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Looking for input on this system

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October 25, 2007 6:01:38 PM

First, yeah i'm buying it not building it. Yes, i know i'm wasting money, but dammit i want a warrenty where i can send it back and have *them* crack it open and fix it if something goes wrong, i've had nothing but bad luck trying to install my own hardware, and have decided to restrict my involvement with this rig to adding a new HD when i run out of space, heh.

This is what i'm looking to get, any opinions are more than welcome, but please understand i can't afford to spend much more than this, that said if you tell me "you can spend 200$ here, and your system will run twice as fast" then i'm all ears.

# Case: CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Tower 420W Case W/ Side-panel Window
# CPU: Q6600 CPU @ 2.40GHz
# Cooling: Thermaltake V1 Gaming CPU Fan
# HDD: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (500GB (250GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM
#HDD2: 250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Catche
# MOTHERBOARD: (Quad-Core FSB1333) Asus P5N32-E nForce 680i SLI Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard
# MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)4GB (4x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Mushkin Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader)
# NETWORK: Intel Pro Gigabite 10/100/1000 Network Card
# OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista%u2122 Ultimate (64-bit Edition)
# POWERSUPPLY: 850 Watts Power Supplies Thermaltake ToughPower 850W
# SOUND: Creative Labs X-FI XtremeGamer 24-BIT PCI Sound Card [+89]
# VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB 16X PCI Express (XFX Extreme Edition)

I updated all my information with the changes recommended. Main differences are now i'm running 4gb of ram, on 4 sticks, i have a 850W power supply, and a q6600 CPU rather than the duel core i was going to use before. I also changed to air cooling.

My main concern now is the powersupply, the PSU calculator recommended over 1000W, so i'm not sure the 850W ThermalTake will hold up, even though it's supposed to be a really good unit at 850W

Please remember i plan to OC and eventually add another 8800GTX

More about : input system

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October 25, 2007 7:10:42 PM

Looks solid , however u MAY want to consider Q6600 instead, it depends on what u do , here is a review of Q6600 vs E6850 :
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-...
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx...

btw, do u really need watercooling , i say get a good CPU cooler instead like Tuniq Tower or Thermalright ultra 120 , with that u can save some money and then if u can get a DDR2 800 (with 4-4-4-x timings )with that $
October 25, 2007 7:15:13 PM

unfortunately this dealer doesn't offer any better RAM or i would certainly consider it, I think i'm going to move to 4 gigs of ram, and i was actually staring at the CPUs just now, trying to make up my mind, i'll definately read those reviews, thanks. As for the liquid cooling, won't it help for overclocking (especially useful if i go with the q6600 i'd assume) also i've had issues with dust in the past, so i'm really leaning towards liquid cooling, unless there is a compelling reason to avoid it... plus it's just cool =P
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October 25, 2007 7:18:42 PM

Agreed, get the Q6600 with the Ultra 120 Extreme and OC to 3G/1333 very easily. No voltage increase needed. Every now and then I see a thread about how the water leaked and torched the system. You only need water if you are doing some serious OCing.
October 25, 2007 7:34:07 PM

Won't the Asetek out preform any air cooling system though? I really would like to avoid air, unless it just doesn't make any sense at all (like it cost more *and* is less effective) Keep in mind i plan to upgrade this system, i'll probley add another GPU in a year or so, so that will increase the heat that the cooling system will have to deal with. Also it looks like with the right cooling the Q6600 can clock up to 3.5g or higher, won't liquid cooling give me the best chance of achieving that. I'm wary of purchasing a Quad core if i can't OC it near where i could OC the dual core, since the majority of the games out there right now, will not take advantage of the extra die

edit - Also, how much of a difference will doubling my ram to 4gigs make? A friend told me that with 64bit vista, i might bottleneck on two gigs.
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October 25, 2007 7:38:03 PM

a good CPU cooler (like the ones that i and Zorg mentioned) are fine ,even if u have a QuadCore +SLI , there are alot of users with good cooling and they have achieved a high OC with Q6600 ,so dont worry about watercooling , a good CPU cooler will do the job fine and also u will save some $
a b à CPUs
October 25, 2007 8:19:47 PM

Does that case come with a 420W PSU? Try to buy a case without garbage attached, maybe save some cash...

The Q6600 is smarter than the E6850. It will outperform the E6850 in Crysis and Hellgate for example. (OK, not proven, we'll see in a month. I'm basing my statement on game developers' interviews, can't guarantee it's true.)

Did your list from the original post come from the builder's URL? If yes, give us the URL so we can see what they have.

Not sure you need a network card. Modern motherboards can take care of that, usually.

Not sure you need a 680i motherboard. Do you want to add a second video card later? If not, get a P35 mobo. If you like Asus try a P5K. If not particularly, look at aBit IP35 Pro and Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R too.

Another vote for dropping the liquid cooling idea.

Add a DVD-RW (Samsung or LG).

P.S. Great rig. Don't mind me with all these comments, I'm just being picky :lol: 
October 25, 2007 9:10:27 PM

I already have a DVD RW i didn't add in the stuff i've got on it, that don't really effect preformance, like the flash drive and stuff, that's one of the reasons the price is a bit inflated. I'm buying it from cyberpowerpc (add a www and .com to that, not sure if this forum allows links)

I was under the impression that network card would be faster? if it isn't, i'll drop it in a heartbeat, at some point i think i want to try the new Killer cards, that are supposed to help alot in online games.

I *think* that's just what was stock with that case, and i should've gotten credit towards the price of my better power supply.. if that's not the case, i'll have to fish it out and ebay it.

Thanks so much for the input, my last computer i screwed up so bad, paying the extra money for RD ram because i thought it was supposed to be better, a year later a stick burned out and i had to replace the whole Mobo because it was cheaper to get a better mobo, and two sticks of better DDR ram than to try and get another stick of RDcrap

So this time i'm being extra careful, trying to do my reasearch, and get it right.

Changes from the initial posting
Added two more 1 gig sticks of ram, bringing it up to 4gigs
swapped the cpu to a q6600

I know i know, the liquid cooling isn't needed.. but i wants it! I've had too many fans fill up with dust and destroy things before i relized there was a problem. I lost a processor that way, and i think that some of my parts on my current rig are damaged due to that happening in the past... freakin' throws stop errors on me, that's why i'm upgrading. (that and it's 4 years old)

How's my mobo? Will it be able to handle overclocking? Can i get away with the P5N-E, 650i Likewise will the Striker Extreme give me a lot better results? The price difference is 100$ in either direction, so let me know. =)
a b à CPUs
October 25, 2007 9:29:12 PM

I'm not qualified to compare network cards with integrated network on the mobos, sorry. Hopefully somebody knows and can tell us. I did read several posts saying the Killer cards are not worth it.

Liquid cooling requires changing the liquid from time to time, I believe. Also, it may leak. It's not 100% worry free, that is. Oh well, if you want it and you worked hard to earn the money for it, why not. Just keep in mind that a $200 liquid cooling solution is often worse than a $100 air cooling solution. The benefits of liquid cooling show up only if you spend a bunch.

Will you add a second video card later? If yes, keep the P5N32-E SLI 680i that you have there, it's perfect, it lets both cards work at 16x (the 650i doesn't do that). If not, get a P5K motherboard i.e. still Asus but based on the P35 chipset.

Forget the Striker Extreme, it's overpriced and it's unfriendly for us normal people. It's designed for maniacs (oops, I meant enthusiasts who actually appreciate having LCD panels inside the case, and truckloads of overclocking options in the BIOS). Plus, there are a lot of unhappy people talking about it in forums. I wanted to buy one earlier this year but I got scared and gave up after doing the ressearch.

October 25, 2007 9:34:00 PM

I'm not worried about changing the fluid, but your other comment about liquid cooling worries me. Are you saying my Asetek will actually cool *worse* than some aircooling systems?

I will likely add another video card later, so yeah, i'll stick with that mobo I've also heard bad things about the striker extreme, though i am the kind of guy who likes LCD panels in the case, i've had so much hardware break on me, and not known why (or worse, not known what), i'd really like to have some great monitoring systems on my side, heh.
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October 26, 2007 1:48:43 AM

Sorry, I have no idea about Asetek. Try finding some reviews. I'm just saying that a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme can keep a CPU cooler and push it higher than some (low-end) liquid cooling or TEC solutions which do cost more than the Thermalright. I've read this in reviews and forums, not real personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah, you definitely should do some research on the Asetek. For all I know it may be the best cooling solution ever invented :) 

October 26, 2007 1:06:04 PM

hm, unfortunately all they're calling it is the "Asetek liquid cooling system" And aren't giving me any more specifics than that, i'll have to talk to thier support and see what exactly they're selling. Considering, i ordered it already.. i might have a problem =/
*edit* hmm.. this "Integrated pump, reservoir and cold plate in one compact device that is smaller than a traditional heat sink."

and this

"The possibility of daisy chaining cold plates can provide cooling for multiple components, such as 2x CPU or CPU plus graphics.
Building block principle. The solution can be tailored to accommodate different form factors, performance and noise levels. Possibility for system board cooling, for instance, cooling several components on a graphics card."
lead me to believe all they're going to do is cool the cpu with this thing.. if that's the case i'm going to be annoyed >=/
October 26, 2007 3:56:33 PM

Ok, update. The Asetek unit is indeed a single cold plate attached to a radiator/fan unit. With that in mind, is it worth the extra 35$ to upgrade to a "Vigor Gaming Monsoon II Lite CLT-M2LI LGA775 CPU air con unit"? That's the only really high end fan they offer.

Also a tech told me i might have trouble if i tried to add a second GPU with my 750W PSU, is that somthing i have to worry about? Taking into consideration i definately plan to overclock the CPU, and may overclock the GPU(s).
a b à CPUs
October 26, 2007 4:16:38 PM

Why do u always want the most expensive ones ?
that Vigor Mansoon II lite is one of the best CPU coolers, but its expensive why dont u go with TuniqTower or Thermalright 120 (or even OCZ VINDICATOR , i love mine) , they are all good CPU coolers , here is a review:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=296...

as u see the coolers i mentioned perform closely to each other

a b à CPUs
October 26, 2007 4:22:56 PM

The Monsoon is noisier than most air coolers, I wouldn't buy it for that reason alone.

PSU: yes, even the best 750W PSU out there (the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W) can be defeated if you have a Quad and two GTX cards and a ton of other things. It can handle a quad and two 8800 gtx cards and a bit of overclocking and 3 disks or so, but if you intend to have a lot more than that then it's too much for it.
Read the customer review signed "Steamroller" here.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
The guy needs his behind kicked for giving a bad review when in fact it's 100% his fault. The power calculator recommended 866W for his entire monster setup, so he's an idiot if he blames a 750W PSU for failing to handle it all. I don't know about the Toughpower 750W but that's also a high-quality PSU and I'm guessing it's exactly the same situation.

If you think you'll have a problem like that then get the Toughpower 850W. I read some excellent reviews about that one.
October 26, 2007 4:24:18 PM

nope, i don't want the most exspensive one, but it's 33$ more than what i was going to pay anyway, and unfortunately the site i'm buying from https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ doesn't have any of the coolers you mentioned.

The Vigor is definately better than the liquid cooler then? That's dissapointing, i really did want to go liquid this time... also, any input on the PSU thing, that's got me worried more than anything, i was always told 750W was enough, and the thermaltake toughpower is supposed to be very high effeciancy. But i certainetly don't want to have to upgrade my power supply if i want to add and OC another GPU
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October 26, 2007 4:31:28 PM

You cant say Vigor is better than liquid cooling, they are completely different , Watercooling cools with Water and those CPU fans work with air, so u cant compare them, if u want to OC , then the toughpower will be enough , but if u want to add another 8800GTX , then u have to get another PSU , u maybe surprised , but OCZ GAMEXSTREAM 700W can handle 2 8800GTX :
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36461

The OCZ 700W GameXstream power supply can run Crossfire, two Geforce 8800 GTX in SLI and all the peripherals and it even beats some of the 850W that we had in our hands. This is the best buy high end PSU at the same time as in Germany it costs just around €125. We love it as we know that it won't crash in the middle of 3Dmark05 with Crossfire or SLI. It can run FX62 setup just as well as Core 2 Extreme 2.93 setup as it has the power."

other alternatives are : Thermaltake toughpower 1200W , OCZ GAMEXSTREAM 850W, OCZ PROXSTREAM 1000W
October 26, 2007 4:32:34 PM

i'm running two optical drives, 3 hard drives (2 in a raid0 array) a gtx8800(but i want the PSU to be able to handle 2 OC'd) the q6600 that i'm going to OC to at least 3gigs, and 4mb of RAM....

So it looks like the 750 definately isn't enough.. that said is the 850 going to be enough or do i need to look at the 1000W model?
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October 26, 2007 4:38:45 PM

well the most important thing for PSUs is Amp, then Wat , for example , the OCZ PROXSTREAM 1000WAT PSU provides 80A on 12v rails which is more than enough or OCZ GAMEXSTREAM 850W provids 72A on 12v rails which is very good too , so u have to see how much Amp the PSU provides on 12v rails
October 26, 2007 4:38:45 PM

Just saw your post Maziar, good god, do i really need the Thermaltake 1200W now *that's* pricy, a good 130$ more than the 750, again i'd go with your 700W recommendation, but it's not an option with the builder i'm dealing with.

And sure you can say the Vigor is better or vice-versa, i'm interested in which ever will keep the CPU the coolest, i don't care about how they go about doing it, i just want the machine to run safely with a moderate OC. The low noise is a plus, but it's better than my parts breaking down, or wearing out faster due to heat issues.
a b à CPUs
October 26, 2007 4:38:50 PM

Here's what they have:

Vigor Gaming Monsoon II Lite CLT-M2LI LGA775 CPU
Thermaltake V1 Gaming CPU Cooling Fan
Thermaltake MaxOrb Enthusiast CPU Cooling Fan
Artic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooling Fan
CoolerMaster Hyper TX2 Gaming CPU Cooling Fan
CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling System
Asetek Liquid CPU Cooling System

I would get the Thermaltake V1. Lots of happy people reviewing it at newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835106102&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=100&SelectedRating=-1&Page=
a b à CPUs
October 26, 2007 4:45:19 PM

About the PSU: from the choices you got at that URL, I'd pick the Toughpower 850W. The 750W is enough (I mean, yes, it is enough). The 850W will make you feel better, and give you more room for more disks later, so I guess it's worth the additional cost anyway.

October 26, 2007 4:51:44 PM

Thanks for taking a look at the URL, i know you guys could probley do more for me if i were building it myself and could buy whatever components i wanted, but as i mentioned in my OP, i've just had way too many mishaps involving hardware to want to do more than slide something into a PCI slot.

So the 850W will be comfortable with two 8800GTX's and the Q6600? Then i'll buy that, it's really a nominal price difference, hell i even get a bigger rebate if i remember to mail it in.

I'd get the 1200W if i needed it, like i said, the last thing i want are all my exspensive parts crashing and getting extra wear, that's why i'm so worried about the cooling and power.

That fan does look like it's getting good reviews, one nice thing about the aircon though is it might help keep my case temp cooler, i'm a little worried about my GPU since they don't offer any upgrades to the stock cooling there.
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October 26, 2007 4:57:24 PM

No worries. The 8800 GTX has an excellent stock cooler. The only after-market cooler for it that may be worth buying is Thermalright HR-03, but it's expensive and very few people need it. Your case is absolutely great for cooling anyway, especially if you add SFF21E fans in the 7 optional fan mounts.
October 26, 2007 6:26:47 PM

Ok i swapped out the 750w thermaltake in favor of thier 850w, i also finally caved on the liquid cooling, i'd still prefer liquid, but i could find very little information on either of the system they used, and both just cooled the fan, i wanted a complete liquid cooling system that would handle everything. I went with the Thermal take V1, as even the bad reviews on newegg said it cooled well, they just didn't like how it was attached to the CPU. Thanks for all your help guys.

One thing they told me on the phone was that thier "default fan" was the PSU fan... and they could add up to three fans but they couldn't tell me what size, or what brand because that could vary based on how they decided to setup the system. So i guess i'm going to be buying them after market.... it can't be hard to install a fan?... can it?
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October 26, 2007 7:16:37 PM

The fans they offer cost $3. The SFF21E fans I picked for my own case $19 and do 20 dB. I have no idea how good their $3 fans are but I'm guessing they're lower quality and noisy. Refuse them.

You're in the US, which means you have more choices than I did. Some other good silent fans, apart from Scythe S-Flex: Nexus, Noctua, Yate-Loon.

Installing a case fan is easy. This guide can help.
http://www.cheapcomputersandparts.com/11-case-fan.html

I can't decide for you about SFF21F vs SFF21E. Think for a while and decide yourself. You can get 7 SFF21F for $14 each or 7 SFF21E for $20 each (in both cases I included shipping). With the SFF21F you save $42 and get a heck of a lot more air moving around, but you may have a noise problem. SFF21F is not really higher quality than SFF21E. It works at 1600 rpm instead of 1200 rpm and it makes 29 dB instead of 20 dB. The additional 9 dB, plus the additional whooshing from the increased amount of air moving around, may end up being a pest. Really don't know. I went for SFF21E myself, but I care about noise more than others (I watch DVDs and listen to music on the PC a lot) and I only have a single 8800 GTX and I haven't overclocked and I have only 5 case fans and the SFF21F/SFF21E were the same price in my city. For you it's much harder to decide.

Edit: OK, crazy thought. If the case allows you to add 7 fans but you only add 4, that should still help, right? Maybe somebody can help us with this. The theory is to add all the fans you can, but TBH a case with a total of 9 fans sounds excessive, even for 8800 GTX SLI and overclocked quad.

October 26, 2007 7:34:59 PM

Are 7 fans actually useful? Also, how would i set this up, they seem to be in wierd spots..

from coolermasters site:

Support up to 9 x 120 mm fans :
Front fan x 3,top fan x 1, rear fan x 1,side fan x 4,
(side fan tray can be installed with 140 mm fan)

I'm assumin they'll put the PSU fan in the back, so i'll have the top front and side fans to work with...
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October 26, 2007 7:42:43 PM

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, that's an awful lot of fans. How about getting only 4 now (so you get newegg's discount). If you do this send an e-mail to CoolerMaster's support and ask where to put them for best results.
October 26, 2007 8:05:27 PM

*edit* nm, i read that wrong i guess.. looks like you can transfer some of your slots into HDD bays with even more fans, yeesh.
October 27, 2007 7:34:39 PM

yeesh.. after i ran my rig through PSU calculator it recommended a 1050 watt power supply, is the 850 thermaltake really good enough to make up the difference? I know you guys were saying the amps it pushed made it better than some higher watt supplies.

updated all my stuff at the top, so no one is confused as to what i'm running, remember now i've got twice as much ram and a quad core, also remember i plan to OC and eventually run a second 8800GTX
a b à CPUs
October 27, 2007 11:47:00 PM

I only get 762W, even with 2 DVD, 9 fans, 5 USB devices, all sorts of PCI cards, and overclock to 3.2 GHz.

Did you select Single processor? If you selected Quad processor then your result is counting the Q6600 4 times.
October 28, 2007 2:33:56 AM

oops... yeah, that would be what i did... Thanks =)
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