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[New System Build] Building a new system I have some questions

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October 21, 2007 7:09:55 PM

I am looking to build a new system, I am interested in overclocking but unsure about it or how to do it. I would like to go as far as i can using a koolance 1100 watt liquid cooling system.

I would like to keep this under $2,000 (meaning not go over if at all possible.

This computer will be multiuse (gaming, work, video editing, image editing and audio authoring)

Games I play are Joing operations, Starwars night of the old republic, splinter cell, far cry, and others.

I usually use it at over 1152X864 or more, but no less than 1152 if possible.

I currently do not use multi monitors but I have and will plan on in the future.

I had origonally thought of using the ASUS L1N64-SLI WS Dual L (1207FX) NVIDIA nForce 680a SLI MCP SSI CEB AMD Motherboard

with

AMD Opteron 2344HE Barcelona 1.7GHz Socket F Quad Core Processor Model OS2344PAL4BGE -

However i have been told that currently the mobo does not support quad cores and may support the new AMD PHenoms due out in a few weeks. I have seen some threads for bios tweaks that may allow the current AMD Opteron 2344HE Barcelona's to work, but I am not sure. the talk of b1 and b!...any how.. with that said I think i will look at a set up like this. MY thoughts are AMD and ASUS are so tight lipped on the new k10's because they are barcelonas and to realeas anything now would possible avail a way to use current core barcelonas.. but hey thats just my thought.

One thing I realize is that with the below set up i really dont have much of an upgrade path, and that weighs heavy on me. I would love to consider the ASUS mobo and maybe just one dual core (seeing as i cant find a quad to work in it yet and that from what I read that so far it will be Nov this year or sometime first of 08 that quads might work on it)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Black Edition Processor Model ADO5000DSWOF - Retail$129.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Processor Model ADO5200CZBOX - Retail$119.99

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail$174.99

CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 G - Retail $249.99

ASUS EN8600GTS/G/HTDP/256M GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail$169.99X2=$339.38

Thermaltake Toughpower W0133RU ATX12V / EPS12V 1200W Power Supply $379.99

Exos-2, Black [10mm, 3/8"] $244.99

CPU-330 Need $49.99

CHC-120-V06 $39.99

CHC-120-V06 $39.99

VR-AS39 $29.99

VR-AS40 $29.99

GPU-180-L06 X2 Need $31.99 X2= $63.98

RAM-30-V06 (Dual DDR/DDR2/SD) [6mm, 1/4"] Need $49.99

Shutoff Valve, 10mm Pair w/ L-Bracket Need $29.99

AeroCool XtremeTurbine-Black 120mm Case Fan - Retail $15.99 X3= $47.97

Nozzle Pair, G 1/4" Swivel Angled [6mm, 1/4"] $12.99X3

Nozzle Pair, G 1/4" Barb [10mm, 3/8"] $7.49X3

Tubing Splitter, Y 13/10-6mm, Quad $24.99 X3

Tubing Splitter, F 10-6mm (Metal) $10.99 X3

Universal Nozzle Body [no nozzles] $4.99 +
Nozzle Pair, G 1/4" Barb [10mm, 3/8"]
$7.49 +
Nozzle Single, G 1/4" Barb [10mm, 3/8"]
$3.74 X2= $32.44

Radiator, HX-362 Single 120mm [no nozzles] $29.99 +
Fan, 120mm Blue LED
$12.99 +
Nozzle Pair, G 1/4" Swivel Angled [10mm, 3/8"] $14.99= $57.97

The biggest qusetion is on memory and CPU's.

Most of these parts are on newegg and koolance. I dont see the use of dual SLI with top of the line VGA's at the moment so i went with older models with SLI to make up for it but would consider ONE tops of the line VGA. Not sure what the benefits would be so that would be nice to look at. I dont need the newest or the best I am mostly looking for compenets that compliment each other and allow for a varied work load as I do use this machine heavily in various areas, games, and image,video,audio authering and ofcourse in data transfers.

I am not sure on the memory and what works. WHat I picked is not listed on the recomended memory for the mobo, but it seems to have worked well for others, and I currently run windows XP and am not sure when or if I will upgrade to Vista soon, so i cant see using more than 4 gigs, but if i can get 8 gis to run under xp would like to if that makes sense and is worthwhile.

This will all go into my current full tower case. As at the moment i dont see a reason to upgrade the case.

Some of these parts I may not use in the liquid cooling system, this was just my parts/price list.

Now at the begining of this post i mentioned the new ASUS Mobo, and i brought that up because I also posted about it in one of Sanji's posts, (5 months after last post) So if you dont mind i am going to include that post here and try to get some feedback on it as well.

Just a quick note, in reference to the possibility of using ASUS L1N64-SLI WS Dual Socket L (Socket 1207FX) NVIDIA nForce 680a SLI MCP SSI CEB AMD Motherboard and the AMD Opteron 2347 Barcelona 1.9GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB shared L3 Cache Socket F Quad Core Processor. The theory is that this should work however according to AMD this mobo's BIOS currently does not support quad core. I have also heard that the registered and un registered argument would make these components incompatibles as well as the pins (or lack thereof, as my understanding is that the back side of these chips have no pins but a flat area)

However keep your eye out for the AMD Phenom coming 2007/2008 and this should be a great combo with the support in bios of quad core from this motherboard. Hope this help's would have been great to set up an octa-core system. Thing is I cant find if Asus has an update for their BIOS already for this. The mobo will take the Athlon 64 FX-70 no problem. So where is the difference. If you look here you see the Barcelona listed so this should work. With a little research I also found out that the new Phenom’s are based on Barcelona cores with just the no pin die. I was just caught by this post and got hooked on the idea of what you could do. For those of you who say why OC a 1.9 GHz to 2.8 or 3.0. I use liquid cooling, and when you look at the AMD architecture and run windows vista you see that this setup truly makes sense and in a MEGA tasking way, works well. I for one don’t want just a gaming system as I also do lots of video production and audio authoring.

Good Work Sanj, keep it up and keep looking for more information.
Maybe someone can dig up more info on this topic, i for one would like to know more.

here is I think a list of the processors supported by this mobo ASUS-L1N64-SLI WS.
http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLan...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
October 23, 2007 8:41:41 PM

ANYONE???
WOW the thread has been read 48 times and not a single comment. Would love some help or input please.
October 24, 2007 12:14:59 AM

If it was shorter, I think people would respond to it. Way to long. Your topic says you have questions. Where are they?

Don't bother with the server board. It's like $300-400. Are you gonna run 2 chips for a total of 8 cores? I see ASUS hasn't updated the bios to support Barcelona. Give them some more time. BTW, Phenom will come in as AM2+, not Socket F for the server board.

No contest. The best AM2 overclocker is 590 SLI. If you're serious about SLI or overclocking, get one. I have mixed feelings about the M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless. I owned one, but it was unstable when overclocked. ASUS might've fixed it with bios. I'd look at EVGA 590 SLI.

Again, if you overclock, you get the 5000+ Black edition. Period.

Now the most important thing for the AM2 platform is memory. Get as fast & tight-timing memory as you can afford if you overclock. At least Cas4. Ballistix is perfect, but the rebate has expired.
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October 24, 2007 1:26:53 AM

Also your build is so completely out there that it's tough to know where to start........

1) You configured SLI on the 8600GTS?? Start with a single 8800GTS and add another later. Your setup is slower and more expensive thant some of the 8800GTS cards and is not expandable.
(Note: The 8800GT will ship next week and will likely be a better, faster, cheaper card.)

2) 1200W GPU?? The 750w Quad from PC Power and Cooling will rip through just about anything you can build and about 1/2 the price.

3) And Why again do you think you need all that Water Cooling before you even get anything that needs excessive cooling? The Black Edition will not benefeit from it if you read some of the reviews.

4) Get a Simple Mobo, and wait for a real AM2+ or AM3 Mobo to be released with Barcelona. Otherwise you will hit some limits with the your CPUs, particularly if you are planning on Dual Barcies seriously OC'd. Replacing a mobo is not that difficult and you can get one really designed for that purpose.

5) The Current Barcelona's are something you want to hold off. You want the Desktop Versions, not the Server Versions. The current ones will likely OC very poorly since AMD was not able to release them at the speeds they wanted so very few likely have a high ceiling. Wait until the new stepping is released with the desktop versions which is supposed to let them hit higher speeds.

6) The Resolution you mentioned was VERY small. I hope you plan on getting a 22" or 24" Monitor and running at 1900x1200 or your setup looks even more strange.

7) Not even going to Wonder way you not going to Clock a G0 Q6600 to the low 4.0ghzs with Water Cooling and outperform anything AMD is going to release in the next year.

October 24, 2007 2:27:05 AM

Drop the water cooling and get a quality aftermarket HS and fan (ask others). Don't get the server board. Wait a week and get a single 8800GT. Get 4GB RAM. Try the 750W PSU, there is no conceivable reason to get a 1200w model. You shouldn't spend more on the board or PSU than on the processor.
October 24, 2007 7:55:46 AM

The questions were more about the Asus L1 mobo and quad/octa-core possibilities. My

planned rig was just the general question of "hey guys what do you think, got tips

suggestions or ideas on how to make it better. As for the water cooling I have always

wanted it and its mostly for an upgrade path. I have used lots of fans and HS and my

overall complaint is they go out. just went through 2 in 4 months and lost a mobo and

graphics card due to fan deaths. I figure if I can get water cooling, and use it for

my whole sytem, then do it. That and my wife has the constant complaint of "more

computer parts, didnt we just buy some a few months ago?" I know she doesnt get it,

but i would like a system to last a few years..(I know that goes against the old moores

law but hey. I am not buying the ASUS L1 MOBO, not worth it for just a quad core using

2 dual cores to me. But it does look promising. I have been without "my" pc for a few

months, trying to save the money to upgrade, but i am tired of being on my second hand

duct tape mcgyvered pc built on my spare parts. Hey Sanji's guides got me going on this. mostly his guide to gaming on a budget and the QuadFX GTS Build .
October 24, 2007 7:56:24 AM

Ok so lets just keep the water cooling call me stuborn. question: what are your

thoughts on the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz (black editon/box)? I would

lose the dual SLI if it was recomended to just buy one top of the line graphics card.

The reason i like the ASUS 590 wireless or just the ASUS 590 deluxe is for 1394 and

dual gig ethernet jacks, as those two things are vital to my current set up. I am

alsways open to suggestions and if you had one and ididnt like it or it didnt perform

well, let me know, offer a solutin. My whole rig set up is just my starting point, i

brougt it up to "let the forum pros" tweek it and help me out, I wouldnt have asked if

i wasnt interested in your help and information. Fast and tight timings for memory, i

know thats important but i confess i have no clue when it come to timing or

multipliers. I just know the more GHz the better, and...and that in as far as i know

or have read, XP doesnt like more than say 4 gigs. Tell me if i am wrong and show me

the solution please, this is a learning experience for me as well.

I have read some of the reviews and most say that k8s dont go well past 2.8-3.xx.
October 24, 2007 7:56:51 AM

Questions:
I want a good upgrade path, and call me an AMD fan boy, or brainwashed, i just like em

so i dont mind.

1)So is it a bad time to upgrade with the new "phenoms" comming out, is there still

life in AMD processors before k10? IF I am using water cooling what would the best AMD cpus be?

2) so wait a few weeks and go for an 8800?

3) Is 4 gigs of memory enough? high end user on xp for now but may upgrade to vista later.. so go for something like Crucial Ballistix with 4-4-4-12 timmings and CAS lat of 4 and 2.2V? And do i want 2.2v or 1.8v?

4)Keeping in mind 1394 and dual gig ethernet, do you have suggestions on Mobos other than the two ASUS 590s (opps one is a 570, just noticed that) what about this one ASUS M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition ?

1200 watt PSU, well i went with that for upgradability, and thinking of dual SLI now or future. I currently have a 520 or 550 PSU. It was 1000 WATT PSU and 1100 WATT liquid cooling. But I can see that 750-800 PSU might suffice.
October 24, 2007 8:07:50 AM

dfg said:


questions:

Quote:
The biggest qusetion is on memory and CPU's.


Quote:
Most of these parts are on newegg and koolance. I dont see the use of dual SLI with top of the line VGA's at the moment so i went with older models with SLI to make up for it but would consider ONE tops of the line VGA. Not sure what the benefits would be so that would be nice to look at
.

Quote:
I am not sure on the memory and what works. WHat I picked is not listed on the recomended memory for the mobo, but it seems to have worked well for others, and I currently run windows XP and am not sure when or if I will upgrade to Vista soon, so i cant see using more than 4 gigs, but if i can get 8 gis to run under xp would like to if that makes sense and is worthwhile.


As to why this was so long:


Quote:
Now at the begining of this post i mentioned the new ASUS Mobo, and i brought that up because I also posted about it in one of Sanji's posts, (5 months after last post) So if you dont mind i am going to include that post here and try to get some feedback on it as well.



Dealing with the Asus L1 mobo things i read that I wanted to know more about and was asking if people knew more as i was finding it difficult to find answers.

Quote:
There are/going to be three kinds of AMD Phenom processors. The Phenom X2, Phenom X4

and Phenom FX. Two processors will be bought in a package. The X2 versions is dual core

per processor, wich will use the Socket AM2+ motherboards. The X4 versions is both dual

core and quad core per processor, and will use both Socket AM2+ and Socket F

motherboards. The FX versions is both dual and quad core per processor, but more

high-end, and will use only socket F. Wich means by the end of the day you will get the

octa-core (eight cores) on one motherboard.

Socket F, or Socket 1207+ motherboards will be using DSDC (Dual Socket Direct Connect)

architecture, wich will enable the octa core usage.

It's expected that these processors will be launched mid november.

also just looking at this site. http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32013/135/

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=425

here is I think a list of the processors supported by this mobo ASUS-L1N64-SLI WS.
http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLan...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...


I am ready to let the forum help and just tried following Proper Build Suggestion Post Information

Quote:
sanji-guide-computer-parts-builds#t1622851


So, you're ready to let the members here at the forum tweak/create a build for you. Here is a simple format you can use!

.................................................................................................

Am I overclocking? (Yes, no, or I'm interested but currently unsure about overclocking)
If yes, how much will you be overclocking? (Very little, as far as I can on stock voltage, as far as I can with minor voltage increase [less than 10%], as far as possible on air, or as far as possible on water)

What is my budget? ($ amount. Specify if Canadian or USD)

Usage of the Computer? (Gaming, work, HTPC, Video Editting, Image Editting ...)

What games do you play? (Specify what games you play, if any)

What resolution do you use your computer at? (Specify resolution)

Do you use multiple monitors? (Yes or no)

Do you have any additional questions or comments? (List them here)
October 24, 2007 1:05:50 PM

You were right Phenom FX is Socket F. Only 2 will be out. The rest will be socket AM2+ (backward compatible). Differences between the 5000+ & 6400+:

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=...
http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=...

The major ones are 65nm (5000+) vs 90nm (fry your eggs) & 72'c vs 63'c (max safe temp). Both are unlocked.

One overclocker took 5000+ to 3.7Ghz on air. On H20, it's easy. I'm o/cing my 5000+. The only limits right now are heat & multiplier (up to x13). The 590 SLI has like any multipliers. Ok, basically:

200 x 13 = 2600

HTT x multiplier = cpu speed. Overclocking is not that simple on AM2. There's a ram divider. Take my o/c for example:

317 x 10 = 3170Mhz CPU
667 / 400 = 1.6675 (ram divider) x 529 x 2 = 1058Mhz RAM

This is a compromised overall speed. Find the max HTT (FSB) mobo speed, max GHZ cpu speed & max Mhz ram speed. See how important the ram is on AM2. Micron D9 is the best. With OCZ 800mhz RAM, I couldn't get that fast.

Just give us a shout in the o/c forum when you want to o/c it.

My suggestion:

EVGA nForce 590 SLI AM2 (don't ever install ntune which will cause instability after months of use)
http://evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=122-M2-NF59-AX...

Crucial Ballistix 2 x 1GB PC2-6400 (yes, rebate is back)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This just in. Your favorite board will be AM2+ compatible after a bios update.

http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=8305

If you can wait a month more, there'll be more AM2+ boards from MSI, Gigabyte & DFI. I have already seen the boards. Tri-crossfire. Not your thing. So 590 SLI is what you want. You can throw the Phenom at AM2. Just a few features will be missing. The only major socket upgrade will be in late 2008/early 2009 - Socket AM3.

You put your other parts together & post the list again.
October 24, 2007 3:48:33 PM

And drop the water cooling. What happens when the cooling leaks and fries your MB processor, and video card? If you get a quality fan/heatsink and case, you fans won't die.
!