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Graphics Cards ATI FINALLY BEATING NVIDIA ??

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  • ATI
  • Nvidia
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Last response: in Graphics Cards
October 12, 2007 3:29:09 PM


My .... My ... Why don't I see any posts about the new ATI 2950 ?? Fully Directx 10.1 capable .... low priced ... blowing nvidia 8800's away .... need I go on ? Release date november ! Advanced SLI capable ! My bank card is now burning a hole in my wallet ----- :bounce:  I knew if we waited a bit the video wars would pay off . Come on TH ..... put some specs and reviews on their possibilities here !

More about : graphics cards ati finally beating nvidia

October 12, 2007 4:15:48 PM

Maybe because they're not beating the 8800 GTX so it's not really news...
October 12, 2007 4:16:19 PM

Don't believe the hype !!

ATI is not even in the game anymore, and their drivers aren't much better.

IF, there is any truth behind this one very small victory for ATi, then it will be short lived.
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October 12, 2007 4:42:25 PM

What? The 2950 has been released and there are benchmarks? Someone show me the way!
October 12, 2007 4:54:15 PM

No it hasnt been released, theres just alot of speculultion going around.

Both the 8800GTs and 2950s are looking good if the rumours are to belived, with low power consumption (or better overclockability in my book), competitive pricing and perfromce in between the 8800GTS and GTX. Perfect!

But they are rumours...

Hopefully they will be around £120 so I can afford one.
October 12, 2007 5:18:08 PM

BFG..... I know it's hard but try not to be a fanboy. ATI not in the game, are you kidding me? And their drivers aren't much better than what?
October 12, 2007 5:39:04 PM

the HD2950s will beat the 8800gtx by alot i am getting 1 ill never buy any nvidia crap i removed all nvidia stuff from my pc
October 12, 2007 6:20:59 PM

bfg72 said:
Don't believe the hype !!

I agree.

Just look at the hype with the 2900xt before it cam out!

Don't get me wrong; I like the 2900xt, especially placed against 8800gts; but it was initially hyped to be the 8800gtx killer!

I really hope the 2950xt is awesome (I admit I am a ATi fanboy), but till we see some benchmarks, I would not judge to much.
October 12, 2007 8:37:11 PM

bfg72 said:
Don't believe the hype !!

ATI is not even in the game anymore, and their drivers aren't much better.

IF, there is any truth behind this one very small victory for ATi, then it will be short lived.


Don't spout utter crap. We now know how the architecture performs, the specs of this card and its rough price. It WILL be a very good card for the price and if it isn't for 8800gt then it would cause serious blows to nvidia.

And it IS confirmed for the RV670...

Same core specs as r600
55nm
256bit interface
512mb gddr4 memory
clocks I cant remember off top of my head but i think its 825 for core and 1250 for memory.


But please feel free to give me a few points behind your absolute knowledge.


October 12, 2007 8:54:38 PM

Hatman said:
Don't spout utter crap. We now know how the architecture performs, the specs of this card and its rough price. It WILL be a very good card for the price and if it isn't for 8800gt then it would cause serious blows to nvidia.

But please feel free to give me a few points behind your absolute knowledge.


If only if it wasn't for a better nVidia card, or a better company beating us, or ATi had better drivers, or a law was passed saying we all had to run ATi's, it would be a much better card... honestly !!

Come on give it up, and not that I should knock your over-whelming fountain of knowledge, after only being out of school longer than it took me to drink my last cup of coffee.

Hey, do you even remember Pac-Man ??
October 12, 2007 9:00:24 PM

If you want I can mention how you may be a disturbed individual arguing with a young person on an online forum, but I wont go into taht because im better then you obviously.

But if you go into things like age or insults again just because you cant think of anything intelligent to say ill probably report you.

Wana post? Then dont post rubbish.

ATI card = Good

And im getting an 8800gt, just for record.
October 12, 2007 9:01:14 PM

daye159 said:
the HD2950s will beat the 8800gtx by alot i am getting 1 ill never buy any nvidia crap i removed all nvidia stuff from my pc
do us all a favor and get one now..., good riddance
a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2007 9:42:46 PM

@bfg72

Lighten up or go away. We don't like your kind here. This is a place for discussion, not insults and stupidity.
October 12, 2007 9:44:58 PM

computertech82 said:
You seemed confused. 2950 isn't a high-end video card, it's more of the replacement for the x1950 pro.
http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/HD_2950Pro_%28RV670%29_...


It supposed to be but I cant see anyway its going to under-perform the 2900xt, its got half the memory bus rate but it has 70mhz+ core clock.

What its supposed to do and what it will do will be totally different. Higher resolutions id say the 512bit will help it lots, but the card generally does bad at high resolutions anyway. If the AA problems are solved in the new model aswell which they should be, then we have a new winner.
a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2007 10:04:34 PM

Hatman said:
It supposed to be but I cant see anyway its going to under-perform the 2900xt, its got half the memory bus rate but it has 70mhz+ core clock.

What its supposed to do and what it will do will be totally different. Higher resolutions id say the 512bit will help it lots, but the card generally does bad at high resolutions anyway. If the AA problems are solved in the new model aswell which they should be, then we have a new winner.


It is NOT the R670 but a RENAMED R600 (aka RV670). So you really can't compare the slower outdated gpu with the newer R670 gpu.
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePubl...
October 12, 2007 10:09:05 PM

DX10 is what matters in this part of the market, and the 2900XT is extremely inferior to the 8800GTX in DX10. Therefore it is unlikely that the 2950 will beat it - but we will see and until then, who knows?

This is just a pointless flame war.

October 12, 2007 10:19:55 PM

trooper1947 said:
My .... My ... Why don't I see any posts about the new ATI 2950 ?? Fully Directx 10.1 capable .... low priced ... blowing nvidia 8800's away .... need I go on ? Release date november ! Advanced SLI capable ! My bank card is now burning a hole in my wallet ----- :bounce:  I knew if we waited a bit the video wars would pay off . Come on TH ..... put some specs and reviews on their possibilities here !



Not trying to be an a** when i say this, but...

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245417-33-year

- About DX10.1

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245425-33-2950xt-powe...

- HD2950Xt power requirements

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245312-33-2950xt-beat...

- HD2950XT discussion

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245323-33-rv670-good

- About RV670 a.k.a HD2950XT

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245324-33-zone-r680-s...

About upcoming ATI cards, notably the HD2950XT

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245246-33-launch-rv67...

- RV670 suspected release date discussion


Not trying to be mean or anything, but all it takes is a simple search to find things you want. ;) 


ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT NOTE

As for the comment on NVIDIA drivers sucking. I very, very much beg to differ. I just RMA'd my HD2900 Pro, and went back to my 7900GS until i can purchase my 8800GTX within the next week. Now that the HD2900 Pro is out of my system, there's no more lag, no more graphical errors, such as a black box inplace of my mouse cursor, I can runs games, I can run benchmark programs. When the HD2900 Pro was in my system, NONE of that was possible. There was NO documentation with the HD2900 Pro, well, i correct myself, they showed a picture of how to take out an older card and put in a newer card, but that was it.

NVIDIA drivers are MUCH more stable than ATI drivers. For one, I don't get errors any more. That's the biggest thing to note. So going from NVIDIA to ATI than back to NVIDIA. I question myself as to why i ever left the NVIDIA camp...

Also, please do note that the RV670 is NOT an entirely new card. It is just a higher model, slated for better performance and touting better technologies, such as DX10.1, PCI-E 2.0, and a die shrink if i recall correctly. It' smore or less the same distinction between an X1900XTX and an X1950XTX. Only difference is one is slightly faster than the other, which is what the HD2950XT will be; just a faster variant of a moderate card.

If you want SIGNIFICANT performance gains, wait till R680 comes out. That as I recall, will be an entirely new card altogether. Or just buy NVIDIA and stop playing the waiting game...that works too. ;) 
October 12, 2007 10:32:34 PM

computertech82 said:
It is NOT the R670 but a RENAMED R600 (aka RV670). So you really can't compare the slower outdated gpu with the newer R670 gpu.
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePubl...



So what? You couldnt use it in a r600 an call it that therefor its a rv670.

And if anything taht means you CAN compare it even more!!! Because they are 100% the same thing according to you then they should be equal, and teh new cards performance spcs should put it's performance higher then taht of the hd2900xt!


R680 wont be a new card altogether it's 2x 2950xt/pro's on a single PCB base. Like the 2600xt gemini.

If you had to RMA it then obviously it was faulty and wouldnt work, you think an nvidia card would magically work even if tis faulty? lol.

R600 was a mistake, from current specs RV670 wont be.
October 12, 2007 10:51:30 PM

Hatman said:
So what? You couldnt use it in a r600 an call it that therefor its a rv670.

And if anything taht means you CAN compare it even more!!! Because they are 100% the same thing according to you then they should be equal, and teh new cards performance spcs should put it's performance higher then taht of the hd2900xt!


R680 wont be a new card altogether it's 2x 2950xt/pro's on a single PCB base. Like the 2600xt gemini.

If you had to RMA it then obviously it was faulty and wouldnt work, you think an nvidia card would magically work even if tis faulty? lol.

R600 was a mistake, from current specs RV670 wont be.


Oh no, no my Young Padawan Learner.

It was RMA'd because it SUCKED. RMA doesn't mean just faulty, it can mean it performs poorly, it means you decided to go with a competitor, really it means you can return it for any reaosn you so desire; which is exactly what i did. Read my thread. You'll learn many things, O' Young Padawan Learner. ;) 

From current specs however, it's the same thing R600 was. Claiming BIG specs, BIG perofrmance gains, BIG results. Instead what we got was bigger delays, bigger let downs, and an even bigger waste of money.

As for the HD2900XT's being slapped on a single PCB. Well grats, vwala, you have, as I liek to call, "CC" or, Compact Crossfire. Which is just that. Crossfire. STILL SUCKY!!

I neglect to see why you're excited about this product. It's hype my good friend, just hype. Don't get sucked in!!
a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2007 10:57:54 PM

Hatman said:
So what? You couldnt use it in a r600 an call it that therefor its a rv670.

And if anything taht means you CAN compare it even more!!! Because they are 100% the same thing according to you then they should be equal, and teh new cards performance spcs should put it's performance higher then taht of the hd2900xt!


R680 wont be a new card altogether it's 2x 2950xt/pro's on a single PCB base. Like the 2600xt gemini.

If you had to RMA it then obviously it was faulty and wouldnt work, you think an nvidia card would magically work even if tis faulty? lol.

R600 was a mistake, from current specs RV670 wont be.


You're confused again. That's like saying the 486 cpu renamed is suddenly faster then the core2 cpus (yea....riiiight). R600 gpu will perform like a R600 gpu (renaming a yugo to a porche does mean it's a porche).
It will be faster then the R600 gpu but still FAR SLOWER then a REAL R670 gpu. It will be close to the performance of the 8800GT (slower then the 8800GTS). So R600 (aka RV670) x1950 pro card renamed will be faster then the original, but NOT faster then the x2950 (that's just stupid). They are NOT going to undercut their own high-price video card with a cheaper one.
October 12, 2007 11:17:05 PM

justinmcg67 said:
Well grats, vwala, you have, as I liek to call


My french teacher will be turning in his grave

:lol:  :non: 



October 12, 2007 11:19:18 PM

ethel said:
My french teacher will be turning in his grave

:lol:  :non: 


Ya know, right form the get go I knew I had it spelled wrong. :heink: 
October 12, 2007 11:50:07 PM

justinmcg67 said:
Ya know, right form the get go I knew I had it spelled wrong. :heink: 


Voila! Thaz very amuzing...Becauze een fronce, Ve vould make fun of you for zees.

on a real note..lol..Did you order your 8800 GTX yet? Sorry that the 2900 pro didn't work out. Especially considering I recommended you to format. But it did fix the problem!...you just ran into another...lol...
October 12, 2007 11:53:03 PM

justinmcg67 said:
Oh no, no my Young Padawan Learner.

It was RMA'd because it SUCKED. RMA doesn't mean just faulty, it can mean it performs poorly, I neglect to see why you're excited about this product. It's hype my good friend, just hype. Don't get sucked in!!


You know, I read your post on the 2900Pro, and you said very pointedly that you used the Pinnacle drivers THAT CAME ON THE INCLUDED CD! It has been very well established that ATI video drivers have been going through a hard and painful evolution, the earlier drivers were just not ready for market, yet you NEVER tried a recent driver, nor one from ATI which would be ahead of 3rd-party revisions. That completely nullifies anything you have to say about the card. I bought the HD2900Pro two days ago to replace an 8800GTS 320, installed the 7.9 Catalyst drivers, and it performs FLAWLESSLY, beautifully. It's a great card. And it has DirectX overlay support, fullscreen video on the second monitor, which the entire 8800-series lacks.

My system is a Q6600 on Vanilla P5K, Silverstone 650 watt supply.
October 13, 2007 12:27:28 AM

trooper1947 said:
My .... My ... Why don't I see any posts about the new ATI 2950 ?? Fully Directx 10.1 capable .... low priced ... blowing nvidia 8800's away .... need I go on ? Release date november ! Advanced SLI capable ! My bank card is now burning a hole in my wallet ----- :bounce:  I knew if we waited a bit the video wars would pay off . Come on TH ..... put some specs and reviews on their possibilities here !


maybe you dont see any post cause of the fact the card hasnt been even released yet. And we've all heard of the so called Nvidia killer ATI cards hype for over a year now and from the recent video card blowout TH just done Nvidia rang supreme in, wait for it, ALL, test. So unless this new card is gonna come equiped with a flex capacitor or something it just may be another overly hyped ATI let down. And by the way, for games DX10.1 means nothing. It's been said DX10.1 is just Vista crap and games will not really benifit from it. This is a direct qoute from Microsoft on the matter:

"Microsoft's Sam Glassenberg told Next-Gen in a phone interview, "DX10.1 fully supports DX10 hardware. No hardware support is being removed....It's strictly a superset. It's basically an update to DX10 that extends the hardware functionality slightly.....It's a minor update, so we don't expect any developers to say, 'oh, this game is DX10.1 only."

So a DX10.1 card will not have a graphical impact over a first generation DX10 card.
October 13, 2007 12:39:23 AM

It's not all about the GTXes the Ultras are now the flagmanship. As far as the 2900XT it's fan hype. ATI mucst've made it in competition with the GTS on purpose or more competitive price. They could've bought a GTX then made the 2900XT just to be stronger. I refuse to say about the 2950s until I see benchies. ADDICTED TO BENICHES!
October 13, 2007 12:48:36 AM

Kamrooz said:
Voila! Thaz very amuzing...Becauze een fronce, Ve vould make fun of you for zees.

on a real note..lol..Did you order your 8800 GTX yet? Sorry that the 2900 pro didn't work out. Especially considering I recommended you to format. But it did fix the problem!...you just ran into another...lol...


Yes, the format did fix the problem! So thank you for that! +1 for you buddy. ;) 


BustedSony said:
You know, I read your post on the 2900Pro, and you said very pointedly that you used the Pinnacle drivers THAT CAME ON THE INCLUDED CD! It has been very well established that ATI video drivers have been going through a hard and painful evolution, the earlier drivers were just not ready for market, yet you NEVER tried a recent driver, nor one from ATI which would be ahead of 3rd-party revisions. That completely nullifies anything you have to say about the card. I bought the HD2900Pro two days ago to replace an 8800GTS 320, installed the 7.9 Catalyst drivers, and it performs FLAWLESSLY, beautifully. It's a great card. And it has DirectX overlay support, fullscreen video on the second monitor, which the entire 8800-series lacks.

My system is a Q6600 on Vanilla P5K, Silverstone 650 watt supply.



Actually I first downloaded the drivers, and than installed them, uninstalled them, reinstalled them, and than rince and repeated that process about six more times, give or take. And than I saw my handy dandy Sapphire CD just glaring at me...with that, "Try this poison next" look. (If you could even call it a look :heink:  ) I tried about everything i could think of. It wasn't my first time installing cards or having issues...I've been through almost all of it. :ouch: 

And wingsofzion there is post/threads out there. I linked them earlier. :D 
October 13, 2007 12:52:16 AM

justinmcg67 said:
Oh no, no my Young Padawan Learner.

It was RMA'd because it SUCKED. RMA doesn't mean just faulty, it can mean it performs poorly, it means you decided to go with a competitor, really it means you can return it for any reaosn you so desire; which is exactly what i did. Read my thread. You'll learn many things, O'
Young Padawan Learner. ;) 

From current specs however, it's the same thing R600 was. Claiming BIG specs, BIG perofrmance gains, BIG results. Instead what we got was bigger delays, bigger let downs, and an even bigger waste of money.

As for the HD2900XT's being slapped on a single PCB. Well grats, vwala, you have, as I liek to call, "CC" or, Compact Crossfire. Which is just that. Crossfire. STILL SUCKY!!

I neglect to see why you're excited about this product. It's hype my good friend, just hype. Don't get sucked in!!

Dont talk to me like im an idiot. You're obviously an nvidia fanboy so im not going to bother replying to you again.
Just this though, find something better to do then waste time with useless posts like that, because its nothing like the release of r600 at all. We KNOW its performance because it uses the same core as an R600 with much higher clock speeds as the other guy pointed out in the quote below, it WILL beat the 2900xt, so there goes your whole argument bob.


computertech82 said:
You're
confused again. That's like saying the 486 cpu renamed is suddenly
faster then the core2 cpus (yea....riiiight). R600 gpu will perform
like a R600 gpu (renaming a yugo to a porche does mean it's a porche).
It
will be faster then the R600 gpu but still FAR SLOWER then a REAL R670
gpu. It will be close to the performance of the 8800GT (slower then the
8800GTS). So R600 (aka RV670) x1950 pro card renamed will be faster
then the original, but NOT faster then the x2950 (that's just stupid).
They are NOT going to undercut their own high-price video card with a
cheaper one.



Sais who? Nvidia are basically doing it and ending the 8800gts production in favor of one with more shader proccessors. Try to pay attention to things a bit more.

It WILL likely be faster, your whole argument of why it wont be faster is that its meant to be lower then the 2900xt.

So the 2950xt according to you will be slower then the 2900xt? Riiiight.

Its R600 on 55nm with faster clocks and 256bit memory bus and likely will AA fixes aswell. It will outperform the 2900xt...


October 13, 2007 12:59:50 AM

justinmcg67 said:
Yes, the format did fix the problem! So thank you for that! +1 for you buddy. ;) 





Actually I first downloaded the drivers, and than installed them, uninstalled them, reinstalled them, and than rince and repeated that process about six more times, give or take. And than I saw my handy dandy Sapphire CD just glaring at me...with that, "Try this poison next" look. (If you could even call it a look :heink:  ) I tried about everything i could think of. It wasn't my first time installing cards or having issues...I've been through almost all of it. :ouch: 

And wingsofzion there is post/threads out there. I linked them earlier. :D 


You had problems with one card on one system, and it improved after an OS reinstall, at which point you just tried the Pinnacle drivers. Maybe that card WAS bad, it happens, and an RMA would be in order, but that doesn't mean that the model sucks. :non:  I have a capture card (Pinnacle....) that refused to install on one system without actually damaging the OS, I've since had it in two other computers with no issues at all.
October 13, 2007 1:09:20 AM

Dont talk to me like im an idiot. You're obviously an nvidia fanboy so im not going to bother replying to you again.
Just this though, find something better to do then waste time with useless posts like that, because its nothing like the release of r600 at all. We KNOW its performance because it uses the same core as an R600 with much higher clock speeds as the other guy pointed out in the quote below, it WILL beat the 2900xt, so there goes your whole argument bob. said:
Dont talk to me like im an idiot. You're obviously an nvidia fanboy so im not going to bother replying to you again.
Just this though, find something better to do then waste time with useless posts like that, because its nothing like the release of r600 at all. We KNOW its performance because it uses the same core as an R600 with much higher clock speeds as the other guy pointed out in the quote below, it WILL beat the 2900xt, so there goes your whole argument bob.


Whoa there buddy. No need to flip the sh*t. take a CHILL pill.

Might I add though, and being that you're much more intelligent and clearly have oodles more time on hands than I, that you do me ONE simple thing...compare the release of R600 based products to RV670 based products. Let me know what you find. Oh wait, i can tell you! THE SAME THING! lots and lots of hype!! RV670 will no doubt be better than an HD2900XT, DUH! That's how you run a business! You don't make new products that suck...so naturally it'd be better right? But will it be better than an 8800GTX Ultra? no way...not even close

Hmmm, I do however like when you say my entire argument is gone (although I was not arguing with you initially, but you've change the tide so f*** it.),yet the basis for your HD2950XT Uberness is based on A.) The Inquirer articles, B.) ATI roadmaps (yay! we all know how well those turn out!!), C.) general opinion, and D.) NO OFFICIAL DATA.

Oh and mind explaining to me how I'm an NVIDIA fanboy if I just spent $270 on a dam* ATI product? Clearly we spend hundreds on things we're against...that makes COMPLETE sense.

But hey, lets compare Apples to Apples instead of made up things to real products shall we? Ok than... 8800GTX > HD2900XT. END OF STORY.

Oh wait..


here it comes...


ready...


HD2950XT WILL PWN TEH NVS YA BOB.


or something like that right?







BustedSony said:
You had problems with one card on one system, and it improved after an OS reinstall, at which point you just tried the Pinnacle drivers. Maybe that card WAS bad, it happens, and an RMA would be in order, but that doesn't mean that the model sucks. :non:  I have a capture card (Pinnacle....) that refused to install on one system without actually damaging the OS, I've since had it in two other computers with no issues at all.



True I only tested one card on one system, but i don't have systems to test and any other HD2900 Pro to test, i wish i did though, that would have saved me tons of time. I tried reading a lot on the card and to see how many people had issues with it, and if they had issues, than what issues were they. That was pretty successful to say the least. A lot of people here helped me trouble shoot, which was FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC. ;)  But other forums with people who posted similar things helped out too.

And yeah, the card may have been bad, but it may have been perfectly fine...I won't really ever know. But I didn't want to spend any more time on it than I already had. It was extremely frustrating and not worth the money i spent on it. I opted to just RMA for a refund and buy something else next week when my next paycheck arrives.

And also relating to your Pinnacle issue, I had an older Radeon 9250 (loved that card) that wouldn't work in my Uncle's PC but worked just fine in mine. Was my first real gaming card too. $90 at the time. Ahhh good times...good times. :) 
October 13, 2007 2:13:36 AM

You're way too cocky for your own good.

"From current specs however, it's the same thing R600 was. Claiming BIG specs, BIG perofrmance gains, BIG results. Instead what we got was bigger delays, bigger let downs, and an even bigger waste of money.


As for the HD2900XT's being slapped on a single PCB. Well grats, vwala, you have, as I liek to call, "CC" or, Compact Crossfire. Which is just that. Crossfire. STILL SUCKY!!

You couldnt get a card working so suddenly ATI and all their products completly suck.

So what is it? You're just angry because of your card or are you an nvidia fanboy? Normal people dont just randomly explain how they think ATI is complete crap with so much sarcasm and detail, they normally just say it.

If you want to see how 2900pro performs go read some reviews instead of saying you dont have another to test.

But heh I cba arguing with you, its like arguing with a tree.
October 13, 2007 2:24:11 AM

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the R670 is being manufactured using a much better fab process than the R600 was. The main problem with the R600 is the huge amount of electronic leakage that occurs (into the silicon.) So in theory, the R670 could be substantially more efficient than the R600. If this proves to be true, the R670 could very possibly scale beyond the 8800gtx, even if that is not their initial target.

The thing that excites me about AMD is their newfound commitment to providing hardware specs (including the R670) to the open-source community. This will really help the UNIX community move forward. (no more having to download nvidia binary drivers, and recompiling the kernel to support it etc...)
October 13, 2007 2:29:16 AM

Hatman said:
You're way too cocky for your own good.You couldnt get a card working so suddenly ATI and all their products completly suck.


No, I said that card sucks, than after reading, browsing the website, it was quite apparent that there was very little support for the products. Don't believe me, go browse the ATI.com website. Oh, good luck with submitting the 24-hour ticket, all i got was a "This service is currently unavailable. But if you get it working, than grats. And how am I being cocky? I state what is FACT, A.) HD2950XT isn't out, your argument for it being better is NULL, B.) The HD2900 Pro I had was a HORRIBLE product, and C.) Based on the lack of support, poor quality for the product, and having no documentation, we can conclude that the company does in fact suck.

But hey, if you wanan go and spend your hard earned money on a POS video card, get extremely frustrated with it, than consult a forum on help, only to have dipsticks like you pis and moan, be my guest. Have fun.

Hatman said:
So what is it? You're just angry because of your card or are you an nvidia fanboy? Normal people dont just randomly explain how they think ATI is complete crap with so much sarcasm and detail, they normally just say it.


I'm angry the card didn't work as I had VERY high expectations for it, given I read a ton of articles on it and saw a lot of benchmarks, in fact my purchase was motivated by the sheer fact that it could over-clock beyond XT levels. But now I got an 8800GTX on order, will be here Wednesday. ;)  Oh, and it wasn't sarcasm about ATI sucking, proof of that is in the blunt fact that their products are inferior and they have tremendously cheap stock.

Hatman said:
If you want to see how 2900pro performs go read some reviews instead of saying you dont have another to test.

Been there. Done that.

1751929,33,141231 said:
But heh I cba arguing with you, its like arguing with a tree.
said:


Hmmm, if I'm like arguing with a tree, than that makes you on the same terms as arguing with a dipshi*. Tree > Dipshi*. <3 my Oxygen producing wood, photosynthesizing leaves, and the general quality trees (that's me ;)  )bring to life and nature. Whereas you, the Dipsh*, brings nothing but frustration and overall annoyance. Thanks.
October 13, 2007 3:57:06 AM

Overall on a serious note. The 2900 pro is a fantastic card for the money. You were just unlucky to have it not perform on your system.

But you stated if I remember correctly you used two PCI-e 2x3 connectors...Which is correct. But overall the card is far from ****. You just had shotty luck when it came to your system.

....I just looked at your image from the other thread...Bro...I wish you could of at least researched before sending the card back. The 2900 series doesn't work with ati tool 0.26...the 0.27b beta does. ::sighs::...

ALSO...ATI Tray Tools doesn't support 2x00 cards in terms of overclocking. It seems you based the return off the fact that you used the wrong version of ATI Tools to begin with. As well as using ATI Tray Tools which doesn't support overclocking on the 2x00 to OC..Which is why you got that "ati2mtag.sys" bsod to begin with. If you google it you'll notice it has happened quite often to others..and it's because ATI Tray Tool doesn't support the card atm.

Google is your friend man...lol..

The main thing is..You were having software issues to begin with in the beginning when you got the card. You had the 7900 nvidia card and removed the drivers. Popped in your 2900 pro and had tons of driver issues and CPU Usage problems. Driver cleaner could fix this as you were having "software" issues. But you formatted which is even better which fixed the problem. You used the wrong version of ATITool which made you more angry at the card....You also used ATI Tray Tool to OC when it doesn't support the 2x00 "yet"...and got a bsod which made you think the card was a "POS". Overall a bit of research is needed bro before you decide the card is "broken/messed up". The card was perfectly fine. You said yourself you were getting high frame rates in fear or some game..(don't remember which you stated in the other thread). So it was basically on your side for not looking into the issues...

Now this aint a bash or a flame..But you really should use google to find similar issues. I just decided to google up your problems and found all this info within 5 minutes. Which would of helped solve all your issues and inform you why you were having problems with ATITool & Ati Tray Tools. It's unfair to judge harshly on the 2900 pro when it wasn't the cards fault...It was just your handling of software which caused the problems.

Everyone has been claiming the 2900 pro as a great card...A fraction of the cost of the 2900XT..It's also just a under clocked XT as well. Which is great for people to just nab them and OC them. This eliminates the excess stock of ati's chips as well to make room for the smaller 55nm version coming out relatively soon. But that's just my 2 cents...No need to be harsh on the card..It was doing everything right...You just had some software issues you didn't understand.
October 13, 2007 4:14:44 AM

Kamrooz said:
Overall on a serious note. The 2900 pro is a fantastic card for the money. You were just unlucky to have it not perform on your system.


I knew that, that's EXACTLY why i bought the card. :( 


Kamrooz said:
But you stated if I remember correctly you used two PCI-e 2x3 connectors...Which is correct. But overall the card is far from ****. You just had shotty luck when it came to your system.


Well, PSU worked, everything else worked, only flaw in the system was the video card, thus I returned it and got the 8800GTX on order.

Kamrooz said:
....I just looked at your image from the other thread...Bro...I wish you could of at least researched before sending the card back. The 2900 series doesn't work with ati tool 0.26...the 0.27b beta does. ::sighs::...


Where were you when I needed you!! had I known this, as I did not see anything stating HD2900 series products were not supported, only X1900 series products, hence I downloaded and attempted to use the utility.

Kamrooz said:
ALSO...ATI Tray Tools doesn't support 2x00 cards in terms of overclocking. It seems you based the return off the fact that you used the wrong version of ATI Tools to begin with. As well as using ATI Tray Tools which doesn't support overclocking on the 2x00 to OC..Which is why you got that "ati2mtag.sys" bsod to begin with. If you google it you'll notice it has happened quite often to others..and it's because ATI Tray Tool doesn't support the card atm.

Google is your friend man...lol..


Google is everyone's friend indeed. However, I checked at Guru3d.com and several other sites, some people who posted were using ATI Tray Tools, which is why I attempted to use that as well. I figure, hey, if it works for them, shoot, why not try it on mine. :( 


Kamrooz said:
The main thing is..You were having software issues to begin with in the beginning when you got the card. You had the 7900 nvidia card and removed the drivers. Popped in your 2900 pro and had tons of driver issues and CPU Usage problems. Driver cleaner could fix this as you were having "software" issues. But you formatted which is even better which fixed the problem. You used the wrong version of ATITool which made you more angry at the card....You also used ATI Tray Tool to OC when it doesn't support the 2x00 "yet"...and got a bsod which made you think the card was a "POS". Overall a bit of research is needed bro before you decide the card is "broken/messed up". The card was perfectly fine. You said yourself you were getting high frame rates in fear or some game..(don't remember which you stated in the other thread). So it was basically on your side for not looking into the issues...


I did look into the issues as a matter of fact. That was THE first thing I googled, whom is our friend remember. ;)  I decided the card was not worth any more effort and frustration, so I RMA'd it. People can justify all the card they want, but when it comes right down to it, when I spent money on a product, I expect it to work. The same you would expect if you purchased a car, you'd expect it to work right? Removing drivers is an issue unto itself. Removing them shoudl be an easy process and require minimal effort. I've removed NVIDIA drivers and ATI drivers several times on a few different PCs, thus far NVIDIA's have given me the minimal problems. (And form over the years and articles/threads read, NVIDIA has more often than not had better driver support, espcially in Linux based systems.)


Kamrooz said:
Now this aint a bash or a flame..But you really should use google to find similar issues. I just decided to google up your problems and found all this info within 5 minutes. Which would of helped solve all your issues and inform you why you were having problems with ATITool & Ati Tray Tools. It's unfair to judge harshly on the 2900 pro when it wasn't the cards fault...It was just your handling of software which caused the problems.


What was your search? I tried "ATI HD2900 Pro problems/issues" "HD2900 PRO" "ATI Driver Issues" and i think that was it. Several pages of results, most were irrelevant however. Judging harshly or not is based upon the consumer. It failed to meet my expectations, thus, I am free to judge it. Though it may not be the general consensus of judgments, it is a criticism nonetheless. Just as if you were to do the same to any other comparable product.

Kamrooz said:
Everyone has been claiming the 2900 pro as a great card...A fraction of the cost of the 2900XT..It's also just a under clocked XT as well. Which is great for people to just nab them and OC them. This eliminates the excess stock of ati's chips as well to make room for the smaller 55nm version coming out relatively soon. But that's just my 2 cents...No need to be harsh on the card..It was doing everything right...You just had some software issues you didn't understand.


While some of the software issues I did not understand, one thing was quite clear: it was not performing to my expectations. And truth be told, that's what matters. If its your card, it's your money spent, it's your choice. Bottom line. understanding or not is great and all, but i don't like to troubleshoot my cards for an entire weekend. If people like to do that with their time, than that's cool. I rather play games and get the frames I expect. *to each his own*
October 13, 2007 4:44:46 AM

lol..It's no worries...But it's unfair to call the card "****" and a "pos" when there was nothing wrong with it...

ATI Tray Tools and ATITool aren't official software from any manufacturers. They are small projects lead by one person or a small team. So can't really blame them for not having their current versions working with new products. ATI Tray Tools is a bit dated atm...While the 0.27b beta of ATITools is working on the r600 series.

Regarding google. Just type in the issues you were having. For the blue screen I just put "ati2mtag.sys, ati tray tools" into google. The problem file and the software you were using...instant results. For the ATITool...NEVER download community software from just any place...Always make sure you are download from the official source. I just put "ATItool"....3rd result down is the beta download..I click the link and read the changes...states it supports r600...Also the first result on the search leads to a page that has a forum discussion link and a beta forum link...which would of lead you to the same solution as well.

It was all there...lol..But it's ok. The card is fine (Imo fantastic)...Just nabbing a 2900 pro and oc'ing it to match/above a XT..I've seen people reaching these OC's....Afterall..It's just a 2900XT underclocked with lower voltage. Fantastic deal around 250..considering you can get a 400 dollar card out of it if you know how to use/tweak it properly.

The 2950 series will be really something to scratch your head about. Not sure how it's going to perform. But hopefully it should give out some nice performance. I'm not going to judge it yet...Even though it has a a 256 bit bus compared to the 512 of the 2900XT....But there must be something good coming out of it. Time will tell though...

But yea...The 2900 Pro is a perfectly great card for the money. You were just searching for the wrong issues...It wasn't driver related...The first problem was though which you formatted to solve. Removing drivers through the control panel won't always solve everything. If that was the case driver cleaner wouldn't exist. ATI and nvidia have both gotten better at having it removed on uninstalls..But it's not always the case. Which is why driver cleaner pro is on the list of programs I install once I format.

IMO though...I believe ATI has better driver support. They release drivers much more often IMO then nvidia does. Their 2x00 series drivers on launch were just not ready...Had nothing to do really with being bad at driver support. Considering delay after delay it makes sense why they had such a rocky start to begin with.

But yea...No harm done...but you should always research into the issues as thoroughly as possible. you blamed the card mercilessly when it wasn't at fault =(...brings a tear to my eye considering how great the card really is for the price....Heck, a 250-280 dollar card that has the potential to be OC'ed to it's 400 dollar bigger brother...a steal in my eyes.
October 13, 2007 5:23:01 AM

Kamrooz said:
lol..It's no worries...But it's unfair to call the card "****" and a "pos" when there was nothing wrong with it...


Depends on your perspective of "wrong with it." To me, the fact that the manual that came with the product was so irrelevant that that was strike one. In addition, when i went to submit a ticket, at the time, from ATI.com I got a "This service is currently unavailable." That's strike two. And lastly, driver issues. if I uninstall them, I EXPECT them to be gone. plain and simple. If you put a spare tire on your care you'd expect that the maker would put solid rubber on it right? Only makes sense that when you do something it should be done all the way, and not require a third party program to get the job done.

Kamrooz said:
ATI Tray Tools and ATITool aren't official software from any manufacturers. They are small projects lead by one person or a small team. So can't really blame them for not having their current versions working with new products. ATI Tray Tools is a bit dated atm...While the 0.27b beta of ATITools is working on the r600 series.


While that is true, they are trusted software. So that plays a huge role as well. That's why I went with ATI Tray Tools in addition to the fact that I saw other people over-clocking with it; is that my friend used it on his X800GTO and told me it was a great program. I trust my friend's judgment, so I tried it.

Kamrooz said:
Regarding google. Just type in the issues you were having. For the blue screen I just put "ati2mtag.sys, ati tray tools" into google. The problem file and the software you were using...instant results. For the ATITool...NEVER download community software from just any place...Always make sure you are download from the official source. I just put "ATItool"....3rd result down is the beta download..I click the link and read the changes...states it supports r600...Also the first result on the search leads to a page that has a forum discussion link and a beta forum link...which would of lead you to the same solution as well.


While I did not type in ati2mtag.sys into Google, because at that point I had the screwdriver in hand and the case open, getting ready to RMA the card. As for ATITool, I went straight to TechPowerUp.com and downloaded the latest version. Same place I also nabbed GPU-Z. ;)  Generally speaking I don't Google search for programs when I know where they're located. That's just a personal preference. Like I wouldn't google for Firefox download if I know to go to getfirefox.com and I can just get it right from there. You see what I'm getting at with this?

Kamrooz said:
It was all there...lol..But it's ok. The card is fine (Imo fantastic)...Just nabbing a 2900 pro and oc'ing it to match/above a XT..I've seen people reaching these OC's....Afterall..It's just a 2900XT underclocked with lower voltage. Fantastic deal around 250..considering you can get a 400 dollar card out of it if you know how to use/tweak it properly.


true, it can save money, which, as I've stated previously, was one of the reasons I initially purchased the card. While sites claim it's fantastic, other people were having issues. I guess it slants both ways. I just didn't want to put up with it any more. And I don't think any more justification needs to be said about that. New card is ordered, it's on it's way. Couldn't ask for more than that.

Kamrooz said:
The 2950 series will be really something to scratch your head about. Not sure how it's going to perform. But hopefully it should give out some nice performance. I'm not going to judge it yet...Even though it has a a 256 bit bus compared to the 512 of the 2900XT....But there must be something good coming out of it. Time will tell though...


perhaps the DX10.1 and PCI-E 2.0 support? Putting 256-bit on it is comparable to why NVIDIA put 128-bit on the 8600 series...very weird, very questionable.

Kamrooz said:
But yea...The 2900 Pro is a perfectly great card for the money. You were just searching for the wrong issues...It wasn't driver related...The first problem was though which you formatted to solve. Removing drivers through the control panel won't always solve everything. If that was the case driver cleaner wouldn't exist. ATI and nvidia have both gotten better at having it removed on uninstalls..But it's not always the case. Which is why driver cleaner pro is on the list of programs I install once I format.


Well the format solved the driver issues i suppose you could say. But I bought the card for the fact it can OC to XT and beyond levels, as I stated before. The fact that the two programs that were recommended did not work, makes the purchase null. Hence I bought the 8800GTX OC not two hours ago.

Kamrooz said:
IMO though...I believe ATI has better driver support. They release drivers much more often IMO then nvidia does. Their 2x00 series drivers on launch were just not ready...Had nothing to do really with being bad at driver support. Considering delay after delay it makes sense why they had such a rocky start to begin with.


Than again driver release can be seen as more issues. Or more support. Take your pick really. I've used NVIDIA and ATI drivers several times on a few different PCs. I have friends and family that use both brands of cards, conclusively I can say that in my own opinion, NVIDIA has better drivers. But, to each their own. Pick what works for you. in fact opt for a third-party driver if you're ballsy enough.

Kamrooz said:
But yea...No harm done...but you should always research into the issues as thoroughly as possible. you blamed the card mercilessly when it wasn't at fault =(...brings a tear to my eye considering how great the card really is for the price....Heck, a 250-280 dollar card that has the potential to be OC'ed to it's 400 dollar bigger brother...a steal in my eyes.


Well, until you actually purchase the thing and test it out on your own, than the issue becomes entirely different. Same for anything you purchase really. Brochures, Ads, reviews can be great, but that doesn't guarantee greatness on your end. Things happen. In my case, I had no patience for this piece of hardware, which in my opinion was a POS. I hold my products and purchases to high standards, if they don't meet them, they're out the door and I'm buying a competitors product. Simple as that. if the card is not working as it should, which to me means, uninstall old drivers, reinstall new drivers, put the thing in, install new drivers, and play, than it's bad. It didn't meet expectations. If you want to hold it to a lower standard and troubleshoot for hours on end, wasting time, that's one's own prerogative. But personally, I rather not waste any more time on it. There is absolutely nothing more frustrating than troubleshooting hardware and drivers.


EDIT: It's also worth noting that the HD2900 Pro was NOT running at Sapphire's claimed speeds. (Another member had the same issue with his card as well.) I suspected a power saving issue and didn't think much of it, but the other member gives reason to speculate an "Over Drive" issue. Which I think, thus far, is quite valid. Yet another con for that card. =/

EDIT2: Come to think of it, nothing explains the audio issue I was having. Why my sound just suddenly stopped out of nowhere. I suspect the AT200 Audio Driver is to blame for this, which means a driver issue is definetly to blame for this one. Like I said, the brochure is nice and all, but the actual thing can be rather different. ;) 
October 13, 2007 5:47:43 AM

If memory serves me right wasn't the 7900 GS the card you had before? Therefore it was the Nvidia drivers which weren't removed appropriately ^_^. Which would be an nvidia problem. But always keep driver cleaner on your system...It's a god send imo.

Regarding trusted software...Of course it's indeed important..But it's also important to make sure it's up to date and supports your product. Especially when downloading something like this to OC your product. It's just like drivers...All are trusted...but the new versions offer better performance and support for new software/games/hardware.

You can't really compare firefox to ati tools though. Firefox is a major branded software which is extremely easy to get considering everyone knows the company it's released from. It also has it's own domain for the product as well. Did you not google search for ATI Tray Tools and ATITool?...Cause it seems you stated you just nabbed it off techpowerup...Even so..Techpowerup has a link to ATITool Discussion as well as the beta forum discussion. If you were running into issues you should of gave it a look through as the problem is mentioned on the first page of threads. This forum is also the main release area/discussion forum for the product. As the creator of the program posts the files himself on the forums.

Regardless though you're still getting a top notch card....MUCH more expensive then the 2900 pro..But still a fantastic card. Did you happen to nab a EVGA of XFX brand version?...I always stick with either EVGA or XFX if I go for nvidia..EVGA has the great step up program. But their warranty is limited compared to the XFX. I always prefer XFX as I can buy the card and have overclocking warranty as well. I can also sell the product and have the lifetime warranty transfer over to the new owner as well. makes it great for selling the card for 50-100 below retail before a new high end is released.....The new owner of the nvidia card would have a life time warranty which would make it a much more desirable purchase for him. As well as letting me get rid of the card quickly. This way I can also just plop down 150-250 dollars ontop of the cash to buy the new high end.

Regarding 3rd party drivers. I've used them before. some offer better performance. But they are pretty much all the same. A few frames here and there. It's sad to see though that you didn't enjoy the product for it's value. It's truly great. Kinda wish I read this thread and the other more thoroughly to notice the issue...you would of saved some cash and got a great card out of it. But it's no worries ^_^..You still got a 8800 GTX coming which is a extremely powerful card...Although more expensive...but definitely worth it. ^_^...enjoy!
October 13, 2007 6:47:09 AM

Lol lots of time on hands here guys. :p 
October 13, 2007 7:02:16 AM

daye159 said:
the HD2950s will beat the 8800gtx by alot i am getting 1 ill never buy any nvidia crap i removed all nvidia stuff from my pc


Wait a minute, the 2950's will beat the 8800GTX, but you don't have one yet. :heink:  Wonder how you know all this when you don't even have one. Stop smoking weed and don't believe the hype! Everyone in the PC market can not deny that the 8800GTX is the most powerful card on the market.

Some people will believe anything before a launch of a product.


October 13, 2007 8:16:02 AM

Kamrooz said:
If memory serves me right wasn't the 7900 GS the card you had before? Therefore it was the Nvidia drivers which weren't removed appropriately ^_^. Which would be an nvidia problem. But always keep driver cleaner on your system...It's a god send imo.


Kamrooz has said everythng I was going to say to justinmcg67. To sum up my experience, my editor had an 8800GTS 320 meg, but it wouldn't support playback on the second monitor using DirectX overlay, unlike the previous 1900XT, so when a reason came to build another computer I bought a 2900Pro and put it into the editor and the 8800 in the new system. Now I have overlay again, when a video is played or scrubbed in Premiere it replaces the desktop with fullscreen video on the second monitor. The 8800 is technically unable to do that, this makes the 2900 the better card. Plus I admit I play Oblivion, Oblivion runs better in the outdoors on the 2900 than it did on the 8800, that too is a point in favour of the 2900, and the image is gorgeous!

As for installation, I took out the 8800 and put in the 2900, I didn't use driver Cleaner Pro or anything, just installed the ATI card normally, and there were no problems at ALL. It's a new hardware ID, thus, supposedly the new drivers work with that ID as if the Nvidia never existed.

Finally, the 2900 overclocks perfectly with ATITool .27b.

So, to sum up, the 2900Pro is better for production video and HD, it plays at least Oblivion better than the 8800GTS, has sparkling game video with AA and HDR enabled where somehow the 8800 looked flat, it installed flawlessly, and costs less than the 8800 GTS. I wouldn't even get the 8800GTX despite faster gameplay (maybe!) because of lack of overlay support.

The first decent 3D card I ever got was an ATI Radeon 800, and oh what a step up from the Matrox Millenium! So I know how justinmcg67 feels about his first Radeon.. ;) 
October 13, 2007 12:08:42 PM

systemlord said:
Wait a minute, the 2950's will beat the 8800GTX, but you don't have one yet. :heink:  Wonder how you know all this when you don't even have one. Stop smoking weed and don't believe the hype! Everyone in the PC market can not deny that the 8800GTX is the most powerful card on the market.

Some people will believe anything before a launch of a product.

Actually the 8800ultra is, to be picky. rv670 isdnt targetting the 8800gtx anyway, but I expect it to be closer to the GTX then the r600 was, hell I expect even the R670pro to be better then r600 was.


October 13, 2007 12:45:56 PM

The hd2950 will likely whip the 8800 it does not have to go very far from the r600, maybe it will even take on the ultra, but how does that help us when the 9800 is here round the same time. Makes me sad...
October 13, 2007 12:55:14 PM

I dont think i can ever go ATI again. I remember taking the leap of faith and purchased the 9500PRo a few years back and the card ran good. That was until i had to update the drivers. The card simply would not allow itself to be updated. When i'd update the drivers i was getting memory issue (my PC was telling me i had none), my OpenGL got killed (games would tell me OpenGL not detected and would close), and the resolution would not go beyond 800 x 600 (seriously, come on). I tried driver after driver after driver and nothing would resolve it. I had to reinstall the original drivers that came with the card to get everything reset properly. The card simply would not update. Then it had the nerve to die on me a few months later. I went to the store, got me a 6600GT and apologized to Nvidia for cheating on her for those few months. In all my ATI cards i've owned i always hit bad driver issues at some point. Nvidia is just a more stable product and a great performer. Comparing Nvidia to ATI is like comparing Intel to AMD, NV/Intel are just kicking ATI/AMD's collective a$$es.
October 13, 2007 1:26:00 PM

the 2950s are just a die shrink of the 2900's for cooler running and cheaper producation. clocks might go up 25-50mhz but its still the same core arc just shrunk.... also im fairly sure the 9800's arent until next year. mid range 8700 and 8800gt are comin in october, and we might get a lets say 8900 or 8850 thats beats out the gtx but not a new arc.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/12/...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...
October 13, 2007 2:15:44 PM

I replaced my 7900gtx in sli for the hd2900pro.I oc'ed it at 740/830,and am very Haaaapy with it.I think its a PCIE-2 card.The hd2950 is far better than the hd2900xt by it be a directx 10.1 which means aa4 is standard where as the 2900xt has probs.I is lmited by 256bus.
October 13, 2007 4:47:22 PM

bwdsmart said:
the 2950s are just a die shrink of the 2900's for cooler running and cheaper producation. clocks might go up 25-50mhz but its still the same core arc just shrunk.... also im fairly sure the 9800's arent until next year. mid range 8700 and 8800gt are comin in october, and we might get a lets say 8900 or 8850 thats beats out the gtx but not a new arc.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/12/...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...



The 9800 is the 8800gt which is out at the end of October, this month. Its mid-range btu expected to perform aswell as the current 320mb 8800gts. but for a much cheaper price.

justinmcg6 7 im just pissed off with you for spreading a load of crap anyway. ATI makes the card yes bit its parteners ship it for sale to consumers. If you bought right from ATI then tahts your fault, if you didnt then its not ATI's fault. And if you think 2900pro is bad performance, a card msot people would love to have, then I suggest you take your head out of your rear end and go try using a 2600xt for gaming.
October 14, 2007 5:52:05 AM

Hatman said:
Actually the 8800ultra is, to be picky. rv670 isdnt targetting the 8800gtx anyway, but I expect it to be closer to the GTX then the r600 was, hell I expect even the R670pro to be better then r600 was.


To me the 8800 Ultra is really nothing more than a 8800GTX overclocked, so I don't even see the ultra as a different card.