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.Enermax Galaxy 1000W vs PC Power & Coolig 750W?

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October 3, 2007 5:11:51 PM

Hi Guys,

I've narrowed down my PSU search to 2 products: the .Enermax Galaxy 1000W EGX1000EWL ATX2.2 Modular PSU and the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad PCI-E 750W Power Supply.

Both are a bit off an overkill for what I need currently but do offer the stability and upgrade path options for the future, so happy to spend a bit more £ on the PSU. I may go SLI in the future and will probably try to o/c a quad-core CPU.

I'm going to be building my new system soon (1st time build for me - gulp!) and have read reviews that the Enermax 1000W, listed above, is great for first time builders as it's modular (I guess this just means that it'll be a 'tidier' build) + has great inbuilt safety features (power shut downs and analysis) in case I screw things up + is DXX compatible.

The PC P&C system has been recommended as having a solid, powerful single 12V Rail (60A!) and most people have recommended that a single powerful 12A rail is the way to go...


There is a BIG difference in price between the 2 units but, that aside, does anyone have any recommendations for a confused first-time builder? :) 

Many thanks for your help!

a b ) Power supply
October 3, 2007 5:24:29 PM

Silence 750 is a solid PSU , it supports even 2x8800GTX, i say go for it and save some money
October 3, 2007 5:36:07 PM

I agree with Maziar go with the PC P&C. I am wondering though if the system you are planning on putting this in is the same that is in your sig? If so then you are correct and both are overkill and the Silencer 610 which can be had from their site for $120 would be more than enough.
Related resources
October 3, 2007 5:41:23 PM

The 750w is very nice for a pontential Dual 8800GTX system.
More power than you will ever need.

Rumor has it that the next gen GPUs will take even less power.
Future CPUs should be using even less power.

So it if meets your needs today, it should not be a problem down the road. And the 750w easily will handle the load. Even the 610w may handle Dual 8800GTXs, but the 750w will give you plenty of spare power.
a b ) Power supply
October 3, 2007 5:53:19 PM

Another vote for the PC P&C 750. I have one, and I love it. It's got an 85% efficiency, it's quiet, very high quality, and it's cheaper than the Galaxy. The Enermax Galaxy is probably the best PSU ever, but you don't really need to go that far.
a c 137 ) Power supply
October 3, 2007 6:11:28 PM

Another vote for the PC P&C silencer 750.
I have the silencer 610. I ordered it direct from them at a substantial savings. I don't know if you can do the same. Also, when I called them, I had a question about a refurb unit they had. I got transferred immediately to a tech person who answered my question immediately. I later got a follow-up e-mail about the issue. For a first time builder, such excellent customer support is worth more than any fancy diagnostics.

Yes, modular is nice, particularly if you have a simple system. The more cables you will use, the less useful a modular unit becomes.

The 610 is SLI certified; do you really think you need more?

---good luck---
October 3, 2007 6:14:51 PM

I guess tucking a few cables out of the way is worth the £ difference :) 
The PC P&C should do nicely. Cheers.

Thanks for all your help guys.
October 3, 2007 6:43:32 PM

This is meant as a side note. You might also check out a Thermaltake Toughpower 750wt. It was rated as an equal to the PC P&C 750wt on Jonnyguru.com and offers the use of modular cables. I'd check pricing and availability of eiother the TT Toughpower 750wt and the PC P&C 6750wt. Either one should do well.

As said before, the Enermax Galaxy 1000wt is overkill.
October 3, 2007 6:50:31 PM

As an owner of the PC P&C 750, it is great!
a b ) Power supply
October 3, 2007 7:12:20 PM

sailer said:
This is meant as a side note. You might also check out a Thermaltake Toughpower 750wt. It was rated as an equal to the PC P&C 750wt on Jonnyguru.com and offers the use of modular cables. I'd check pricing and availability of eiother the TT Toughpower 750wt and the PC P&C 6750wt. Either one should do well.

As said before, the Enermax Galaxy 1000wt is overkill.


I've read a bunch of reviews for Toughpower PSUs (mostly the 850w). They're getting lots of praise indeed.

I was just wondering, when does the Enermax Galaxy 1000w make sense??? I mean, even for two 8800 GTX cards there are 750W or 850W PSUs that do the job perfectly. Who buys the Galaxy?
October 3, 2007 7:22:15 PM

aevm said:
I was just wondering, when does the Enermax Galaxy 1000w make sense??? I mean, even for two 8800 GTX cards there are 750W or 850W PSUs that do the job perfectly. Who buys the Galaxy?


People who over estimate their power needs and those that just want bragging rights mostly. I think a system with SLI a Quad, sound card w/ front panel a few optical drives, 4 gigs+ of RAM and about 10 hard drives might need a 1000w PSU.
October 4, 2007 5:42:48 AM

aevm said:
I was just wondering, when does the Enermax Galaxy 1000w make sense??? I mean, even for two 8800 GTX cards there are 750W or 850W PSUs that do the job perfectly. Who buys the Galaxy?


I suppose the guy who bought two 7950s and thought he could SLI them together. Or maybe someone who is overclocking a QFX and has SLI. Perhaps even someone who doesn't have the faintest idea of what a PSU calculator is for. I can't say for sure, but using the calculator, I figured the biggest PSU I could use if went I SLI again was 850wt. Maybe I'm just too practical. I don't want to part with money for power that I won't use.
October 4, 2007 6:04:12 AM

The Galaxy is not going to be overkill 1Q 2008, thats when NVidia & ATI will be releasing PCI-E 2.0 G-cards. Running in SLI using two PCI-E 2.0 cards will require upto 300W per card.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3245&Itemid=34

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3307&Itemid=34

Early 2008, GX2 like

Nvidia's next generation high end part will have two PCB cards. The card codenamed D8E or the one that we called G90 – G92 for months will be GX2 like. We wrote about such a card back in March when our Cuda sources confirmed that Nvidia has such a design in plans.

Desktop 8 series Enthusiast is scheduled for first months of 2008 and will need a lot of power. It is a 65 part, or lets say it will have two chips each 65 nanometre with its own memory. This will bring back the Quad SLI concept in the game.


If you don't trust us, ask Nvidia.

Even if you don't believe these links, isn't it better to be safe rather than sorry?
October 4, 2007 3:35:03 PM

systemlord said:
The Galaxy is not going to be overkill 1Q 2008, thats when NVidia & ATI will be releasing PCI-E 2.0 G-cards. Running in SLI using two PCI-E 2.0 cards will require upto 300W per card.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3245&Itemid=34

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3307&Itemid=34

Even if you don't believe these links, isn't it better to be safe rather than sorry?


First of all, Fudzilla has made enough errors in the past that I don't have the greatest trust in his reporting.

Second, as die shrinks occur, power usage generally goes down, not up.

Third, keep in mind that the 7950 was meant to be used as a single card, not in SLI. If Nvidia does make another dual card, it will probably be intended for use as a single card as well.

Forth, if you're going to use the premise of getting a huge PSU, why not just get a 1200wt PSU, or even larger if you find one? Its all too easy to get glassy eyed and get the biggest one in sight "Just in case its needed", but rarely are these monster PSUs really needed.

One time the Inquirer set up a SLI rig with a 500wt PSU to prove that it could be done. They admitted that they would have been more comfortable with at least a 650wt, but they made their point. The two most common problems I see with PSUs are either people who underestimate their needs, like having a 400wt PSU and wondering why their SLI rig doesn't work right, or people who vastly overestimate their needs and waste money. True, having too big a PSU won't hurt the machine, but it makes sure that the PSU isn't running at its most efficient power band and that you will thus burn a lot more electricity than needed.

For a point of comparison, I ran a calculator using a QFX FX74 rig, one of the biggest power hogs around, overclocked it, with two HD 2900 XT 1 gig cards in Crossfire, 4 sticks of ram, two hard drives, a Soundblaster with front bay, some fans and came up with a draw of 854wts. That's a ways down from needing a 1000wt PSU. If I change the processor and motherboard to an overclocked Intel QX6850 and keep the rest, the power draw drops to 759wts. That's a long way from 1000wt. In my opinion, there will be few people who really need more than a 850wt PSU, much less 1000wts of power.
a b ) Power supply
October 4, 2007 3:59:02 PM

---- as die shrinks occur, power usage generally goes down ----

Yes, per transistor. But if the new card has 7 zillion transistors then it will still consume as much electricity as a small country in Africa and it will still be huge. Oh well, I guess we'll see in November or whenever they release it.
October 4, 2007 4:11:22 PM

Point taken, increased number of transistors use more power. Still, I doubt there will be extreme power usage from the new cards. Otherwise we're going to have to wire in dedicated circuts for our computers and their monster PSUs one of these days. I hope and pray that sanity will intervene before things get that bad.
October 4, 2007 4:55:09 PM

No point in getting a 1kW PSU when all you need is 600W, but when it comes to power, it is better to have more than you need than not enough. There is no benefit to running a system right on the edge of the PSU's capacity. I'd go for a minimum of 20% overhead capacity, in general.

FWIW, I am also an owner of the PC P&C Silencer 750 Quad.

Altazi
October 4, 2007 5:20:23 PM

altazi said:
No point in getting a 1kW PSU when all you need is 600W, but when it comes to power, it is better to have more than you need than not enough. There is no benefit to running a system right on the edge of the PSU's capacity. I'd go for a minimum of 20% overhead capacity, in general.

FWIW, I am also an owner of the PC P&C Silencer 750 Quad.

Altazi


A good point. Most PSUs are rated as having max efficiency somewhere between 80-90% of their rated power. Given that, when I speced out an overclocked QX6850 with a bunch of other hardware at 759wts, a person might be best off with a 850wt to a 900wt (20% overhead) PSU, but that would be considering he was running max power at all times. In the hypothetical computer I made, I think a 850wt would be sufficient, this being that a person rarely uses max power draw. But that's my opinion.
October 4, 2007 5:53:11 PM

I have the enermax galaxy and am very happy with it. My system specs are:
intel core 2 extreme CPU
two watercooled 8800GTX's in SLI
two raptor HD's in raid + a 300GB backup drive
2GB of corsair 1111 DDR2 with active cooling
Watercooled system has two pumps and has both active and passive cooling (to reduce active fan noise)

I recently bought a kill-a-watt power monitor to figure out how much power my whole system actually uses.
It turns out that without overclocking and just sat at the desktop without running anything, its using about 400w at the wall. Thats before the power supply has dropped it to PC voltages. That figure goes up to 500w when the graphics are being fully exercised say when running 3dmark06.

You might conclude from that, that you don't need to ever consider anything more than a 500w PSU but that's not true. Here's why:
As soon as you start overclockng/overvolting, your power consumption goes up A LOT.
Also, power supplies are a lot more efficient (ie. waste less power so generate less heat) when you don't run them near their maximum rating.
Think of it this way: Say you already knew you were going on a long road trip and were going to drive at 100MPH. You have the choice between a big car with a V8 engine or a small car with a tiny 4 cyl. engine. Both could do 100Mph but the V8 is hardly working when the little 4 cyl. is screaming its guts out to go the same speed. Which do you think will last longer and which do you think will give smoother power delivery?
The relevance to computers is that the smoother your power source the better overclocking you will get, and you don't ever want to risk your PSU blowing up on you because it could voltage spike and trash other much more expensive components with it.
October 4, 2007 6:26:24 PM

I'm glad you're happy with your Galaxy 1000wt. I don't mean to say that the Galaxy is a bad PSU, by the way, only that it is rarely needed. As you point out, when you used the power monitor, you only use 500wt while running 3DMark06, an intensive benchmark to say the least. If a PSU ran most efficiently at 80% of its power rating, then a 600wt PSU would have done the job well enough.

Your comparison of the V8 verses 4 cylinder car engines is good to a point, but it should add an in between engine, like a V6. Then you wouldn't be wasting gas on the V8 nor tearing apart the 4. I say this a bit light heartedly since I personally own an older Plymouth with a 550hp V8 as a second car. Unless I'm on the race track, all that horsepower is literally wasted gas. Comparing those gas engines to PSUs, you could well have used a 750wt PSU and had both plenty of room for extra hardware and not had the expense the Galaxy.

Edit note: I checked with the charts on the Enermax Galaxy at JonnyGuru and found that the Enermax runs 80% or better efficiency between 325wt and 829wt, so efficiency wise, its pretty good, despite being so large.

Oh yes, for those who are curious, the car I drive the most is a Mustang Cobra that gets 28 MPG, yet can cruise all day at 100 MPH if I so choose. I usually don't go over 80 MPH, as the local highway patrol gets upset if I do that.
a b ) Power supply
October 4, 2007 6:33:27 PM

@niz:

Wow, that's a nice system you got there. I've emptied my bank account and still couldn't afford the second 8800 GTX, or the watercooling. :cry: 

About the PSU efficiency: here's the graph for the PC P&C 750W.
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3040&p=11


Between 400 and 500W means 53% to 67% of 750W. Based on the graph, it means 80% or better efficiency with the Silencer. If the Galaxy has a similar chart, then you're using it at 40% to 50% of its capacity, and that's exactly where the efficiency is maxed. I bet that's also over 80%. Nice job!
October 6, 2007 6:36:19 AM

sailer said:
First of all, Fudzilla has made enough errors in the past that I don't have the greatest trust in his reporting.

Second, as die shrinks occur, power usage generally goes down, not up.

Third, keep in mind that the 7950 was meant to be used as a single card, not in SLI. If Nvidia does make another dual card, it will probably be intended for use as a single card as well.

Forth, if you're going to use the premise of getting a huge PSU, why not just get a 1200wt PSU, or even larger if you find one? Its all too easy to get glassy eyed and get the biggest one in sight "Just in case its needed", but rarely are these monster PSUs really needed.

One time the Inquirer set up a SLI rig with a 500wt PSU to prove that it could be done. They admitted that they would have been more comfortable with at least a 650wt, but they made their point. The two most common problems I see with PSUs are either people who underestimate their needs, like having a 400wt PSU and wondering why their SLI rig doesn't work right, or people who vastly overestimate their needs and waste money. True, having too big a PSU won't hurt the machine, but it makes sure that the PSU isn't running at its most efficient power band and that you will thus burn a lot more electricity than needed.

For a point of comparison, I ran a calculator using a QFX FX74 rig, one of the biggest power hogs around, overclocked it, with two HD 2900 XT 1 gig cards in Crossfire, 4 sticks of ram, two hard drives, a Soundblaster with front bay, some fans and came up with a draw of 854wts. That's a ways down from needing a 1000wt PSU. If I change the processor and motherboard to an overclocked Intel QX6850 and keep the rest, the power draw drops to 759wts. That's a long way from 1000wt. In my opinion, there will be few people who really need more than a 850wt PSU, much less 1000wts of power.


I do agree with everything you have said, but with the future right around the corner (DX10.1) with hardware & software, you just never know anymore what NVidia, ATI and Intel are going to pull next. I chose to be on the safe side and go for a killer hungry PSU for just a little more money.

As for Fudzilla they have already removed some postings of info they have claim from there site, that tells me that they made a quess of what to expect and were wrong. :) 
October 6, 2007 7:55:13 AM

sailer said:
A good point. Most PSUs are rated as having max efficiency somewhere between 80-90% of their rated power.
Where did you hear that? Here is an excerpt from the developer_specs_PSU_DG_rev_1_1.pdf Page 30. I'm not saying that this is representative of all PSUs, but any PSU that I have seen has a much wider range than 80-90% of rated power, as aevm pointed out with the Silencer 750. Usually they start trailing off at that output, I think because of hysteresis losses.


October 6, 2007 3:19:20 PM

A couple things, I did say "Max", as in maximum, efficiency at 80-90% of power rating.

Second, and this is my fault, I'm too used to dealing with older PSUs that were not Energy Star compliant. That probably shows my age more than anything. But, as Aevm point out, the PC P&C does have a good power efficiency range, and that is one of the advertising points that PC P&C uses. In the PC P&C "Myths Exposed", they point out an Antec 550wt, for instance, that delivers only a 73% efficiency and that drops off dramatically as the temp rises. So this is the basis for my statement, outdated as it may be.

What you bring up points out the need for the buyer to make sure that a new PSU is Energy Star compliant and has a large efficiency range. There's a lot of PSUs sold that do not. Of course, that is part of the reason they get listed as tier 4 or 5 PSUs. This is also why reading reviews such as those done by Jonnyguru are so helpful in separating the wheat from the chaff. A long time ago, Tom's also did a PSU review which showed a lot of surprises. I know the mistake that can be made in buying a PSU that doesn't put out power as its advertised. I bought one of those once. Having made the mistake, I read independent reviews so I don't repeat it.
October 6, 2007 3:45:44 PM

28 mpg at 100mph? hahaha get a hold of your life! I have a 06 and at 100mph you'd be lucky to get 20 dumbass.
October 6, 2007 4:26:45 PM

ausch30 said:
People who over estimate their power needs and those that just want bragging rights mostly. I think a system with SLI a Quad, sound card w/ front panel a few optical drives, 4 gigs+ of RAM and about 10 hard drives might need a 1000w PSU.


Which is exactly the type of system I'm liable to build in a few years :)  Currently, I have 7 drives inside, a single video card, 2 DVD burners, a sound card, etc.

My goal is to build something with 3 video cards, likely Crossfire, to run 6 monitors off. So there are those of us out there that do require more than the average high end PSU.
October 6, 2007 4:33:13 PM

n8dogg said:
28 mpg at 100mph? hahaha get a hold of your life! I have a 06 and at 100mph you'd be lucky to get 20 dumbass.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

Quote:
Oh yes, for those who are curious, the car I drive the most is a Mustang Cobra that gets 28 MPG, yet can cruise all day at 100 MPH if I so choose. I usually don't go over 80 MPH, as the local highway patrol gets upset if I do that.

Statement 1
the car I drive the most is a Mustang Cobra that gets 28 MPG.
Statement 2
yet can cruise all day at 100 MPH if I so choose.

Nowhere did he say that he gets 28MPG at 100 MPH.

Before you leap on someone make sure you understand what they are saying, or you look like an idiot.
October 6, 2007 4:53:07 PM

sailer said:
A couple things, I did say "Max", as in maximum, efficiency at 80-90% of power rating.
I was just saying that most tier 1-3 have a wider "sweet spot" these days. I haven't really looked at the tier 4 and 5, because if you buy one of those...well...boom. I usually recommend Silencer® 610 EPS12V Power Supply It's only $119.99 from PC P&C, it has a single rail of 49A and no modular cables. I know everyone likes the clean case, but IMO it's not worth the extra resistance of the connection and potential failure point. The Silencer 750 is a nice PSU though, and depending on the load the extra 11A can certainly come in handy.

I found out a while ago that the HX520 and HX620 are really using a single rail even though they claim to be in compliance with the ATX12V standard, including on the sticker on the PSU. They do have cheesy ribbon cables that are modular, but at least they are single rail and made by Seasonic. Corsair really should accurately reflect the amperage on the PSU for those that want the safety of the 240VA max per rail.
October 6, 2007 5:03:04 PM

cpburns said:
My goal is to build something with 3 video cards, likely Crossfire, to run 6 monitors off. So there are those of us out there that do require more than the average high end PSU.
If you get that setup you will have to change you username from cpburns to pcburns :lol: . You will also have to run your AC all winter, or better yet, get an air plenum floor. :lol: 
!