8800 GTX Bottleneck question?

Hi
I appologise for this long post in advance
I have recently upgraded my graphics card from a 7900gs to a BFG GeForce 8800 GTX OC 768MB.
When playing any games at resolution 1440 x 900 i get an average frame rate 50 and sometime lower 40 - 45 on games like quake wars and team fortress 2. i'm guessing it's a bottleneck most likely my CPU if i'm right.

I ask you experts out there. before i dish out some more cash on a new motherboard / processor. is that the likely fault here or is could it be something else.

Thanks in advance for any advice


My Specs are:
-----------------------------
Processor AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ runs at 2.41 ghz
Ram 2GB at 800 MHz
GeForce 8800 GTX
700W power supply
Windows Vista Business Edition


3DMark06 Scores
----------------------------
3DMark Score 8336 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score 3710 Marks
SM 3.0 Score 4305 Marks
CPU Score 1708 Marks


Graphics Tests
1 - Return to Proxycon 30.595 FPS
2 - Firefly Forest 31.241 FPS

CPU Tests
CPU1 - Red Valley 0.538 FPS
CPU2 - Red Valley 0.867 FPS

HDR Tests
1 - Canyon Flight (SM 3.0) 45.936 FPS
2 - Deep Freeze (SM 3.0) 40.157 FPS


Graphics Card
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-035-BG&tool=3

Motherboard
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/113971/show_product_specifications
33 answers Last reply
More about 8800 bottleneck question
  1. Even with that proc, which could be hampering performance a little, you should be getting better results than that.
  2. Well a couple of things that spring to mind would be vertical sinc being enabled but that should put you on a pretty solid 60 fps so the next thing is do you have all the power cables attached properly as the card would throttle back if it was under powered.
    Mactronix
  3. i dont think your cpu bottleneck your gtx. AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600 is a good cpu, not the best but good enough for gaming. the problems might be elsewhere, like video card voltage.
  4. Thanks for the comments guys. is there anyway i can figure out if the card is running low on power?
  5. ironjaw said:
    Thanks for the comments guys. is there anyway i can figure out if the card is running low on power?

    What's your amp rating for your psu?
    If it's not over 30 (at least that may be a problem).
  6. Well, normally a GTX with a mild overclock scores around 5000 in either SM tests, so is evident that something is holding you back.
  7. I believe that it is your cpu that bottlenecks your vidcard. At your settings, a Q6600 at 3GHz would bottleneck the 8800GTX. Upgrading your cpu or overclocking it to 3Ghz should raise your gpu score to at least 5000 for both sm scores.
  8. AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600 will not bottleneck a gtx, get your fact right. Faster cpu like Q6600@3GHz will of coz scores higher than his AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600. in his case, cpu is not the problem.
  9. kpo6969 said:
    What's your amp rating for your psu?
    If it's not over 30 (at least that may be a problem).

    Here are the output characteristics strait from the box

    +3.3V : 30A
    +5V : 38A
    +12V1 : 22A
    +12V2 : 22A
    -5V : -
    -12V : 0.6A
    +5Vsb : 3A

    I assume your referring to duel rail +12V1 and +12V2 which are currently connected to the graphics card.
    do you think this is causing the problem?
  10. it seems that disconnecting one of my harddrives increases the 3DMark rating very slightly. can anyone else confirm if 22A amp rating will cause a problem?
  11. Can you run it at a higher resolution?
  12. To elaborate on what jim_L9 is asking about the res-
    If you bump the res up and your score goes up then that proves that the CPU is causing a bottleneck but if it dosent then you can rule it out.
    It works like this if you run at a low resolution then the card isnt using its full potential and a lot of the work is being done by the CPU.A lot of people think this works the other way around but trust me it dosent.
    When you run at higher resolutions the GPU is forced to do more work and takes the load away from the CPU giving you a better frame rate.
    Mactronix
  13. Maybe the hard disk is holding things back? It sure is in my case (Q6600/8800 GTX OC2). The X2 4600 is a very decent CPU and I don't think it's causing your problem.

    What kind of fps were you getting with the old card?

    Did you get the latest nVidia drivers? I have recently replaced the official July version with the beta September version and I'm glad I did. It fixed all the crashes I used to get in Titan Quest, for one thing. I'm using XP, though.

    Can you try the same games on the same PC but booting in XP instead of Vista?
  14. mactronix said:
    To elaborate on what jim_L9 is asking about the res-
    If you bump the res up and your score goes up then that proves that the CPU is causing a bottleneck but if it dosent then you can rule it out.
    It works like this if you run at a low resolution then the card isnt using its full potential and a lot of the work is being done by the CPU.A lot of people think this works the other way around but trust me it dosent.
    When you run at higher resolutions the GPU is forced to do more work and takes the load away from the CPU giving you a better frame rate.
    Mactronix


    I tryed Bioshock and used fraps to record the frame rate here are the results:

    Max settings
    -------------------------------
    640x480 : 40-55 fps
    800x600 : 40-55 fps
    1024x768 : 40-55 fps
    1280x1024 : 40-55 fps
    1440 x 900 : 40-55 fps


    Low settings (everything switched off)
    -------------------------------
    640x480 : 55-60 fps
    800x600 : 55-60 fps
    1024x768 : 55-60 fps
    1280x1024 : 55-60 fps
    1440 x 900 : 55-60 fps

    so regardless of what res i get the same result :(

    also half life 2 reaches 160 frames. but most of the time 75 - 80 fps. this frame rate is the same regardless of res setting or game settings.


    Anonymous said:
    Maybe the hard disk is holding things back? It sure is in my case (Q6600/8800 GTX OC2). The X2 4600 is a very decent CPU and I don't think it's causing your problem.

    What kind of fps were you getting with the old card?

    Did you get the latest nVidia drivers? I have recently replaced the official July version with the beta September version and I'm glad I did. It fixed all the crashes I used to get in Titan Quest, for one thing. I'm using XP, though.

    Can you try the same games on the same PC but booting in XP instead of Vista?


    i can't remember the exact frame rate on my last card. but it was higher than 50 for sure. but since then my fps has been changed as well. from a 450 to a 700w.

    tryed the beta drivers and the performance is still the same. i will install xp and see if the performance changes
  15. Right then considering the fps are higher at lower settings even if they are all the same then i think we can rule out the CPU.
    Can you check in the control pannel of the graphics card that it is running the correct clocks,this should show if the card is throttled down for some reason.
    Mactronix
  16. mactronix said:
    Well a couple of things that spring to mind would be vertical sinc being enabled but that should put you on a pretty solid 60 fps so the next thing is do you have all the power cables attached properly as the card would throttle back if it was under powered.
    Mactronix
    ??
  17. So, if you replace the 7900 GS with the 8800 GTX, and replace the PSU, and everything else is the same (CPU, RAM, O/S, screen resolution, hard disk), you actually get fewer fps? If that's the case, then this is not a bottleneck, it's a malfunctioning video card. If it had been a bottleneck you'd have had the same fps, not lower.

    Possible causes include:

    - something s****** up in the O/S; possibly drivers need to be cleaned up and reinstalled, or even the whole O/S
    - power issues (bad PSU, or power cables not connected properly)
    - bad card

    I'd do what Mactronix said first, i.e. take the card out, disconnect all cables from it, put it back. If that doesn't do anything then get the driver cleanup tool (sorry, forgot where to get it, but it's been mentioned frequently on this forum), run it, reinstall drivers. If still nothing then try with a clean XP install. If still bad then try getting a new card. Good luck, and keep us posted!
  18. Well if it's not the cpu bottle necking, since the 7900 GS scores higher, it seems to me that maybe V-sync is on? Nah, it should still get at least 60fps. Try changing around the settings in the nvidia control panel. If that doesn't do anything, RMA.

    Oh and Accu, I'm pretty sure that the 8800GTX WILL be bottle-necked by a 4600+ at 1440 x 900 clocked at 2.41GHz, in some games anyways. As for 3dmark scores, if your Sm2 and 3 scores go up dramatically (1000 points) due to overclocking the cpu, doesn't that mean the graphics card was being bottlenecked?
  19. mactronix said:
    Right then considering the fps are higher at lower settings even if they are all the same then i think we can rule out the CPU.
    Can you check in the control pannel of the graphics card that it is running the correct clocks,this should show if the card is throttled down for some reason.
    Mactronix


    GPU core (3D) : 594.000 MHz
    GPU memory : 900.000 MHz


    not sure if the other info is relevant but here it is:

    reference clock (HTT) : 200.966 MHz
    HT multiplier: 5.0x
    HT bus frequency 1004.828 MHz
    CPU multiplier: 12.0x
    CPU core frequency : 2411.583 MHz

    Memory bus frequency : 669.24(DDR2) MHz


    PCI-E bus (SSP) : 2500.000 MHz
    PCI-E bus (MCP) : 2500.000MHz
    PCI bus : 33.000 MHz
  20. funny thing i just checked the manufacturer's website website and saw this.

    "A 475W PCI Express-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 32A or more *Minimum system power requirement based on a standard PC configured with an Intel® Core™2 Extreme X6800 processor 30A"
    http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgr88768gtxoce.aspx

    which leads me to believe that my PSU with 12V 22A power rating might very well be the cause. can't exactly tell that without getting a another new PSU.
  21. Maybe...however if there wasn't enough power going in to the card, shouldn't the game just crash? That's just from my experience.
  22. ironjaw said:
    Here are the output characteristics strait from the box

    +3.3V : 30A
    +5V : 38A
    +12V1 : 22A
    +12V2 : 22A
    -5V : -
    -12V : 0.6A
    +5Vsb : 3A

    I assume your referring to duel rail +12V1 and +12V2 which are currently connected to the graphics card.
    do you think this is causing the problem?

    Post your psu specs (brand, model #)
    Your looking for the combined maximum total wattage on the 12v rails (minus 3.3 and 5v) divided by 12 = amps
    This was the figure I was refering to in my previous post:

    kpo6969 wrote :
    What's your amp rating for your psu?
    If it's not over 30 (at least that may be a problem).
  23. 22A on rail one + 22A on rail two = 44A combined rating. Most power supplies cant put out max ratings on both rails, but you should be over 30A. Try to give your graphics card one of you 12V rails and all your peripherals (HDD CD/DVD drives, floppiy, fans, ect) the other.
  24. skywalker9952 said:
    22A on rail one + 22A on rail two = 44A combined rating. Most power supplies cant put out max ratings on both rails, but you should be over 30A. Try to give your graphics card one of you 12V rails and all your peripherals (HDD CD/DVD drives, floppiy, fans, ect) the other.

    This:
    Your looking for the combined maximum total wattage on the 12v rails (minus 3.3 and 5v) divided by 12 = amps
    Has nothing to do with adding 22 + 22
    Please explain how you "give" 12v rails to peripherals specifically
  25. kpo6969 said:
    Post your psu specs (brand, model #)
    Your looking for the combined maximum total wattage on the 12v rails (minus 3.3 and 5v) divided by 12 = amps
    This was the figure I was refering to in my previous post:

    kpo6969 wrote :
    What's your amp rating for your psu?
    If it's not over 30 (at least that may be a problem).



    i'm not sure how to work out that value from what you've described? combined maximum total wattage?

    The Brand is Arctic Power 700W. The model is Arctic 700. i'm trying to provide you a link on ebuyer where i got it from. but they seems to have discontinued it.
    The exact decription is.
    "Arctic Power 700W PSU - With PCI-E, SATA, 20+4, ATX12V, 8pin +12V Connectors - Retail Boxed"

    the 600W version is still available http://www.ebuyer.com/product/124926
  26. My 2 rail power supply has two bundles of cords coming out of the PSU, I am assuming one is connected to one rail and the other to the other rail maybe I am wrong, in which case where is your second rail?
  27. skywalker9952 said:
    My 2 rail power supply has two bundles of cords coming out of the PSU, I am assuming one is connected to one rail and the other to the other rail maybe I am wrong, in which case where is your second rail?

    Both rails are connected to the graphics card. except the second rail is also powering a 250 SATA hard drive.
  28. it seems to depend slightly on what game;

    http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=618&p=2

    some games make no difference from 3800+ to Q6600, but some do seem to get a boost by going to a core2duo E6300 (and then don't get a boost from there up)
  29. Check your drivers. Just get driver cleaner and re-install. If you increase your resolution, youll see a closer to normal performance as the larger res demands more from the gpu, BUT being a larger res, your FPS will still be lower, just more comparable to other cards (GTX). Ive tried looking up your psu, its very hard to find, which usually means its an offbrand, therefor suspect. Out of those "700" watts theres alot going to the 3amp as well as the 5 amp. Im running a 420 watt psu and getting 18 amps per 12volt rail. Youre only getting maybe 4 more amps out of 280 watts more. Im running a 8800 GTS with it, and its fine, tho the GTX really pulls some juice. At this point theres no way of really knowing til you can try your card on a better psu or in another rig. It could be driver issues, or even heat issues, but if you have a friend that has a good psu, or lets you plop that bad boy in his rig, who knows?
  30. Since his sub par scores are most noticable with sm 2 and sm 3; I am thinking 'bad' or corrupted drivers over problem card/PSU issues or even some background program sucking resources. I can get over 4600 with a GTS 640 using a FX60@3ghz (cpu score 2218). My 3800x2@2.4ghz (1860) gets almost 100 more cpu points than his cpu. I have seen Q6600@3ghz and x1950pros not break 5800 3dmarks (their cpu scores are over 4400) due to poor set up/drivers. The whole problem maybe that his system is just not set up right rather than equipment problem.
  31. After messing about for hours. i borrowed a 6000+ x2 of a friend. we tried it on the pc and the frame rate was very stable. and the 3dmark scores increased dramatically. funny enough my bottleneck was the processor. which leads me to another question. do i upgrade to higher Athlon X2 CPU. or should i scrap that and buy an intel quad core processor and a new motherboard all together. if so ? can you guys recommend a processor?
    took a while at least i got to the problem. thanks for all your help guys.
  32. ironjaw said:
    After messing about for hours. i borrowed a 6000+ x2 of a friend. we tried it on the pc and the frame rate was very stable. and the 3dmark scores increased dramatically. funny enough my bottleneck was the processor. which leads me to another question. do i upgrade to higher Athlon X2 CPU. or should i scrap that and buy an intel quad core processor and a new motherboard all together. if so ? can you guys recommend a processor?
    took a while at least i got to the problem. thanks for all your help guys.


    I was just about to say it could be the processor, looking at those 3dmark results. At the CPU test:

    CPU Tests
    CPU1 - Red Valley 0.538 FPS
    CPU2 - Red Valley 0.867 FPS

    My E6750 is around 1.5 or double that, ill do a test now :)
  33. CPU Tests
    CPU1 - Red Valley 0.756 FPS

    CPU2 - Red Valley 1.217 FPS
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