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Anonymous
July 10, 2005 7:54:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand that,
even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere out in the
middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe out the FAT
table.

Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my WinXP
system? Thanks.


--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com

More about : linux windows

Anonymous
July 10, 2005 11:06:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Install VMWare Workstation 5.0 www.vmware.com . Then install Linux on that.
You can use it from within Windows XP to experiment and it will NOT alter
your hard drive partitions in any way.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from: George Ankner
"If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!"

"Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@general-net.com> wrote in message
news:o p.stpy8dtd3r2ov4@d9ns6561...
> I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
> Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand that,
> even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere out in the
> middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe out the FAT
> table.
>
> Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my WinXP
> system? Thanks.
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------
> Jeffrey Needle
> jeff.needle@gmail.com
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 11:06:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Thanks, I just looked at the page.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were some free disk partioning utility that
guaranteed it was partioning a blank part of the disk. Maybe I'm being
naive about this.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:06:45 -0700, Richard Urban [MVP]
<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Install VMWare Workstation 5.0 www.vmware.com . Then install Linux on
> that.
> You can use it from within Windows XP to experiment and it will NOT alter
> your hard drive partitions in any way.
>



--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
Related resources
July 11, 2005 6:57:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hello Jeff.

"Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@general-net.com> wrote in message
news:jeff.needle@general-net.com:
> I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
> Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand that,
>
> even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere out in the
> middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe out the FAT
> table.
>
> Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my WinXP
>
> system? Thanks.
>
>

There are a number of Linux "live distro's" that are complete operating
systems on CD. These can be run without making any alteration to your
hard disk. This would probably be a better solution for yourself if you
really don't want to dabble with altering partitions.

Personally I would convert your partitions to NTFS. This is a better
file system than FAT, and usually the default method used for installing
Windows XP.

Next you can use a utility like Partition Magic or Partition Expert to
alter the size of your current partition, or create a partition from any
available free space.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 9:22:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

> There are a number of Linux "live distro's" that are complete operating
> systems on CD. These can be run without making any alteration to your
> hard disk. This would probably be a better solution for yourself if you
> really don't want to dabble with altering partitions.
>
> Personally I would convert your partitions to NTFS. This is a better
> file system than FAT, and usually the default method used for installing
> Windows XP.
>


Hmmm, to tell the truth, my statement about FAT was based on an article I
read. I really don't know what the configuration of my system is. Is
there a way to find out? It may already be NTFS.


--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
July 11, 2005 12:01:08 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Jeff Needle wrote:

>> There are a number of Linux "live distro's" that are complete
>> operating systems on CD. These can be run without making any
>> alteration to your hard disk. This would probably be a better
>> solution for yourself if you really don't want to dabble with
>> altering partitions.
>>
>> Personally I would convert your partitions to NTFS. This is a better
>> file system than FAT, and usually the default method used for
>> installing Windows XP.
>>
>
>
> Hmmm, to tell the truth, my statement about FAT was based on an
> article I
> read. I really don't know what the configuration of my system is. Is
> there a way to find out? It may already be NTFS.
>
>
OK, based on your posts you definitely need to read up on using both
Windows and Linux. Your success in using *any* operating system well
depends on your willingness to learn. I'm not saying this to be
hurtful; just giving you a little friendly advice. You need to know
things like what are different file systems and how to tell what
hardware you've got. The best place to start learning is by using
Google. Newsgroups are also great, but be aware that the Linux groups
are far less forgiving of people who post without doing some research
first. See what Linux newsgroups are on your ISP's news server and
subscribe to a few. Lurk for a long time before posting.

I would suggest you get one of the live distros like Knoppix - and
either have them send you a cd or have a friend with broadband and the
proper burning program get it for you - and just play. Don't worry
about saving documents, etc. Then if you decide you want to dual-boot
with some Linux distro, do some research about the different ones and
pick something you think will work for you. A good disk partitioning
strategy for a dual-boot system with XP is something like this (I'm
leaving off the cd drives for simplicity):

C:\ - XP formatted NTFS (Linux hda1)
D:\ - small FAT32 partition for shared data between the two OS's (Linux
hda2)
hdb1 - second hard drive for Linux formatted in Reiser or ext3 with /
files on it
hdb2 - separate partition on second drive for /home

Have a lot of fun,

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 1:44:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:22:58 -0700, Jeff Needle wrote:

>
> Hmmm, to tell the truth, my statement about FAT was based on an article I
> read. I really don't know what the configuration of my system is. Is
> there a way to find out? It may already be NTFS.

Right click on the icon for any drive in Windows Explorer and choose
Properties. The file system will be noted in the properties sheets.
--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
July 11, 2005 3:18:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Jeff Needle wrote:
> I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
> Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand
> that, even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere out
> in the middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe out
> the FAT table.
>
> Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my
> WinXP system? Thanks.
>
>
In my limited experience. I installed a separate physical drive and
installed Linux on that. That way you don't interfere with your present
Windows.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 3:18:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:18:27 -0700, KG <music@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Jeff Needle wrote:
>> I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
>> Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand
>> that, even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere out
>> in the middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe out
>> the FAT table.
>> Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my
>> WinXP system? Thanks.
>>
> In my limited experience. I installed a separate physical drive and
> installed Linux on that. That way you don't interfere with your present
> Windows.


I may have to do that.

Thanks.


--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
July 11, 2005 3:18:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Jeff Needle wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:18:27 -0700, KG <music@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Needle wrote:
>>> I'm toying with installing Linux in a partition on my WinXP system.
>>> Partitioning the disk makes me VERY nervous. I'm led to understand
>>> that, even after defragging my disk, FAT entries remain somewhere
>>> out
>>> in the middle of the platter, and partioning the disk could wipe
>>> out
>>> the FAT table.
>>> Any insights on this? Any safe way to experiment with Linux on my
>>> WinXP system? Thanks.
>>>
>> In my limited experience. I installed a separate physical drive and
>> installed Linux on that. That way you don't interfere with your
>> present Windows.
>
>
> I may have to do that.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Or if you just want to play and experience Linux for free, download
Knoppix. Knoppix is a Linux distro that runs from cd. You can boot with
it, surf, write letters, mess around, and nothing will get written to
your hard drive. When you're tired of it, take the cd out of the drive
(go through the shutdown sequence first) and you'll have your Windows
intact. To get Knoppix, go to www.knoppix.net. You will need a fast
Internet connection to download it because it is big (~700MB) and
third-party burning software to burn the .iso. If you don't have
broadband (or a nice friend who does), the Knoppix people will send you
a disk for a small fee.

If you do decide you want to dual-boot, while I've never heard of the
partition issue you mentioned and I've dual-booted a lot, just buy
another hard drive. You can buy a 40GB one for around $50usd or even
less sometimes.

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 3:18:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

>>
> Or if you just want to play and experience Linux for free, download
> Knoppix. Knoppix is a Linux distro that runs from cd. You can boot with
> it, surf, write letters, mess around, and nothing will get written to
> your hard drive. When you're tired of it, take the cd out of the drive
> (go through the shutdown sequence first) and you'll have your Windows
> intact. To get Knoppix, go to www.knoppix.net. You will need a fast
> Internet connection to download it because it is big (~700MB) and
> third-party burning software to burn the .iso. If you don't have
> broadband (or a nice friend who does), the Knoppix people will send you
> a disk for a small fee.
>
> If you do decide you want to dual-boot, while I've never heard of the
> partition issue you mentioned and I've dual-booted a lot, just buy
> another hard drive. You can buy a 40GB one for around $50usd or even
> less sometimes.
>
> Malke


Yeah, the download would be impossible. I may just order the CD. I found
a similar CD in a book for 30 bucks at Borders the other day, but decided
not to purchase it.

On the issue of Knoppix, you say it won't save anything to the hard
drive. Does that mean I can't save documents I've created in the Linux
environment?

Thanks.





--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 5:19:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:44:50 -0700, Sharon F <sharonfDEL@ETEmvps.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:22:58 -0700, Jeff Needle wrote:
>
>>
>> Hmmm, to tell the truth, my statement about FAT was based on an article
>> I
>> read. I really don't know what the configuration of my system is. Is
>> there a way to find out? It may already be NTFS.
>
> Right click on the icon for any drive in Windows Explorer and choose
> Properties. The file system will be noted in the properties sheets.


Aha! Shows NTFS.

Thanks!


--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 5:23:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:01:08 -0700, Malke <invalid@not-real.com> wrote:

> Jeff Needle wrote:
>
>>> There are a number of Linux "live distro's" that are complete
>>> operating systems on CD. These can be run without making any
>>> alteration to your hard disk. This would probably be a better
>>> solution for yourself if you really don't want to dabble with
>>> altering partitions.
>>>
>>> Personally I would convert your partitions to NTFS. This is a better
>>> file system than FAT, and usually the default method used for
>>> installing Windows XP.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm, to tell the truth, my statement about FAT was based on an
>> article I
>> read. I really don't know what the configuration of my system is. Is
>> there a way to find out? It may already be NTFS.
>>
>>
> OK, based on your posts you definitely need to read up on using both
> Windows and Linux. Your success in using *any* operating system well
> depends on your willingness to learn. I'm not saying this to be
> hurtful; just giving you a little friendly advice. You need to know
> things like what are different file systems and how to tell what
> hardware you've got.


Sigh, yes you're right.

A little background, perhaps. My computing days began in back when folks
were carrying decks of punchcards across college campuses. I taught
Basic, Fortran, Cobol, etc., for years, and actually programmed an
accounting system in a hybrid of Business Basic.

Now I'm an old fart, and I've survived without having to learn all the new
stuff. I've had so many other things to occupy me. In 1999 I became
disabled and had to stop work. During this time, I've tried to pick up on
all the new technologies, but can't get a handle on it.

My biggest problem is trying to link current ideas with the old ones.
Heck, I used to program on old Apple II computers with CP/M cards in
them. Yeah, I'M OLD!!! <grin>



The best place to start learning is by using
> Google. Newsgroups are also great, but be aware that the Linux groups
> are far less forgiving of people who post without doing some research
> first. See what Linux newsgroups are on your ISP's news server and
> subscribe to a few. Lurk for a long time before posting.
>
> I would suggest you get one of the live distros like Knoppix - and
> either have them send you a cd or have a friend with broadband and the
> proper burning program get it for you - and just play. Don't worry
> about saving documents, etc. Then if you decide you want to dual-boot
> with some Linux distro, do some research about the different ones and
> pick something you think will work for you. A good disk partitioning
> strategy for a dual-boot system with XP is something like this (I'm
> leaving off the cd drives for simplicity):
>
> C:\ - XP formatted NTFS (Linux hda1)
> D:\ - small FAT32 partition for shared data between the two OS's (Linux
> hda2)
> hdb1 - second hard drive for Linux formatted in Reiser or ext3 with /
> files on it
> hdb2 - separate partition on second drive for /home
>
> Have a lot of fun,
>
> Malke


Thanks for all the good advice. I agree, I have a lot to learn. I've
just recently upgraded from Win98 to XP. Sheesh.



--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
July 11, 2005 5:31:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@general-net.com> wrote in message
news:o p.stq0l8ol3r2ov4@d9ns6561...

> Yeah, the download would be impossible. I may just order the CD. I found
> a similar CD in a book for 30 bucks at Borders the other day, but decided
> not to purchase it.

Quite often these distros get on the cover CDs of magazines - it's worth
looking at those

>
> On the issue of Knoppix, you say it won't save anything to the hard
> drive. Does that mean I can't save documents I've created in the Linux
> environment?
>

You can, as long as you have a partition that Linux can natively read and
write to - unfortunately NTFS tends to be read-only to Linux without
installing a tool. So if you have a FAT partition, Linux can save documents
to it.
July 11, 2005 7:31:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Jeff Needle wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:01:08 -0700, Malke <invalid@not-real.com>
> wrote:

>> OK, based on your posts you definitely need to read up on using both
>> Windows and Linux. Your success in using *any* operating system well
>> depends on your willingness to learn. I'm not saying this to be
>> hurtful; just giving you a little friendly advice. You need to know
>> things like what are different file systems and how to tell what
>> hardware you've got.
>
>
> Sigh, yes you're right.
>
> A little background, perhaps. My computing days began in back when
> folks
> were carrying decks of punchcards across college campuses. I taught
> Basic, Fortran, Cobol, etc., for years, and actually programmed an
> accounting system in a hybrid of Business Basic.
>
> Now I'm an old fart, and I've survived without having to learn all the
> new
> stuff. I've had so many other things to occupy me. In 1999 I became
> disabled and had to stop work. During this time, I've tried to pick
> up on all the new technologies, but can't get a handle on it.
>
> My biggest problem is trying to link current ideas with the old ones.
> Heck, I used to program on old Apple II computers with CP/M cards in
> them. Yeah, I'M OLD!!! <grin>
>
> Thanks for all the good advice. I agree, I have a lot to learn. I've
> just recently upgraded from Win98 to XP. Sheesh.

No reason to be discouraged. Learning is fun! Seriously, age is only in
your mind. I have clients in their 80's who just got their first
computers and who are having a great time playing in the digital world.
One man is writing his memoirs and another of my elderly ladies bought
herself a digital camera and is having a blast with it.

Take things a little at a time. It's like the old question, "How do you
eat an elephant?" The answer is, "One bite at a time".

Pick a few projects that sound interesting to you and work on one of
them. Have fun while doing so!

Best regards,

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 10:40:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

> No reason to be discouraged. Learning is fun! Seriously, age is only in
> your mind. I have clients in their 80's who just got their first
> computers and who are having a great time playing in the digital world.
> One man is writing his memoirs and another of my elderly ladies bought
> herself a digital camera and is having a blast with it.
>
> Take things a little at a time. It's like the old question, "How do you
> eat an elephant?" The answer is, "One bite at a time".
>
> Pick a few projects that sound interesting to you and work on one of
> them. Have fun while doing so!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Malke


Ah, encouraging words! I appreciate them.

A friend fired up Partition Magic on my computer to see if it will meet my
needs. Oy, I get a message that PM has a problem with XP and may not
work. I'm going to call them tomorrow and get some details.

Thanks so much.


--
--------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com
July 12, 2005 11:30:52 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Jeff Needle wrote:

>
> Ah, encouraging words! I appreciate them.
>
> A friend fired up Partition Magic on my computer to see if it will
> meet my
> needs. Oy, I get a message that PM has a problem with XP and may not
> work. I'm going to call them tomorrow and get some details.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
Your friend's copy of Partition Magic must be an old one. Newer versions
of PM work fine. You can also look at BootITng, although it is far
geekier to use than PM. You can d/l a trial version which is fully
functional and just use it once.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
!