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How to trick the control board about fan's RPM without a fan?

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October 19, 2007 9:05:16 PM

Hello Folks,

I would like to stop the fan spinning on my Zalman Reserator XT (temperatures no problem).

The fan has a 3-pin header (Y-R-B) going into the control board. If the fan does not spin, alarms sound off. Yellow carries signal/sense/rpm to the control board as far as i can see.

What can i do to relay a fan speed to the control board without running a fan?

Thank you in advance for your time.

Maria
October 19, 2007 10:11:27 PM

Why not do something simpler, disconnect the wires on the alarm speaker, no more alarm sounding
October 19, 2007 10:15:35 PM

I want the alarm working. It gives indication of coolant temperature and flow.
Related resources
October 19, 2007 11:11:53 PM

wel... then i dont know lol... search in google =] that might help because some people in this forum dont really care for what i've seen
October 19, 2007 11:59:57 PM

This is not my area of expertise, but what I know of that, it's measuring RPMs.

I only know of one guy who's tricked the control board, and he did it by attaching a scope to a running fan circuit, and then setting up a programmable logic controller to constantly output that.

Not a reasonable solution, but it worked.
October 20, 2007 1:06:03 AM

Sengoku said:
This is not my area of expertise, but what I know of that, it's measuring RPMs.

I only know of one guy who's tricked the control board, and he did it by attaching a scope to a running fan circuit, and then setting up a programmable logic controller to constantly output that.

Not a reasonable solution, but it worked.


Hello Sengoku,

Yes the idea is exactly that. Isn't there a simpler solution like attaching a resistor or something? Or how to do what this guy did? Is there some place i can read what he did?

Thanks!

Maria
October 20, 2007 1:16:22 AM

Why do you want the fan to stop in the first place?
Is it too noisy? If it is it might be faulty...replace it!

It sounds like you're o/cing the card anyways, so push it a little harder to use the benfit of liquid cooling...
or better yet, if this controller has a speed control turn it down to the slowest you can... fans are important and if your system were to have a sudden increase in temp you might damage the card before you could shut it down.

As an electronics tech. I know that devices do not cool down immediatly after power is removed. They actually heat slightly due to the transfer delay from die to casing to heatsink!

Hope this helps!
October 20, 2007 1:35:50 AM

What i am asking what you are saying!!!

I came here with a specific problem, and I have done all the thermal testing that needs to be done. I have 58C on Q6600 at 3.6 GHz after 1 hour of torture tests (speedstep disabled)

If possible delete your post.
October 20, 2007 1:40:42 AM

Please people, do not insult the intelligence of the poster and clutter the area with your own supposed solutions.

Why not disable the alarm, why not run the fan at its lowest speed, why disable the fan, why not use liquid cooling? What the heck are you saying? I came here with a specific problem, please state your opinion if it is related to what i am asking. All other options have been thought out to save you the trouble of typing.

So far only Sengoku posted pertinent information. Thank you for that Sengoku.
October 20, 2007 1:57:37 AM

Please don't be an disresectful to someone trying to help! I don't know why anyone would want to kill a fan that's designed to protect your VALUABLE hardware!
You have not stated WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You want the fan by-passed!

As for that signal it is PWM..(Pulse Width Modulated) the only way to fool the controller is to give it a signal that matches the reference frequency of the controller!

But, if you really want to stop the zalman while not trigerring an alarm... just get a case fan with 3 wire connector, install/replace one of your other case fans nearest the controller and plug it into the controller.
This will give the signal the controller wants and you will have acheived your goal!
October 20, 2007 2:42:27 AM

johnnyq1233 said:
Please don't be an disresectful to someone trying to help! I don't know why anyone would want to kill a fan that's designed to protect your VALUABLE hardware!
You have not stated WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You want the fan by-passed!


I am not going to explain my life story here. I have been straight to the point in order to avoid irrelevant discussions -- to stop wasting my time and your time. I haven't asked you if you advise me to stop my fan or not. If I asked that you could have advised me not to stop it. Please reread my post.

I just want to disable the fan. End of the story (in order to avoid more discussions about sound levels).



As for that signal it is PWM..(Pulse Width Modulated) the only way to fool the controller is to give it a signal that matches the reference frequency of the controller!
said:

As for that signal it is PWM..(Pulse Width Modulated) the only way to fool the controller is to give it a signal that matches the reference frequency of the controller!


I don't think it is PWM -- isn't pwm with 4 pins?


But, if you really want to stop the zalman while not trigerring an alarm... just get a case fan with 3 wire connector, install/replace one of your other case fans nearest the controller and plug it into the controller.
This will give the signal the controller wants and you will have acheived your goal! said:

But, if you really want to stop the zalman while not trigerring an alarm... just get a case fan with 3 wire connector, install/replace one of your other case fans nearest the controller and plug it into the controller.
This will give the signal the controller wants and you will have acheived your goal!


No, i didn't achieve the goal. What is the point of disabling a fan only to add another fan? I don't have any case fans.

Thank you for your input.
October 20, 2007 2:56:58 AM

What happens if I jumper the pins YELLOW (signal) and RED (power)? Could that trick the controllor board thinking the fan is always on and spinning?
a b ) Power supply
October 20, 2007 3:17:30 AM

6_6_6 said:
What happens if I jumper the pins YELLOW (signal) and RED (power)? Could that trick the controllor board thinking the fan is always on and spinning?


NO!!!!!!
October 20, 2007 3:18:13 AM

Go ahead and do it if it works good! If not then don't ask stupid questions...!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for asking ridiculus questions...


OH! here's one ................ Don't turn on the computer it will stop the fan and you won't get any alarms and we won't have to try to answer any stupid questions!
October 20, 2007 3:32:12 AM

you people are all thinking too complicted...
SIMPLIFY MAN!!!

if you are sure that you will not need that fan, or maybe if you can just fit another fan cable into it's place, try this.

get a cheapie fan. (or use the one you have if you dont mind it being destroyed) and using a dremel or some other suitable tool, remove the fan blades.

put it back in. HOPEFULLY (i'm not sure if the motor itself wont cause a bit of "whine" noise) the removal of the blades will also remove the noise. the fan will technically be "spinning", appeasing the mobo and the alarm, but wont be pushing any air.

Valis
October 20, 2007 3:35:54 AM

johnnyq1233 said:

OH! here's one ................ Don't turn on the computer it will stop the fan and you won't get any alarms and we won't have to try to answer any stupid questions!


Please stay out of my thread. I have low tolerance for imbecility. I haven't asked your opinion. If you have an answer to my problem, just state it and I will be grateful. Otherwise, stop wasting your time and mine with irrelevant answers that has no bearing to my specific issue.
October 20, 2007 3:37:28 AM

valis said:
you people are all thinking too complicted...
SIMPLIFY MAN!!!

if you are sure that you will not need that fan, or maybe if you can just fit another fan cable into it's place, try this.

get a cheapie fan. (or use the one you have if you dont mind it being destroyed) and using a dremel or some other suitable tool, remove the fan blades.

put it back in. HOPEFULLY (i'm not sure if the motor itself wont cause a bit of "whine" noise) the removal of the blades will also remove the noise. the fan will technically be "spinning", appeasing the mobo and the alarm, but wont be pushing any air.

Valis


Valis, we thought about this. Motor whine is the issue.
October 20, 2007 4:00:13 AM

Sorry for the posts, but I really can't grasp why a singe (quiet) motor is so annoying that you can't eliminate with some simple sound dmpening material!

My clock (wind-up) makes more noise than my 2 systems running in the same room!

So, sorry for any missgivings...John
a b ) Power supply
October 20, 2007 4:03:46 AM

This might work - Using the 3 pin wire and connector form a fan.

Take a 100 Kohm and a 1 Kohm (1/4 Watt) resistors and connect them in series. Connect the 100 Kohm resistor to the Red (+12V), connect the end of the 1 Kohm to the Blk (Gnd/Rtn). Connect the Junction of the Resistors to the Yellow.

This should provide approx 0.12 volt DC Feedback to the Yellow.

If this doesn't work, then you will need to use the red/blck leads to provide a voltage to a frequency generator (IC) (ie NE555) and apply this output to the Yellow, using a 100 Kohm series resistor.

For what it's worth. The PWM (Pulse width Modulation) controls the fan RPM's by varing the duty cycle to the run windings vs analog control of the +12 V - More eff.
a b ) Power supply
October 20, 2007 4:38:50 AM

Funny you mention PWM.... when my cpu is cool and at idle my fan just pulses(every 2 seconds or so does not move much at all, its not turning...lets say that)at least its not sitting there with 2 volts overheating the coils....
October 20, 2007 5:01:24 AM

Right, a solution you ask? Well, it'll take come circuitry design (Which I dont have currently, but I can find out)...

What you need is a simple circuit to provide a pulse on the yellow (sensor) wire to fool the monitor into thining there is a fan attached and is spinning normally. The alarm will sound when the RPM monitoring reports a value under a certain threshold. It should be easy enough to construct a pulsed circuit like this, and I'll ask my electonics engineer friend when he's online again. Other than that, no, I dont know of any other way to do this, short of the suggestions already posted.

Finally, with all due respect, being short and brusqe with people who are offering advice is not a way to gain a good reputation, should you need more help in the future. Be a little more tolerant of anyone trying to help you, and you'll do fine XD
October 20, 2007 5:04:00 AM

I was really upset at 666's reply for trying to help her.
I did mention the PWM before and she slagged me for it!
I'm an electronics tech.....that means I know stuff!...........
If I didn't I wouldn't have responded to this thread (thinking I could help someone.)

Is there anyone else out there that runs a system with...ABSOLUTELY NO FANS IN THERE SYSTEM ?
I really would like to know!
October 20, 2007 5:05:44 AM

Bah, due to the forums not allowing me to edit my own bloody reply, here is another possible solution. Run another flowmeter in the coolant loop and use the output from that to fool the monitor. This will only work if the flow rate is high enough to provide a signal that would be at least as fast as the slowest acceptable fan speed, but its another solution worth considering, as well as a backup for the existing flow meter.
a b ) Power supply
October 20, 2007 5:29:15 AM

Now thats thinking outside the box....flow meter.....perfect...
October 20, 2007 5:48:46 AM

johnnyq1233 said:
I was really upset at 666's reply for trying to help her.
I did mention the PWM before and she slagged me for it!
I'm an electronics tech.....that means I know stuff!...........
If I didn't I wouldn't have responded to this thread (thinking I could help someone.)

Is there anyone else out there that runs a system with...ABSOLUTELY NO FANS IN THERE SYSTEM ?
I really would like to know!


That will be me. Silentmaxx 500W water cooled psu.

Gigabyte X38-DQ6
Q6600
8600 GT

Only frigging zalman fan is remaining. My temps are good even when i disable zalman fan (by connecting a sensor from another psu powered nearby).
October 20, 2007 5:52:30 AM

johnnyq1233 said:
Sorry for the posts, but I really can't grasp why a singe (quiet) motor is so annoying that you can't eliminate with some simple sound dmpening material!


It surely can be taken care of, but we already discussed about it before with my friends. A friend even tested the bladeless fan. Therefore, it is not the solution i am looking for. I can just put my computer in the other room and run long cables as well... But you see, it is not the solution i am looking for. I came here with a very specific query. Why can't you just respect that?
October 20, 2007 6:02:22 AM

RetiredChief said:
This might work - Using the 3 pin wire and connector form a fan.

Take a 100 Kohm and a 1 Kohm (1/4 Watt) resistors and connect them in series. Connect the 100 Kohm resistor to the Red (+12V), connect the end of the 1 Kohm to the Blk (Gnd/Rtn). Connect the Junction of the Resistors to the Yellow.

This should provide approx 0.12 volt DC Feedback to the Yellow.

If this doesn't work, then you will need to use the red/blck leads to provide a voltage to a frequency generator (IC) (ie NE555) and apply this output to the Yellow, using a 100 Kohm series resistor.

For what it's worth. The PWM (Pulse width Modulation) controls the fan RPM's by varing the duty cycle to the run windings vs analog control of the +12 V - More eff.


Retiredchief,

Thank you very much. I will try the first option on monday. I don't have electronics knowledge but I think I can handle it with a bit of reading. If not, I will move to the second.

Thanks again.
October 20, 2007 6:12:27 AM

Cabletwitch said:
Right, a solution you ask? Well, it'll take come circuitry design (Which I dont have currently, but I can find out)...

What you need is a simple circuit to provide a pulse on the yellow (sensor) wire to fool the monitor into thining there is a fan attached and is spinning normally. The alarm will sound when the RPM monitoring reports a value under a certain threshold. It should be easy enough to construct a pulsed circuit like this, and I'll ask my electonics engineer friend when he's online again.


cabletwitch, thank you. I probably cannot do this myself though, but I can take the diagrams to an electronics shop and ask them do it for me. I will wait for your reply.


Finally, with all due respect, being short and brusqe with people who are offering advice is not a way to gain a good reputation, should you need more help in the future. Be a little more tolerant of anyone trying to help you, and you'll do fine XD said:

Finally, with all due respect, being short and brusqe with people who are offering advice is not a way to gain a good reputation, should you need more help in the future. Be a little more tolerant of anyone trying to help you, and you'll do fine XD


I am sorry, I am direct to the point in my life. I don't like to waste anyone's time let alone mine. You gotta respect that i did my homework and narrowed it down to a very specific issue. I beforehand thanked everyone for the time they took to read my post... but i cannot thank anyone for irrelevant advices that are of no help to me anyhow anyway. To post just to sake of posting is not the way to go.


October 20, 2007 6:26:39 AM

Cabletwitch said:
Bah, due to the forums not allowing me to edit my own bloody reply, here is another possible solution. Run another flowmeter in the coolant loop and use the output from that to fool the monitor. This will only work if the flow rate is high enough to provide a signal that would be at least as fast as the slowest acceptable fan speed, but its another solution worth considering, as well as a backup for the existing flow meter.


Wow, thanks, now that is an idea.

Flow indicator has 4 cables: Y-R-B-W that goes to the botton right socket in the PCB.

Which one do I have to cut and connect?
October 20, 2007 6:39:30 AM

cabletwitch,

And furthermore, spinpaddle rotates very slowly, I don't reckon more than 50 rpms. Zalman's fan is min 900 rpms, max 1700 rpms. Assuming there is a treshold and it is at 500 rpms, is there a way to increase that pulse 10 folds (supposedly)? Just thinking about possibilities.
October 20, 2007 6:45:42 AM

Ok, ixnay on the flowmeter idea then. IT was only a passing suggestion, I wasnt aware of how slowly they rotated. Still, could have worked :o )

Yes, I'll pester my resident electronics wizard when he gets himself online. The problem here is that he's in the states, and I'm in the UK, so its mainly in the afternoon that we overlap. I'm sure it'll take him 5 mins to rig something up. Should be pretty easy to make yourself, if you're any good with a soldering iron. Besides, self-made mods are part of the fun!
October 20, 2007 8:12:49 AM

Cabletwitch said:
Ok, ixnay on the flowmeter idea then. IT was only a passing suggestion, I wasnt aware of how slowly they rotated. Still, could have worked :o )

Yes, I'll pester my resident electronics wizard when he gets himself online. The problem here is that he's in the states, and I'm in the UK, so its mainly in the afternoon that we overlap. I'm sure it'll take him 5 mins to rig something up. Should be pretty easy to make yourself, if you're any good with a soldering iron. Besides, self-made mods are part of the fun!


No hurry cabletwitch, I will try RetiredChief's suggestions on monday. It will be great if you can get him till then.

I don't think the controller board is checking exactly the RPM of hte fan -- probably is just checking if any value is coming back. As far as i remember, it worked when i tried with an undervolted fan. Flow metter might work. Can you just ask him that too.

Thank you very much.
October 20, 2007 11:13:26 AM

What you need is a circuit called an astable multivibrator (it sounds more complicated than it is), that basically sends pulses that mimic what comes back from the fan down the yellow wire. You can do this with a couple of transistors and some resistors and capacitors, or with a 555 timer IC. If you put a variable resistor in the circuit somewhere you could hook it up to a spare motherboard fan header to set an rpm, then hook it back up to the Zalman.

There's more on the topic in this thread at hardware central.
October 20, 2007 11:35:48 AM

I saw on one of the reserator xt reviews that the pump has an RPM feedback too. Maybe if you connected that to the fan sensor it would provide enough rpms to disable the alarm.
October 20, 2007 1:07:44 PM

polarity many many thanks. You guys, all of you, are spectacular. Now indeed i have something I can work on.
a b ) Power supply
October 20, 2007 2:18:02 PM

You may be able to pick up the 555 Timer IC (8 pin IC) from Radio shack. Requires 3 resistors and Two capacitors (and if 50% duty cycle - a diode). The 555 may come with a data sheet, if not you can google it or I can provide the RC value for a 1 KHz frequency..

Don't think you need 50% duty cycle, Can get close without using diod.
October 20, 2007 2:56:54 PM

The sensor hardware probably only detects either a rising or falling edge of the waveform, so replicating the fan output accurately probably isn't necessary. The hall effect sensor in the fan acts something like a variable resistor as far as I understand (rotary ones can be swapped for the pots in joysticks), so it probably outputs close to a sine wave, unless there is other circuitry in the fan. One thing to note is that the sensor outputs 2 pulses for every revolution of the fan.

Don't forget the difference between revolutions per minute and Hz (cycles per second) I've done that before with stepper motor speed controllers, and like most simple things it took me a while to figure out.
October 20, 2007 4:03:56 PM

6_6_6 said:
Please people, do not insult the intelligence of the poster and clutter the area with your own supposed solutions.

Why not disable the alarm, why not run the fan at its lowest speed, why disable the fan, why not use liquid cooling? What the heck are you saying? I came here with a specific problem, please state your opinion if it is related to what i am asking. All other options have been thought out to save you the trouble of typing.

So far only Sengoku posted pertinent information. Thank you for that Sengoku.



6_6_6 said:
Please stay out of my thread. I have low tolerance for imbecility. I haven't asked your opinion. If you have an answer to my problem, just state it and I will be grateful. Otherwise, stop wasting your time and mine with irrelevant answers that has no bearing to my specific issue.


WOW!! What a freaking jerk! You come in here asking questions that to most people would sound a little crazy (and maybe plain stupid to some people), and then you turn around and insult the first few people who posted anything. Maybe everyone here didn't think you had thought out "All other options", you know, since you POSTED A QUESTION HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE! And you obviously didn't specify in the op what you have already considered or done. Telling people to stay out of your thread and calling them imbeciles is a really mature way of handling your frustrations, but I hope I'm not insulting the intelligence of the poster and cluttering the area with my own supposed sol - oh, wait, I'm just here to tell you you're a D!CK. :sarcastic:  And waste your time with my irrelevant answers. And my time. With my irrelevant answers. Or non answers. Or whatever. Since you saved me the trouble of typing. Now I'm just wasting time. Are you still reading this? Now you're just wasting your own time.
October 20, 2007 4:22:55 PM

:o  . o O (guess this thread is heating up)

Though, curious. When it beeps, is it the PC speaker from the bios that beeps? Or is it an app you run in windows that beeps?

I use a fan controller for all my fans so no fans are hooked up to the MB. The MSI app was just driving me nutz, so I un-installed it. :lol: 

CoreTemp and SpeedFan are my main temp apps, which SpeedFan can be set to alarm me when temps past a certain point.
October 20, 2007 5:02:59 PM

:ouch:  . o O (wow, that does look pretty cool... heheh)
October 20, 2007 10:19:15 PM

6_6_6 said:
Please stay out of my thread. I have low tolerance for imbecility.


Obviously not, or you wouldn't have said something like this:

Quote:
What i am asking what you are saying!!!


to contribute, however, I think you're **** out of luck unless you get a tiny quiet fan and plug it in the CPU Fan slot.

October 20, 2007 11:21:30 PM

Ironsoap From looking at that cooler it must have a 12cm fan on the radiator/heat exchanger.
I've got 2 12cm fans in my Sonata II case and they are very quiet!
My clock makes more noise than my tower.......lol
I wouldn't mind seeing/hearing this cooler in action as I'm quite sure these guys at Zalman wouldn't make a noisy external cooling system in the first place!
But everyone has there little annoyances that drive them mad....mad I tells you!

Here's a neat little trick to stop all noises from bothering you....Take 2 fire crackers, stick one in each ear and lite them in a few seconds you won't ever be bothered by noise again!...lol
October 22, 2007 4:27:42 AM

I would like to thank you guys all. You have been great help. My apologies to those I offended. I also would like to thank those who bothered to read but did not post. I have not contributed to this forum at all, however, you all spent your time to assist me with my issue. I appreciate your time.

I do not have sufficient amount of time right now, but I will definitely read up on all the information presented and device a solution. Right now, my solution is to run a long signal cable from another fan elsewhere to silence it.

I will update the post in due time. Thank you again, you have a great week.

Maria
October 22, 2007 5:06:48 AM

I really want to help, except I'm afraid of incurring the wrath for an answer that isn't up to par. :whistle: 

[:zorg:1] [:zorg:2] [:zorg:1]
October 22, 2007 6:17:48 AM

This may help you in the future.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk

although the video left out one important thing. be grateful to those willing to help... people take time out of THEIR day to give advice to YOU for FREE.
October 22, 2007 9:30:29 AM

johnnyq1233 said:
I was really upset at 666's reply for trying to help her.
I did mention the PWM before and she slagged me for it!
I'm an electronics tech.....that means I know stuff!...........
If I didn't I wouldn't have responded to this thread (thinking I could help someone.)

Is there anyone else out there that runs a system with...ABSOLUTELY NO FANS IN THERE SYSTEM ?
I really would like to know!



Hi,
Me Almost , i have the fans in my system only there are not running.
fan for PSU, CPU, Front intake, Back Outtake disconnected from mainboard.
Only looking for a good solution for the vga card, now running at 900RPM fixed with Rivatuner.

I did this with a do-it-youself temperature control ( http://www.heatsink-guide.com ) , this way i can keep my system quiet and when needed can use my fans when overclocking or when temperature is to high it will start running automatically.

Maybe 6_6_6 can use something like this.

my specs.
MSI 965 Platinum
E6600
OCZ 900MHZ DDR2 2048mb
8800 GTS 640
---



October 22, 2007 10:09:17 AM

way to feed a troll guys

good job

!