I have been building systems for 13 years. I have been overclocking for 10. I have only used air cooling. I have lapped processors, heatsinks etc., I am ready to make the leap to wc. I have done some research and it all points to some like this some like that. I am used to that. I am looking for a wc system for the following:

First wc system
q6600
gigabyte ga-p35-dsr3
case is thermaltake 6000

Second wc system
e8400
abit p35-e
8800 gts.

or I will get one for each. I was looking at kits (simply because you can always customize later and from what I have been reading they are not that "bad" ) I was looking at the following kits. xpsc water cooling kit (not sure which one though) and dander den (again not sure which one). I am looking for wc advise. You guys seem the most knowledgable about this stuff.

OH yeah and people keep quoting prices where are they getting these parts?

I really like the H20-220 Compact from Swiftech for "new" Watercoolers. It's simple, easy to use, and uses a very good radiator.

What do you want to put on the loop. You mention a Mobo/CPU in the first, does that mean you want the Northbridge cooled? In the second you also mention a GPU.

I get mine from:

www.ShopPTS.com
www.performance-pcs.com
www.frozencpu.com

Price shop parts at all 3.

Don't forget Danger Den. They are one of the best producers of liquid cooling equipment out there: http://www.dangerden.com

-ouch1

I don't like the Hardware Labs and Black Ice series of Choke Tube radiators. Too much flow restriction from most of what I've seen. Stick with Swiftech and Thermochill.

DD does make some nice stuff though.

The first system I was just going to cool the cpu. The second system I was going to cool the cpu and the graphics card. I did look at danger den however their pricing on their kits seemed high. I also sent them an e-mail requesting information and they have not responded for 3 days. The other places get right back to me. I really appreciate everyones help.

With your background, you'll find Water Cooling a breeze. Just common sense. Not ALL kits are bad. I don't know much about XSPC stuff. All I can say is that I don't see too many people recommend them. That could just mean they're not on too many radar screens.

Some other GREAT WC online retailers:

http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.petrastechshop.com/index.html
http://www.xoxide.com/
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g3 [...] oling.html
http://www.svc.com/water-cooling.html
http://www.dangerden.com/store/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/

Even though you've never WC'd before, I'd say you have the background to easily DIY and would be happier selecting individual parts. First, just do some background reading. Here's a link to some Water Cooling "Essentials":

http://www.overclock.net/water-coo [...] reads.html

I wouldnt say that they are one of the best producers. They really have only produced a line of average performing blocks, and some other problematic products. They do sell alot of good things on their site, and they are the only importer of Thermochill rads (I think at least).

The Swiftech kit mentioned earlier is a good option. DD's kits do seem a little expensive to me, but a really good custom loop is not going to come cheap. I would completely steer clear of XSPC kits. Another option is a kit from Petras Tech Shop mentioned earlier. Maybe a PTS kit for the first one, and a Swiftech kit for the second one. Of course another option is building a custom loop, which can be done pretty easily. I'll even go ahead and list the best for price and performance for each component.

CPU Block

Performance: D-Tek Fuzion and EK Supreme (Both are pretty equal in price/performance), also a Swiftech GTX w/ Copper housing is another option, with similar performance, but a higher price.

Price: Apogee GT

Accessory Blocks

Performance: Although there arent many blocks for this category, I believe the Swiftech MCW30 is the cheapest and best performing NB block. For best aesthetics, a set of 2 mosfet, NB, and SB blocks from EK are hard to beat.

Price: None

GPU Blocks

Performance: The best performing blocks, are GPU only w/ RAMsinks, however, most people believe that Full Cover blocks are much more appealing. For 8800 Cards, the Swiftech Stealth provides the performance of a GPU only block with the aesthetics of a Full Cover. For other cards, most would agree that EK makes the best looking blocks. The best Die-only blocks are the MCW-60 from Swiftech and the Fuzion GPU from D-Tek, both have similar performance, but the Fuzion has a rather large pressure drop, which is why most go with the MCW-60.

Price: The good old Maze 5's are only a few bucks cheaper than the other GPU only blocks mentioned

Radiators

Performance: Thermochill

Price: Swiftech (I really dont see why people buy other radiators than these 2)

Pumps

Performance: Many would say that the Japanese Iwakis are the best pumps, 30 ft. of head press. on the RD-30 is pretty amazing, be warned that an additional power supply and some wiring skills are required to get the most out of these pumps.

Price: The Laing D5 and DDC are the best options price wise. The DDC (sold under a few other names like the Swiftech MCP350/355) provides good head pressure, with very little heat dump, and you can buy different tops (such as Petras top) to change the tubing diameter from 3/8" to 1/2" as well as some pump properties. However, most people are switching to the D5 these days, simply because there have been alot of DDC failures (D5 also sold under other names such as Swiftech MCP655). The D5 has less head pressure, but better overall flow.

Reservoirs

Performance: There is really no performance gain to having a Res. so as long as its not that one DD bay res, or made of Aluminum, its really your choice.

Price: T-Line

Tubing

Performance: Tygon is supposed to give you better bends with less chance of kinking.

Price: Masterkleer is a cheaper option. Also, it doesnt really make much of a difference between tubing sizes, only potentially 1 or 2 degrees difference between the smallest and largest tubing.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Good break down. Just a couple of points:


CPU Block:

The Apogee GTX really doesn't need the copper top. Swiftech put it out to counter the mass internet hysteria due to misinformation about its "aluminum" top - even though the aluminum never touches the water. In any event the Fuzion tops the other two by maybe a degree.

RadiatorsRadiators

Hardware Labs Black Ice series are definitely worth considering. The GTX has beat the Thermochill PA120 is some test. Similar price.

Its true that the GTX doesn't necessarily need a copper top, but it is not true that Aluminum and Copper don't touch in the Block. It might look like there is a black plastic or Delrin cap at the on the bottom of the GTX's top, but that is just a small layer of black paint, that just flakes off after about a month or 2 of use. Which leaves copper and Anodized Aluminum in direct contact. Although I have heard no signs of corrosion due to using this block with the regular top, there are no worries with the copper top. Also, usually the GTX does get lower temps than the nozzled or un-nozzled Fuzion, even if it is just by a degree or 2.

And to set the record straight, The Black Ice GTX rads are made for different types of fans than the Thermochill PA series. For max performance on the PA rads, people usually undervolt 6 low CFM fans with great results. On the other hand the GTX rads are designed for at least 3 fans rated at 110+ CFMs. If you know much about fans, you will know that the PA almost always beat the GTX while remaining relatively quiet, while the GTX rads will lag behind a few degrees and be as lound as a fighter jet taking off. Which is why I chose the PA series over the GTX series.

Only partially true. The top is covered with thin coat of black paint - and it does quickly peel off. It's there only for aesthetics. That's why the block (and any block) should be throughly cleaned before first use. But that is not what covers the aluminum.

From Swiftech's web site:
The housing is CNC machined out of billet aluminum and receives two plating's for a lifetime protection against corrosion: electroless nickel plating (MIL-C-26074E grade B) and Zinc Cobalt plating (ASTM B 840-99 grade 6). A black die is applied after plating strictly for cosmetic appeal.

The GTX has beaten the PA120 with fans as low as 47CFM

Not a biggie. All of your info was good stuff. I didn't mean to start any sort of war of words. Let's just help the guy along.

Agreed. Also, thank you for your complements. But one thing that I forgot to mention with my OP is the potential for Galvanic Corrosion, a destructive chemical process that eats at the metal in a loop, which can be caused by using Aluminum and Copper in the same loop. I personally know somebody who scratched a plated Aluminum Waterblock (I think it was a Koolance, which should tell you something right there) screwing a barb in or something like that. A few months later he had as what I can only describe as a big green glob of gunk blocking the outlet of one of his blocks. This is why I would use the copper housing, as clumsy as I am, I would scratch it or wear some of the plating off over repeated use. Could you give me a link to that rad test w/ the BI over the TC w/ the low cfm fan?

Also, the CPU blocks I mentioned work best with Multiple cores. If you are still using old Single core or non-IHS CPUs, then I think the Best block you can buy is the Little River Storm G5, but be warned, you have to custom order one from Australia, and I hear the price is around $175. For Price, I would say the Swiftech Storm. Be warned that both of these blocks are very restrictive, so a strong pump is necessary. Also, any of the other blocks I mentioned would work well with an IHSed Single Core, but the storms would not work well with an IHSed multiple core (I have seen a High OC with a G5 user on a naked multi-core proc.).

You guys are the best thanks for the information. I think I will do a custom build I think I am mechanical and technical enough to do it. Again your help is much appreciated.

ok I have decided to use the wc on the second system. I am using an ammo 533 by coolermaster as my case. It is quite large. I think I am going to go with the H20-220 Compact kit. I looked at doing custom but it added up really fast. Especially if you go top line on all componenets. Will the h20-220 get me overclocking above air cooling? That is really my goal here. Oc over air.

Very good kit. The ammo 533 is a mid tower, right. This kit will also save you from having to place a pump and a res. You could possibly add that 8800GTS to the loop, though it will also add a lot of heat.