Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Upgrade the Proc? Or up its surroundings?

Last response: in Systems
Share
September 18, 2007 7:34:26 PM

Hey Everyone!

I'm not new to these forums or it's posters by any means, ive based most of my purchases off the opinions found here. So thanks for the last few years of input!

Anyways, I make my first post because I can not find a solid answer anywhere, including the post searches I did here.

Ok, I'm currently looking at upgrading my system for the 4th quarter and 1st of 08 (WAR online). Currently I have an AMD 3200 Venice (stock) 1gig of XMS (ddr400) and a BFG 8800gts. All on a ASUS A8n Sli-Premium mobo.

Well...I do really know what I should upgrade to, or if it's even needed. I've got about $200 to spend.

I was looking at another gig of XMS and a new proc. The opetron 165 or x2 4200.

What do you guys think? Am I gonna see a big difference from the 3200 to a 165 or 4200? Im primarily a 1app intense user (gaming) But while im gaming I have a voip in the background as well as a browser and itunes. (usually)

Any input will be greatly appreciated, Thanks everyone,

Defrostu


MODER: if this is a repeat post, please delete it. (just point me in the right direction)
September 18, 2007 7:47:02 PM

Good idea, however even though you can OC the Opteron 165 is not equivalent to the X2 4200 (as far as I know), unless you can find an opteron around the same price/perf ratio as the s939 Athlon X2s, I say go for the X2 and the extra gig.

BTW games are becoming more and more multithreaded, so it's not really all that fair to say that they are intense singlethreaded apps anymore, since they take advantage of the extra cores.
September 18, 2007 7:47:57 PM

I am in a similar situation. My rig: 3500 Manchester 1gb XMS 7600GT.

Personally I have asked everyone for Xmas to give me newegg gift cards.

For about $300 you can get Gigabyte P35 DS3R & X2 5200+ & 2GB ddr2 800. Also if you are waiting untill Dec/Jan to upgrade prices might drop with all the new tech coming out. Plus I would look heavy into getting a motherboard that will support the Phenom.
Related resources
September 18, 2007 7:51:30 PM

For about $30 less you could get the DS3L motherboard. Only draw back that I know of is no RAID only 4 sata (vs 8 sata in DS3R). Also the onboard sound is not as good.
September 18, 2007 8:07:24 PM

Also the capacitors are not as good...
September 18, 2007 8:15:18 PM

nickc07 said:
I am in a similar situation. My rig: 3500 Manchester 1gb XMS 7600GT.

Personally I have asked everyone for Xmas to give me newegg gift cards.

For about $300 you can get Gigabyte P35 DS3R & X2 5200+ & 2GB ddr2 800. Also if you are waiting untill Dec/Jan to upgrade prices might drop with all the new tech coming out. Plus I would look heavy into getting a motherboard that will support the Phenom.


BTW... The GA-P35-DS3R only supports LGA775 INTEL CPUs, not AM2 AMD CPUs, so that'd be a horrible way to upgrade, since you won't be able to even make the CPU work. Anyway, from the looks of it, the new tech (Barcelona/Penryn) won't yield a radical performance improvement anyway, if you have the money and want a faster PC, today is as good as any day in the upcoming months to upgrade/buy a new PC. Only things to look forward to are the X38 chipset and the HD2900 Pro/8700GTS, however I would get myself just a P35 and a 8800GTS 320 if I had the need to upgrade.
September 18, 2007 8:21:17 PM

nickc07 said:
I am in a similar situation. My rig: 3500 Manchester 1gb XMS 7600GT.

Personally I have asked everyone for Xmas to give me newegg gift cards.

For about $300 you can get Gigabyte P35 DS3R & X2 5200+ & 2GB ddr2 800. Also if you are waiting untill Dec/Jan to upgrade prices might drop with all the new tech coming out. Plus I would look heavy into getting a motherboard that will support the Phenom.


you could, but then you'd have a hard time fitting the proc into the mobo. GA8-P35-DS3R is for intel, socked 775. I know, I have one with a E6850 humming in it....
September 18, 2007 9:23:37 PM

nickc07 said:
I am in a similar situation. My rig: 3500 Manchester 1gb XMS 7600GT.

Personally I have asked everyone for Xmas to give me newegg gift cards.

For about $300 you can get Gigabyte P35 DS3R & X2 5200+ & 2GB ddr2 800. Also if you are waiting untill Dec/Jan to upgrade prices might drop with all the new tech coming out. Plus I would look heavy into getting a motherboard that will support the Phenom.


LOL WOW Long day at work.

Anyways my point was for about 200-300 you can upgrade to a dual core, new mobo, and 2GB pc6400.
September 18, 2007 9:26:34 PM

But then again for $130-160 he could also upgrade and get almost the same performance. The only thing is that the build would no longer have any upgrade path, next time he needs more power it's time to rebuild again.
September 18, 2007 10:28:12 PM

Quote:
But then again for $130-160 he could also upgrade and get almost the same performance. The only thing is that the build would no longer have any upgrade path, next time he needs more power it's time to rebuild again.


That's the thought process I was having. Thanks to all for the replies!!!

Frost
September 18, 2007 11:53:58 PM

If it were me ...

I wouldn't upgrade. Your money is being invested in two dead technologies - DDR RAM and socket 939 processors. Trying to improve the core of your current system isn't cost effective, and if you improve the core of your current system you lose an opportunity to make a 'doodle box'.

Look at it this way: You can spend between $80.00 and $100.00 to upgrade to an AMD dual core running at 2.2Ghz (Opteron 165, 175, X2 4200+, depending on what you buy). Maybe you have room to overclock, maybe not. You can also spend another $45.00 to get another 1Gb (2 x 512Mb) of DDR.

Thats only $125.00 to $150.00, but the minute it's installed you're on the path to replacing it - I doubt that a 2.2Ghz AMD dual core is gonna look very attractive in the summer of 2008.

More importantly, you still only have one computer.

Or, you could replace your motherboard, CPU and RAM. 2Gb (2 x 1Gb) of DDR2-800 can be grabbed for as low as $65.00 (A-Data w/o heat spreaders), and if you aren't planning on doing aggressive overclocking it will be fine. This is only $20.00 more than your 1Gb of DDR. MSI, Jetway, ASUS, Gigabyte, Foxconn, BioStar and EliteGroup all make NVidia 6100 series non-SLI motherboards with built-in video for less than $60.00 (always get the built-in video, so you can use them as servers and Linux boxes later). They aren't going to be amazing at overclocking, but I use these boards often when I'm building systems for people who are poor - they work fine. Do a little research and you'll find one that meets your needs. Finally, you can add an AM2 that is at least 2.5Ghz for $109.00. A 2.6Ghz is about $115.00. In fact, the OEM 2.8Ghz 5400+ is only $129.00.

For $210.00 to $250.00 you have faster parts that won't be outdated as fast as your 939/DDR upgrades. But more importantly, you also have an old motherboard, CPU and RAM that can be built into a doodle-box. Find a hard drive and a cheapo video card and you have a second computer thats great for running Linux or Windows XP.

And if you're really into framerates online I guarantee that using your main computer only for the game, and allowing your second computer to become the voip / tunes computer will ensure that you don't have a bunch of background crap slowing down your main box (especially when your VOIP decides to take a dive).

--------------------------------

From one perspective my suggestion may seem impractical - you are spending another $100.00 for 400-600Mhz. But I hate seeing people invest money into a marginal upgrade for a perfectly good older computer. Just leave the old computer alone. Sure, it's a nice ASUS SLI motherboard, but you weren't really thinking about putting another 8800 GTS into it, were you? With my option you have a new computer that can last you a year or more, and when you decide to replace it it's perfect for converting into your next doodle-box.

September 19, 2007 4:34:21 PM

damn bro, what an awesome reply....thanks alot!

I got some thinking to do...
September 19, 2007 5:35:01 PM

Seanreisk said:
They aren't going to be amazing at overclocking, but I use these boards often when I'm building systems for people who are poor - they work fine.


Highly uncool comment. "Limited budget" would have sufficed.

I agree, though, upgrading to a new MB/CPU/MEM combo is the only way to go. I just made my last upgrade for my current system before I run 'er til she's no longer useful. Don't throw any more money into a deadend system.
September 19, 2007 9:04:36 PM

if you are going to throw any money on a new AMD system, then do yourself a favor and don't put money on another "dead" technology as they say. Since we are supposed to see HT3.0, AM2+, AM3, and new chips also.

My point is, it isn't anymore practical to spend on a current build that is nearly outdated than to spend on a complete new rig that is on the verge of being outdated too.
September 19, 2007 9:27:24 PM

Quote:
Well... I've got about $200 to spend. I was looking at another gig of XMS and a new proc.

money well spent my friend......a matching stick of RAM and the 6000+ can be had with your budget and will really wake that PC up

September 19, 2007 11:04:08 PM

maddog he is running s939 not am2
September 20, 2007 12:47:37 AM

nickc07 said:
maddog he is running s939 not am2

oops, my bad
September 20, 2007 1:35:00 AM

emp said:
if you are going to throw any money on a new AMD system, then do yourself a favor and don't put money on another "dead" technology as they say. Since we are supposed to see HT3.0, AM2+, AM3, and new chips also.

My point is, it isn't anymore practical to spend on a current build that is nearly outdated than to spend on a complete new rig that is on the verge of being outdated too.


I knew this would come up.

I am not an AMD fanboy. I have 6 computers and only one of them is running an AMD processor. But even though I use a lot of Intel processors I have nothing against AMD. They're a solid processor at a great price.

I agree that the AM2 systems are reaching their climax, but they're still hard workers. More importantly they are riding the sweet spot of horsepower for price. If he had $500.00 to spend I'd push him to a Core 2 or maybe even a Q6600, but his stated budget is ~$200.00. If you don't have a lot of money and you're looking to rebuild on a tight budget the AMD processors are hard to beat.

Really, the AMDs are dirt cheap. Yes, you can get Intel Core 2 processors in the same price range ($75.00 for an E2140, $127.00 for an E4400), and these processors will also work great, but to get the most out of these inexpensive Intel processors you need to overclock, and if you're going to overclock you need to invest more in the quality of the components.

I don't like overclocking Core 2s on the P945 chipset - I don't really like running Core 2s on the P945. The cheapest P965 chipset motherboard is $75.00, and I'm not sure what BIOS options a motherboard that cheap has. If you're planning on overclocking, you should consider dropping at least $100.00 into the motherboard, and spending money for an aftermarket fan is a good idea also. Memory with heatspreaders doesn't hurt.

All of this is pushing him into the $300.00+ range. $300.00 is still cheap, but you're pushing 50% past his original budget. You can always improve a system for a few dollars more, but each feature creep will drive the price a little higher.

He could build with Intel, but I don't think it would be as easy to get the same amount of oomph. I could be wrong. If someone has experience in building and overclocking Intel CPUs with the inexpensive motherboards, speak up. But for $250.00 he can get the AMD components that should last him more than a year and he doesn't have to overclock. More importantly, if he rebuilds with new components he gets a little something back - he gets to keep his old motherboard, memory and CPU, and with a little frugal scavenging he can build an extra computer.

For a comparison of the inexpensive Intel's vs. the inexpensive AMDs, take a crawl the Tom's CPU charts. Unfortunately, the current CPU charts don't include the newer E2140s.
September 20, 2007 2:49:25 AM

I think you really need to upgrade the Mobo.
DDR400 will really be holding that system back.

You can quibble about Intel vs AMD but for both you can get a

Mobo, Processor, and 2Gb of DDR2 of RAM for less than $100 for each of the components and the system will work much better.

For the Intel Setup, you would need to be willing to OC since the lower priced Intel chips are not great at stock but will outperform the AMDs when both are OC'd.

So the AMD vs Intel comes down to Brand Loyalty and/or Willingness to OC.
September 20, 2007 4:33:57 AM

emp said:
But then again for $130-160 he could also upgrade and get almost the same performance. The only thing is that the build would no longer have any upgrade path, next time he needs more power it's time to rebuild again.


By the time he needs to upgrade again, his board would certainly (Intel 775) or probably (AMD AM2+) need to be upgraded as well. I say put in the X2 4200+ and another gig or two of RAM and have a go at it for another year or two. I'm running an X2 4200+ Manchester with 4 GB DDR-400 and it runs very nicely.

I saw you sig: yes, I too am a 64-bit OS advocate. Now that I have all 64-bit hardware, I don't run any 32-bit OSes any more. The extra performance as well as the needed extra RAM addressability on the desktop is certainly needed. This may not be true in Windows, but I've not run into any driver or program trouble in going from 32 -> 64 bits so it would be dumb for me not to use an x86_64 OS. But even on the Windows XP x86_64 machine that I worked on over the summer (C2D E6700, Intel BadAxe II mobo, 8 GB RAM) everything worked just fine, even though there were virtually no 64-bit versions of the programs I needed save for MATLAB. So I'm guessing that the 32 -> 64 transition is either overblown as to difficulty or people are having trouble getting drivers for some older/less-common pieces of hardware in Windows.
September 20, 2007 10:49:02 AM

Thank you... finally someone sees my point.
!