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System crash when entering 3d with 2900 pro

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October 5, 2007 1:13:45 AM

I just installed the 2900 pro. It works fine in 2d, and the first game I tried was Bioshock, and it looks amazing and runs super smooth at 1280x1024 with everything on high. Then I tried CS: Source. Crashes right after startup. 3dmark05, crashes on startup, GTA: San Andreas, blank screen but sound is running.

Any ideas what the problem could be? My first thought is the dreaded insufficient PSU problem. My system:

e6300 at 2.8ghz
2gig ram
450W antec smartpower 2.0
ATI 2900 pro 512mb
Catalyst 7.9

The only reason I don't think it's the PSU is because Bioshock runs perfectly and that game is definitely straining my system to the max. Some sort of driver issue? Thanks.
October 5, 2007 1:54:47 AM

PSU. No doubt about it.
October 5, 2007 2:21:21 AM

Power Supply...
Related resources
October 5, 2007 2:56:52 AM

Yeah, I tried re-cabling things to make sure nothing else is plugged into the cables it uses and still no dice. I guess it really does surprise me that it uses THAT much more power than my 1800xt did. Plus I don't get why Bioshock runs fine but nothing else...
October 5, 2007 3:28:07 AM

The Smartpower 2.0, Earthwatts, Basiq, and Phantom series from Antec are NOT made to support any gaming systems whatsoever. Try the Antec NeoHE series for single card setups or Antec TruePower Quattro for SLI/Crossfire setups.
October 5, 2007 3:34:59 AM

Try Resitting the Card and swapping the 6pin pci-e plus with the other 1 which the PSU should have.
I had that problem yesterday and fixed it just by swapping cables!
I know it may sound weird but thats all i did...
October 5, 2007 4:14:53 AM

I gave that a shot. Still a no-go. Thanks for the help guys. Looks like I'm gonna have to either suck it up over the weekend or make a trip to some local computer store if I can't wait. Stupid PSUs are cheap online and ridiculously overpriced in stores.
October 5, 2007 4:32:59 AM

Get one online, and put some money into it, it does power your whole system.
October 5, 2007 4:41:51 AM

Oh god, my 2900pro comes in friday, and i have the same psu but 500w, i really hope its enough. ><
October 5, 2007 4:45:48 AM

norV said:
Oh god, my 2900pro comes in friday, and i have the same psu but 500w, i really hope its enough. ><

Your not too much better, 25amps
October 5, 2007 4:47:46 AM

ryanjm said:
I gave that a shot. Still a no-go. Thanks for the help guys. Looks like I'm gonna have to either suck it up over the weekend or make a trip to some local computer store if I can't wait. Stupid PSUs are cheap online and ridiculously overpriced in stores.


Ya, I never was one for going all out on power supplies. After building my own computer for the last 5+ years, I've never needed a fancy uberpowerful psu. In my mind, PSUs either work or they don't, so what's the point in spending a lot of extra money on them? Before this card, I had an 1800xt and it ran like a champ with that card. Never a problem. I guess when you're on the absolute cutting edge these things eat up more power though.
October 5, 2007 4:49:56 AM

I thought my psu has 32 amps? 15 + 17?

Link to review of it: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article260-page1.html
about halfway down it has the diagram of what the amperages are, etc...

I don't even understand what the 12v rail is and how I have two of them. I've got one huge cord that goes into my mobo, a bunch of sata connectors, a pci-e connector, and a bunch of other 4-prong connectors. I don't get how you can divide up the cords to make it so that they use their "share" of power. Is it possible I'm not using the full potential of my PSU because of how the cords are connected? Is the cord going into the mobo using all 300W of the 12v rails?
October 5, 2007 4:52:02 AM

I don't know what that card calls for but I' ll guess 30+
Read this and see what options are available to you

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=205763

Remember amps, watts can be mis-leading
For example my Dell 305w psu had 22amps which can run a 7900 series card
October 5, 2007 4:54:44 AM

ryanjm said:
I thought my psu has 32 amps? 15 + 17?

Link to review of it: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article260-page1.html
about halfway down it has the diagram of what the amperages are, etc...

I don't even understand what the 12v rail is and how I have two of them. I've got one huge cord that goes into my mobo, a bunch of sata connectors, a pci-e connector, and a bunch of other 4-prong connectors. I don't get how you can divide up the cords to make it so that they use their "share" of power. Is it possible I'm not using the full potential of my PSU because of how the cords are connected? Is the cord going into the mobo using all 300W of the 12v rails?

Antec Basiq BP350 12amps
Antec Basiq BP500U 27amps
Antec EarthWatts EA 380 27amps
Antec EarthWatts EA 430 30amps
Antec EarthWatts EA 500 34amps
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-350 17amps
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-400 21amps
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-450 22amps
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 25amps

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=205763
October 5, 2007 5:00:50 AM

WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP! Stupid sonata II case and included psu...
a c 112 U Graphics card
October 5, 2007 5:33:46 AM

the PSU may have been getting pushed too hard, but its not as bad as people make it out to be....

Ran my old system fine...

P5W DH Deluxe
e6600 @ 2.93
2 Gigs of DDR2
4 hard drives - 2 x 250 and 2 x 320
X1900XT(with some minor OCin)
Audigy 2zs
WinTV PVR 250
DVD-+R(W)

It was still not near overloading or it would have got allot louder. I forget the exact amount of power it took from the wall, but it was still not near full load....

In fact the only reason i replaced it was because of its piss poor efficiency(under 70% at my load). I did not want to waste extra power....

Is the 2900pro not just 19watts(1.6 amps) more then a X1900xt. maybe i was right on the edge....

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354&p...
October 5, 2007 6:29:58 AM

From the guru3d thread noted above:
Quote:
Also some of these figures (the Antec Smartpowers and all the Aspire units) are extrapolated from limited information provided and are merely the known minimum and I should have put an asterisk next to those but I didn't. The Smartpowers probably are capable of significantly more...

Not saying that they're great gaming PSUs but I think that they're probably more capable than we're giving them credit for.

-mcg
October 5, 2007 7:19:46 AM

I don't think you should worry too much before you have tried the card on your system.
I got mine 2900 Pro yesterday and it works just fine with my Fortron Blue Storm II 500W PSU. The only thing that disturbs me with this card is the noise. Otherwise it's just great
October 5, 2007 7:31:59 AM

Vandalz said:
I don't think you should worry too much before you have tried the card on your system.
I got mine 2900 Pro yesterday and it works just fine with my Fortron Blue Storm II 500W PSU. The only thing that disturbs me with this card is the noise. Otherwise it's just great

I wouldn't worry too much either if my psu had 31amps and running that card like you are.
October 5, 2007 7:38:37 AM

What do you mean with "running that card like you are"?
October 5, 2007 8:07:13 AM

Vandalz said:
What do you mean with "running that card like you are"?

What I meant was a 31amp psu running a 2900Pro as opposed to a 22 or 25amp psu with the same card as was the subject of this thread. I was making a comparison to your 500w psu (31a) as opposed to the Antec SP 2.0 500w psu (25a) one of the above poster's has.
Watts without amps may be the difference of your psu having no issues as opposed to the other poster's. You did state this, correct?
"I got mine 2900 Pro yesterday and it works just fine with my Fortron Blue Storm II 500W PSU"
In this case 500w = 500w Not so
No offense intended, just trying to show the poster the differences between your two situations.
October 5, 2007 8:23:38 AM

Forgot to mention this earlier, but it might indeed be something as simple as drivers. My friend just got a laptop with a HD2600 in it and it won't run any of the 3DMark series (03,05,06) but ran the outdated Aquamark3 just fine. With new cards they might have new problems that can be fixed with drivers even if the card is essentially a downclocked 2900XT. Also, what OS are you using?

You could test to see if power is a problem by unplugging any unneeded devices (extra opticals, hard drives or anything else you can think of) and by running your CPU at stock clock speeds. This should reduce the power draw and heat production and can help system stability. If the issue is still there I'd say its less likely (although certainly still possible) that it is the PSU. Thankfully you can get some pretty decent ones for under $100 these days.

-mcg
October 5, 2007 9:12:48 AM

No offense taken.
Thanks for explaining :) 

As to the drivers, i've seen some problems with them myself. nothing big, but when i browse the net with firefox, sometimes black artefacts appear on top of the screen, but they go away as soon as i move my mouse over them. But games run just fine.

I'm confident that the next release of catalyst drivers will fix this issue.

Another thing. Anyone got any info on when a new verson of ATi tray tools may be available. I want to reduce the fan speed when not playing games so the sound of the card isn't that hearable.
October 5, 2007 12:07:24 PM

nukemaster said:
the PSU may have been getting pushed too hard, but its not as bad as people make it out to be....

Ran my old system fine...

P5W DH Deluxe
e6600 @ 2.93
2 Gigs of DDR2
4 hard drives - 2 x 250 and 2 x 320
X1900XT(with some minor OCin)
Audigy 2zs
WinTV PVR 250
DVD-+R(W)

It was still not near overloading or it would have got allot louder. I forget the exact amount of power it took from the wall, but it was still not near full load....

In fact the only reason i replaced it was because of its piss poor efficiency(under 70% at my load). I did not want to waste extra power....

Is the 2900pro not just 19watts(1.6 amps) more then a X1900xt. maybe i was right on the edge....

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354&p...


I'm not saying the Smartpower 2.0 series are bad units for what they are intended, and that is entry level units for PCs with low power demands, however when you step up to a high-power demanding system you can't expect a cheaper unit to perform as well as the better quality units would.
October 5, 2007 1:37:09 PM

One thing no one has explained yet: If it's a PSU issue, why is it that EVERY TIME I play bioshock, it runs great, no problems. It's just every other game I've tried it fizzles. And I guess to be more specific, when I say fizzles, the display goes blank, my monitor registers no signal, and sound freezes and stutters.

I still stand by the opinion that power supplies are vastly overrated. Prior to this card, I had a "gaming system" which ran perfectly, so the psu had no issues even when asked to OC a core2 e6300 to 2.9ghz with an 1800xt also OC'd. And comparing it to the other PSUs with higher amp ratings just shows you how much extra power they all have when mine is able to run everything but the super top end.

Also, I did try unplugging one of my hard drives, my dvd rom, and lowering CPU clock speeds to stock but that didn't help. I'm getting more and more suspicious of the "insufficient PSU" problem when literally every time I run bioshock it is fine. How can that be? If it was PSU, wouldn't it just fail every time 3d apps start? And how can lowering my power draw still not fix the problem? I must have freed up at least another 50-70 watts by dropping 1ghz and taking out 2 components. And it's not like I went from a geforce 4200ti to this card, I was using an 1800xt.

Going to re-examine driver issues.
October 5, 2007 6:33:10 PM

You are still working with watts, that's your problem. We are talking about amps on the 12V rails, it's not the same thing or works the same, to free enough power for that to run you'd basically need to remove nearly every item connected to the 12V rails since the GTX operates with about 13-14 amps or so and the 2900 Pro will most likely consume a bit more power than that, on top of that it would barely have enough power to run properly, so that'll take it's toll on the unit anyway.

And PSUs are the single most important component of your computer, if you believe the very CORE of your system is overrated and that you can just cheap out on it, then you're in for a treat. You might get it running today and for sometime to come or on some instances but keeping such extreme loads on an entry level unit will bring serious consequences for sure.
a c 112 U Graphics card
October 5, 2007 7:18:34 PM

I dont think ryanjm is saying to getting a cheap one is good....more like saying a 1000 watt psu is a waste...

An 8800 GTX uses at MAX 11Amps(132 watts)
The 8800 Ultra uses a little under 14(163 watts)

If it was not for all the extra cables plus the fact some power comes from the board I would clip and get the actual power use....

I can however say of the specs from the TP2.0 450 are accurate my system could run on it. If i get a chance i will break it out and try....i know if it overloads it will just shut down and do no harm...i folding an Antec TP 380 before(too much +12).....

I still do recommend a new PSU for the sheer fact that the SP 450 wastes allot of power due to low efficiency(at common loads...and when the system is off there is a power waste).
October 5, 2007 8:27:14 PM

Well I went out and picked up an Antec EarthWatts 500W power supply. From the guide listed above it has 34A and a ton of power on the 12V rails. After installing it, I have the exact same problem(s).

I will update this if I find a solution. I'll try some driver things for a few minutes and if it's still FUBAR then I'll attempt to find a tech support number for saphire or ati.

I'll still keep the earthwatts because I know it'll be good for future systems too and will lower power consumption. But it looks like my 450watt smartpower 2.0 OWNS YOU ALL. Now if I can just figure out how it's possible to have one f'ing game run perfect and everything else cause a system meltdown, I'll be happy.
October 5, 2007 8:37:01 PM

Was that really necessary? You were the one asking for help. I am an antec fan and even I tend to bash a lot the Earthwatts units, because they are overrated as far as I'm concerned, sure they have high efficiency (And this is what they advertise as their selling point) but if I remember correctly what is stated on the label is their Peak output, not constant (Which is what really matters).

I say if you are so happy with entry level units on high performing systems, then keep using them! Have your PC fried, but don't come here asking why it happened. And in case you didn't know, the HD 2900 Pro takes around the same amount of power as a GTX.
October 5, 2007 9:54:21 PM

Dude I was kidding. I feel some attachment to systems I build and I'm somewhat happy that it wasn't a PSU issue after all the talk about how it's not meant for gaming systems, and here it was doing just fine. I'll refrain from any more comments one way or the other besides dry information reports.
October 5, 2007 10:01:09 PM

ryanjm said:
I just installed the 2900 pro. It works fine in 2d, and the first game I tried was Bioshock, and it looks amazing and runs super smooth at 1280x1024 with everything on high. Then I tried CS: Source. Crashes right after startup. 3dmark05, crashes on startup, GTA: San Andreas, blank screen but sound is running.

Any ideas what the problem could be? My first thought is the dreaded insufficient PSU problem. My system:

e6300 at 2.8ghz
2gig ram
450W antec smartpower 2.0
ATI 2900 pro 512mb
Catalyst 7.9

The only reason I don't think it's the PSU is because Bioshock runs perfectly and that game is definitely straining my system to the max. Some sort of driver issue? Thanks.


3Dmark needs a fix to run with the 29xx cards. You have to update/rename/delete the direcpll.dll file found in the Windows\system32\Futuremark\MSC\ folder to get it to run, otherwise it will hang and crash.

Bioshock is probably working for you because it scales very well and runs amazing well on low-end systems. Not saying your system is crap, just saying it probably not straining your PC as much as you may think.

October 5, 2007 10:03:20 PM

ryanjm said:
I thought my psu has 32 amps? 15 + 17?

Link to review of it: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article260-page1.html
about halfway down it has the diagram of what the amperages are, etc...

I don't even understand what the 12v rail is and how I have two of them. I've got one huge cord that goes into my mobo, a bunch of sata connectors, a pci-e connector, and a bunch of other 4-prong connectors. I don't get how you can divide up the cords to make it so that they use their "share" of power. Is it possible I'm not using the full potential of my PSU because of how the cords are connected? Is the cord going into the mobo using all 300W of the 12v rails?


You don't add the rails together. You need to take the wattage available on the combined +12v rails and divide by 12. You usually get this from the label. Antec makes this a little difficult most of the time.
October 5, 2007 11:22:09 PM

Yeah, I honestly just went out to a local store and bought this 500W psu because I wanted to figure out the problem. Now I have the option to return it but probably not worth the effort.

And Bioshock was kinda chugging on my 1800xt, now it's really smooth with higher detail.

The thing is, it's not like the other games are crashing after a few minutes, they simply die upon startup. And doom3 does not take anything special to run since my 1800xt handled that with ease. It's gotta be some weird driver problem for one game to run fine, ati tool testing to run fine, but many others don't work. I just can't figure out what the software problem could be.

I tried cat 7.10 beta and no luck with that either.
October 5, 2007 11:56:12 PM

I just found a big piece of the puzzle. Apparently there is a specific problem with the 2900xt and 3dmark05 and 06. I applied the fix (just renamed a .dll file) and it worked! So now I can run 3dmark 05, and Bioshock. That leads me to believe there is some random dll file that is not detecting my gpu correctly for these other games. Any ideas appreciated.
October 6, 2007 12:44:54 AM

Just got my 2900pro today, runs everything perfect, bioshock, css, world in conflict, upgraded from x1800xt 256mb, huge difference in bioshock @1280x1024. running with e6420 @3.0ghz 2gb ddr2 800 xms2 evga 680i mobo. 500w antec 12v@17A 12v2@19A, havent had any problem. still running things, but 3dmark06 stays locked up when trying to open. idk if thats the video card or not.
October 6, 2007 1:21:13 AM

ryanjm said:
I just found a big piece of the puzzle. Apparently there is a specific problem with the 2900xt and 3dmark05 and 06. I applied the fix (just renamed a .dll file) and it worked! So now I can run 3dmark 05, and Bioshock. That leads me to believe there is some random dll file that is not detecting my gpu correctly for these other games. Any ideas appreciated.



See my second post up from this one. The problem is limited to 3DMark's DLL file. There is also an updated version of direcppl.dll from Visiontek and Sapphire. Found the Sapphire Link but it's dead now for some reason. Guess everyone was hammering there Server when word got out.
October 6, 2007 7:57:10 PM

Just a quick update: I picked up an Antec Quattro 850W power supply. The same problem remains. Something else is screwing things up for these games...
a c 112 U Graphics card
October 7, 2007 6:24:14 AM

Well it looks like its all down to drivers.....good to see you are making some progress....if i had some spare $$ i would get one just to play with......and for the slightly better tv-out :) 
October 7, 2007 7:49:38 AM

if the atitool test is running fine, your psu should be ok (since that little program stresses ati cards to the max!)

i suggest you try a clean install of windows and use cat. 7.8 drivers since there are some issues with the latest drivers...

good luck! also try without installing CCC and without the wdm driver.
October 8, 2007 7:33:46 PM

Just an update since many of you took time to try and help. After a clean install of windows, it still had the same problem. That basically, to me, meant that it was a bad card. I decided to pick up an 8800gts superclocked because of a great deal at my local retailer and because newegg doesn't have my card in stock anymore, so I figured it would be a long wait at best. I installed it without a problem and it works great. So thanks again for your help and it's unfortunate (for me, killed like 2 days on this) that it took so long to figure out it was a hardware issue.
October 8, 2007 7:50:46 PM

you did RMA the broken one didn't you?
!