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Watercooled - but still high temps

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January 11, 2008 2:19:38 PM

Rig is listed in my sig...

My block is a TDX and have a large radiator w/ 3 120mm fans at 44cfm each.

The loop is pump-->cpu-->radiator-->T-fitting-->pump

Overclock is 3.25Ghz (320x10) @ 1.38v as reported by CPU-Z. The BIOS setting is 1.45v on the P5K-E. Everything else in BIOS is AUTO.

Temps (according to TAT) for idle is around 37*C and up to 60*C load during Prime95. It seems like this is too hot for a beefy watercooling setup. Am I wrong? Case(ambient) temp is about 27*C

More about : watercooled high temps

January 11, 2008 3:12:41 PM

ok first off what TIM did you use? And secondly what pump are you using?

To me it sounds like there is either not enough coolant flow, or there is an issue with the TIM used.

Try cleaning off the TIM and reapplying a fresh thin layer following the instructions on Arctic Silver's website.

-ouch1

-ouch1
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January 14, 2008 3:46:23 PM

Yeah that seems like a pretty big delta for just a cpu and 360 rad. What size tubing are you using? What type fluid? What make/model rad?

re-seating the block would be a good first step. Gotta ask 'cuase I've seen it happen - did you remove the plastic cover off the base of the water block?
January 14, 2008 7:49:29 PM

Here's the deal:

Radiator is a Black Ice Extreme 3 (means you can put 3 120mm fans on it).

Fluid is 80% distilled and 20% anti-freeze

Tubing is 1/2" IN Tygon

I've reseated the block several times.. and I also just recently lapped my E2180 but the temps still get up to 62*C in TAT (= 79-80*C in Coretemp) at 1.38v in full load.

It must either be my block or my pump..
January 14, 2008 10:21:42 PM

CypHill said:
Here's the deal:

Radiator is a Black Ice Extreme 3 (means you can put 3 120mm fans on it).


A good rad. What CFM for the fans? Do you have a fan shroud? That could help another 2-3 degrees.

CypHill said:
Fluid is 80% distilled and 20% anti-freeze


That's a higher concentration than recommended for pc Watercooling. Too much can actually store heat. Cut back to 5-10% (I'd go 5). This could be the source of the problem. You might find this two-part document helpful:

Part 1...http://www.overclockers.com/articles993/index.asp
Part 2...http://www.overclockers.com/tips1153/index.asp

Adding antifreeze to your PC water-cooling system will increase the viscosity of the coolant and can reduce the overall flow rate thru the system. In addition, the thermal conductivity and specific heat of glycol is not as good as water. Combining these factors may result in a measurable drop in cooling performance.

CypHill said:
Tubing is 1/2" IN Tygon


Nice
CypHill said:
I've reseated the block several times.. and I also just recently lapped my E2180 but the temps still get up to 62*C in TAT (= 79-80*C in Coretemp) at 1.38v in full load.

It must either be my block or my pump..


I don't know much about that block. The pump is a good one. Loop order? In a closed loop, the order is not that critical (except that the res/T-line should always come before the pump). There's only maybe a 2 degree difference in water temp across the loop. HOWEVER, the water that will be 1-2 degrees cooler will be the water exiting the radiator. You might want to change the loop order to T-Line>pump>rad>cpu>T-Line.

I'd try those things before I think about replacing the block or the pump. How old is this setup, and has the temp differential always been this wide. Have you taken your block apart to make sure its clean and no blockages?
January 15, 2008 12:19:57 AM

Tony,

Thanks for your replies..

The fans are 44cfm each.. they're Enermax 120mm with the fluid bearings.. very quiet but only 44cfm each.

I was guestimating the percentage of coolant.. the fluid mix is barely a greenish tint.

Loop order used to be pump->rad->cpu->T->pump

Now it's pump->cpu->rad->T->pump (recommended by DangerDen)

Neither setup has changed the temp.

The radiator has been around for a couple of years.. but it is supper clean.. the block too. In fact there were NO build up after two years. I still nevertheless cleaned them and used new tubing. Yes the block was taken apart.. I had to do this to switch from a 939 top to a 775. Even with the 939 setup the temps were higher than I expected. I assume it's either the pump or block.
January 15, 2008 8:53:50 AM

CypHill - Are you sure you bled ALL the air out of your loop? There is a possibility of an inherent air bubble in your radiator that is holding things up.
January 15, 2008 10:09:14 AM

CypHill said:
Tony,

Thanks for your replies..

The fans are 44cfm each.. they're Enermax 120mm with the fluid bearings.. very quiet but only 44cfm each.


That rad calls for higher CFM fans - maybe 77-80 CFM. It's also more restrictive than the newer Black Ice GTX. Before I replaced the block and/or the pump, I'd try changing the fluid and fad fans first. Try draining and cleaning your loop, then filling with just distilled water. See if that makes a difference. If id does, then ditch the antifreeze and do with some pentosin and PT Nuke or HydrX. You also should upgrade your rad fans (which you should do anyway for that rad). Maybe some medium speed Yate Loons (YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SM-12).

The question on bleeding is a good one - especially with a T-Line. Make sure there are no air pockets/bubbles in the loop.
January 15, 2008 12:00:15 PM

I'm pretty sure it's bled all out.. but just so I know - do you recommend any certain procedure with the T fitting in the loop? I've let it sit for hours until the tubes are clear of bubbles.. but maybe now that it's in the case and the rad is up at the top, there could be a possibility of an air bubble there...
January 15, 2008 12:30:28 PM

CypHill said:
I'm pretty sure it's bled all out.. but just so I know - do you recommend any certain procedure with the T fitting in the loop? ..


With the fill port open, tilt your pc in every direction, wiggle and thump the tubing. If there's trapped air you'll see bubbles and probably hear swooshing. Let it sit for a while running, and do it all again. Put fluid in as necessary. With a T-Line, you might have to bleed for up to 24 hrs.

Not any different with a reservoir, it just takes longer with a T.
January 15, 2008 1:31:19 PM

Gah, bleeding. Every time I service my rig I get flashbacks to when I had to redo my car's brakes. I invented a few new swearwords that day...

I had a similar problem until I discovered I had a kinked pipe somewhere in the loop. Removing the kink dropped my load temps from about 65ºC to 45ºC, with an idle (both times) of about 32ºC. You might want to check this out.

Another thing I've discovered that causes "mysterious" overheating is a failing/under-spec power supply. If you use 450W where you need a minimum of 500W, you'll get overheating (unless, of course, you're lucky and the system fails to even start).

Hope this helps.
January 15, 2008 1:35:45 PM

Good suggestions, Mugz.
January 15, 2008 6:32:02 PM

Tony,

Thanks for the tip.. that's actually how I do it except the whole loop is out of the system so I can easily move every componont.. once I'm confident all bubbles are out I put it back in the case.. I guess I should do this again.

Mugz,

I have no kinks in my loop.. I'm very careful about that sort of thing. But the power supply issue may not be so far from the truth.. I mean I do have a 650 watt power supply.. but it's very generic. It's a Hiper unit from Newegg - modular 650watt for $90! Haha.. I might want to invest in a better PS first.. that'll be the easiest to swap out.

Btw - I just got a new block from Danger Den to try out. Those guys are the best.. they're letting me try a new block out to see if it's the issue. I think I'll try the PS first..
January 17, 2008 4:39:46 AM

Good luck!
January 18, 2008 12:36:36 PM

Yeah, good luck. Let us know what happens.
January 22, 2008 12:38:49 PM

Well I replaced the PSU with a Thermaltake 750watt unit and still no difference. It's either the block or the pump.

I'll try and find some time to switch out the waterblock that Danger Den sent me.

Do you guys have to really pinch your wire to hear a different whine from the pump? How much pressure do you guys have? I don't have a nominal value, but I know I have to pinch the tubing a lot to feel flow.
January 22, 2008 2:19:28 PM

If you are pinching your Pump wires and hearing differing noises, then I would check the pump. Try pinching the wire and some tubing and see if you can feel a pressure difference. Also, I really find it hard to believe that the block is the problem. DD sends their designs to a place where they cast copper. Unless one waterblock decides that it doesnt want to follow the same thermal laws as all the other copper in the world, i doubt it could be your block. I really think you just had a bad mount. AS5 is very tricky to use, and very hard to get the consistency right. Personally i just spread a very thin layer across my IHS, and that works for me. Thats what i would try.
January 22, 2008 9:04:38 PM

When you say "pinch your wire" do you mean the electrical wires or the tubing?

Are their any tight bends? Even a bend that's not quite kinked could be restricting flow. Make sure there's nothing blocking flow in the rad, block or res. Your T is the same ID as your tubing, right? Is it kept fairly full at all times?

I would also re-look your fluid. Even if it's not exactly 20% antifreeze, if its close that's still too high. Drain our loop and run with straight distilled water for a while to see what difference it makes. A couple of days won't hurt.

I'd change the fluid and run with the current block for a while before changing out the block. Otherwise if there's an improvement, you won't know which change accounted for it.
January 22, 2008 9:42:37 PM

Another thought is to check and see if your heatsink or waterblock are concave/convex. Having a bow in either one or both, that bows the wrong way could result in the situation described.
January 23, 2008 5:31:15 AM

I made the mistake of a 25% antifreeze mix once. Temps used to spike from 28ºC up to somewhere in the seventies, then drop to the forties and stay there until the CPU load increased again.

At ~10% mix my highest temp is around 58ºC. Still too high for my liking... but that's another story.

Checking waterblock mounting/seating is also a good suggestion.

Groveling_Wyrm also has a good idea, which opens the doorway to lapping...
!