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New build crashes in 3D.... Help pleas...

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September 22, 2007 11:06:21 AM

Techies....

First I want to thank anyone who took the time to look here and think about this problem that is past my fixing...

I built this new PC for my father and it runs great; but when I run anything that uses DirectX or OpenGL (3D) the PC will randomly HARD crash. What I mean by a hard crash is no BSOD just frozen screen. I once got a BSOD with 0x000 once and one other time I got "IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL" but no more info listed on the screen....

Keep in mind that the PC will run w/o any problems for 2 days w/o crashing with random none game program usage.

Please don't assume I tried something suggest it if you are not sure if I have!!


*My biggest problem in diagnosing this problem is that this will also happen when I take out the 2600XT and run Quake (PC vs PC) wars using just the on board video card. :pt1cable: 

*Vista Memory DIAG no errors. (only let it run for 15 minutes at 45% I stopped it)

*Installed VISTA 32 when the ASUS board had BIOS version 502, not the 1101... (BIOS is now updated)

*I have tried the HIS ATI drivers still crashes but seems to take much longer 10-45 minutes.
Medal of Honor for some odd reason crashed to the desktop vs the whole system, could have been a game crash this time?? But still hard locks the system.

*ATI Drivers seem to crash the system faster but not always 7-25 minutes.

*Vista did suggest I download and install ATK110 ACPI. But to my best knowledge it is installed and does show up in device manager.

*Nothing is over clocked.

*M$ Vista 32bit fully updated

Here is everything plugged into this system....

Memory 2Gx2 PATRIOT DII667 PSD24G667K
Motherboard ASUS M2A-VM HDMI AMD 690G AM2
HD 160G HITC 7K 8M SATA2 0Y30006
CPU AMD X2 6000 3.0G AM2
VGA HIS H260XTF256DDN-R 2600XT 256M
DVD BURN PHILIPS SPD2513BD SATA 20X
CARD RD LINKSKEY LKA-CR15BW R
CASE APEVIA X-QPACK2-NW-BK/500

More about : build crashes pleas

September 22, 2007 12:27:45 PM

I'd disable any performance-enhancing settings in bios. I used to have an am2 rig that crashed randomly like a day or two later while running 24/7. It took me a week or so to dig up the asus forums to find any relevant info. Some had the same random crashes at stock. It turned out the bios settings weren't stable at stock:

http://akhilles.ifastnet.com/m2n32sli/index.html

I make no guarantee it will work for you.
September 22, 2007 12:47:42 PM

akhilles said:
I'd disable any performance-enhancing settings in bios. I used to have an am2 rig that crashed randomly like a day or two later while running 24/7. It took me a week or so to dig up the asus forums to find any relevant info. Some had the same random crashes at stock. It turned out the bios settings weren't stable at stock:

http://akhilles.ifastnet.com/m2n32sli/index.html

I make no guarantee it will work for you.



Thank you for the reply, I looked at the page your sent and found a few things I could try,
*disabling Cool and Quiet
*forcing the voltage to my ram's specs and not use auto...

But I don't think those will work, I will keep this thread updated... I'm currently at work till 6pm.

Info for people trying to help me!!
I normally turn off ALL unused features in the BIOS, for example...


Printer port,
Firewire,
IDE controller.

Related resources
September 22, 2007 1:58:58 PM

Are you sure that some other CPU intensive test which does not use 3D will not also crash the system? Try running Orthos or Prime 95 and see if same thing happens. Your system could simply be overheating.

Since you are not overclocking the likely cause of overheating would be incorrect installation of the heat sink/fan. This is very common BTW. Check your temps with a temp reporting utility such as speedfan or coretemp.

The symptoms of overheating BTW are system crashes after a period of heavy CPU utilization. 3D gaming may be the only heavy test you have tried. It could have nothing to do with video at all in other words and since this has happened with different video cards and different drivers I am inclined to think it is not a video problem.

Just a thought.

I'd also try running memtest86. edit: ahh, just saw you tried the vista memory diagnostic, perhaps let it run all the way through. 15 mins should have been enough but best to be thorough.

All these utilities and instructions for using them are easy to find if you search Google by their names.
September 22, 2007 3:58:40 PM

notherdude said:
Are you sure that some other CPU intensive test which does not use 3D will not also crash the system? Try running Orthos or Prime 95 and see if same thing happens. Your system could simply be overheating.

Since you are not overclocking the likely cause of overheating would be incorrect installation of the heat sink/fan. This is very common BTW. Check your temps with a temp reporting utility such as speedfan or coretemp.

The symptoms of overheating BTW are system crashes after a period of heavy CPU utilization. 3D gaming may be the only heavy test you have tried. It could have nothing to do with video at all in other words and since this has happened with different video cards and different drivers I am inclined to think it is not a video problem.

Just a thought.

I'd also try running memtest86. edit: ahh, just saw you tried the vista memory diagnostic, perhaps let it run all the way through. 15 mins should have been enough but best to be thorough.

All these utilities and instructions for using them are easy to find if you search Google by their names.



* I didn't think to run Prime 95, that is something I will run when I get home, and a FULL memory DIAG.
* AMD 6000+ x2 is 34c IDLE and 47c on a nearly full load. I don't think it's a CPU temp problem..
September 22, 2007 6:44:40 PM

Yea, those temps seem fairly normal. I'd still try all that stuff just to be sure we can rule out something more systemic than video. Then take it from there. If you can get through a DUAL Prime 95 test for an extended period that would prolly cinch that.

Maybe some trace of video driver is doing this. Perhaps a fresh Windows install on a fresh drive/partition and then use the onboard video only before messing with the Radeon?

As one last resort maybe do an XP install and see if you have same problem there.
September 22, 2007 7:44:11 PM

See if you have the BIOS option to disable the onboard graphics. (It might also be a jumper setting).

Test the video card with ATI Tool
September 22, 2007 8:45:42 PM

IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL points to an error in either the RAM, or the CPU's cache.

Just run Prime95 and see what happens. (I prefer <a href="http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/orthos_exe_20060420.cab">Orthos</a>, as it supports multiple cores, I'm unsure if the normal P95 will do this. Someone correct me?)

I hope you get everything working!
September 22, 2007 9:00:43 PM

jedimasterben said:
IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL points to an error in either the RAM, or the CPU's cache.

Just run Prime95 and see what happens. (I prefer <a href="http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/orthos_exe_20060420.cab">Orthos</a>, as it supports multiple cores, I'm unsure if the normal P95 will do this. Someone correct me?)

I hope you get everything working!


Prime will do dual but last I checked you needed to set up the dual option manually, easy enough to search on Google, but if Orthos will do it effortlessly then by all means use it.
September 22, 2007 9:21:49 PM

i get that same message when i try to run my A64 3500 at 2.75 even when i put the volts at 1.55 dosn't help.
September 22, 2007 9:42:52 PM

Remove 2 gigs of ram.. try it with 2gb ram. I had the same problem and it worked for me.
September 22, 2007 11:38:34 PM

notherdude said:
Prime will do dual but last I checked you needed to set up the dual option manually, easy enough to search on Google, but if Orthos will do it effortlessly then by all means use it.





Prime\Orthos is getting errors. But not crashing the PC. It only appears to be getting errors when I stress the CPU and RAM.... It's telling me to look at stress.txt for more info but I am not finding that file... So, is it the ram....

I will run a Memory DIAG in a few minutes.....
September 23, 2007 1:24:39 AM

All I can tell you is that if Prime and Orthos are getting errors there is probably a problem with your system deeper than 3d and in all probability this problem was behind the 3d crashing you were getting.

So for the time being forget about looking for video card problems and try to fix this problem

CPU or RAM? If CPU the problem is almost always overheating as there is not much else that can go wrong with a CPU. There are of course rare exceptions but before you look into really oddball stuff you should address the obvious.

At this point I would explore the RAM test and check to make sure your RAM is properly configured in the BIOS. Be sure the voltage, bus speed, and the timings are set according to the mfg specs.

If you get RAM errors try taking one stick out until you determine if one of them alone is causing errors.

If that fails I would re-seat the heat sink/fan on general principles. This sounds too much like an overheating problem! even though your temps appear normal I would not hesitate to take it off, re-apply thermal paste carefully in accordance to the instructions, and then make darn sure the heat sink is lying perfectly flat, fully in contact with CPU and that the fan is spinning. I would turn off 'cool and quiet' for the time being.
September 23, 2007 2:10:12 AM

I ran the VISTA memory test on BASIC and Extended (3 passes) and not one error.
But Orthos is still getting an error about 4-8 seconds into the test.

CPU is not over heating. doesn't get hotter than 55c unless I make it sit on 100% usage.

Ram is set manually to 667MHZ and voltage 1.9volts.

And today I received my 2nd BSOD error of "IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL" caused by Orthos.


Suggestions are to take out the CPU and Heat sink and make sure they are seated correctly... Anything else comes to mind, let me know...

Thanks to all who have helped me so far....
September 23, 2007 2:25:54 AM

did you try removing half the ram? seriously.
September 23, 2007 2:35:08 AM

See if you have the BIOS option to disable the onboard graphics. All graphics memory is shared with system memory.
September 23, 2007 4:16:06 AM

I realize your temps do not indicate overheating but the symptoms do. Failure under stress is usually heat. It could be the CPU, or maybe a heatsink on the chipset is not all the way down. Ordinarily you would leave well enough alone if the temps look good but at this point it looks like it's worth a try.

Other possibility is simply a faulty motherboard.

Will Orthos fail on CPU test only or is it still failing on the blend only?



September 23, 2007 4:37:57 AM

I agree I would first try removing 2 gigs of memory and run the test over. If you still get the Error try switching out sticks of memory and run test again. With running 32bit Vista you are not able to use the full 4gigs any how. Secondly Make 100% sure you have the onboard video DISABLED in the bios. I built a computer for a client and accidentally left it on and he started having problems with it can't remember the exact details on the problem i will try to contact him tomm and find out. Also i would not disable your IDE controller it doesn't hurt to leave controllers like that on. It doesn't take away from any performance. Also when you said you manually set the memory does that mean timings too? Or just manually set speed and power?
September 23, 2007 5:52:17 AM

Have you tried running the Orthos Ram and CPU tests seperately. Test the Ram, then test the CPU. Don't use the blend on Orthos. Sometimes resetting the Cmos will fix things, it did for me because I have to RMA my Ram once and when you install newer Ram of the same brand/make your bios reads the serial numbers and sometimes your mobo for some reason doesn't like that so you just reset Cmos. All reviewers of Ram, CPU's mobo's always reset Cmos when dealing with multiple PC components.
September 23, 2007 11:24:25 AM

notherdude said:
I realize your temps do not indicate overheating but the symptoms do. Failure under stress is usually heat. It could be the CPU, or maybe a heatsink on the chipset is not all the way down. Ordinarily you would leave well enough alone if the temps look good but at this point it looks like it's worth a try.

Other possibility is simply a faulty motherboard.

Will Orthos fail on CPU test only or is it still failing on the blend only?



Ok, I took out the RAM And CPU and reseated them. Cleared the BIOS and ran on Default settings...

Orthos crashed within 8 seconds when I ran the BLENED test. But will not crash when I run just the CPU stress test.

I tried running the tests with one stick of (2GB) ram but still have the same problem.

When I said I set up the ram manually, means that I set the voltage at the default for these sticks 1.8 volts (tried 1.9 also). I also tried setting the speed to AUTO mhz and manually 667 mhz. There are no settings for timings. I ran both the VISTA memDIAG and goldMEMORY test that is on my Ubuntu liveCD after I did everything I mentioned above and NOT one error.

I'm starting to think this is a faulty motherboard, if so, it will be my 1st one....

ANY OTHER SUGGESTION?!?!?!?!!?!?
I haven't tried under clocking the memory or CPU yet... I shouldn't have to.. but I might try to see if it will stable things out.
September 23, 2007 11:55:29 AM

Have you checked to see if you Ram is compatable with you mobo? Its either your Ram and/or your mobo.
September 23, 2007 11:59:25 AM

did you try the other stick of RAM? Maybe the one you pulled out is good and the one in the slot is bad.
September 23, 2007 12:45:48 PM

systemlord said:
Have you checked to see if you Ram is compatible with you mobo? Its either your Ram and/or your mobo.



Yes. Check that. I tried to check ASUS site for you but couldn't find a memory compatibility section. If you have access to another brand of RAM, anything ddr2, try it and use 1 stick only.

You have odd symptoms here, to state the obvious. So I think we are all reaching at this point. CPU tests pass, CPU temps good, memory tests pass, but orthos fails on the blend test and you get BSOD in 3d games.

Here are a couple of ideas:

1. Consult ASUS support. They have a help forum of some sort at their site. I have never used it but I saw it there last night. There could be some odd BIOS setting we have overlooked. If this does not help and all other efforts have failed . .

2. Rebuild the system, completely, out of the case, bare bones. Keyboard, CPU, MOBO, power, on board video or Radeon, whichever you feel is most reliable. I'd think on-board would be the safer and simpler option. Leave EVERYTHING else out. In this process I would re seat the heat sink, check over the mobo for any signs of damage, and check the other heat sinks on the board to see if they appear tight and flush. Try a testing program from off of a CD. If this isn't possible do a fresh windows install on a different hard drive.

Also in this process switch in as many new /different components as possible, such as a different RAM, new RAM slot, PSU, CPU, etc. and see if you can narrow down whats causing this. I'd also try a different power outlet.

3. If all of the above fails and no one has offered any new advice then RMA that motherboard while you are still in the RMA period and hope it was just defective.
September 23, 2007 12:56:17 PM

notherdude said:
Yes. Check that. I tried to check ASUS site for you but couldn't find a memory compatibility section. If you have access to another brand of RAM, anything ddr2, try it and use 1 stick only.

You have odd symptoms here, to state the obvious. So I think we are all reaching at this point. CPU tests pass, CPU temps good, memory tests pass, but orthos fails on the blend test and you get BSOD in 3d games.

Here are a couple of ideas:

1. Consult ASUS support. They have a help forum of some sort at their site. I have never used it but I saw it there last night. There could be some odd BIOS setting we have overlooked. If this does not help and all other efforts have failed . .

2. Rebuild the system, completely, out of the case, bare bones. Keyboard, CPU, MOBO, power, on board video or Radeon, whichever you feel is most reliable. I'd think on-board would be the safer and simpler option. Leave EVERYTHING else out. In this process I would re seat the heat sink, check over the mobo for any signs of damage, and check the other heat sinks on the board to see if they appear tight and flush. Try a testing program from off of a CD. If this isn't possible do a fresh windows install on a different hard drive.

Also in this process switch in as many new /different components as possible, such as a different RAM, new RAM slot, PSU, CPU, etc. and see if you can narrow down whats causing this. I'd also try a different power outlet.

3. If all of the above fails and no one has offered any new advice then RMA that motherboard while you are still in the RMA period and hope it was just defective.




Thank you for your time again!! I did try both sticks one at a time and in dif. memory slots. (old EPOX board I had had 3 of 4 working slots).

This build doesn't have much in it, VGA, 2 sticks of ram, CPU, HDD, DVD and USB card reader. Everything else is on board. And I already tried everything unplugged and still no luck... I don't like not being able to solve a problem... . It is nerve recking!!!

I have one stick of 512MB corsair I will try when I get home today as a last resort then call ASUS and I am guessing it will be RMAed sometime this Monday (1 week after getting everything!!)
September 23, 2007 1:09:29 PM

Do you have all Vista updates as well? There is some patch for memory problems - I ran it but my problem was more the BIOS of my board, but it couldn't hurt to install it if you haven't.

Here is link on Microsoft site:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

gl
September 23, 2007 1:30:02 PM

Here is a quicky!
Some board and graphics card combos just don't work together...
Can you try using an nvidia card?
I know this sounds weird but I actually had this same crashing on a ECS board with a Sapphire card...put in an nvidia 7600gt and it all went away!JOY!
September 23, 2007 1:31:23 PM

GenericName said:
Do you have all Vista updates as well? There is some patch for memory problems - I ran it but my problem was more the BIOS of my board, but it couldn't hurt to install it if you haven't.

Here is link on Microsoft site:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

gl



Thank you, but correct me if I am wrong, isn't that fix for VISTA if you are trying to INSTALL vista?

Keep in mind that I am having the same problem even if I use just 2GB of ram...

Thank you
September 23, 2007 1:38:43 PM

Probably couldn't hurt - in fact the memory problems would keep happening after the install:

STOP 0x0000000A (parameter1, parameter2, parameter3, parameter4)
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

Sounds similar to your problem
September 24, 2007 9:30:50 PM

UPDATE

RMAed the board with newegg.. Very easy... almost too easy and free overnight shipping...

2nd. For **** and giggles I moved one of my sticks to the 3rd slot so I don't have dual channel anymore and now Orthos has been running with out errors for 8 minutes!! I have never gone past 13 seconds!! It also would do the same thing with just one stick in. Error out after 4-15 seconds.....


I will update this when I get the New Motherboard... Thanks again to everyone who took the time to help me with this!!!
September 24, 2007 11:17:18 PM

ALERT: If you have not sent the board back yet do this; put a tiny mark on it somewhere so that when you get the return you are certain they did not simply send you the old one back. I'm not saying Newegg does this but some ppl seem to think some sellers will do this, if they do their own test and think the board is ok. END ALERT

So you now have 2 sticks in but just not in dual channel? And it's working? Odd. Did you ever test one stick in one of the known good slots, such as one of the 2 you are using now?

And did you ever try a different brand/model of RAM? I forget.

Sounds like it was motherboard then, we hope anyway:p , nothing more frustrating then a subtle problem like that! Sometimes you are sure you have it and then it returns.

But I'd still check on RAM compatibility for that MOBO just in case, if you still have this problem with new board that's what I'd be looking at.

Ah, the perils of building your own.
September 26, 2007 1:21:33 PM

notherdude said:
ALERT: If you have not sent the board back yet do this; put a tiny mark on it somewhere so that when you get the return you are certain they did not simply send you the old one back. I'm not saying Newegg does this but some ppl seem to think some sellers will do this, if they do their own test and think the board is ok. END ALERT

So you now have 2 sticks in but just not in dual channel? And it's working? Odd. Did you ever test one stick in one of the known good slots, such as one of the 2 you are using now?

And did you ever try a different brand/model of RAM? I forget.

Sounds like it was motherboard then, we hope anyway:p , nothing more frustrating then a subtle problem like that! Sometimes you are sure you have it and then it returns.

But I'd still check on RAM compatibility for that MOBO just in case, if you still have this problem with new board that's what I'd be looking at.

Ah, the perils of building your own.



Thanks for the suggestion of marking the old mobo!!! That is something I use to do, but newegg let me buy a new one with free overnight shipping, and e-mailed me a UPS print out sticker for the old one.... I will put the old mobo into the box the new one comes in.... Thanks for looking out..

Yes, I did try one stick at a time but always in the 1st slot. Now I have them in slot 1,3 (not 1,2 = DUEL)
Prime ran for 3 days straight, till a windows updated, then forced it to reboot.....

Thanks again notherdude




September 27, 2007 11:56:29 PM

cool, let us know how the new board works out in dual channel then, and good luck.
!