RV670 vs everything else

[neblogai]

I just saw some numbers at http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=201700 , and it led to small analysis. Lets compare die area of recent nVidia and ATi products:

G92- 315mm²
and
RV670- ~180mm²

The numbers say two things:
1. Teoreticaly ATi can get 7 dies where nVidia is getting 4!
2. RV670 die area doesn't even belong to compare with G92, but with GeForce8600 series- 169mm² and HD 2600- 153mm²!

If only the yealds for RV670 are good, AMD must be very happy: competing product- g92 cannot cost cheap because of its large die size. So AMD has a chance not only make good profit in performance segment, but also to use lower quality chips to own mainstream What do you think?

 

[wirelessfender]

I think your right! anyone else?

 

[vaker5]

Why are you comparing the 8800gt to a chipset that will probably cost 2x more and is a high end piece if your comparing that to the gt then youve already lost the point the 8800gt isnt nvidias big release and if it even compares to the 3800 then amd/ati has already screwed up, all they have put out lately are loud slow and expensive gpu's........ when nvidia pumps out the next gtx and ultra we will compare the 3800. Dont beleive the hype.

 

[homerdog]

That's interesting. I guess using a smaller fabrication process and having fewer transistors makes the RV670 a good bit smaller than g92. I suspect that these 38XX cards will be a great value.

 

[ailgatrat]

What good would die size do for the consumer if the card is not competitive? Course, we won't know for sure until the benchmarks come in. What's the purpose of this post anyways?

 

[caqde]

vaker5 the R680 (not the RV670) is the competitor to Nvidia next big card the RV670 should be the competitor to the cards derived from the G92 (8800GT and whatever else comes out).

 

[monsterrocks]

Why are you comparing the 8800gt to a chipset that will probably cost 2x more and is a high end piece if your comparing that to the gt then youve already lost the point the 8800gt isnt nvidias big release and if it even compares to the 3800 then amd/ati has already screwed up, all they have put out lately are loud slow and expensive gpu's........ when nvidia pumps out the next gtx and ultra we will compare the 3800. Dont beleive the hype.

Sorry, no offense Vaker, but who taught you english/grammar? Because that was probably the most confusing and poorly phrased post I have even seen in my life. And the 8800gt is not a precurser to a new highend GPU, hate to burst you bubble. The new highends nVidia makes will be a whole new line completely. Or at least, that is what we have been told. ATi made no mistake. With a die size like that, if the HD 3870 gets even close to the 8800gt in performance, it will massacre it in price/performance...

 

[Harrisson]

Such small die definately will help AMD for profit margins, but if rumours are true about it being ~20% slower than 8800GT, IMO they could have earned even more if they pumped lets say 40% more transistors to 250mm². Faster than GT and still cheaper to make, could charge for it more than GT.

 

[syfon]

Die size helps in manufacturing costs..but not that much in raw performance gain. I don't think a die shrink is really going to help them that much.

On a side note...it's interesting to note how AMD's GPU die size is smaller than their CPU die size. Sorry but I just couldn't help but laugh at that.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

IMO they could have earned even more if they pumped lets say 40% more transistors to 250mm².

Yeah I agree, I think they would've done better to improve the back end by adding ROPs and TMUs, but that increases development costs, while the basic R600 design means less time effort and expense on a redesign.

At some point they probably had a sit-down and decided the design direction, the question is whether that was before or after they knew the performance of the early R600s. If this design was early '07 it's not really surprising they didn't add much, otherwise they had to pick between the two paths improve R600 performance beyond clockspeed boosts or reduce costs.

Also if you think of the spinoffs of this chip, it's probably more mobile friendly than any iteration with more transistors; and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up in the high-end of their mobile line, while to me the GT still looks questionable for a direct mobile port.

 

[ira176]

Yeah I agree, I think they would've done better to improve the back end by adding ROPs and TMUs, but that increases development costs, while the basic R600 design means less time effort and expense on a redesign.

At some point they probably had a sit-down and decided the design direction, the question is whether that was before or after they knew the performance of the early R600s. If this design was early '07 it's not really surprising they didn't add much, otherwise they had to pick between the two paths improve R600 performance beyond clockspeed boosts or reduce costs.

Also if you think of the spinoffs of this chip, it's probably more mobile friendly than any iteration with more transistors; and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up in the high-end of their mobile line, while to me the GT still looks questionable for a direct mobile port.

I agree with you, maybe a couple more ROPs would help. Is there any possibility that AMD could do something similar to Nvidia, by clocking the shaders higher than the rest of the core? Could that play a future role to evening the performance a bit between AMD and Nvidia?

 

[wernerdb2]

you guys only see ROPs and clocks - not the fact that this processor is a whole new design - most of it ( 90% + infact )

wait and see - if its good you can buy it and **** on those below you or vice versa - as this seems to be culture of intel, amd, ati, nvidia supporters - well the majority at least

 

[wernerdb2]

YOU THINK YOU THINK BLA BLA BLUR BLUR BACK END - HA HA - aaaa HAHAHA - who are you my clever man - to think - to think with the master minds behind all of this -

U think waayyy to simple me friend

 

[randomizer]

YOU THINK YOU THINK BLA BLA BLUR BLUR BACK END - HA HA - aaaa HAHAHA - who are you my clever man - to think - to think with the master minds behind all of this -

U think waayyy to simple me friend

 

[wernerdb2]

What a shame - is that how you looked when you flonked maths

 

[blashyrkh]

...what randomizer said...

 

[blade85]

is it just me or did a good discussion come to a very bizarre end here? -_-

 

[wernerdb2]

LOL

 

[joewho]

wernerdb2,

Please just go away.

Thanks
Mike

 

[wernerdb2]

NA - What i would like to say by being decent for a change is that - have a bit of faith - everythings not about clocks and ROPs to get better performance - I have 8800ultras in sli and i just know that ati has something huge coming up - you can feel it in the air - with the gtx been nicked by an 8800gt - my ultra sli rig barely wins two 8800gts in sli - with bloody game performence - not testing - and this is pure clocks we have here

 

[wernerdb2]

na sorry guys - mind my manners- like i said - i'm just 23 - sorry mike

 

[blade85]

you can feel it in the air

That little bit there reminded me of lord of the rings -_- :lol:


and now i should probably stop spamming.

 

[wernerdb2]

i'm angry with both ati and nvidia - its like these companies dont have respect for their users when it comes to cards - i was a fool who bought 2 7950gx2 cards for my machine - and it got beaten by a bloody 8800gts320meg with game performance - ati on the other hand has the driver issues in many new titles - with i think some angry or dissapointed fans

and now again with nvidia - 8800gt in sli compares with 8800ultras - the price tag - it bites in the end - and each time we choose another team or get treated ok for a while or so -

mike - youre 40 - is this how life will go on forever

 

[mitchellvii]

8800 GT will beat HD 3800's on performance but the 3800's will try to compete on price (and the silly 10.1 thing). The G92 GTS with 128 shaders enabled will blow anything in the 3800 line away starting around 300 USD for the 512 and 400 USD for the 1 gig versions. The G92 GTS will go on to be THE big enthusiast card for Christmas.

 

[wernerdb2]

I mark you on this one mithcellvii -- you picked your side - with your resources on the net - the final product will blow up in you face with 10.1 all over you -

How can you be so sure - what - because of clocks and shaders - have you seen the
HD3870 core in action ? theyre so secretive and this makes it a haven for fake reviews - ITs simple

Time shifted to ati this time with their new supperior tech - its how it goes - and now ati has their turn coming - remember this day if youre serious about your quote - '

Its like amd now intel later or vice versa - we think we can by ahead - but we in reality were always behind- (including in leaked specs)

When you hear gpu - you think ohh ok ok mhz = 1000
when you dont know anything about the pros and cons of their designs