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Q6600 on Dry Ice -- FSB: 480, CPU: 4.32GHz -- Updated with pics.

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January 6, 2008 2:00:34 AM

Here's the deal. I won't give all the specifics except my goal is to overclock a G0 Q6600.


Currently I can't justify the means so I need your help to guarantee a 4.3GHz-4.5GHz overclock.

So in reality, the biggest concern is how much is this G0 Q6600 going to hold me back? My dream would be to make this a reality with a Q9650, but we all know that's a ridiculous price to pay (after reviewing my pay check and bank accounts). So let's not talk about the Penryn :>

I have actually dug up a lot of information and for those who are interested in what I'm attempting...here's a decent forum thread from another site I found...

http://forums.legitreviews.com/about6289.html



FINAL OVERCLOCK:

FSB-480
CPU-4320MHz, 1.74V













































January 6, 2008 2:07:01 AM

Process:

1) Buy the crap...gigabyte DQ6? I'm leaning towards the P35. I like DDR2 and the performance difference vs. DDR3 seems marginal at best.

--I purchased a...

Q6600; L734B275 w/ VID of 1.275
Gigabyte X38-DS4
Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500 @ 2.2V

2) Build the heatsink that holds the Acetone and Dry Ice (refer to link in original post).

--Type L Hardened Copper @ 12" w/copper cap. Found it at local plumbing supply and Brazed by local HVAC company. I placed a 4"x4" conduit cover plate on the top of the copper pipe and secured it to a bottom plate using wing nuts and 8-32 threaded rod cut to about 13".

3) Use a chemical to seal the front and back of the mobo. but what to use?

--Used Duct seal putty~$2. Any gel would probably do fine but I was a little paranoid as it was my first try at DIY extreme cooling. The putty was placed as shown in above pics...around the CPU socket and surrounding areas. **NOTE** It doesn't remove very well from the board ;) 

4) Apply neoprene cut outs to socket and surrounding areas as needed.

--Used one neoprene square on the underside of the mobo as shown in the photos above. I utilized a back plate from a Thermalright Ultima 90 to secure it.

5) Bring it all together :) 

6) Post pictures, results, etc.


Feel free to PM me or for amendments as I'm going to see about creating a concise but detailed report as to my experience IF I choose to go through with this.
January 6, 2008 2:16:31 AM

Are you trying to set a record or something? Or you're doing this for fun?

Whatever it may be, you may need to go through more than one cpu, since they all Oc differently.
January 6, 2008 2:28:28 AM

Well...I guess you could say both.

It started out with noticing the gigabyte competition. Suddenly my dreams of peltiers were flashing in front of me. Then I realized that the TDP of the Q6600 was too high for the 226W Peltier I found.

Doing the math shows that the Peltier would become far too inefficient and that water cooling without the Peltier would probably turn out better.

Then I realized that at my local wally world we had dry ice. So I began thumbing through the internetz for ideas as to how to assemble the heatsink.

Now I'm at the conclusion you brought up. This could turn out to be a bit pricey as I might have to go through several CPU's. The only CPU that seems to qualify for this request would be the Q9650. However, that's not really an option if we compare it with my bank accounts n' such. :>

So bottom line. I want to blow the hell out of a Q6600 with a little help from some voltage and dry ice...but not unless I can reach some mid-level 4+GHz overclocks. But after reviewing information for the Q6600 it seems that I might be running into a 'switching' wall. I'm not so sure the 65nm Quad core process is binning well enough to give me a guaranteed 4+ GHz using Dry ice.
January 6, 2008 11:04:06 AM

Most Q6600's can go past 4ghz with enough volts.
January 6, 2008 12:09:50 PM

if you have the money get a good phase change cooler
January 6, 2008 3:52:52 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
3) Use a chemical to seal the front and back of the mobo. but what to use?

4) Apply neoprene cut outs to socket and surrounding areas as needed.


things i've used at work to keep electronic parts dry -
* epoxy soldermask
* conformal coat, silicone & non-silicone
* potting. another word for encapsulation

if you can keep condensation off the motherboard
using neoprene & other sealing materials (another
example - a connector made by a company named
Airborne that i've used at work had a rubber gasket
that went between the male & female parts. kept
water out real good. very important at 12,000 volts ! :pt1cable: 

Evilonigiri said:
Whatever it may be, you may need to go through more than one cpu, since they all Oc differently.


to keep the GF happy, minimizing the appearance of
expenditures is important. or maybe spring on a nice
piece of jewelry, so that when you buy a second G0
and a second motherboard, and maybe then some
different RAM, she won't be so upset. once my GF
got real upset because i paid $600 for an o'scope
on the spur of the moment.
January 6, 2008 6:04:58 PM

deranged said:
if you have the money get a good phase change cooler



That would be stellar.

However...I was looking at those and they go for about $900 or $600 USD used. That's not something I could justify. It seems like a lot of kids are able to hit about 3.8 with their Q6600 on air coolers though. I might just take the plunge.

Maybe I'll look around these forums and see if I can find a DD 4401 kit. Then I'll see if I can find a higher rated peltier since they're cheap. The 226W was about 38 USD. I have a 750W PCP&C that isn't doing much with my current configuration so maybe I should stretch its legs.
January 6, 2008 6:08:16 PM

HOLY CRAP!!!...I got some ideas for sealing the motherboard against condensation.

I could use hair spray, egg whites w/sugar (to make it like a hard candy so it's easier to clean up)....or *drum roll*...submerge it in cooking oil?

What do you guys think? I know they're cheap but looking at Ravio's suggestion these things came to mind.

I was hoping I could find a some type of spray on lacker coating or something rather, but the cooking oil sounds easiest and full proof without having to worry about covering up sockets or slots.
January 6, 2008 7:51:50 PM

The more I think about it...the more I believe I'm getting carried away.

I bet insulating the underside of the motherboard with neoprene surrounding the socket should suffice the need. I'm also going to throw in some non-conductive gel inside the actual socket.

I think this project is gonna be a go.
January 7, 2008 3:59:03 AM

As a MoBo of choice I would suggest DFI LP P35-T2R, Asus Maximus Formula, Foxconn MARS.
About the preserve from condensation there are a lot of threads at vr-zone.com and xtremesystems.org ;) 
January 8, 2008 1:29:06 AM

Dielectric Silicon Gel.
January 8, 2008 1:40:57 AM

*writing down*
January 8, 2008 1:51:45 AM

I was kinda hoping for something cool and inspirational such as...

I can't think of any good one liners so you fill in the blank. I found a website I'm purchasing some of that from.

I had planned to use my thermalright backplate filled with that Gel and add some into the socket for good measure. I was also going to apply it around the exposed base of the fab-O-lous d'ice I was putting together. I'll give screen shots as I prep it for some silver soldering. I got it for about 22 bucks at a plumbing store, but I couldn't find type K...only M-copper.
January 13, 2008 8:54:06 AM

alright...all done with the project kids. I'll update the info as it's convenient for me. I'm a little disappointed.

Final Overclock:

FSB-484
CPU-4.32GHz
Voltage-1.74
January 13, 2008 10:14:25 PM

Alright...I'll see what I can do to post pictures for everybody...I'll try to have it up shortly. I don't know if anybody is interested or not but I figured I could at least share my experience.
January 13, 2008 10:15:32 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
Alright...I'll see what I can do to post pictures for everybody...I'll try to have it up shortly. I don't know if anybody is interested or not but I figured I could at least share my experience.



I take it it went ok though. No damage.
January 13, 2008 10:25:59 PM

Wow, 1.74v.

Mind telling us how it performs? Like 3dmark06?
January 13, 2008 10:37:51 PM

Evilonigiri said:
Wow, 1.74v.

Mind telling us how it performs? Like 3dmark06?


nah...no damage. I was pissed though.

I'm confused about my temperatures. If my temps in windows are correct, between 2C and -8C, then it's a good overclock. If they're wrong...then I suck :) 

Because temps should have been around -30 or -40. If that were the case I should be able to hit 4.5GHz.

Sorry about the pictures...I'm working on those now.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=4675104

Obviously my 3DMark isn't patched correctly as the score isn't representative of the calculated numbers.
January 13, 2008 10:42:18 PM

cnumartyr said:
I take it it went ok though. No damage.


I really don't feel like posting all the pictures here in the forum so tell me if this link works ok for you...it should allow you to browse my photos on image shack.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/i800c0lect/
January 13, 2008 10:45:15 PM

I believe where I made my error(huge mistake) was not realizing how quickly the acetone would dissipate...so I added way too much ;) 

You can see that in one of the photos as bubbling acetone nearly reaches the top of the cylinder due to the gas attempting to escape from the melting dry ice.
January 13, 2008 10:45:43 PM

It appears your overall score is pretty low, and that's probably because you didn't OC your vidcard.

6000+ points for the cpu is just right I think.
January 13, 2008 10:54:42 PM

I'm wondering if my batch didn't bin so well as I needed so much voltage for such an awful overclock. That's why I'm leary about my true temperatures. I might try it again later in the week with a lot less acetone this time. We'll see if I can get my hands on some better equipment too. It'd be nice to have a multimeter and something to read temps.

You also have to throw some error into this project based on the d'ice pot that I made.

Either way...my assumption is that with 1.6V and proper cooling I shouldn't have had such a hard time hitting 4.5GHz. Therefore, my temps under XP were most likely correct.

I could get up to 484FSB and that was my wall. I don't know if it was CPU or board bound but I definitely could not hit 485 without problems. I even tried frying my mobo and CPU to get it higher.

January 13, 2008 10:55:38 PM

Evilonigiri said:
It appears your overall score is pretty low, and that's probably because you didn't OC your vidcard.

6000+ points for the cpu is just right I think.



Certainly...the CPU score looks about right, I didn't care about overclocking the GPU.
January 13, 2008 10:55:54 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
I'm wondering if my batch didn't bin so well as I needed so much voltage for such an awful overclock. That's why I'm leary about my true temperatures. I might try it again later in the week with a lot less acetone this time. We'll see if I can get my hands on some better equipment too. It'd be nice to have a multimeter and something to read temps.

You also have to throw some error into this project based on the d'ice pot that I made.

Either way...my assumption is that with 1.6V and proper cooling I shouldn't have had such a hard time hitting 4.5GHz. Therefore, my temps under XP were most likely correct.

I could get up to 484FSB and that was my wall. I don't know if it was CPU or board bound but I definitely could not hit 485 without problems. I even tried frying my mobo and CPU to get it higher.


Did you run the PLL up and mess with GTL refs?
January 13, 2008 10:57:53 PM

Looking at my overclock you can assume that I'm somewhat new to extreme clocking. I'm not familiar with your acronyms of PLL and GTL though.

I'm assuming your either referring to timings or voltage?
January 13, 2008 10:59:47 PM

I'm having a hard time uploading my final overclock screen shot on image shack as I'm sure your browsing my pictures.

I'll try to get that up asap.
January 13, 2008 11:02:50 PM

Well.. when you get into higher FSBs you have other things to adjust.

CPU PLL can help raise the FSB wall. It's the Phase Locked Loop voltage. When you start getting too high it can't keep up with low voltage.

GTL Refs (Gunning Transceiver Logic) run off a % of the FSB Termination Voltage (CPU VTT). The FSB termination or GTL Refs need to also be adjusted to run higher FSBs. Normally GTL ref runs at 67% of the CPU VTT.

Just some other stuff to play with.

Edit: If you hit a FSB wall, more CPU voltage won't help. NB Voltage might, but if it doesn't you need to mess with PLLs and VTTs. Keep that board cool.
January 13, 2008 11:02:50 PM

Evilonigiri said:
It appears your overall score is pretty low, and that's probably because you didn't OC your vidcard.

6000+ points for the cpu is just right I think.



My overall score is 15108 3DMarks...if I were to overclock the GPU I'd add about 1500-2000 to the end score.

My CPU score was 6670.
January 13, 2008 11:03:57 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
My overall score is 15108 3DMarks...if I were to overclock the GPU I'd add about 1500-2000 to the end score.

My CPU score was 6670.


Are you adding all 3? Because that's not how you do it. It factors video card more than CPU for a reason.
January 13, 2008 11:05:35 PM

Yeah, I saw 11,000+ points as the total.

My pc gets 13,500points.

And cnumartyr gets like 17,000+ points :( 
January 13, 2008 11:08:37 PM

Evilonigiri said:
Yeah, I saw 11,000+ points as the total.

My pc gets 13,500points.

And cnumartyr gets like 17,000+ points :( 



If I added all 3 I'd have over 20k!
January 13, 2008 11:09:10 PM

cnumartyr said:
Well.. when you get into higher FSBs you have other things to adjust.

CPU PLL can help raise the FSB wall. It's the Phase Locked Loop voltage. When you start getting too high it can't keep up with low voltage.

GTL Refs (Gunning Transceiver Logic) run off a % of the FSB Termination Voltage (CPU VTT). The FSB termination or GTL Refs need to also be adjusted to run higher FSBs. Normally GTL ref runs at 67% of the CPU VTT.

Just some other stuff to play with.

Edit: If you hit a FSB wall, more CPU voltage won't help. NB Voltage might, but if it doesn't you need to mess with PLLs and VTTs. Keep that board cool.




I appreciate that...that's good information. I believe in my bios there are options to for adjusting FSB voltages as well as some timings, ps-something? I adjusted my voltages for the FSB which allowed me to reach 484 stable. I also attempted to add voltage to the (g)MCH/Clock Skew control. I was very limited as to my offering for gMCH though. I was given +or-10%. I did not mess with the gMCH timings. I attempted to hoping for a shot of luck but my ignorance prevailed and it actually rendered my system inept. I could not finish a POST after altering the MCH timings.

I had a similar experience with the CPU clock skew control. I even wasted 2.5lbs of d'ice trying to find a parallel between the function of the two skew controls. Alas, I'm dumbfounded by these settings :( 
January 13, 2008 11:11:25 PM

cnumartyr said:
Are you adding all 3? Because that's not how you do it. It factors video card more than CPU for a reason.



I didn't know that. I just noticed that for some reason on the clean install of my OS, my reported score was lower than on my other system. My assumption was that it didn't take the patch correctly.

I have previous scores where my 3.6GHz Q66 was scoring around 13or14 with the same GPU, I believe?
January 13, 2008 11:11:43 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
I appreciate that...that's good information. I believe in my bios there are options to for adjusting FSB voltages as well as some timings, ps-something? I adjusted my voltages for the FSB which allowed me to reach 484 stable. I also attempted to add voltage to the (g)MCH/Clock Skew control. I was very limited as to my offering for gMCH though. I was given +or-10%. I did not mess with the gMCH timings. I attempted to hoping for a shot of luck but my ignorance prevailed and it actually rendered my system inept. I could not finish a POST after altering the MCH timings.

I had a similar experience with the CPU clock skew control. I even wasted 2.5lbs of d'ice trying to find a parallel between the function of the two skew controls. Alas, I'm dumbfounded by these settings :( 



What board is it?

I might look up the BIOS on line and see if I can tell you what things are. It can get pretty confusing.
January 13, 2008 11:14:06 PM

Looking through my Bios it seems that PLL is equivalent to their "CPU/PCIEX Clock Driving Control" as it's stated that the purpose is to change amplitude of CPU, NB, and PCIEX clock.

But looking at it...this seems to bring correlation to the idea of overclocking your PCIE for the sake of your GPU? Maybe I didn't find settings for the PLL.
January 13, 2008 11:15:19 PM

What board is it? said:
What board is it?


Gigabyte X38-DS4
January 13, 2008 11:15:47 PM

I800C0LLECT said:
Looking through my Bios it seems that PLL is equivalent to their "CPU/PCIEX Clock Driving Control" as it's stated that the purpose is to change amplitude of CPU, NB, and PCIEX clock.

But looking at it...this seems to bring correlation to the idea of overclocking your PCIE for the sake of your GPU? Maybe I didn't find settings for the PLL.



What board. PLL has nothing to do with PCIe.

That might be the FSB Term/CPU VTT.
January 13, 2008 11:18:01 PM

Quote:
Edit: If you hit a FSB wall, more CPU voltage won't help. NB Voltage might, but if it doesn't you need to mess with PLLs and VTTs. Keep that board cool.


While testing the board everything seemed to point at a FSB wall. Overvolting the NB didn't seem to help anything and the only settings I didn't mess with were the amplitude settings between CPU/NB/PCIE.

I was pretty much shooting blanks as this was my first extreme clock. But I also now that the X38 doesn't like to be pushed as much as the P35.
January 13, 2008 11:20:46 PM

I'll spit out some bios options...

CPU/PCIEX Clock Driving Control
CPU Clock Skew Control
(G)MCH Clock Skew Control

DDR2 OverVoltage Control
PCI-E OverVoltage Control
FSB OverVoltage Control
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control
MCH Reference Voltage Control
DDR Reference Voltage Control
DDR Termination V-Control
Loadline Calibration (auto adjusts CPU Voltage)
CPU Voltage Control
January 13, 2008 11:23:03 PM

Clock Driving/Skew = Not needed to be touched.

FSB Overvoltage = CPU VTT
MCH Reference = I'm guessing NB GTL Ref
DDR Ref = Another GTL Ref.. but Normally it's CPU
DDR Term = Not sure..

What else is in CTRL+F1?
January 13, 2008 11:23:29 PM

I don't see anything that screams "PLL"

This is why I like Asus and DFI.
January 13, 2008 11:26:10 PM

Ya...I had remembered looking over some past reviews where Asus and DFI were preferred due to their extra settings but you might be on to something with CTRL+F1. However, the competition is for those with gigabyte boards ;) 

I didn't even notice because I was so focused. Let me reboot.
January 13, 2008 11:27:32 PM

cnumartyr said:
I don't see anything that screams "PLL"

This is why I like Asus and DFI.

They usually cost a fortune.

Gigabyte has good mid-lower range boards. But I heard their customer service sucks.
January 13, 2008 11:30:11 PM

Evilonigiri said:
They usually cost a fortune.

Gigabyte has good mid-lower range boards. But I heard their customer service sucks.



My Blood Iron was $120 when I got it. It has an insane amount of options and is great for dual cores.

My P5K-E was $140 and it's great for a quad and has all the options I need.. The ONLY thing it doesn't have is seperate GTL adjustments for the 2 dies.
January 13, 2008 11:33:21 PM

cnumartyr said:
My Blood Iron was $120 when I got it. It has an insane amount of options and is great for dual cores.

My P5K-E was $140 and it's great for a quad and has all the options I need.. The ONLY thing it doesn't have is seperate GTL adjustments for the 2 dies.

Oh...oh yeah?!

My P35C DS3R has DDR2 AND DDR3 support! For $145.


I read that this board has so many problems, I'm always scared to turn on my pc.
January 13, 2008 11:34:35 PM

Lol, I have stayed away from those "hybrid" board since when VIA was making chipsets with DDR and DDR2 support.

:p 
January 13, 2008 11:35:09 PM

I spent 190USD on this board I believe. There is no "CTRL+F1" option anywhere through out the bios.

Perhaps you were looking at bios for a DQ6 model? That's supposed to be the moniker used to differentiate their ultra super do me mother boards. But I don't buy it...they just slap on a different heatsink and charge another 50USD.

It would make sense to include a bit more options for that board.

As it sits, it looks as if I was FSB limited. At least that's what your common knowledge points towards CNU.

Btw...always wondered...CNU=Christopher Newport Uni?
January 13, 2008 11:36:11 PM

:( 

I was swayed by TGH's shinning review.
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