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Its been many hours, and I STILL cant make up my mind!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 22, 2007 1:08:08 AM

Im going to do a completely new build from the ground up. Right now im running a 3400+,1.5gigs ddr2700,and a 9800 pro....ya, It is time. Im going to do the magical 3.0Ghz OC'd e2160 deal with 2 gigs of Patriot mem(PDC22G6400LLK) and a nice Gigabyte board(GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L), then it eventually came down to the final decision....the video card. I've been reading articles for almost 2-3+ hours and I still cannot make up my mind. Im either set on buying a 1950 pro 512mb for what I see $155, or should I get a 8600GTS for about $130...I read a review that someone just replaced it from there 1950 pro...Hmm should I go for the 8600GTS, price looks amazing, I read from others that the drivers are getting better, and its very comparable to the 1950pro... Im lost, im leaning towards the 8600GTS though...Another thing to what are you opnions on 256 vs 512 memory sizes? I read benchmarks/articles that completely contridict everything, the longer I researched the worse it got, Also lets say I do get a 8600GTS, wont DX10 performence be medium at best? But I figure might as well have the DX10 support if it performs close to the same, maybe slightly less than a 1950 pro..I dunno im confused...

More about : hours make mind

October 22, 2007 4:07:26 AM

Wait and see what the 8800GT does to the pricing on the 8800series you might find that the 8800GTS will come down/up in price and youll find buying one of those will only be a little more than the 8600 which is not a good gaming card.
October 22, 2007 4:39:36 AM

Agreed.
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 5:00:57 AM

I definitely would not buy a 9800 pro as it is outdated tech. Still OK if needed as a replacement on an old system, but way overpriced at $150.
October 22, 2007 6:52:21 AM

Unless you're set on a DX10 card, I'd go for the X1950, which performs better right now and is a very popular choice.

If you're still not sure, I'd probably wait and see what happens when the new card comes out, which is what I'm probably going to do myself.
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 7:20:51 AM

Wait a couple of weeks for the 8800gt's to come out. Then you'll hopefully be able to make a better and more informed decision. If you can wait until later in Nov. you could possibly see the AMD's newer versions come out. Then you'd have both parties involved in a price war. Not that prices will change too much, but you'll have the newer and cooler GPU's available.
Could you post your eventual system specs? I'm really interested in what PSU you have selected for your build.
October 22, 2007 8:04:48 AM

Stay away from the 8600 series and wait for the 8800GT or get the 8800GTS.
October 22, 2007 8:31:13 AM

I agree with chookman.

Just wait and see what the 8800gt does with the pricing and then you can decide which card you want to get.
October 22, 2007 11:03:24 AM

It comes out next Monday...wait. You won't be disappointed.
October 22, 2007 12:10:56 PM

First I apologize for putting in '9800 Pro 512MB' for the new card to get, I meant 1950 Pro :pt1cable: 

But This will be my entire build, remember though I put money before performence, Also im at most running 1280x1024 because of my LCD monitor.But this is it.

PSU: Thermaltake W0100RU 500W
MEM: 2G(2x1gb) ddr2800 (4-4-4-12)
CPU:Intel e2180 (gonna try to OC it to 3.2~3.4 :kaola: )
Mobo:Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
V-Card: I was gonna lay the judgement on the MSI NX8600GTS OC, and then OC it some more when I got it...But since this '8800gt' might make the money market sway a little bit, In meantime though I'm very confident I will get everything with the exception of the V-card

The MSI 8600GTS is $130 AR
The Sapphire 1950 PRO 512Mb is $155
BTW all this (without V-card and after rebates)

$295.30 Shipped
I already have a case/DVD-RW and a Raptor 74 HDD so as I said I like to get a bang for my buck and reuse what I can, including my 7 year old case :sarcastic: 

Also please, applause, criticism, tips, notes, opinions are all welcome.
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 12:32:43 PM

Just remember that the mobo only has 1 EIDE port, so if you have 3 PATA drives, you won't be able to hook them all up. Just letting you know that before you buy.
October 22, 2007 1:00:31 PM

lunyone said:
Just remember that the mobo only has 1 EIDE port, so if you have 3 PATA drives, you won't be able to hook them all up. Just letting you know that before you buy.


Ah close one, but my Raptor is on SATA, I just use my other HDD and DVD/RW on the same channel, most of the hardcore stuff/games are gonna be on the raptor anyways. Thanks for watchin out though.
October 22, 2007 1:41:29 PM

Im actually looking even more into this, with the '8800gt' into the mix. From some benchmarks (in Japanese)I see it performs better than a 8800gts but less than a 8800gtx, problem is the slower 8800gts is at the Least from what I saw $250 dollars after a rebate, now lets say when 8800gt releases, how much will the price drop on the gts? or for that matter will it even effect the 8600gts, or make it even worth considering? Im guessing at Most the 8800gts will be maybe $200 after some deal when the GT comes out, even still I really didnt plan on spending $200 on the video card...

Opinions anyone?
a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 1:56:28 PM

I read somewhere that the 8800 gt will cost $250. Just rumor of course. If it's true, and the 8800 gt really beats the 8800 gts, then the 8800 gt will be much better value than anything else on the market IMO.
October 22, 2007 2:42:09 PM

This is where the rumors don't make any sense, why would Nvidia release a card that performs better then the GTS at a lower price. They wouldn't and won't because it'd be hurting themselves, because they would be competiting with themselves.
If they do, do this, Nvidia has lost it. :pt1cable: 
James
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 2:55:52 PM

I may have missed it but i haven't seen an OS listed yet. Are you putting Vista on the PC ? otherwise it wont run DX10 anyway.
You may already know this but you would be amazed at the number of threads that get to about 1/2 pages and then some one mentions which version of vista will be used and then its all ...Oh Crap i only have XP!
Just thought i would mention it.
Mactronix
a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 3:10:58 PM

james_8970 said:
This is where the rumors don't make any sense, why would Nvidia release a card that performs better then the GTS at a lower price. They wouldn't and won't because it'd be hurting themselves, because they would be competiting with themselves.
If they do, do this, Nvidia has lost it. :pt1cable: 
James


Well, it depends. If the die-shrink allows nVidia to make the 8800 GT at a lower cost than the 8800 GTS, then they can sell it for less than the 8800 GTS while maintaining the same profit. If they raise the price too much they lower the number of sales, and that's bad for them. What they really want is to maximize the (number of sales)*(profit per sale). Also, if this can push ATI into bankruptcy or drastically increase nVidia's market share, that's also good for nVidia, even if short-term profits are lower. Look, I'm not saying it makes sense, but it might. :o 
October 22, 2007 4:24:00 PM

-Firstly, Nvidia would not want ATI to go into bancruptcy for the same reasons Intel wouldn't want AMD to.
-Secondly, even if it's cheaper to produce, Nvidia will still want to sell the GTS's. Therefor if the GT is cheaper and performs better then the GTS, there is no market for the GTS.
So no, it doesn't make sense.
James
October 22, 2007 5:03:55 PM

I guess I will have to fall victim with M$'s muhahah no vista no dx10 evil plan :heink:  . So I will be running Vista with this new build, and I assure you I'm probbobly going to be spending more time disabling useless features than building this thing. But, with everything said, Im still leaning towards the schweet MSI NX8600GTS OC, that heatsink is amazing, read from many although its already OC'd it can still be OC some more, and for $130. I have never spent over $200 on a V-card, and frankly, I really never want to fall into that. After all im trying to make a $80 cpu do the work of a ~$200 cpu. I really cant concieve how people can spend half a thousand dollars on a video card. So bottom,line should I be the cheap-o that I am and just shove my 8600gts, or wait and see if this 8800gt messes around with prices, I really dont think even after release that any 88xx series will be under 200, in that case I will go with the 8600GTS, afterall im only doing 1280x1024, I can live without AA/AF if I need to,but at 1280 I think a 8600 can handle it, if I can then good enough. Also im doing this new build mostly for Hellgate:London, but I have a few other games Im willing to buy now that I could run it with most settings close to maxxed.If it hovers above 24FPS min, then I'll be fine. After all I've been playing pretty intense slideshows for awhile now with my 9800pro :pt1cable: 
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 22, 2007 6:29:57 PM

I understand where you are coming from and the answer to your question is yes definatly wait and see what happens to the prices after the 8800gt is released.
I have seen a couple of previews and specs and if they are right then the new cards will come inside your price range any way and should (again only going on info seen)so no gaurantees be better than the 8600.
Mactronix
October 22, 2007 10:20:53 PM

Well It looks like I'll do just that. I ordered everything with the exception of the video card.Afterall that 500W Thermaltake for $35 AR is a steal, got scared if it was gonna go away. Now I'll just have to sit, wait, and watch the show. But this post is still far from over, at least until the end of the month, then I'll let you guys know what card I got and what kind of frames im gonna be pushing out.
October 22, 2007 11:26:40 PM

james_8970 said:
-Firstly, Nvidia would not want ATI to go into bancruptcy for the same reasons Intel wouldn't want AMD to.
-Secondly, even if it's cheaper to produce, Nvidia will still want to sell the GTS's. Therefor if the GT is cheaper and performs better then the GTS, there is no market for the GTS.
So no, it doesn't make sense.
James

Which is why they are going to scrap the 8800gts and as far as I know, start producing it with just 640mb and up its SP's from 96 to 112.

Even then its performance for shading wont equal the theoretical performance for shaders with 8800gt, but thats about all the GT would win in if those specs were true.
October 23, 2007 12:03:10 AM

I'm talking about current GPU's, who knows what the future will bring. For all we know Nvidia might plan on burning all the GT's (ATI may have caused the fire) or change the name to fool around with your head.
Basically I basing my information on what is currently on the market, not on the future. It sounds likely that Nvidia will scrap the lower 8800GTS, only time will tell.....
James
October 23, 2007 12:06:01 AM

No, they are scrapping the 8800gts. 8800gt is very close in performance at a MUCH cheaper cost, and its low power needs along with single slot appeal to the buyer.

"You can get that 8800gt, OR you can get this, it doesn't perform as well, it gets extremely hot and needs lots of space and power, oh and it costs more and we get less profit because ATI is guna kick our butts with their 55nm low cost cards!"

I don't think so.

------------
(rite there goes my 3posting days off of doing absolutly nothing just chilling, back to exercise tomorrow so no more excessive posts by me! :D )
October 23, 2007 12:18:02 AM

-Not sure about you, but I don't like single slot coolers, I like the hot air outside of my case.
-Key word was lower end GTS, I was refuring to the 320mb version.
-Lastly, what was the quote all about? lol
-Margins will be slightly slimmers(and I mean slightly), but Nvidia will still be reaping in huge amounts on the GTS/GTX and ultra, regardless of the form factor. Remember, initially there will be higher costs associated with the die shrink because of the cost of upgrading the facility. In the long run of course it's cheaper, but Nvidia is probably looking at saving 5$ a card, if that with the smaller die.
James
October 23, 2007 2:13:24 AM

I'm in a similar boat but have to wait til tax refund time.

Ultimately I'll probably get the 2600XT 512 for $135
Outperforms the 8600GTS and similar performance to the 1950 Pro off the benchmarks on Anandtech in regards to UT3 and Orange Box...at a cheaper price. If you get the 256 meg ones it's even cheaper but I'll be going with the PowerColor one for $135 myself.

IMO 2600XT is the way to go.
I'm not paying $200+ for a graphics card that is already outdated, sorry. I'd rather spend the money on ram or a better cpu and stick with a midrange card to use with my 22" LCD (1680x1050). 30fps is good enough for me.
October 23, 2007 3:30:39 AM

bildo123 said:

Also please, applause, criticism, tips, notes, opinions are all welcome.


If money isnt the last thing for you, go for AMD X2 + 8800 GT/GTS or ATI 3850/70, this will give you way better fps than Intel + 8600 or 1950 series. Intel is worth it if you have extra $ to spend for few more fps and already have very good video card.
October 23, 2007 3:51:25 AM

Harrisson said:
If money isnt the last thing for you, go for AMD X2 + 8800 GT/GTS or ATI 3850/70, this will give you way better fps than Intel + 8600 or 1950 series. Intel is worth it if you have extra $ to spend for few more fps and already have very good video card.


I did consider this and even read the nice OC Article on the X2 +5000 black edition, I have been a loyal AMD customer since I built my first rig, even my first pc had one, a AMD 350Mhz K-12 or something like that. But even with that 5000+ OC to its max, it still cant beat the E2180 OC @ 2.4~2.6Ghz, not only that the E2180 is roughly $80 and the 5000 black is around $130-$140? Sad to say I traded sides, but im due for an upgrade, and this is the moment I've been waiting for, the system im gonna have without the V-card is solid, IMO...It's just that I've never spent over $180 on a V-card, thats what I bought my 9800 pro for years ago, before that I had an 8500 (still have part of the box) for about $160-180, and that was YEARS ago heh, brings back good memories though... :ange:  I never bought top of the line, which after this 8800gt comes out might make one of the 8800's within my price range, than ill scoop it up and settle for another 2~3 years.

***Edit*** just checked my reciept for my 9800 pro, bought it $185.50 12/5/2004 12:31:14 PM Ya baby talk about a milkman, lets see you ladies milk that card for this long, still does decent on some games too...
a b U Graphics card
October 23, 2007 4:11:36 AM

The only thing with the AMD build would net you, is the possibility of putting in a Phenom processor later. Not saying that it'll smoke your socks off, but that is the only thing I can see different. I'm with you on the 5000+ and the e2180 debate there. Hard to beat the e2180 at 3-3.4 gig, especially for the $. The only thing I would say on that is that you have to nearly spend $100-130 for a decent mobo (p35 based). And with the AMD you can get a decent mobo for about $60-80, so you can offset your costs that way between the two. Intel would be ~$190-220 and the AMD would be about the same, so about equal in price. Sure you can get a cheaper 965 mobo, but would be hard pressed to be Penryn compatable, which is the main selling point of the p35's right now. I'm not trying to persuade you either way, just trying to inform you of all the possiblilities. Anyone can twist things to make their point, but your the one that is spending the $ and doing the research, so you are the one making the decisions. My biggest thing, is that if the 5000+ was under $100 that would make it more difficult to recommend a e2180, for the simple fact that you don't need to worry about your operating temps with the 5000+. Yes the e2180 would still out perform, but from a pure budget perspective, most average buyers wouldn't know the difference, except for their pocket books.
October 23, 2007 5:04:04 AM

8800GT will probably cost ~250$, while offering 2x performance over 8600GTS, just a tip :) 
October 23, 2007 5:31:20 PM

Harrisson said:
8800GT will probably cost ~250$, while offering 2x performance over 8600GTS, just a tip :) 


Oh crappies I just viewed the benchmarks on that Japanese website on the 8800gt and they threw the 8600gts in there for good measure...What a massive buzz kill... the 8800gt has a huge lead over the 8600gts, looks like the tables have turned more so on me getting the 8800gt thus waiting, afterall my entire base system without the V-card was just under $300 :sol:  So I guess this one time I'll stretch my wallet a little bit if it gets me another year or two out of it...still not over yet though, I wanna see exactly what happens when this GT comes out.
October 23, 2007 6:17:25 PM

Wow, there is no way that card will be selling at $250 (or that I can see anyways). The performance is between the HD2900xt/8800GTS and the 8800GTX!
James
!