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My Core Duo scored 555 in 3DMark06, whats wrong? (CPU-Z pics)

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October 27, 2007 11:36:05 PM

I first posted about this problem a few days ago in the graphics & displays forum but despite all the advice I was given, nothing worked. So now I'm exploring other possibilities as to what could be causing this problem. Essentially my PC performance is abysmal I'm getting single digit frame rates and am at a loss for why. I did a reformat yesterday to eliminate the software variable but it had no effect so now I'm trying to find out what is causing this problem so it can be replaced. All the proper drivers are installed and I've done everything I can think of from a software standpoint to fix this but I need help evaluating my CPUs performance.

Specs:
Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 P965 775 (Intel Chipset)
CPU - INTEL|C2D E6600 2.4G 775 4M R (Dual core)
Power Supply - PSU OCZ|OCZ700GXSSLI 700W RT
Video Card - VGA XFX PVT80GGHE9 8800GTS 320MB R
Memory - 1Gx2|G.SKILL F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ
OS - Windows XP professional

CPU-Z pics:








Is this normal? I don't quite understand the information CPU-Z is giving me.
October 27, 2007 11:43:24 PM

You are supposed to be getting single frames.... Do your games do good?
October 27, 2007 11:47:26 PM

No I mean I'm often getting below 10fps in games, for example Half-Life 2 (and other games that run on the source engine) and Elder Scrolls IV. I even ran KOTOR 2 and it was choppy and awful.
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October 27, 2007 11:52:55 PM

Are you sure that the CPU is the problem? The video card also scores very poorly in 3DMark06 and I'm also not ruling out the possibility that the PSU is causing the problem but I need to be sure before I try replacing all the wrong parts.
October 28, 2007 12:04:14 AM

itotallybelieveyou said:
RMA the chips ass... It's a busted one
How did you come to that conclusion based on the information provided?
October 28, 2007 12:04:57 AM

Most of what can be said here about problems like this is speculation. The only way to really test any of this is by swapping pieces into your system and/or swapping your parts into another system.

-mcg
October 28, 2007 12:13:21 AM

Wow, no offence to any of ya'll, but the answer is blatently obvious....Your processor is running at 1.6Ghz. It is cause you have your multiplier a x6. Go to your bios and put the multiplier up to x9. That should do it for you. If that doesn't then something is wrong, but 1.6Ghz is probably why your frame rates are abysmal.
October 28, 2007 12:13:59 AM

monsterrocks I don't think you quite understand how speedstep works...it will throttle his cpu to 1.6ghz (6x266)when the system is doing very little work, then when the cpu is put under load by a game or program it will automatically change the multiplier to 9, giving 2.4ghz (9x266). So when he is getting these bad framerates and benchmarks it is when the cpu is at 2.4ghz. Hence this is most definately not his problem.

Hope that clears things up
October 28, 2007 12:15:18 AM

The video card scores low because the low CPU clock, so it bottlenecks your video card like you wouldn't believe. Just do what I said before and I promise you score will get much higher.
October 28, 2007 12:19:15 AM

monsterrocks said:
Wow, no offence to any of ya'll, but the answer is blatently obvious....Your processor is running at 1.6Ghz. It is cause you have your multiplier a x6. Go to your bios and put the multiplier up to x9. That should do it for you. If that doesn't then something is wrong, but 1.6Ghz is probably why your frame rates are abysmal.
Wow, no offense to you but his multiplier is at x6 because of speed step. It is, beyond any shadow of doubt, not his problem.
October 28, 2007 12:23:16 AM

Try Bios version F12.
October 28, 2007 12:24:30 AM

And SpeedStep slows the CPU under low load to save power. It returns to full speed when needed.

You may want to run CPU, Memory, HDD, and GPU benchmarks to help isolate the issue. Anyone of those could cause problems.
October 28, 2007 12:25:26 AM

And even if the 6x multiplier *WAS* an issue it wouldn't explain framerates that bad. A 1.6GHz C2D wouldn't be too different than my X2 3800 at stock. Its something else.

-mcg
October 28, 2007 12:39:09 AM

monsterrocks said:
X2 3800 stock would block away a 1.6Ghz CPU. No matter how good the CPU, 1.6Ghz is terrible. I don't think you realize just how big of a bottleneck that is. MrCommunis, the architecture of a CPU means nothing if the clock speed is that low.


rofl a C2D at 1.6ghz would preform roughly the same as a 3800+ at stock (2ghz).
turn on cool-n-quiet and watch your 3800+ drop to 1ghz oh no!!!!!

whats with the noobs around here lately who have never heard of speedstep or CNQ?
October 28, 2007 12:50:30 AM

X2 3800 stock would block away a 1.6Ghz CPU. No matter how good the CPU, 1.6Ghz is terrible. I don't think you realize just how big of a bottleneck that is. MrCommunis, the architecture of a CPU means nothing if the clock speed is that low.
October 28, 2007 12:53:35 AM

I ran PerformanceTest 6.1 to benchmark everything and these are the results I got. Don't know if this means anything to you guys but I thought it might be helpful.

CPU - Integer Math: 211.4
CPU - Floating Point Math: 582.7
CPU - Find Prime Numbers: 438.3
CPU - SSE/3DNow!: 4412.0
CPU - Compression: 3918.4
CPU - Encryption: 22.9
CPU - Image Rotation: 746.9
CPU - String Sorting: 2501.1
Graphics 2D - Lines: 137.2
Graphics 2D - Rectangles: 279.4
Graphics 2D - Shapes: 6.2
Graphics 2D - Fonts and Text: 233.4
Graphics 2D - GUI: 241.2
Graphics 3D - Simple: 2504.0
Graphics 3D - Medium: 341.7
Graphics 3D - Complex: 33.6
Memory - Allocate Small Block: 1619.8
Memory - Read Cached: 1296.4
Memory - Read Uncached: 1245.3
Memory - Write: 1219.1
Memory - Large RAM: 380.6
Disk - Sequential Read: 75.4
Disk - Sequential Write: 70.8
Disk - Random Seek + RW: 3.2
CD - Read: 0.0
CPU Mark: 1148.0
2D Graphics Mark: 678.2
Memory Mark: 425.9
Disk Mark: 540.5
CD Mark: 1.0
3D Graphics Mark: 921.5
PassMark Rating: 700.3

a b à CPUs
October 28, 2007 1:24:26 AM

Little hard trying to find any info about performancetest 6.1 (or any version of it). seems to be personal database only.
I would try:
http://www.futuremark.com/products/3dmark06/
Much easier to see results and actual benchmarks in fps.

Edit: opps sorry, 555 in 3DMark06 (duh-my fault). could you list the details from that?
October 28, 2007 2:11:15 AM

I benched my AMD Athlon 3800+ Venice with Cool n' Quiet enabled and w/o Cool n' Quiet enabled. Even though the CPU throttles up, My CPU score went way down in the CPU section of 3Dmark 06 with it enabled. Yeah, I'm 16. I don't know as much as you people do. But I would have assumed he would have specified whether he was using 100% CPU in those pictures or not...And yes, I do know that those CPUs throttle down.
I have an AMD Athlon x2 4200+ @ 2.869Ghz. I will download that program and see what my CPU gets compared to yours. Have you considered it being a motherboard problem? I know I can't compare my results to your too much, seeing as how our systems differ, but if my CPU way outscores yours, I will post results and see if anyone can decifer them...
October 28, 2007 2:21:21 AM

Alrighty, I think it is you RAM. I have DDR (PC3200) and You have DDR2 (PC6400 or similar) Check these scores out:
Memory Allocate Small Block : 2439.1
Memory Read Cached : 1383.3
Memory Read Uncached : 1261.8
Memory Write : 1309.1
Memory Large RAM :635.2
Memory Mark : 519.6

Your results:

Memory - Allocate Small Block: 1619.8
Memory - Read Cached: 1296.4
Memory - Read Uncached: 1245.3
Memory - Write: 1219.1
Memory - Large RAM: 380.6
Memory Mark: 425.9

That obviously shouldn't be like that. Do you have any spare RAM of the same speed lying around? Everything else I ran, your computer beat mine in; except graphics, but thats because something is wrong with something else I am guessing. I am confident in saying it is your RAM or something to do with your RAM. Like I said, the only benchmark we majorly differed in is the RAM.

Oh yeah, do try to flash to latest bios. That may be a board that needs the latest bios to properly run C2D. You never know.
October 28, 2007 2:25:43 AM

I'll run memtest and see if there are any problems
October 28, 2007 3:09:37 AM

A 1.8GHz C2D performs slightly faster than a 2.0GHz X2 so a 1.6GHz C2D shouldn't be too far off. I wasn't suggesting that the processor was running at 1.6GHz, I was saying that *even if it were* that wouldn't explain performance THAT bad. HL2 runs fine on an Athlon XP and a 9800 Pro.

-mcg
October 28, 2007 5:35:47 AM

Kano,

Installed and ran PerformanceTest here on this config:
C2D 6420 stock
Asus P5K Deluxe
2GB DDR2 667 (2 X 1GB)
XFX GF7950GT (512 MB) stock
Seagate Barracuda 400Gb 7200.10
550W PSU

And here are the results:

CPU - Integer Math: 183.2
CPU - Floating Point Math: 495.1
CPU - Find Prime Numbers: 530.0
CPU - SSE/3DNow!: 4416.0
CPU - Compression: 4618.8
CPU - Encryption: 27.9
CPU - Image Rotation: 921.6
CPU - String Sorting: 2912.8
Graphics 2D - Lines: 131.7
Graphics 2D - Rectangles: 408.1
Graphics 2D - Shapes: 6.1
Graphics 2D - Fonts and Text: 302.4
Graphics 2D - GUI: 274.3
Graphics 3D - Simple: 1929.6
Graphics 3D - Medium: 414.0
Graphics 3D - Complex: 42.2
Memory - Allocate Small Block: 2015.7
Memory - Read Cached: 1633.0
Memory - Read Uncached: 1569.6
Memory - Write: 1490.6
Memory - Large RAM: 526.7
CD - Read: 0.0
CPU Mark: 1225.7
2D Graphics Mark: 864.5
Memory Mark: 534.9
Disk Mark: 347.7
CD Mark: 268.4
3D Graphics Mark: 763.5
PassMark Rating: 733.3

My system is about a notch down from yours except for the motherboard… That said, it is obvious you are experiencing serious performance issues across the board. The most accurate way to find where the problem lies, is to follow MrCommunistGen's suggestion. Swap parts between yours and another system.

Now, if I were to guess, besides the processor and PSU I would include the motherboard (as a busted chipset could very well explain the numbers you're getting).

But do not take anybody's guess as valid diagnosis. Test those components one by one.

Regards.
October 28, 2007 6:08:06 AM

Well you might as well shut off speedstep and set your multiplier at 9x to rule that out. My e6600 gives a 3dmark06 of 6400-6800 with an x1950xt 256mb, if that helps at all.
October 28, 2007 6:33:45 AM

If everything is performing bad, try the PSU, or system restore to a date it was working normally. (Use SR first)
October 28, 2007 9:10:27 AM

monsterrocks said:
Alrighty, I think it is you RAM. I have DDR (PC3200) and You have DDR2 (PC6400 or similar) Check these scores out:


first he blindly appointed its the multiplier after a screenshot of CPUz indicating 1.6GHz, they saying its your RAM.

If you are not 100% sure, do not come to your conclusion so quickly. You are just going to confuse the problems he is having and could end up spending needless time on something completely wrong.

1.6GHz is not a bottleneck, my Q6600 slows itself down when playing World in Conflict to 1.6GHz from time to time.

You can have everything else working perfectly on 2D with the wrong driver of your NVIDIA 8800GTS 320MB, but you won't score 10FPS in 3D.

The RAM mentioned as above. I don't think the RAM is faulty. But if you only told the RAM to run at a certain ratio to the CPU Frenquency (FSB) then you are limiting the RAM Speed. Or having the RAM speed on Auto, the BIOS usually select 200 or 166 where your RAM is capable of running 266 / 300 / 333 / 366 / 400 being a PC2-6400. But slow RAM speed does not effect your in-game performance, it will only increase your game's LOADING speed.

I'll get some advise else where in the mean while

Best of luck

October 28, 2007 9:13:57 AM

1756116,23,94268 said:

Now, if I were to guess, besides the processor and PSU I would include the motherboard (as a busted chipset could very well explain the numbers you're getting).quotemsg]

Might be where the problem lays, you didn't install the chipset driver? :) 
a c 79 à CPUs
October 28, 2007 9:54:53 AM

I didn't follow the previous thread on this so apologies for repeating some of the basics.

Was it a clean installation? (i'm thinking massive driver conflicts, although I've never seen anything that bad)

What temps are you getting under load (I'm thinking throttling due to a poorly installed stock heatsink (very common on new builds))

Your CPU-Z is perfectly normal for a speedstepped E6600, no problems there.

Do you have the PCI-E power plugged into the GTS (if it has one can't fnind a pic I can trust to find out right now) this would slow the card right down)

Can you run riva tuner and check the clockspeeds of the 8800gts (it may show that it is very underclocked for some reason or other)

That's all I've got for now.

Good luck.

October 28, 2007 12:25:57 PM

Peter4, perhaps you can't read? According to his screenshots, his ram is running at 400Mhz...in other words, full speed. Do you know what the word think means? I did not say it was for sure his RAM, I said his RAM was scoring way lower than it should. You and I both know his RAM should not be that low, unless his timings make that big of a difference; which according to that article Toms wrote months ago, it shouldn't make that large of a difference. Don't believe me? Take a look at the benchmarks I put up. He bought really solid RAM that OCs like you wouldn't believe, and yet it scores so low? So he tried memtest. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But instead of you criticising me, why don't you try helping the guy that asked for help? Did you ever think of that?

Yes, I said I came to a quick and faulty conclusion about the CPU, but that was because I have had problems with Cool n' Quiet in the past (obviously different thing then speedstep, but same concept). Just because I made a mistake, does not mean I cannot be trusted. I am sure you have never made a mistake in your life before...

We should be 100% sure before we post? Then this guy would get no one's help. No one can be 100% sure. So like I said, instead of criticizing me, shut up and try to help this guy. He can run memtest whilst he sleeps...that is not wasting his time testing things.

You are right MrCommunistsGen, I was just saying it would be a bottleneck @ 1.6Ghz, but you are right in saying it would not be that bad.

How did your memtest results look? Did you try flashing to latest bios? If it is not your RAM, it could be a faulty mother board. Like I said, you other hardware scored just fine on that benchmark, including the CPU. It should not be your graphics card, because yours got about as high of a score on Performance test as my x1800xt did. Even though you card it way better than mine, I am assuming that it is from something bottlenecking it. You could try one RAM module at a time, and see if maybe one isn't DOA. Other than that, I really has no idea what could be wrong. What about your power supply? Can we have the stats on that?
a c 79 à CPUs
October 28, 2007 12:48:02 PM

I've just run perf test, (never heard of it before), i'm running an E6600 with memory at 266 i.e. 1:1 ratio, I am not o/c'd.

My CPU scores were comparable to yours (i'm torrenting crysis right now, so i'm expecting it to be a bit lower). But my memory scores were about 25-30% higher on all counts totoal memory score of 522.9 vs 425, my memory has slightly tighter timings 4-4-10, vs 5-5-15, but it wouldn't make that much difference. It also would not account for your very low frames.

My 3dmark is higher as i am running a 8800GTX, but only 1168 vs 921, I suspect that I am a bit slower than I should be. but you are not slow enough again to account for it.

I doubt that memtest will show anything as bad memory would generally result in BSOD's and random shutdowns? Try setting it to 266 as memory speed, I also doubt this would have an effect.

CPU/GPU could be throttling when hot, I doubt that the tests would stress the system too much to notice, hence why a real world application (game) shows something.

Could the north bridge (which I believe communicates with the RAM) be overheating, does it have a fan on it, or a heatsink, is it secure? But again I would expect to see BSOD's first, rather than performance drops.



October 28, 2007 1:15:53 PM

How are the temps on the CPU and GPU? If it's over heating, the throttling would prolly cut your scores down.
October 28, 2007 1:19:36 PM

:ouch:  is all I can really say, but I'm guessing it's your CPU like you said. If it was your PSU you'd probably have random shutdowns. If it was your RAM or Chipset you'd have BSOD's all the time. If it was your GPU you'd have artifacts or problems playing graphic intense games. If it's your CPU you'd have low scores on 3DMark(CPU section) and low FPS in games. If your CPU is crap you'll never get good results even from the best GPU. You could try to DL the newest BIOS and see if that helps but I doubt it.

The chipset can have many wild and weird effects/affects to the entire system so it's not so easy to rule that out but I'm pretty sure if you run something like Orthos that you'll be able to discover what's up.
October 28, 2007 2:18:22 PM

:lol:  . o O (if it was his CPU, it shouldn't boot)
October 28, 2007 5:35:35 PM

Good advice from T8RR8R that I didn't think of there. He is right, orthos should be able to tell you if it is CPU related or not. You should also get speedfan to see you temps, just to make sure that stuff isn't overheating. Grimmy, you can boot off of a bad CPU...your CPU doesn't have to be perfect to boot. As long as the thing actually works it should boot, but that doesn't mean that it works how it should. Hey man, put your timings at 4-4-4-12 @1T and make sure the volts are manually set to between 2.0-2.1v. That is what your RAM is capable of doing. It won't fix the problem, but it will make you load times a lot faster when you do get the thing fixed.
October 28, 2007 5:43:59 PM

Yeah, between 2.0-2.1 is what the newegg specs say for the RAM, so make sure at least the voltage is correct.
October 28, 2007 5:44:54 PM

Errr... Orthos or Prime95 can tell you if you have hardware problems, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the CPU / Memory physically, or does it really tell you exactly whats wrong. You can have your bios settings wrong to where those programs will say there's something wrong, but yet your hardware is fine.
October 28, 2007 5:56:22 PM

Orthos is stress test for CPU only; it's kinda like prime95. But if it fails orthos, or prime for that matter, you will have narrowed it down to a CPU or motherboard problem. Orthos is CPU strictly (I believe, not sure), prime is CPU and RAM. So based on the error he gets, he could get a greater idea of what exactly his problem is. Orthos might have a code that it puts out when it has an error and you can look it up on a list, but I haven't used it in a while, so I am not positive; I am just pretty sure.
October 28, 2007 6:05:28 PM

Can anyone enlighten me as to what this Orthos error is?

Heh.. it tests memory, believe it or not.

Those programs are generally to test system that are OC. However you still can use them to test the stability at normal or stock speeds, and to see if your cooling system is in check.

Now the guy is not overclocking, he's stated he is using memtest, and hasn't go back yet. Now, it would be nice to know what his CPU / GPU temps are, since I haven't seen a reply yet.
October 28, 2007 6:13:51 PM

Hey man, I said once I wasn't sure. I said I hadn't used it in a while. I just did some research on Orthos, and it turns out that it is the exact same as Prime95, only it has a different UI. That error is probably his RAM or CPU running at too low or high of a voltage. I got the exact same rounding error message on Prime95 and found out that lowering my RAMs voltage fixed the problem. That or he has got his clocks way too high...
October 28, 2007 6:15:50 PM

Ah, never mind, he said that he tried voltages and that no matter what he did, it didn't work. He wasted his OC though...running your RAM @ 2T makes the stuff run terrible; 2T is really slow. Or at least, thats what synthetic benchmarks say...
October 28, 2007 6:16:32 PM

Hope I'm not sounding... harsh or anything. Not trying to make you feel bad, we are, well not just us.. trying to help this guy out.

No hard feeling man.

But I totally understand where ya coming from.

Edit:

I should have also said that I recently used Orthos, and ran it 9 hours (orthos) straight, and 10 hours (Prime95) straight to test my OC on my E4400 @ 3ghz, kinda just knew better. Whelp... I guess Im off for now.
October 28, 2007 6:36:36 PM

Try Prime95 though man, use the "small fft" test to test the CPU only. If it fails at default clocks, then your CPU (or maybe northbridge) is the cause.
October 28, 2007 6:46:04 PM

To answer some questions, this system is a clean build that I put together 7 months ago (worked fine then). This problem has been getting exponentially worse for several months until now when it is intolerable. I now AM getting random reboots from time to time as well as horrible startup times. Once I get past the screen with the XP logo and the loading bar the entire screen goes black and stays there for a minute or two before loading windows. I am beyond frustrated at this point but I'm going to run Orthos and Prime95 and I'll probably just go buy a new PSU tomorrow so I can eliminate that option.

edit: Oh and I've been monitoring temps, they're all fine.
a c 79 à CPUs
October 28, 2007 6:57:56 PM

I doubt that a PSU would cause progressive failures like that.. unless you have caps going on the PSU, but that would take years normally, and you have plenty of overhead in terms of power, what brand of PSU? decent?

Do you harddisks check out ok? it could be viral? What are your GPU and CPU temps under load?

I know we are just asking questions, but it all helps, the gradual degradation information may have helped a lot, I just can't put it togther yet.
a b à CPUs
October 28, 2007 7:26:28 PM

IF it were Viral, Formatting and reinstalling windows would've cured that.

But like 13thmonkey mentions Hard Drives crapping out, could cause the long load times. and POSSIBLY reboots.

Have you looked at the SMART status for your drive(s)
a c 79 à CPUs
October 28, 2007 7:38:55 PM

given the current bsods and restarts it could be that the memory is slowly degrading, although I wouldn't have expected the performance drop, just it only working for a few minutes at a time.

Cliffro, I was thinking that the viral infection coudl have started after the last rebuild, (7 months ago), and that would potentially cause the performance degradation since then, it could have gotten in before virus software was installed etc.
October 28, 2007 8:18:43 PM

Try SiSoftware Sandra Lite. It has a lot of benchmarks for the CPU and RAM, and includes the ability to compare against similar systems loaded into it's internal database. It also has plenty of information about your hardware including SMART. It may help in localizing the problem.

One last thing...it's free.
October 28, 2007 9:28:51 PM

Have you tried using a program to scan your hard drive for bad sectors? Do you have another hard drive spare that you could try? Cause if it is a progressive problem, that sounds like something a hard drive could be responsible for. If it were GPU or CPU it would not be slow degradation I don't think. Remember that what I am saying is speculation, so take it worth a grain of salt. By the way, is your XP 32-bit or 64-bit? Do you remember anything going wrong that could have triggered this? Like a power outtage or a random crash? Try resetting your bios. It sounds crazy, but it takes like 30 seconds and it certainly won't hurt.
October 28, 2007 9:52:29 PM

Alright new info using SiSoftware Sandra Lite. Given these results it really makes me think the CPU is to blame. But judge for yourself. By the way I'm not sure if I was clear but I did the reformat two days ago so I think that rules out the virus theory.

You can see here how I scored well below not only what an E6600 is supposed to run but well below a lesser model as well:


Another CPU test with similar results:


Cache and memory test very bad, you can see I'm well below the blue line representing a normal E6600:


Chipset and memory checked out slightly lower than it should be but not that bad:


Finally the HDD test was perfect, you can see the orange line representing optimal performance from a Seagate 7200.10 and the red line is right on top so I think we can rule out HDD failure.




Also I have not been able to run Prime95 or Orthos without my system crashing, SiSoftware Sandra Lite along with 3DMark06 have been the only CPU tests I can run. Given that and these test results I think it looks like my CPU is at fault. Is this enough info to justify requesting a replacement from Intel? If so, according to the Intel site I need a serial number-spec + FPO, where would I go about finding these? On the CPU itself?



October 28, 2007 9:55:50 PM

dude did u turn off Speedstep yet...its in your bios
!