Time for a new system. Lots to choose from... 3-4k CND to spend

[Darkmatterx]

So, after having my P4 3ghz for quite a while I'm getting a new system. I'm going to be getting the Q6600 like many people and I have a few questions. I pretty much want the best bang for my buck in getting a high end fairly quiet system so I need to make sure I'm getting the parts that are best for me, and that will work well together. I have $3000-$4000ish Canadian to spend.


1. I ordered a $100 off ATI X1950Pro PCI-Express 256MB to tide me over till '08 when the new cards come out but since we don't know what brand of vid card is going to take top spot I dunno if I'll be going Nvidia or ATI(AMD) and while I've never gone SLI before I don't like closing options before I know all the facts. Most boards seem to only support SLI in ATI OR Nvidia, not both. (I've always gone ATI since I'm Canadian but since they've been sold to a US company, I don't care anymore. One thing I DO like about Nvidia boards these days is that some boards can detect the best possible overclock for your memory)

2. I'm not a big overclocker, though I don't mind squeezing a little bit out of my systems. Noise is something I want to keep down this time around so I'm looking at a case to help with that. Perhaps an Antec SOLO (P150Black) or Antec P180. I'm not sure if these are about the same in air cooling + noise since there are so many options... I'm not sure what size board I'll get but from what I've seen, the good high end boards are all pretty full sized ATX boards so I have to take that into account when picking a Case.

3. I'm going with DDR2 this time around due to price, but I will be getting high end memory. Probably Corsair XMS but I'm not sure if I'll go 2gig or 4gig total. I plan on suiciding myself on Vista 64bit when I update so the 4gig wouldn't be waste. If 64bit pisses me off I'll just reinstall the 32bit version of Vista, or XP and settle on 3gig for now. I do work in Photoshop and 3DSMax if your wondering why I would want to go 4gig+ right now. I really don't want to spend 500+ on DDR2 right now so I doubt I'll be getting the highest DDR2 since I also am not a big overclocker. I'll probably get 1 step down from the top stuff.

4. I need a Powersupply that will have long enough cords to reach around the case of the P180 if I go that route as well as supply enough power for a future card update or update to SLI. I also want it to be QUIET. I also hear that the new power supplies use a new connector system so since I'm getting all new components I'll assume I'll need my power supply to be able to handle that.

5. Monitor - I'm going to be getting a 24" wide screen but I just don't know which one. I currently have a Mitsubishi 22" 2070 black which is a really nice CRT except for it being huge. I have been looking at either the Dell 24", Samsung, or a BenQ. I need a monitor that has good color, contrast and brightness for my photoshop/max stuff but I will also be gaming on this so the refresh rate has to be low as well. Many people say Dell or Samsung but I've read some reviews that insist that the BenQ 24" Wide is some sort of jewel among 24"ers. Any thoughts?

6. Other crap - I think I'll get 1 Western Digital 750GB hard drive for now and give it 3 partitions to duel boot Vista 64 and XP Pro 32bit on there own partitons and the 3rd one for my crap. I read that the WD 750 is really good and rather quiet. I'll probably grab a new ethernet card unless the board I get has a good one in it. Also, I will need a new audio card because I plan to use my old system so I can't canabalize the Audigy 2 from it for my new system. I hear the X-FI or whatever from Creative is the new "it" thing but honestly I haven't read any reviews yet to know if theres really a difference I will hear. I will probably take my reatively new Logitech 5300Z (I think) speakers with me to my new system as well as my newest CD-DVD burner.


So, to summarize since this is a stupidly long post (I love getting a new system but it can be complicated)

I'm thinking of getting...

CPU - Q6600

MB - X83

Memory - Corsair XMS 2 gig or 4 gig total. Something less then $500 since I'm not a huge overclocker.

Video Card - ATI X1950Pro PCI-Express 256MB (already purchaced cause of sale. Will tide me over till new '08 cards come out.

Hard Drive - WD 750GB

Sound Card - X-FI (right name?)

Power Supply - 500 to 600w should be good, as long as it has long cords and is quiet.

Case - Looking at Antec P180 or SOLO. Just want something with good cooling and quiet.

Monitor - 24" Widescreen. Need good color/contrast/brightness and low timings. Dell, Samsung, BenQ?

Operating System - Vista 64bit because I do work in Photoshop and Max and don't want to be limited to under 4gig ram. Vista 64bit comes with the 32bit version incase I decide to install that instead. I will duel boot to XP Pro as well incase I have problems. Should I get the OEM FULL Ultimate or non OEM? Or maybe the Home Premium, I'm not sure if I really need that file encryption or whatever else Ultimate has. I DO want the full install so I don't have to install XP first before installing Vista. OEM is cheaper but no support which scares the hell outta me right now... But its a LOT cheaper....

Yea wow that was long. Big thanks to ANYONE brave enough to tackle this post and actually read it all and answer... You get a cookie!

Thanks!

 

[xrodney]

If you plan using 64b Vista and applications as photoshop, 4GB ram will be much better, just upgraded mine from 2->4 and its running like dream finaly without much hdd acces.

Not sure if Fujitsu siemens making 24", but their 17/19/20" was one of best (in cheap part of market ofcourse)
HP also is not bad and it offer 0 pixel waranty and on site support.

For powersupply i will go probably Enermax or other T1/T2, cost litle more, but have usualy better parts with higher eficiency and MODULAR connectors.

For cases i realy dont have experience with Antec, mostly time used Chieftec fulltower for space and realy good hdd cooling/mounting system, only problem with them they are realy weighty 14kg but it came with better more durable construction so i dont mind for less vibrations

For harddisks if your budged allowe it go for 2 hdds, one small for system and other big for data, it will brink faster system then partitions on same hdd.

 

[Darkmatterx]

Thanks for the suggestions Xrodney

Anyone else have any thoughts? I know its a long post but I will have a LOT of cash invested in this rig...

 

[zenmaster]

Don't buy an "Enthusiast" Ethernet Card.
Totally pointless.

If looking for a good on-board NIC, look for Broadcomm.
They have really good Windows drivers.

However, it is REALLY not going to matter.

And don't fret too much about the quality of the RAM.
The Core2Duo are not highly sensitive to speeds.
And you can find decent 4-4-4-12 RAM toward the lower section.
Additionall, DDR2-800 will OC the Q6600 to near extreme levels at stock speeds so need to worry about getting RAM that OCs well beyond 800mhz.

 

[Guest]

2x2GB of 4-4-4-12 RAM is still pretty expensive right now from what I saw. I had to buy 5-5-5-15 for $210 because it was the cheapest/best timings. 4-4-4-12 was over $500.

 

[WR2]

Operating System - Vista 64bit because I do work in Photoshop and Max and don't want to be limited to under 4gig ram. Vista 64bit comes with the 32bit version incase I decide to install that instead. I will duel boot to XP Pro as well incase I have problems. Should I get the OEM FULL Ultimate or non OEM? Or maybe the Home Premium, I'm not sure if I really need that file encryption or whatever else Ultimate has. I DO want the full install so I don't have to install XP first before installing Vista. OEM is cheaper but no support which scares the hell outta me right now... But its a LOT cheaper....

Getting Vista OEM means having to choose between 32bit or 64bit - you can't get both.
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade - Retail is probably what you want. It comes with the 32bit DVD but you can order the 64bit DVD (you pay shipping and handling charges) from MS. (Prices shown are US$)
32bit or 64 bit Home Premium (not both) OEM $112
32bit and 64bit Home Premium upgrade $150
32bit and 64bit Home Premium retail $220

Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC or SAMSUNG 244t or BenQ FP241W
Any one of that trio will keep you happy with your display.

 

[Darkmatterx]

Zen - I didn't mean I wanted some super ethernet card. I just wasn't sure if the board I was gonna get would have a decent NIC in it. I'll keep your suggestion in mind though. As for ram, should I stick with 800 or go up 1 MHZ lvl (1066 is it) to be on the safe side that it'll handle any CPU OCing I do?

Deuce - Ouch I'll have to take a look at some prices... Lower timings do make a difference so I might shell out some extra cash. I guess I should get 2 2gig sticks if I can. I hear they work better and run faster in some boards and ofcourse leaves room for upgrades later. Although that'll up the price. One thing I don't ever see on DDR2 ram is the old T1, T2 timing. Is this not looked at anymore because all DDR2/3 is T1 by default?


WR2 - Well I don't want upgrade cause then I have to install XP FIRST and then install Vista. I'd also have to wait for my 64bit version to come in the mail. To avoid all of that I'll probably have to get the Home Premium Retail.

 

[Guest]

Prices may have changed, but last week when I was buying 2GB sticks, best price/timings I could find was $210 for 5-5-5-15. This may change entirely over the next few weeks. But I'd go 2x2GB so you can upgrade to 8GB in the future. And 2x2GB runs better, and easier if OCing, than 4x1GB.

 

[WR2]

Even with the retail version of Vista you'll have to wait for the 64bit version to come in the mail (and pay shipping and handling charges).
A little work with google should get you a "Vista upgrade workaround" solution to let you do a clean Vista install on one of your HD partitions.

DDR2 800 RAM is good for reaching a 400FSB without even being overclocked. Lower RAM timing do make a difference but that difference is offset by CPU overclocking. Overall performance with 4-4-4-12 RAM & stock CPU will be less than CL5 RAM & lightly OC'd CPU.

 

[Guest]

If you get good air cooling, you can use a 400 FSB with an 8x multiplier and OC that quad core to 3.2Ghz and maintain that 1:1 ratio between your memory and FSB. And all w/out having to OC your memory.

 

[Darkmatterx]

Even with the retail version of Vista you'll have to wait for the 64bit version to come in the mail (and pay shipping and handling charges).
A little work with google should get you a "Vista upgrade workaround" solution to let you do a clean Vista install on one of your HD partitions.

DDR2 800 RAM is good for reaching a 400FSB without even being overclocked. Lower RAM timing do make a difference but that difference is offset by CPU overclocking. Overall performance with 4-4-4-12 RAM & stock CPU will be less than CL5 RAM & lightly OC'd CPU.

Can't you buy Vista 64bit right from a store? Maybe then order the 32bit free except for shipping? Is there no way to get the 64bit version other by mail?? As for the upgrade version vs full, I'll have to google it, thanks, I never would have looked at that.



I have a question about this statement you made

Overall performance with 4-4-4-12 RAM & stock CPU will be less than CL5 RAM & lightly OC'd CPU.

If I'm spending all this money, why wouldn't I just get 4-4-4-12 Ram AND OC my CPU a bit? I'm guessing that its hard to overclock the CPU with RAM with those tight timings because of how it effects the RAM speed, BUT if I get 1066 mhz ram instead of 800 I have the headroom to overclock my CPU AND still keep the tight timings don't I? Or am I missing something?

Also, what are your thoughts on what Motherboard and case I should get? These are 2 things I'm really not sure about. I meantioned in my first post what I was thinking about regarding these 2 items.

Thanks!

 

[Darkmatterx]

If you get good air cooling, you can use a 400 FSB with an 8x multiplier and OC that quad core to 3.2Ghz and maintain that 1:1 ratio between your memory and FSB. And all w/out having to OC your memory.

I'll be picking up a Thermalright Ultima-90 unless I'm told a good reason not too. I've read its a really good HS and not as heavy as its big brother. I can't remember off hand the name of the company/s that makes really killer low noise fans, but I'm sure you know them.

As for the RAM, maintaining the 1:1 would let me use DDR2 800 and not worry about OC'ing it and having to loosen up the timings, but as I posted above, if I get the 1066 mhz version I have the breathing room to take advantage of the higher clock speeds on the RAM and not have to worry about loosening the timings because the RAM is rated for the higher speeds.

Also, what are your thoughts on what Motherboard and case I should get? These are 2 things I'm really not sure about. I meantioned in my first post what I was thinking about regarding these 2 items. I asked the same thing in my post above this directed at WR2, so sorry for the double asking, but I wasn't sure if you'd see it Deuce since the last post was a reply to WR2.

Thanks

 

[jevon]

I'm in a bit of a hurry so I just wanted to quickly ask you where you were planning on buying your parts from? Sorry if you already mentioned it, but I just wanted to quickly say that I don't see any reason to even approach the $4k CDN amount if you're putting it together yourself? I live in Ontario, and the computer I'll be building soon will mostly be bought in pieces from DirectCanada.com and NCIX.com, both of which are located in BC so I only have to pay the GST.

The motherboard I'm looking at is the Gigabyte P35 GA-P35C-DS3R as it supports both DDR2 and DDR3 (for down the road when it's more affordable) and it's gotten great reviews thus far.

Anyway just wanted to quickly ask if there was a particular reason you have your budget set so high, sorry again if I missed that in one of your posts!

Good luck!

 

[Darkmatterx]

I don't HAVE to go to that price. $3k would be better. But I'm taking into account the 24" Wide monitor and saving aside some money to get a top end video card in early '08 when the new cards come out.

Edit: I've heard the Gigabyte P35 is a good board and that the new X82 series which is coming out this week will first hit the shelves by Gigabyte and that it is also a good board. I've also heard that Asus has a good P35 board out. I know of the Striker Extreme but honestly, I'm not overclocking anywhere near what it would be worth for me to get that beast. If I went Asus I'd get something less crazy then that.

Anyone have any thoughts on motherboards? Get a current Asus or Gigabyte? Or get a new X82? I have heard that the X82s that are coming out this week will have an older revision of chip and that if I wait a little bit I should be able to get one with the new Version 2 chip. Any truth to this? (why is buying parts so complicated!!!)

 

[WR2]

Thermalright Ultima-90 - excellent choice in terms of cooling performance, price and size/weight. Get a good 92 Panflo fan to go with it and you'll be in good shape for overclocking.

While you can see the effect of higher speed vs lower latency has on performance most of these type reviews use the lower resolution and/or lower quality settings to allow the differences to be seen. By the time you have the resolution cranked up to 1920x1200 and very high to ultra quality settings the differences between more expensive 1066 low latency and budget 800 CL5 performance can't actually be noticed. With just a slight voltage increase most DDR2 will go to 900Mzh (FSB to 450) without any loosening of timings. That would have the E6750 running @ 3.6Ghz and effective FSB 1800. I'd guess most E6750 OC'ing aims for 400FSB @~3.2Ghz for 24/7 operation.

I'm sure you've seen the early reviews of the X38 chipset motherboards Gigabyte X38 DQ6 That review also shows performance vs the Abit IP-35 Pro which is the P35 motherboard I'd suggest if you dont want to spend the $100 or so an X38 board is likely to cost. Abit IP-35 Pro review (note that the P35 motherboard "unofficially" supports Crossfire). IMO the major difference between X38 and P35 will be official Crossfire support & a few extra % in gaming performance. If you're firmly in the one high end video card camp vs 2 CF/SLI video cards its hard to make a good case (price vs performance) for the extra cost of a X38 MB.

If you can find a P182 case at a good price I'm sure you'll be happy with that choice. Any quality PSU in the 600-650W range should be plenty for X38/P35 and single top video card system. JonnyGuru List of High End Gaming PSUs Example of a quiet quality PSU: Corsair 620W $165CDN

 

[Darkmatterx]

Ya I was gonna get the Corsair PSU, but was gonna get the 520W. I probably won't go SLI since I've always prefered 1 high end card, and since I won't be seriously OCing I think the 520 should be good. Also its quieter.

As for the case, do you not like the SOLO? Do you think it'll be to small for what I need? I only ask because I don't like the door on the 182

 

[WR2]

I do like the Solo case. But if you're thinking of a GPU upgrade to a 8800GTX size'd card you'd need to be comfortable with doing the "dremel mod" to make it fit. My first custom build used the Antec P160 case. Apart from the GPU upgrade issue with the largest card the Solo would meet your needs.

Your suspicion that the 520W Corsair will meet your needs is correct. I usually suggest the next size in case someone expects to keep the system and do some moderate upgrading over 4-5 years.

 

[Darkmatterx]

Hmm no I'd rather not start carving out peices of my case... I guess I can get use to a frigging DOOR. /ARGH

On the bright side, I found out that the front of the SOLO isn't brushed steel as it looks like, its plastic that looks like brushed steel in the pictures. That makes me feel better about not getting it. I guess its the P182 for me. I personally don't think the case looks very nice with the door open but we'll see.