Anyone use a UPS?

hastetheday

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Hey guys, just wondering if anyone uses a UPS battery backup. I am looking to buy one. Needed some advice.
My set up is
q6600
evga680i
evga8800gtx (sli in future)
thermaltake 1000watt power supply
lots of other things.

My system doesn't really pull anything over 600 watts, i wanted the 1000 watt for future needs. But do i need a UPS rated for 1000watts or something that is about 600-800 watts for the actual wattage i pull in intense gaming? anyone have any good brands to look for?
 
If you're in the states, Sams Club carries the APC brand of UPS around the 1100 series for about $130.00 because its usually last years model, which makes no difference at all, I've had one for about 3 yrs and wouldn't be without it now.

Its saved me many times from loosing data during a Thunderstorm, one of the best investments computerwise I've made so far and not the first time regreted getting it.
 

DiamondWraith

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I've got a Cyberpower CPS1500AVR. Look no further. I'm also running a quaddy and it'll run this baby for 40-65 minutes(with a 42 inch LCD and 5.1 surround sound) before shutting down(depending on load of course). Costs me about $210 a year ago. No complaints other than it uses 40 watts all the time just when turned on. 100% Silent unless it is charging the battery, in which case a fan on the back spins on and off intermittently. I believe I ordered it from www.provantage.com
 

micoder

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There are quite a few brands available. Even though a UPS may be rated at 1000 watts, the next most important question is how long will it run and at what load. This is a function of the amperage your computer and accessories draw, the size of the battery in the UPS, and the heat sink capability of the output transistors. If you want the very best protection, you need an online UPS. These are significantly more expensive. They run all the time and supply a synthesized sine wave even when there is AC power available. There is not the slightest glitch when you lose power and it cleans the any spikes from the incoming AC. Most UPS models will not do this even though they make such claims. You can tell I run an online UPS and love it.
 

polarity

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One thing to look out for is to check that the computer turns off after a certain time on UPS power. They run long enough for most small outages, but if you have a really long one and the computer keeps running, then it'll kill the batteries. Once lead acid batteries are discharged too far under ~10.4v they won't recharge properly any more. The UPS values the equipment over of the batteries, so it doesn't shut off when they hit the ~10.4v that they can be recharged from. In other words make sure you hook up the serial connection and install the software, and also do a check by turning off the mains and seeing if everything works as expected.
 

cyberjock

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Ok, few quick points:

1. UPSes are a lifesaver.
2. I find it almost impossible to believe your system is using 600w. Get a kill-a-watt. Bet you dollars to doughnuts you aren't even using 450w when playing you favorite game.
3. UPSes are a lifesaver. They save me lots of heartaches when we lose power momentarily. I think of it as paying for something so I'm NOT reinstalling the OS. If it takes me 15 hours to reinstall all of my programs and set everything back up, and the UPS cost me $100, I basically just paid someone about $5/hour to redo my machine, but no headache.
3. IMO the length of time it can run on the battery means nothing to me. I care about what the maximum Watts/KVAR. If you draw 350KVAR and your UPS is rated for 250KVAR, it'll trip on overload when it goes on the battery. Pointless IMO. I want something that'll power my computer long enough for those 1 minute power losses that occur when you least expect it, and will shut down your computer for you if you aren't home. If they made a UPS that was 1000KVAR, but only for 10 minutes, that's all I'd need. UPS software will shut down your computer for you at whatever battery % you choose. I choose 70%, because that gives my system plenty of time to save all it's data and shutdown completely before the battery dies. If I were a business owner, I'd care about longevity. But at home, I just need something to provide enough power to shut the machine down. Are you REALLY gonna want an hour on your computer when you lose power? Instead you're gonna be thinking how much this is gonna suck if you're taking a cold shower tomorrow night.
4. Did I mention UPSes are a lifesaver yet?
 

croc

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I highly doubt that you are pulling that kind of wattage, but we'll let that pass.

A good commercial grade UPS, like some of the Tripp-lites or the APC smart-UPS series are worth their weight in gold if you live in an area with unstable power or frequent electrical storms. They are not cheap. You'd be better with no UPS than a Dick Smith (your equivelant would be I think a Best Buy) cheapie unit, as the wave form will be drastically stair-stepped, and the KVA rating as well as the ability to absorb punishment will be next to nil.

I live in the northern area of Sydney AUS, and our power is highly variable. I probably get an undervoltage / under CPS event two or three times a week, almost invariably followed by an over-voltage event. I have to depend on my PC for 24 x 7 system support, so I do use a good UPS. The model I use is unimportant, as there are several manufacturers of commercial quality UPS's, but the brand most available to me is the APC Smart-UPS line. My 1KVA unit will support my PC and monitor, as well as several other devices, for about 35 minutes of total power outage. The software supplied will do an orderly shutdown of my PC about 5 minutes prior to the UPS batteries running too flat to generate an appropriate sinewave at the required load.

YMMV.
 

StevieD

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A UPS can be a huge lifesaver, my little APC has saved my data life more than once. I like the APC's so well that I have a little unit on every office computer, and a big APC on my warehouse computer so that the staff can continue printing pull tickets and shipping invoices if we loose commercial power for several hours.

A couple added points:

First, make sure that you run ALL power cables, ethernet, cable, telehone and anything with a USB connection to the CPU powered through the surge protection of the UPS. Everything needs to be ran through the unit, no exceptions. That does not mean everything needs to have battery backup, just that the power source is filtered and protected by the UPS.

Secondly a single point of surge protection is better than seperate points of surge protection for each downstream unit. The reasoning is that the amount of surge protection on a given surge protector unit is proportional to number of outlets and the rated value of the items typically installed on the protector. The modern UPS is capable of having a large number of items installed and is known to be routinely handling high value CPU's and expensive monitors, thus the surge protection rating is usually quite large and often far in excess of actual need. The small, off the shelf stand alone surge protectors, especially those discount department store 4-6 outlet surge protectors, usually are quite small relative to the surge protection value and even several of those small surge protectors combined together will not have the same combined surge protection value as a small UPS.

Thirdly, if you were to plug your ethernet and router (as an example) into a small surge protection unit, and then plug the ethernet into the UPS and a major surge were to happen, the insurance companies for the various surge protection units will get into fight as to which company's unit failed to stop the surge. A single surge protector eliminates the potential fighting and denial of claims.

And last but not least, chasing Ghosts is what my technical people do for a daily wage. Having several items operating in a complex system with accessories being powered through seperate outlets (and surge protection units) can cause electrical noise and interference problems. The source of the problem is that the items are no longer sharing a single electrical outlet. Yes most surge protection units have a noise filter installed, but sometimes it is not adaquate. My techs have chased many a Ghost that was ultimately discovered to be related to seperate outlets being used for a complex system with seperate outlets for accessorial items, with the usual culprit being a decaying ground for one of the outlets. A decaying ground may not as large of an issue for a system operated from a single outlet as the entire system will be operating from the same ground value.
 
Got a ups because my power was going off for just a minute or so.... and after i got it the power does not go out often so it only gets small amounts of use....

Either way if you have even the slightest power outs(even if you have not lost an unsaved file/project, it can happen at any time) i recommend getting one for sure....
 

croc

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You bring up a good point, and one that many people overlook. Bldg ground needs to be well maintained, and tested frequently (at least annually) to ensure that systems do not develop ground-loops.

I recall many years ago trying to install a PLCC unit into a bakery. We could not even get it to power up. We started tracing the issue, and found a 15 VAC differential between the system gnd and the bldg gnd. Traced it down to a water conditioner that was installed between the main bldg gnd unit and the outside cold-water pipes using PVC. Installed a proper bldg grnd system and problem solved. Cost? 25k. Cost due to lost man-hours? 1.25 M

So another case of a cheap shortcut costing many-fold in the long run.
 

hastetheday

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Well you guys are right, my pc probably doesn't pull that kinda wattage as of right now. Maybe if i run SLI or something. but anyways. I have a 1000watt power supply, does that mean i have to get a UPS rated for 1000watts or just what my pc pulls? So if i get a UPS that is rated for 800 watts will that be sufficient for my pc?
 

cyberjock

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You need to get an UPS that is for your actual loading on your computer. Do keep in mine that you will want to plug in your monitor or other accessories too and the wattage of those devices has to be taken into account. If you have a Kill-a-Watt meter that's the best way to figure out how much you need. I just plug everything I want on th UPS in 1 power strip temporarily, then I turn on the computer, do some burn-in tests and then add in about 15% for fudge factor. Then I go looking for an UPS that meets or exceeds the number I came up with.

Do note that here in the US UPSes are rated in KVAR(Kilovolt Amps Reactive). It's related to wattage taking into account the reactive load from your devices. Without going into specifics just understand that KVAR up until recently has been your limiting factor for UPSes. This is changing however with the advent of 80%+ efficient power supplies that Pf(Power Factor) correct to 1.0.

If you don't know how much you'll need, I recommend a Kill-A-Watt meter. They come in handy on occasion even if you pay $20 for 1 just for this.
 

KyleSTL

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I have an APC and the best things to look for are capacity (which a number of people have eluded to), disaster savings (lightning, power surges, etc), and warranty (both UPS and connected equipment). Too many people I know have lost everything because of lightning and overvoltage and surges. UPSs are typically a lot better than power-strip-like surge protectors (with the exception of the super cheap ones built by companies you can't pronounce or have never heard of). Correct me if I'm wrong, but APC is the gold standard of the UPS industry.
 
I've used TrippLite and APC; currently using APC. They've saved my data a number of times.
One note on battery discharge; the AGM gel cells used in UPS lead-acid batteries are designed to withstand deeper discharges than standard wet cells (i.e. car batteries). Using a "car battery" in a deep cycle application will kill it in a matter of days or weeks. Still, if at all possible you don't want to go deeper than 80%. Size your UPS and set run time accordingly.
 

Craxbax

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I didn't think anyone smart enough to build or repair a computer would power up without a UPS adequate to carry his system load! that said I remember when my GF was buying her 300 w Brisbane powered Acer box... the Best Buy salessmuck telling her that she was going to ruin her new computer unless she bought a the top of the line (1500+w or more) unit. He couldn't explain why she needed it (just that he had one for all of his stuff 'cause he just knew what he was talking about) but couldn't convince him otherwise!

ps: Note to self: YA CAN'T FIX STUPID! (Ron White)
 

cyberjock

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Deep cycle applications aren't as big of a threat to UPS batteries as you might think. The deep cycle problem for consumers really doesn't give you any insight for you(as a comsumer I mean). There's several reasons why this is true. The biggest reason is something called cell reversal. This is when multiple cells in a battery are in series, and 1 cell's capacity is lower than the rest. When the battery is drained this cell's voltage drops to the point where it's a load on the battery instead of a power source. Generally your cell's voltage reverses entirely. This is bad as your cell's are now charging the cell.

Anyway, the UPS has certain low voltage limits preprogrammed into the UPS to prevent this from happening. They'll trip the battery off when the voltage hits some predetermined limit to ensure you don't damage your battery. Fortunately the capacity posted on the box takes this effect into consideration. They obviously can't try to sell you a UPS that has a very high tripping voltage to protect their battery. What would be the point in buying a 10,000W UPS if it can only power your 400w computer for 15 seconds? Consumers would be VERY unhappy. Although this effect you mentioned above is true, as a consumer buying a 1000w lead-acid battery based UPS and a 1000w gel based battery based UPS does not matter. They will both provide approximately their rated value. I will say that lead acid batteries don't store very well discharged as compared to gel cell. But, you still don't want to leave a gel cell sitting around discharged either. This isn't really a problem with UPS batteries because it'll charge if the outlet has power.

Quote from http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/BatterySelection.aspx
What are the advantages and disadvantages of gel, AGM, and flooded lead acid deep cycle?
Generally, gel and AGM batteries have about 20% less capacity, cost about two times more, and have a shorter cycle life than comparable flooded lead acid batteries. However, Gel and AGM batteries do not need watering, are safer (no acid spilling out), can be placed in a variety of positions, have a slower self-discharge characteristic, and are more efficient in charging and discharging than flooded batteries (see table below). Gel batteries are more suitable for deep cycling applications whereas AGM batteries are more for light cycling and engine-starting applications.

Hope this helps :).