the X1950PRO Vs 8600GT Vs HD2600XT delima !

Hi ,

This is a Refresh to a a couple of weeks thread started by me , were I was being helped to chose a new budget gfx card for 1024x768 gaming ( max 1280 since my monitor is a 17CRT ) .

Which leaded to : Get a X1950XT or a 8600GTS .

I decided to wait a few weeks , tipped by a local shop , for new prices to come .. and it did .

and I even got a $50 from selling some old hardware .. so now my max money to buy a gfx card is $150 - $160

but prices here are a 20% to 35% more expensive than the US or online , before you jump to conclusions .

anyway The X1950XT is out of stock

The current $150 cards here are :

Powercolor X1950 PRO - 256 GDDR3 - PASSIVE COOLED
Galaxy/Chaintech 8600GT - 256 GDDR3 - ( 560 / 1400 )
Powercolor Radeon HD 2600XT - 256 GDDR3

notes :

1. from the way I see it , the X1950 PRO owns in some games / yet sometimes the 8600gt and 2600xt get to it or surpass it ..

2 . I play in 1024x768 only and I cant really tell a diffrence between 35 - 40 fps to 60 - 70 fps ..
(I expect to play Bioshock(finished) - HL2Ep2(finished) - Crysis - Timeshift(playing) - COD4 - Hellgate ) and I am not intrested in any RTS at all .

3. please do not suggest the 8800GTS as i simpyl wont pay that amount of money ( $450 here ) for a graphics card .. out of the question .

4. I saw a OC review , where the 8600GT with normal coolbits OC reached stock performance of a 8600GTS , there for the extra $80 diffrence in price between the 8600gt and the GTS are useless .

so I am down to these 3 cards , which will play the new games released nowadays and months to come in 1024x769 with almost all eyecandy on .

5. I am not very intrested DX10 features but I am intrested in a DX10 card .. meaning that If turning off some DX10 features would give me more performance on a DX10 or even the DX9 one ( X1950 Pro )card then its totally ok with me . and i dont like vista that much either .

6. I am ready to upgrade GPU in 1 year or so .

current specs :

AMD Athlon X2 5600+ ( 3.0 GHZ )
2x 1gb Kingston ValueRams
Geforce 7300GT ( 700/1600 ) 256 GDDR3 Zalman Edition .

I am must make a purchase today or tommorrow , since the 7300GT is going and iwill be stuck with the X1200 built in the mobo , which is useless . so please help me >

I am really glad to be here with all you gurus , Thanks alot in advance .

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ahh sorry , one more thing

I just noted that in current games , the X1950PRO really shows its power with 4XFSAA / 8XAF in 1024 and 1280

but would Crysis be runnable at 1024 with medium./high settings without FSSA/AF with a 1950PRO ? or would the 860GT utilize the technology better ?

Reply to cryptonx

Quote :

1. from the way I see it , the X1950 PRO owns in some games / yet sometimes the 8600gt and 2600xt get to it or surpass it ..

Sorry, I've never seen the 8600GT surpass the x1950pro. Care to link where that happened? I've seen the demo of UT3, where the 2600XT is the top card in this price range, but for the most part it is beneath the x1950pro. (more so once you turn the details up or enable AA/AF. The 256bit memory bus is simply to much for the 2600/8600.)

You didn't list any prices, so I'm not sure which is the best bang for buck in your case. I believe the fastest of the lot is the x1950pro. The 2600XT is faster then the 8600GT, but as you mentioned, the GT can be overclocked to (near) GTS speeds, so it would then be the fastest. If its in your budget, I'd get the x1950pro. It might not be the fastest at all games, but its the best $120-$140 card out there overall. After that, its a toss up between the 8600GT/2600XT.

Reply to 4745454b

Thank you so much .

I never tried ATi before , and especialy what I hear about instable drivers .. and even THG crashed 2600XTs in some tests .. ( Bioshock I think ) .

I always use a Geforce mid-range card ( history : Riva TNT - Geforce 2 - Geforce 3 ti200 - Geforce 6600 - Geforce 7300GT )

back to the point , I love the overclockability of the 8600gt as for the LINK of the 8600 being better than a X1950 pro , well here goes :

Warhammer : All nivida 8xxx cards perform the same !!! from the 8800GTX to the 8600GT , all beating any thing ATi ! ( i will never play that game though , I hate RTS ) might try supreme commander tho .

http://www23.tomshardware.com/grap [...] &chart=303

Another case ,
Microsoft Flight Sim X , Aagain the 8600GT SMOKED anything ATi ( e ven the 2900 )

http://www23.tomshardware.com/grap [...] &chart=289

Yet thats another game I wont play !

Not to mention that the 3Dmark06 scores with SM2 , the 8600GT is beter yet the X1950 is in SM3 .

What I really want is areal benchmark for nowadays FPS between the 8600GT/X1950 pro
as Crysis / Timeshift/ Bioshock / Jericho / COD4 demo / PES08 .

This is what will really tell which card I should get .

PRICE : the 3 of these cards cost $150 exactly here , I dont want to pay a penny more !

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by cryptonx on 11-03-2007 at 10:16:37 AM

Reply to cryptonx

X1950 PRO

Reply to ramo

Well some ppl on other forums

reporting that they can run Crysis on 1280x1024 with a mix of high/med settings .
WITH THE X1950 .

so I am gonna run it at 1024 then its a go For me !

Thanks everyone .

This concludes this year Graphics Card Purchacse !! Thanks again THG !!

The Powercolor ATi Radeon X1950 PRO 256 GDDR3 - Passive Cooled it is !
Btw is the PASSIVE COOLING thing a good thing or a bad thing ? I intend to OC it a bit ( no volt mods , just software OC ) .

Message edited by cryptonx on 11-03-2007 at 12:34:14 PM

Reply to cryptonx

Passive cooled card normaly run at higher temps

Therefore the OC result could be lower then with fan cooling

Just try a you will see if youre lucky and get some higher speeds out off the card.

Enjoy your X1950Pro!

Reply to ramo

Get the stock 8800 GT from EVGA for $260 and OC it to 728 x 1040 using RivaTuner to get a 3DMark06 score of 12,240 (which beats even a stock 8800 GTX!).

Reply to mitchellvii

Forget the 8600GT of those choices. The links you gave are not ones to be looking at as the 8600GT = 8800GTS in those links so obviously GPU power is NOT being tested in those benchmarks.

With fsaa the The X1950 pro is the most powerful gaming card of the three. It does use more power than the other two. The HD2600XT actually does pretty well without fsaa often beating the 8600GTS even in some new games.

Here are some more useful benchmarks for you.

Crysis:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=698&p=2

UT3:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

COD4: (only shows X1950 pro vs 7900GT and up)
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

Bioshock:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] /page8.asp

Message quoted 2 times

Reply to pauldh

LOL, the THG video charts are hosed. They are (unfortunately) a big steaming pile of junk right now. Not only do they use outdated drivers, but they don't make a lot of sense. Notice that all your cards score the same thing. (more or less) Notice also that at 1024x768 with no AA/AF the x1950pro scores 29.7FPS. What happens when you add AA/AF? The scores should go down right? Change it to 1024x768, notice now that the x1950pro scores 37.2FPS! With increased difficulty, the scores are supposed to go down, not up. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the game or something else.

I do know that others have come in, and we all say the same thing. Of the cards you listed, x1950pro is the best. This is the card you want.

Reply to 4745454b

an x1950pro cost twice as much as an 8600gt and the 86gt is way way overpowered you're question is very easy to answer. just take a look at the gpu charts from toms

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to wh3resmycar

X1950pro is better budget dx 10 always sucks

------------------------------ It's a theater of love stories.
Reply to itotallybelieveyou

wh3resmycar wrote :

an x1950pro cost twice as much as an 8600gt and the 86gt is way way overpowered you're question is very easy to answer. just take a look at the gpu charts from toms

The 8600GT is not "way way" overpowered. It has the power of the 7600GT, so its a low midrange card.

In the US you can get an 8600GT for $85 shipped. The x1950pro is $110, hardly twice the price.

Last, as I mentioned, the charts are messed up. You shouldn't be able to increase the video card demands and get a frame rate increase. Trust me and the others that have posted, the x1950pro is the better card.

------------------------------ The voice of REASON
Do NOT feed the TROLLS!
Always a DEMON!
Reply to 4745454b

x1950pro all the way. 1st gen dx10 is teh suck....they do as good as high mid end of the last dx9 series and they can't utilize dx10 capabilities. only thing they're good for is hd decoding, and playing games like barbie's priness ice skating or seomthing.

Reply to teh_boxzor

1950Pro-256bit > 8600GT-128bit

Reply to kpo6969

THANK YOU ALL
I AM IN LOVE

I Got the POWERCOLOR ATi Radeon X1950PRO 256GDDR3 256-BIT
but not the passive one .
here it is :

http://www.rotsinformatica.com.br/images/X1950Pro.jpg

The prices here are more expensive than the us thanks to taxes/customs , so a 8600GT = X1950 PRO = 2600XT at $150 .

I was really blown off dudes ! 1024x768 in CRYSIS EVERYTHING ON HIGH except the Shadows and Shader set to medium , the GAME RUNS PERFECTLY SMOOTH ! some hitchups in the middle due to my slow ATA drive and valuerams but its not annoying that much !

and for the firs time in my life I can actualy SEE the 3dmark05 RUNNING ! insted of slideshows

COD4 = maxxed out 1024 ... no problem
Timeshift = maxxed out at 1280 - no problem !
Carbon = maxxed out 1024 - FSAA4X 8AF .. no problem !
HL2EP2 : maaxed out 1280 !!! FSA4X 8AF no problem !
Portal , PES2008 , Jericho !! all my games are maxxed out !

This is the best $150 i ever paid for anything ! Thanks alot guys ! seriously !

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to cryptonx

cryptonx wrote :

Another case ,
Microsoft Flight Sim X , Aagain the 8600GT SMOKED anything ATi ( e ven the 2900 )

http://www23.tomshardware.com/grap [...] &chart=289

Yet thats another game I wont play !

Well you've alreayd bought, and IMO good choice.
But I wanted you to notice one thing about that link you have above.

Look at it again and explain to me why you think the GF8600GT beats the GF8800GTX?
Perhaps that should give people an idea of the importance of GPU power in that test/game at those settings.

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ You need a license to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) - RED GREEN. GA to SK
HD Freedom: 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Reply to TheGreatGrapeApe

TheGreatGrapeApe wrote :

Well you've alreayd bought, and IMO good choice.
But I wanted you to notice one thing about that link you have above.

Look at it again and explain to me why you think the GF8600GT beats the GF8800GTX?
Perhaps that should give people an idea of the importance of GPU power in that test/game at those settings.

Honestly When I look at these benchmarks ,its either a typo .. or something went wrong ... or simply they score the same but the average framerate calculator differs ...

or maybe worse the game might be limited to 45 fps or so , I don't like these universal VGA charts anymore .
and the titles they are using are outdated now ...

Crysis / UT3 / World in Conflict should be the main benhmark systems now .

even if the results are correct , I am happy that almost all the FPSes i am going to play , the X1950PRO is better than the 8600GT except in Crysis were the 2600XT had almost the same result in 1024 at medium .

Thanks again for your note , Anyways this what I do annualy ... buy a $120 $150 card that can run the games of this year perfectly at 1024 or almost-perfect , its the best deal ever ... next year new gpu in the same price category ... .
which suits my gaming needs and my budget

Reply to cryptonx

pauldh wrote :

Forget the 8600GT of those choices. The links you gave are not ones to be looking at as the 8600GT = 8800GTS in those links so obviously GPU power is NOT being tested in those benchmarks.

With fsaa the The X1950 pro is the most powerful gaming card of the three. It does use more power than the other two. The HD2600XT actually does pretty well without fsaa often beating the 8600GTS even in some new games.

Here are some more useful benchmarks for you.

Crysis:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=698&p=2

UT3:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

COD4: (only shows X1950 pro vs 7900GT and up)
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

Bioshock:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] /page8.asp

Thank you so much Paul , I've been looking for these !!

Reply to cryptonx

cryptonx wrote :

THANK YOU ALL
I AM IN LOVE

I Got the POWERCOLOR ATi Radeon X1950PRO 256GDDR3 256-BIT
but not the passive one .
here it is :

http://www.rotsinformatica.com.br/images/X1950Pro.jpg

The prices here are more expensive than the us thanks to taxes/customs , so a 8600GT = X1950 PRO = 2600XT at $150 .

I was really blown off dudes ! 1024x768 in CRYSIS EVERYTHING ON HIGH except the Shadows and Shader set to medium , the GAME RUNS PERFECTLY SMOOTH ! some hitchups in the middle due to my slow ATA drive and valuerams but its not annoying that much !

and for the firs time in my life I can actualy SEE the 3dmark05 RUNNING ! insted of slideshows

COD4 = maxxed out 1024 ... no problem
Timeshift = maxxed out at 1280 - no problem !
Carbon = maxxed out 1024 - FSAA4X 8AF .. no problem !
HL2EP2 : maaxed out 1280 !!! FSA4X 8AF no problem !
Portal , PES2008 , Jericho !! all my games are maxxed out !

This is the best $150 i ever paid for anything ! Thanks alot guys ! seriously !

glad you like it
I use the exact same settings as you. lovely isnt it...lol

------------------------------ I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum.....and I'm all out of gum!
Reply to blade85

The X1950XT is much better than the X1950 Pro.

Reply to enewmen

pauldh wrote :

Forget the 8600GT of those choices. The links you gave are not ones to be looking at as the 8600GT = 8800GTS in those links so obviously GPU power is NOT being tested in those benchmarks.

With fsaa the The X1950 pro is the most powerful gaming card of the three. It does use more power than the other two. The HD2600XT actually does pretty well without fsaa often beating the 8600GTS even in some new games.

Here are some more useful benchmarks for you.

Crysis:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=698&p=2

UT3:
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

COD4: (only shows X1950 pro vs 7900GT and up)
http://www.legionhardware.com/docu [...] id=693&p=5

Bioshock:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] /page8.asp

Good post!
If this pattern continues, perhaps the 3800XT can beat the 8800GT in Crysis and later games?

Reply to enewmen

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