PCIe 2.0 using only 1 video card, is it faster?

[ginbong46]

according to the X38 article on toms this is the new specs of PCIe 2.0:

" PCI-Express 2.0

Where PCI Express is concerned, the X38 has an advantage over all of its competitors: it is the first chipset to support the PCI Express 2.0 standard. However, this only applies to the two x16 PCIe slots - the four x1 slots and the single x4 slot are attached to the South Bridge of the ICH9 and are therefore still limited to PCI Express 1.

With PCI Express 2.0, the frequency of the serial pathways doubles from 2.5 GHz to 5 GHz, giving each PCIe lane a 500 MB/s transfer rate. This is true not only for the graphics card, but any component that uses the new interface, be it a network controller or a sound card.

By the time cards appear that are actually able to utilize this bandwidth, Intel will probably already have introduced newer chipsets. Thus, at this point the PCI Express 2.0 interface is a nice addition, but doesn't really contribute to future proofing the board per se. "


does this mean even 1 video card by itself not in crossfire mode is also faster than in a PCIe slot in a P35 mobo?..

the reason i am asking is because i do not know the specs of the old PCIe slots..

thanks to anyone who replies

 

[Maziar]

I think u worry alot about PCI-E 2.0 and also future hardware

 

[ginbong46]

probably if your rich and can be throwing 3 grand away every year then you dont have to worry..

but some people who dont have deep pockets need to worry =)

 

[Maziar]

i amd not righ and that confic u see in my sig , i have saved my money for 3-4 years and after that i bought my "Dream RIG " , its awsome and good and i am SURE it will fine for a 1-2(or more ) years
i upgrade from a P4 and FX5700 graphic

 

[ginbong46]

i ddnt actually mean you dude, i meant everyone who are rich..

anyway its offtopic..

the reason i am asking this is because if THERE IS a speed increase in the slots and the the NEW GEN cards like 2950PRO come out..

then i am screwed with my P35 board..

that is all

 

[geofelt]

Not to worry. No current cards can push the limits of the current pcie 1.0. No new cards will REQUIRE the use of pcie-2.0, or they would not sell very many. I doubt that new cards will exceed the limits of the current pcie-1.0, either. By the time VGA cards can exceed pcie-1.0 capabilities, I expect X38 and lesser mobo's to be obsolete.

 

[systemlord]

Its just like the new 8Pin CPU power connector, its there but you don't have to use an 8Pin to overclock your CPU. My mobo has an 8Pin CPU power connector but at first I wasen't using it with my OC of 3.6GHz (E6600) because my older PSU didn't have the 8Pin plug it had the 4Pin plug.

When I upgraded my PSU it had the 8Pin plug so I used it and didn't notice any difference. Its there for future Quad core processers. It will be sometime before the PCI-E 2.0 is utilised, but when the time comes the PCI-E 2.0 slots will already be there just waiting to be used. Some mobo's have them now, these mobo's will be outdated by the time Graphics cards start to use it.

 

[ginbong46]

well apprently on nov 19 the 2950PRO GPU will be released:

825MHz GPU frequency
2.4GHZ memory clock speed
512MB GDDR4 graphics memory

and it said the new card WILL support PCIe 2.0 meaning it will support the faster slot speed?..

that is what i want to confirm

 

[ginbong46]

sources for the 2950PRO:

http://www.pclaunches.com/graphic_cards/amd_to_launch_ati_radeon_hd_2950pro_rv670_graphics_card_in_november.php
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20071001PD211.html

 

[geofelt]

Until actual launch, you can't count on anything.

What I guess it means is that the card will work in both the new slot, or the old slot. I also think that the performance will be identical if installed in either type of slot. I have no inside knowledge of this, but all new products that I can remember with this type of issue have been able to work both ways with no real performance difference.

 

[ginbong46]

well i guess maziar is right, i should just stop worrying lol

 

[4745454b]

I am starting to see this more and more, I don't understand how people can think this way...

INCREASING THE SPEED OF A BUS DOES NOT INCREASE THE SPEED OF THE DEVICE!

Its just like when they brought out SATA. Harddrives just now are able to hit 80MBps, which would still fit in the PATA specs. (ATA100/133) We are just now being able to hit the bandwidth provided by AGP, PCIe has been out how long? (Long enough to get to version 2)

Think of it this way. The bus is a road. All roads have speed limts, so the size of the bus equals the speed limit for the road. Any device plugged into the bus is a vehicle on the road. In this case, the PCIe 1 bus is a nice four lane highway, with a speed limit of 70MPH. The problem is that no device can hit that speed, so you are either a bicyclist, or riding some other slow form of transportation. What happens if you get put on the autobahn, or the speed limit is changed to 140MPH? Nothing, you are still limited by how fast you can petal. Just because you are using SATA, or PCIe 2, it doesn't matter. You will still be held back by the slower device plugged into it. These things are being brought out not because they are needed now, but because they will be needed in the future.

 

[ginbong46]

well let us say that PCIe 1.0 is 70MPH

and the 2950PRO card from AMD/ATI is PCIe 2.0 at 90MPH its not reaching 140MPH yet, but it would be a waste to put in a PCIe 1.0 slot going at a slower 70MPH..

you get my point? that is the whole reason i am asking and you answered it perfectly

buttom line is. if you are waiting for a PCIe 2.0 for example the 2950PRO card to come out; then X38 is the way to go. or am i still wrong?!

 

[systemlord]

It said the new card WILL support PCIe 2.0 meaning it will support the faster slot speed?..

The new 2950 Pro WILL support the PCI-E 2.0, but WILL not be able to use the extra bandwidth. It will not use the faster PCI-E 2.0 bus though, if it did it would beat the 8800 GTX for 249.99 and that won't happen.

 

[ginbong46]

uhm the 2950PRO should be faster than even the ultra with these supposed specs:

825MHz GPU frequency
2.4GHZ memory clock speed
512MB GDDR4 graphics memory

compared to the ultra:

612MHZ GPU frequency
2.16GHZ memory clock
768DDR3

and i doubt they will be 249.99 xD
my guess would be $400+ with those sort of speeds

 

[michiganteddybear]

basically what needs to be said is that we are NOT yet bottlenecked at the PCI-E buss.. other parts of the system yes, but NOT the PCI-E buss.

the 2.0 stuff will be ready for when the other stuff can keep up.

Also, since we are not yet able to fully saturate the 1.0 buss (assuming 16 lanes), we are still able to saturate the GPU itself, in some cases.


if you plan on keeping the mobo or vid card for a few years, then you could go 2.0, but I would not use the increased bandwidth as a reason to spend extra $$ right now, as nothing can use it yet

 

[ausch30]

well let us say that PCIe 1.0 is 70MPH

and the 2950PRO card from AMD/ATI is PCIe 2.0 at 90MPH its not reaching 140MPH yet, but it would be a waste to put in a PCIe 1.0 slot going at a slower 70MPH..

you get my point? that is the whole reason i am asking and you answered it perfectly

buttom line is. if you are waiting for a PCIe 2.0 for example the 2950PRO card to come out; then X38 is the way to go. or am i still wrong?!

The difference in the PCI-E 2 cards won't be so much in their interface speed because they won't be able to use up the bandwidth of PCI-E 1, it will be in how they handle power. The PCI-E 2 standard allows for more power to be supplied by the socket which will decrease the amount of additional power connectors needed. I would imagine that since the two sockets are compatible that cards will still have connectors for a PCI-E power cable or two depending on the card but if it has 2 connectors and you are using a PCI-E 2 slot you might only have to use 1 cable.

As others have said, the 8800GTX is the first card to have surpassed the bandwidth of the AGP slot and Raptors still use the SATA 1.5 interface because even though we have PCI-E 1 and now 2 and SATA 3 the hardware isn't close to using all the bandwidth available.

 

[ginbong46]

okay i understand, but I AM aiming TO BUY a NEXT GEN card.. especially with the news of the 2950PRO supposedly coming out in november 19.

and i will buy the 2600XT as a temporary card for 1-2months..

and if you were in my shoes it would be best to get the X38 right?

because we will never know, the NEXT GEN cards MIGHT surpass PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth right?

anymore thoughts on this please?..

 

[systemlord]

okay i understand, but I AM aiming TO BUY a NEXT GEN card.. especially with the news of the 2950PRO supposedly coming out in november 19.

and i will buy the 2600XT as a temporary card for 1-2months..

and if you were in my shoes it would be best to get the X38 right?

because we will never know, the NEXT GEN cards MIGHT surpass PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth right?

anymore thoughts on this please?..

Are you in need of a new computer right now then yes, but if you just bought a new computer then no don't get X38.

 

[geofelt]

It sounds like you have the itch.

In your shoes(minus the itch) I would look for the lowest cost P35 board that has the features you need.
Not only will you save a few bucks which you can apply toward something else like cpu or vga card, but you will get a mobo that has had lots of the early glitches worked out of it. The X38 boards are very new, and the chipset has already been withdrawn for revisions that are hopefully fixed. The chipset makes virtually no difference in application performance, compared to the cpu. I would be surprised at more than a 2% difference in real application(vs. synthetic benchmark) performance. The X38 is not future-proof. It will not run the nehalem processors due out in a year. If you are into aggressive overclocking, then, maybe the X38 is ok.

As to the vga card, You never get your money back on a temporary card, particularly when there is an improved card on the horizon. I would wait a week, at least to see what the 8800GT looks like. If you can't wait, at least get an EVGA card and plan on using their step-up program.

 

[michiganteddybear]

okay i understand, but I AM aiming TO BUY a NEXT GEN card.. especially with the news of the 2950PRO supposedly coming out in november 19.

and i will buy the 2600XT as a temporary card for 1-2months..

and if you were in my shoes it would be best to get the X38 right?

because we will never know, the NEXT GEN cards MIGHT surpass PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth right?

anymore thoughts on this please?..

its not the CARDS that are limiting the bandwidth now. its the rest of the system. right now, we cant consistantly fill a 16x 1.0 slot. yes, in bursts we can, and some testing setups (NOT what you can test with via commonly avail software).

if you must get a next gen card, I would do so, and wait on the next gen mobo until we have more options avail.

 

[ginbong46]

well i will be making a pc on nov 7, i have ordered the 2gig 800mhz ram, case, heat sink and fan.. i will buy the PSU, mobo, dvd sata driveand video card on the 7th..

so i will buy a reasonably cheap $135 2600XT card for now and wait for the NEXT GEN's..

that is why i am contemplating on buying the X38 chipset becoz i am going to wait for the NEXT GEN cards 100% sure

 

[drysocks]

okay i understand, but I AM aiming TO BUY a NEXT GEN card.. especially with the news of the 2950PRO supposedly coming out in november 19.

and i will buy the 2600XT as a temporary card for 1-2months..

and if you were in my shoes it would be best to get the X38 right?

because we will never know, the NEXT GEN cards MIGHT surpass PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth right?

anymore thoughts on this please?..

My thoughts?
-Clearly, you understand what is written on this board.
-We are not in your shoes. Your leading the question. People told you what they would do.
-I'm not sure what you're looking for. Peoples approval of what you want to do?

Go for it! And come back and tell us how it worked out for you.

 

[ginbong46]

It sounds like you have the itch.

In your shoes(minus the itch) I would look for the lowest cost P35 board that has the features you need.
Not only will you save a few bucks which you can apply toward something else like cpu or vga card, but you will get a mobo that has had lots of the early glitches worked out of it. The X38 boards are very new, and the chipset has already been withdrawn for revisions that are hopefully fixed. The chipset makes virtually no difference in application performance, compared to the cpu. I would be surprised at more than a 2% difference in real application(vs. synthetic benchmark) performance. The X38 is not future-proof. It will not run the nehalem processors due out in a year. If you are into aggressive overclocking, then, maybe the X38 is ok.

As to the vga card, You never get your money back on a temporary card, particularly when there is an improved card on the horizon. I would wait a week, at least to see what the 8800GT looks like. If you can't wait, at least get an EVGA card and plan on using their step-up program.

i have decided on the ASUS Maximus Formula if ever i will get the X38, money is not a problem as i have been saving for half a year now..

my current pc was bought in feb '04 and its getting old. i bought the asus 9600xt and the amd athlon 2500+ with corsair 512mb ddr 400mhz value ram

now i want something different, i am not prepared to spend $700 on a 11month old GTX.

i would like to spend $700-900 on a card that is 2weeks-1month old, not a aged GTX

that is my primary reason for waiting for the NEXT GEN's

so the practical solution would be the X38 with DDR2 ram right?.. considering im waiting for the next gen's and i doubt ASUS would release a bugged up board.. that would not help their reputation..

or am i wrong once again?...

 

[ginbong46]

My thoughts?
-Clearly, you understand what is written on this board.
-We are not in your shoes. Your leading the question. People told you what they would do.
-I'm not sure what you're looking for. Peoples approval of what you want to do?

Go for it! And come back and tell us how it worked out for you.

yeah kind of just wanting other people's opinions and i am explaining my reason for asking about the PCI-E 2.0 slot so much