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Best Water Cooler 2008

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January 20, 2008 10:57:46 PM

Dear all, can you please tell me which are the best watercooling kits for 2008 as all the reviews i found where 2005/6

What about Peltiers + WaterCooling combinations is it a go ?

Thanks for looking

Ramon

More about : water cooler 2008

January 20, 2008 11:37:44 PM

MCR320 + Laing D5 + D-Tek FuZion w/ Nozzle Kit + Swiftech Micro Res.
Related resources
January 20, 2008 11:48:17 PM

What are you looking to cool (components), what do you want to achieve (high OC?, quiet operation?, look cool?), and what is your budget?
January 21, 2008 3:00:26 AM

For CPU Waterblock I would have to give it a tie between the D-Tek Fuzion (with nozzle kit for quad core users) or the EK Supreme - you couldn't go wrong with either one.

As for GPU waterblock, for me, the Swiftech Stealth is far and away the better block.

Peltiers are great, I've used them for both my CPU and GPU, what do you want to know about them? It might help us a bit more in answering your questions if you answered the ones that TonyL222 asked you.
January 21, 2008 6:42:17 AM

Basically i will be insttaling the water cooling to OC my CPU and try to achieve a silent operation if possible. RE CPU i will be going either for a
January 21, 2008 4:46:07 PM

Basically i will be insttaling the water cooling to OC my CPU and try to achieve a silent operation if possible. RE CPU i will be going either for a QUAD CORE or CORE 2 DUO. Which is the best to overclock and which do you suggest.
Mainly i will be using it for Gaming and Graphic design progrmas like Corel Suite, Adobe Photoshop etc...
January 21, 2008 4:49:24 PM

I checked about the Swiftech MCR320 how come is it so well priced next to other radiators? Also would this fit on the front side of a Cooler Master Stacker 830 or how would you guys install it ?
January 21, 2008 6:50:57 PM

speed6 said:
I checked about the Swiftech MCR320 how come is it so well priced next to other radiators? Also would this fit on the front side of a Cooler Master Stacker 830 or how would you guys install it ?



Did you mean MCR220 or MCR360? You can go to the Swiftech site and the online description of each has a mech diagram with dimensions. You can see if they'd fit into the front of your case. They are excellent rads that are optimized for slow to medium speed fans (i.e., quiet). If all you want to cool is the cpu, then the MCR220 would be my choice. If you think you may want to add the gpu to the loop down the road, go with the MCR360.

- D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block & nozzle Accelerator kit - $67 (or Swiftech Apogee GTX)
- Swiftech MCP655 - $80
- Swiftech MCR360 - $45
- Swiftech MCB-120 radbox - $20 (for external mount, else not needed)
- Masterkleer 7/16" 10 ft - $6
- Swiftech MCRES-Micro - $20
- Distilled Water - $1
- 3x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SM-12 - Medium Speed $11
- 3x Fan Grills $5
- 1x Primochill Utopia - $10 (or Swiftech HydrX or Pentosin plus PT Nuke)
- 10x Tubing clamps - $5

You could substitute the 220 for the 360. Even with the 220 you could probably add a 8800 seires gpu. The temps would be higher but still probably under the cpu/gpu red line. Still, I'd go with the 360 just for expandability. One thing to keep in mind. Mount the rad in the front usually means reducing the number of available bays. You could use the radbox for a rear mount.
January 21, 2008 10:00:35 PM

Dear all thanks for all your great help! Seems that Swiftech is leading in watercooling as everyone seems going for this brand.

I did some research and found the following

The Swiftech MCRES Micro REservior seems like it has some issue, cracking near the hose fittings, cap issues and i also found a write up that if you do a larger reservior you will benefit of a 5 - 8 degrees ( is this true ??? )

What about the Cooling Works Single Bay Reservoir? any one had experience with this ? is it better than the MCRES-Micro ?

Re CPU Water BLock i will go witht he Fuzion + nozzle Accelerator, i also so this model ( Enzotech SCW-1 Sapphire CPU Waterblock, looks very PRO )

Re Coolant i think i will go for the Feser One F1 ( seems that is very good from its spec )

Swiftech MCB-120 radbox ( just found out how this works :)  neat idea ) how about to connect VGA cables with DVI connectors is it an issue ?

Swiftech MCP655 pump looks the bomb :)  also does this drain lots of power and can i use an external 12v power supply?

Re 120 Fans what type of CFM do you recommend and these are the brands i have availble to buy Scythe, Akasa, Thermaltake Smart Fan, Panaflo, Delta which brand do you recommend

re Radiator which is the best in cooling

ThermoChill PA120.2 2x120mm High Performance Radiator - $119.99
This is dual pass dual row

HW Labs Black Ice GTX240 - Black - $97.95
This is twp pass precool/aftercool

HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm - Black - $45.99
2-pass Double-row Low Pressure Drop Radiator

Swiftech MCR220-QP Quiet Power 2X120mm - Black - $39.95
2-pass single row

Logically i can say that the two pass two row is better right?

Re tubing i will be using Tygon sounds good hopefully
Re Clips are the nylon hose clamp any good ?

i think this is all

and thanks once again



January 21, 2008 10:59:44 PM

I've been using the Swiftech MCRES Micro Reservior for over a year now and I've never experienced any issues with it leaking in any way.

The Enzotech waterblock is nice but, it's all bling because it doesn't perform anywhere near what you see in other top-of-the-line CPU waterblocks.

In a dual-pass radiator the water flows down one half-side, U-turns, and back up the other half-side. For multiple row cores, dual-pass is always better and flow restriction doesn't really come into it. The vast bulk of the flow restriction in these types of cores all comes from the fittings. The pressure drop difference is insignificant when water blocks are involved, so long as the radiators have correctly designed end-tanks. Higher CFM fans are more suited for this type of radiator.

Something else that you might consider if you o'clock more than one component (i.e CPU & GPU) is # of rads and rad placement. The reason I mention this is if you o'clock both the CPU and GPU then you have to figure that both components will be giving off alot of heat. If you have just one rad then that will mean that one of the two major components will have to suffer from the heat of the other. With a single rad for the two, no matter what rad it is, the flow of the loop will bring the heat from one component to the next one and that waterblock will have to deal with two heat sources like this:

reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - gpu waterblock - rad - back to reservoir

or

reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - rad - gpu waterblock - back to reservoir

In either case, the coolant will pick up the heat from one block and carry it to the next before it hits the rad again. This means that one of the blocks will not perform like you would want it to. This is, though, only a large concern if you o'clock both components. Just know that the o'clock CPU (especially if it is a quad) will generate alot of heat by itself. This is why I advocate the use of two rads when at all possible - one after each major waterblock - to ensure neither block have to suffer the heat from the other.

Just food for thought.....
January 21, 2008 11:41:51 PM

understood 100% but i will be overclocking ny CPU only ( for the moment at least ). So if i use low speed fans would i still benefit from a dual pass dual row ?

Thanks
January 21, 2008 11:51:35 PM

Swiftech is indeed a quality maker of WC hardware, but there are also others. The MicroRes is probably the most recommended reservoir on just about every WC forum on the net that I frequent. I have one as well. No issues here. The size of the res has no bearing on cooling - certainly not 5-8 degrees. In fact, many WC'ers don't use a res, but just use a T-Line instead. A res is a little bit easier to bleed for noob. I just prefer one. Some folks may prefer a bay res. More of a personal choice and not a cooling choice.

People will argue over coolant. Fesser 1 is more expensive than the choices I gave, but will work just as well.

Fans, I like the 77CFM (medium speed) Yate Loons. I think you said you wanted to keep things quiet. Try to go for the 38mm depth fans instead of 25mm. They lessen the dead spot on the rad where the fan hub is. If you go with the BI or PA, use a shroud for even better performance. Both have higher performance that the Swiftech - but they also cost twice as much and give you maybe a few degrees better performance. Not an issue if that's what you want. Any of them will cool your setup. As you can see, I have a PA120.3 myself.

Tygon is more costly, but you will notice the difference from other brands. Probably easiest for a noob to work with. MasterKleer is very good too. The nylon hose clamps work very well, some people even use zipties.

Lots of debate on loop order. Here's my conclusion. The only MUST in loop order is that the reservoir/T-Line needs to directly feed the pump and be place higher in the loop than the pump. Some will say that the pump should feed the cpu for best head pressure. Others will say that the rad should feed the cpu 'cause its the "coolest" water. I say - other than the res/pump relationship - that order really doesn't matter in a closed loop. Rather you should order your loop to minimize the amount of tubing (direct paths between components) and minimize tight bends (restrictions). In a closed loop, the temp will tend to equalize across the entire loop, and the delta from the coolest to the hottest will only be maybe 2 degrees.
January 22, 2008 12:33:34 AM

Low CFM fans will produce some kind of result for you with the dual-pass but it won't be as effective. Generally, you would use low CFM fans with single-pass rads - though, those type are not as effective as their dual pass counterparts. If you want quiet, just stick with fans in the upper 20s to lower 30s in dBA output. In that area you should be able to get 120mm fans with a CFM anywhere from 40 - 80, which is excellent for dual-pass.
January 22, 2008 8:30:31 AM

How about for the Swiftech MCP655 pump does this drain lots of power and can i use an external 12v power supply?
January 22, 2008 9:27:36 AM

The Laing D5 and the Swiftech MCP655 are the same pump - just re-branded by Swiftech. Excellent performance with 5 speeds. Draws 2 amps, and is designed to connect to you battery via 4 pin molex. I don't see why you couldn't use an external 12v power supply.
January 22, 2008 9:49:02 AM

Great one last thing re fittings

the pump - 1/2" ID tubing

the CPU water block - 1/2" ID tubing

re Radiator this has a Fitting Thread: 3/8" BSPP (G3/8) and i cant find a fitting 3/8 threaded to 1/2 id tubing, am i doing something wrong ?

Thanks
January 22, 2008 11:07:50 AM

speed6 said:
Great one last thing re fittings


re Radiator this has a Fitting Thread: 3/8" BSPP (G3/8) and i cant find a fitting 3/8 threaded to 1/2 id tubing, am i doing something wrong ?

Thanks


You must be looking at the Thermochill. It usually comes with Polypropylene barbs (confirm first). Metal ones are hard to come by. You can try these retailers:

http://www.petrastechshop.com/ekhifig3th1o.html
http://www.ncixus.com/products/25389/63018/Thermochill/

Petra's is a great online retailer for water cooling. I also like Jabtech.com, Danger Den, Performance-PCs and Xoxide

January 22, 2008 2:07:25 PM

If you want pre-configured/pre-built go for the xpsc water cooling kit. Should cool most cpus at a very good rate.

Otherwise youll likely need to do modding and quite a bit of work to get a custom setup.
January 30, 2008 12:03:23 AM

i am buying everything from ther so if the CPU water i just told you isnt the Fauzion please suggest which one would you go for.

Thanks once again
January 30, 2008 2:25:25 AM

It is the same but you can get the Fuzion somewhere else for much cheaper than what they are selling it there for.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html

However, if you are going to get the Fuzion (and have a quad proc) than you should get the nozzle kit for the waterblock. It is designed to enhance the cooling capabilities of the block for quad procs.
January 30, 2008 3:05:54 PM

phreejak said:
It is the same but you can get the Fuzion somewhere else for much cheaper than what they are selling it there for.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html

However, if you are going to get the Fuzion (and have a quad proc) than you should get the nozzle kit for the waterblock. It is designed to enhance the cooling capabilities of the block for quad procs.


The problem is finding tham in stock. Just about everywhere they are out of stock.

That is why I went with the Dd MC-TDX when I built my friends water cooling box. I knew I could get it quickly.

-ouch1
February 14, 2008 9:44:26 PM

dear all,
my parts arrived and i can say that everything looks pro, but had some hassle figuring out some things so here we go again :) 

Parts ordered

Swiftech MCP655
Vortex XP Cpu water block
Innovatek Dual RADI
RAD BOX
XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior

Swiftech MCP655
Everything fine, dismatled to check how it works etc... saw a big silicone oring, do you recommend greasing it with some baby oil to make sure its 100% tight seal.

Vortex XP Cpu water block
Nice peace of water block very nice finish, i also noticed a piece of perspex inside the in nozzle with 7 holes like an accelerator nozzle of some sort, anyone noticed before as i will be replacing it with the accelerator nozzle for FuZion

Innovatek Dual RADI
Nice RAD but a pain in the !@# to mount fans as the holes arent threaded so i ended up sticking nuts from the underneath using instant gasget as their is no access.

RAD BOX
no prob and nice instructions

XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior
Very nice and good value for money, but machining finish could have been better especially where the threads go.

So i will be installing these into a CM Stacker 830

Setup i would like to have Radiotor mounted on the rear with the rad box, XSPC Passive reservior also on the outside to keep it cool but where would you recommend mounting it.

Also due that i have the XSPC passive reservior shall i run this configuration

Reservior - CPU water block - Pump - RAD

Or it is not recommened passing hot water from the pump ?

Thanks for looking

Ramon



February 15, 2008 1:32:57 AM

As a rule of the thumb, always have the CPU waterblock as the first point of contact for the coolant as it first leaves the pump. The reason for this is that the CPU waterblock will get the benefit of the best possible flow characteristics from the pump - having a rad immediately after a pump is going to affect the flowrate for the rest of the cooling loop. In watercooling, the one single component that is responsible for the greatest drop in flowrate is always going to be the rad - because of a combination of the fittings and the many bends and turns inherent in a rads structure.

Secondly, pumps have minimal "pulling" power (they generate flow from "pushing" liquids) and are, thus, unable to feed themselves - they have to rely on gravity for that initial contact with coolant to prime it (after which they sustain flowrate through a loop by their "pushing" power). The pump must always come AFTER the reservoir. Further, the pumps should be below the level of your reservoir to aid in the gravity feeding of the coolant. There is just no way for the pump to be primed in the setup you've given.

Ideally, your loop would be better off:

Reservoir - pump - CPU waterblock - rad - back to reservoir
February 15, 2008 2:38:00 AM

phreejak said:
The pump must always come AFTER the reservoir. Further, the pumps should be below the level of your reservoir to aid in the gravity feeding of the coolant. There is just no way for the pump to be primed in the setup you've given.


I agree with this whole heartedly. The worst thing that could happen is that your pump would run dry even briefly. This could damage the pump. You should always have the res (or T line) feeding the pump and higher in the loop than the pump.

As for the rest of the loop order - you'll find that many people have many different opinions on that. My own opinion is that in a closed loop system, the temp differences in various combinations of component order are so inconsequential that loop order doesn't really matter. With that in mind, phreejak's recommended order is as good as any. Regardless of any other considerations, try to minimize the amount of tubing used (shortest distance between connecting components) and minimize (eliminate) tight bends (and elbow connectors) which restrict flow.
February 15, 2008 4:24:28 AM

My encouragment for putting the cpu waterblock immediately after the pump was based on flow characteristics - the coolant leaving the pump will be doing so with the best possbile flowrate and pressure than at any other point in the cooling loop and I've always felt that the CPU waterblock should recieve the benefits of that, before the flow of the coolant is interferred with by the rads or any other different points of restriction that involve bends, tight turns and/ or flow channel impingements (like other waterblocks).
February 15, 2008 4:37:56 PM

But wouldnt the pump warm the water a bit due to its motor ?
February 15, 2008 6:47:46 PM

Im guessing you haven't used watercooling as if you did you would know how quick the water passes through the pump.


It makes no difference which way around you do it.
October 2, 2008 12:40:48 AM

Hey guys, i am working on this project finally and i installed the dual rad on a rad box than fitted it in the rear of the case.

Now my case was pre cut with holes for watercooling pipes and has two on the bottom rear part of the case, therefor i mounted the rad with its input and output on the lower side, is this fine as i saw lolts of people that when they mounted this type of double rad with rad box they would install them with the in / output on the upper side

please help and thanks
October 2, 2008 3:19:11 AM

This may make things difficult, initially, but when you've filled and sealed your cooling loop you should have it running and tilt your comp every which away so that the trapped air bubble in the rad tthat has the input/output at the bottom will not have any trapped air in it. Trapped air in a rad will absolutely kill it's cooling ability so you need to make certain that you've gotten all the trapped air out. That is why the preferred method of rad placement has the input/output at the top, so that air, as it rises, would have been pushed out by the flow of the coolant naturally.
October 2, 2008 12:49:57 PM

thought about trapped air, i will rotate than to be sure. Bloody Innovatek Dual RADI is so much a pain to mount fans to it.

I also thought of fitting a T near the pump so that it would be easier to drain the coolant, any model suggestion with a 1/2 id would be great.

Thanks
a c 324 K Overclocking
October 2, 2008 8:40:07 PM

Install a T just before your pump inlet so you can use the vertical run of hose and a funnel to feed your pump initially during filling. Almost every hardware store will carry these barbed fittings in their plumbing section...just make sure to get the size that fits your tubing, and allow enough tubing to keep some fluid in the line. I know that FrozenCPU has different sized ID plugs for tubing, and they even come in nifty colors. Otherwise, make sure it doesn't leak; when you shut down your pump, pressure will force coolant up your T-line...trust me on this one...plug it before you switch it off.

By they way, you know to jumper your PSU during filling/priming, right?

:) 
October 11, 2008 12:00:29 AM

Yes but i will use a regulated 12volts power supply to prime the pump. Its fine to use a 12volts power supply right?
October 11, 2008 12:09:06 AM

By the way guys you suggested i feed the pump from the reservior, should i completly fill the reservior or should i need to leave a bit of air?

Thanks
October 12, 2008 1:28:56 AM

You only need to make sure that the pump never runs dry - that is, it should never have a point when it is on where there is no coolant running through it.

You can tell if there is air in the line when the coolant goes through the pump - you will get alot of fizz, periodically, and that really hurts the flowrate.
October 12, 2008 5:18:19 PM

phreejak said:
My encouragment for putting the cpu waterblock immediately after the pump was based on flow characteristics - the coolant leaving the pump will be doing so with the best possbile flowrate and pressure than at any other point in the cooling loop and I've always felt that the CPU waterblock should recieve the benefits of that, before the flow of the coolant is interferred with by the rads or any other different points of restriction that involve bends, tight turns and/ or flow channel impingements (like other waterblocks).


Logically, I have trouble with this, phreejak. I think you are suggesting that the flow rate of the water leaving the pump is somehow faster than that of, say, at a point prior to entering the pump again (because of the cumulative restrictions of the other blocks and rad(s)), right? Let me try to illustrate what I think is wrong with your assumption. Let's assume we have a perfectly filled and bled loop - all air pockets removed and you have a continuous, unbroken band of water in a closed loop. That is sort of analogous to a freight train on a completely circular track, with an unbroken line of cars - and the front of the engine (the pump) is pressed solidly against the back of the caboose (the end of the chain). As the engine moves, all the cars have to move with it at the same rate. If there is a log or buckle any where on the track (restriction), it's the engine (pump) that has to overcome it no matter where on the track it is, and that impacts the movement of all the cars the same (flow rate). This is all because the cars on the circular track form one continuous, unbroken loop with the engine. Another way to think about it - the pump has to be pushing water into itself at the same rate that it's pushing water out, or the pump would run dry.

Now that's how my brain processes it. I don't have any testing behind this so I'm open to a different opinion, as we're all trying to learn form each other.

Flow rate IS important. But it's not flow rate or pressure per se that creates the cooling - it's turbulence within the blocks (that flow rate does contribute to). That's why the blocks have these elaborate pin structures inside - to create turbulence in the flowing liquid. Too little flow doesn't create enough turbulence. At some rate of flow, the turbulence is optimized (Martin says between 1-1.5 gpm) and additional flow does not appreciably increase cooling. In fact too much flow can cause a laminar effect and cooling will suffer
a c 86 K Overclocking
October 12, 2008 8:03:36 PM

Yea, it's a bit off. Flow rate is the same throughout the loop. Temps out of the rad are a bit cooler and if possible should be directed to the CPU first. But since the water temp is within 1-2C anywhere in the loop even placement of parts, except the res/tiline before the pump doesn't matter.
a c 324 K Overclocking
October 13, 2008 3:28:09 PM

True, at any point within the loop, you really shouldn't have high spikes in temps; that's the entire point...to maintain consistent temps. Now, your CPU or GPU's might register a higher temperature with monitoring software, but the coolant itself will most likely have negligable different in temps between the components. Water has a great thermal capacity, which allows it to extract much more heat from a component than an air cooler can within the same amount of time, especially given the same surface areas.
!