power to the programmable voltage regulator on the motherboard that powers the CPU.

Troubleshooting hint: To check a case power switch, swap it with the reset switch. I have seen a bad power switch, but it's unlikely that both switches would be bad.

 

[adam_w]

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned that I did indeed bypass the power switch by just shorting the power switch header pins (brushing them with a piece of wire) while everything was hooked up, still no love.

 

[Zorg]

For an antistatic bag to work, it has to be conductive. It will be extremely poorly conductive, probably not much better than damp air, but it doesn't take much to control static electricity. The resistance is high enough that any multimeter you have around the house will indicate "infinity". Everyone assumes that means "open", but it also means a resistance too high for that particular instrument to measure.

Let us not split hairs. If my Fluke measures infinity then by all intents and purposes the bag is not conductive, specifically with regards to causing a problem by placing the mobo, with the battery installed, on it. Or for any other problem that might be created by setting anything on a conductive surface. The conductive anti stat bags that BustedSony was talking about can be measured with an ohm meter and will damage a PCB, that has a battery installed on it, if it is placed inside.

 

[BustedSony]

If you didn't touch the pins, then the installation is virtually idiot proof. My guess is that you installed it correctly.

IF the pins weren't touched, such as by the edge of the CPU when it's first dropped in. Yes 775 installation is Idiot-Proof, however adam_w doesn't strike me as being an idiot, :lol: and some pretty bright guys, as well as myself, HAVE in fact screwed up a P4/Conroe CPU install. I recently had a system that wouldn't boot up at all, finally I removed the CPU and found that a piece of component wire had wedged down amongst the 775 socket pins. It was the most devilish job imaginable getting that wire freed from the pins of this brand new P5K, however I managed it, without damage, and the system ran fine afterwards. Where that fragment of wire came from I'll never know....

 

[Zorg]

IF the pins weren't touched, such as by the edge of the CPU when it's first dropped in. Yes 775 installation is Idiot-Proof, however adam_w doesn't strike me as being an idiot, :lol: and some pretty bright guys, as well as myself, HAVE in fact screwed up a P4/Conroe CPU install. I recently had a system that wouldn't boot up at all, finally I removed the CPU and found that a piece of component wire had wedged down amongst the 775 socket pins. It was the most devilish job imaginable getting that wire freed from the pins of this brand new P5K, however I managed it, without damage, and the system ran fine afterwards. Where that fragment of wire came from I'll never know....

I don't know what to tell you, I just built three w/ DQ6 and Q6600s. I dropped them right in no problem. How did you not see that wire? Were you drinking? I always like to have a few brews while I'm working on the car. I always loose a bolt somewhere down in the chassis and it takes me an hour to find it. I finally decided to keep the brew to a minimum until I was almost done with the job. [:zorg]

 

[BustedSony]

I don't know what to tell you, I just built three w/ DQ6 and Q6600s. I dropped them right in no problem. How did you not see that wire? Were you drinking? I always like to have a few brews while I'm working on the car. I always loose a bolt somewhere down in the chassis and it takes me an hour to find it. I finally decided to keep the brew to a minimum until I was almost done with the job. [:zorg]

No, I don't drink, at all. My guess is it was stuck on my sleeve from a circuit board repair job earlier in the day, also I have five cats..... As you say, you just drop the CPU right in, you don't look through a magnifying glass while doing so..

One can only expect the expected

 

[Zorg]

I do at least take a glance. I bet you will look next time. I'm happy to hear that you didn't fry anything.

 

[adam_w]

And the moral of the story is, it was the power supply. An ATX tester confirmed that the psu was bad - what are the odds? I've never seen an Antec doa. Anyway, the replacement is in, and the new box is up and formatting away merrily. Thanks for all the advice guys, it's much appreciated.

As for the other stuff, I've got my doubts about anti-static bags, but I'll do my building on wood from now on, better safe than sorry. That sucks about the little bit of wire Busted, but it's kind of amazing that the cpu actually lived through that. Here's my horror story: back in the Celery days, I had a couple of celeron 366's that would run stable at 550, so I had bought a BP-6 to put them in, so I could be the first guy on the block with a gig box. I had the case open with the BP-6 mounted and I was seating the cpus when my roommate thought it would be funny to dump the shipping box full of styrofoam peanuts on my head. Not the new squishy kind, the closed-cell styrofoam ones that act like little static factories. A bunch of em fell in the case, all over the mobo, the exposed cpu slots, memory slots, everything. I about killed her, but there was no damage, and that box went on to host many a game of quake.

Again, thanks guys.

 

[BustedSony]

I do at least take a glance. I bet you will look next time. I'm happy to hear that you didn't fry anything.

Hehe, it was open clamp, remove protective cover plate, drop in CPU, close clamp. The wire was long, but tiny enough to have to catch the light in the right way to be seen. Maybe it slipped in just as I was dropping in the CPU. It's almost as if the wire was stuck there as delivered. But yes, even though I'd done 20-21 775 installs before that I have been shining more light on the area since. It IS lucky, as the OP said, that there was no damage. But CPUs and onboard power regulators are pretty smart and tough birds, and protect themselves against dead shorts.