"Upgrade" justifiable, or not?

[T3hKittl3s]

Hello. This long time lurker, first time poster is unsure.

I'm debating whether or not to upgrade my current CPU, or wait it out for when I plan on completely revamping my system in 6 months or so. I've had this system for two years now, and only changed out the PSU (in prep. for the build to come/stabilize the current) since I built it. Here are my specs:

nForce4 9NPA+Ultra
AMD Opteron 148@2.8 GHz
2x512 MB Kingston ValueRAM 2.5-3-3-6
XFX 7800GTX 256MB (This will be a definite change once the 8800GT/GTS hubbub is out of the way...)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 80 GB (system), 250 GB (Storage/pagefile)
Antec TPQ-850 PSU
Windows XP Home SP2

My question is whether or not it'd be worth it to change out my CPU to a dual core equivalent (thinking http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103543 as it's cheap, and potentially as OC'able as my Opteron.) A dual core Opteron equivalent seems like way too much money to invest into a virtually dead socket type, so I didn't consider it much, but $60 seems more reasonable.

Would it be worth it at all to upgrade, or is it wasting $60 and should I wait until I do a complete over-hall? My primary use is gaming, but I do a full range of things on my setup. (I game at 1920x1200, if that adds to anything).

Any advice, or insight would be most appreciated, thanks.

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

overhaul for sure

 

[T3hKittl3s]

Here's hoping my CPU survives until then...

 

[geofelt]

I vote for overhall.

For gaming, the 8800GT should be a good upgrade. Most games are not cpu limited.

You have only 1gb of memory, and this might be hurting you more.
Changing to a dual core processor might actually hurt because other tasks in the system will get cpu resources, putting pressure on the memory. If it is cheap enough, get another gig.

 

[chookman]

Id say complete new system as well... for the money outlay on that one your performance wont have a big enough jump to justify it.

A whole new system in the new year would be looking at Penryn or Phenom and with the new AMD and Nvidia happening soon too it wouldnt be worth upgrading.

 

[sailer]

I think its worth the $60 to get the X2 4200+. This CPU overclocks fairly well, as I get 2860 mhz on my 4400+ on air without problem. You might consider another gig of ram if you stay with this platform.

I think the answer to your question depends more on your budget than the simple answer as to whether ot not the 4200+ is worthwhile. I priced an upgrade to an AM2 5000+ BE with 2 gig of ram and a mobo for about $400 a couple weeks ago. Intel also offers a few decent upgrades if you want to go that way, though the Intel route might cost a bit more. Of course, if you're willing to spend $1000-$2000, then you can get some really good stuff. It all depends on your budget.

 

[T3hKittl3s]

I'm appreciating the insight here.

To all: That was my next question - RAM. I know a gig is...small these days, but again, I'm unsure if spending ~$130 for a 2x1 GB pair is worth it, when I'll be changing my platform completely in half a year, and be needing DDR2 (or, possibly, DDR3 - again, depending on platform). However, would I lose noticeable performance and/or overclockability by having 4 DIMMs (i.e., another 2x512 MB pair?) And, wouldn't it be recommended that I get the same brand, model, etc.?

To geofelt, and chookman: Yes, the 8800GT is what I'd get right now, but with R670, and the new GTS only a few weeks away, I'm inclined to wait on that, and see prices and performance comparisons.

To Sailer: My main concern is that I'll be able to get it to the same clock that my Opteron is at, so that any performance difference regarding single-threaded won't take a hit. I've researched a bit, and 2.8 GHz seems achievable, as you also believe. Would I need more extravagant cooling than my Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu?

 

[amnotanoobie]

I would actually only recommend 4 different branded dimms, if you run your rig on stock. One issue with 4 dimms is the higher voltage required to run all 4. This is a bit of a problem on heavily OC'ed systems as you'd need to crank the voltage up a bit more. Also it's very hard to OC with 4 different branded dimms as each of their performance and specifications are different, you could try to OC such a set-up though you'd need time and a lot of patience. As you'd need to test it bit by bit to get stable performance. Also there's no gurantee that you'd be able to get a high level of OC that you did with 2 sticks.

For me, I'd really think twice about spending 130 on new memory, knowing that it'd be replaced in less than a year. This would only be advisable if the software that you use nearly hangs or bogs down a lot due to low memory, else you could wait the 6 months.

 

[geofelt]

Adding a 8800GT or some other new vga card will still be good for a new build. Not a bad thing to do. It's worth waiting a few weeks for the new product frenzy to wear off, and who knows what else might launch.
If you can find a pair if memory sticks that match your existing, then that is good. I don't know about the amd overclocking issues with 4 sticks. Alternately, get 2gb, and sell the old on e-bay. For a relatively small investment in memory, along with a vga card, you might be happy until nehalem launch.

 

[sailer]

To Sailer: My main concern is that I'll be able to get it to the same clock that my Opteron is at, so that any performance difference regarding single-threaded won't take a hit. I've researched a bit, and 2.8 GHz seems achievable, as you also believe. Would I need more extravagant cooling than my Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu?

Hitting 2860 mhz isn't something I believe, its something I know, because I can do it with the 4400+ CPU in my present machine. I'm using a Zalman 9500 heatsink, which is a bit less impressive than some of the modern ones, yet it does the job fairly well. One very nice thing about having a dual cpu over a single one is the ability to have multiple programs running and not suffer degradation in performance.

As to the ram, I'd look for another 2x512 set to give you the full 2 gig so as to not spend too much money. You suffer some loss in performance, going from 1T to 2T, but that's more than made up for by not having the system stop and go to the hard drive for virtual memory. It would be best to get the same brand, model, etc, but not absolutely necessary. Look more to matching the timings of your present ram, or even getting better timings so that the present ram doesn't slow down. The BIOS will set the ram at the setting of slowest ram pair.

 

[computertech82]

I game at 1920x1200

That's a pretty high resolution. Matters what games you get into. crysis is a pretty big "killer" of systems. Might want a "overhaul" and have a board that will support SLI (just incase you need the boost-or to keep the unit running longer in the future).

 

[atomicWAR]

hate to say it but thast system is trash can time. i am sitting on a simlar system. fx-60 with 2 gigs, 8800gtx and its limited by the cpu and the fact i can't put another card in as i have x8 lanes for sli (i run on 42" 1080p so like u sli is a bonus if it can be afforded). I can run almost any game out there but its the first time my system has bogged down at all since i built it a few years back. I am waiting on the phenoms before i can justify the upgrade. as for an intel system with nethlam so close and the socket switch i can't wait. i upgrade cpu's and gpus a lot and need a moboi buy to be good for a couple years so i am not looking at new ram and what not...

 

[coret]

hate to say it but thast system is trash can time. i am sitting on a simlar system. fx-60 with 2 gigs, 8800gtx and its limited by the cpu and the fact i can't put another card in as i have x8 lanes for sli (i run on 42" 1080p so like u sli is a bonus if it can be afforded). I can run almost any game out there but its the first time my system has bogged down at all since i built it a few years back. I am waiting on the phenoms before i can justify the upgrade. as for an intel system with nethlam so close and the socket switch i can't wait. i upgrade cpu's and gpus a lot and need a moboi buy to be good for a couple years so i am not looking at new ram and what not...

You know that 8 lanes still provides enough bandwidth, even for a GTX, right? Didn't THG do a test several months back where they actually taped off some of the lanes and it worked just as well... didn't even take much of a performance hit using just 4 lanes for that matter, if memory serves anyway. Plus you can always overclock your FX60 to get some more headroom out of it.

To the op: I wouldn't put any more money into the system for a little while ... phenom is literally only a couple weeks away (and being launched at the same time as the new motherboard chipsets + graphics cards to make AMD's "spider" thing happen) so I'd advise not making any decisions until they hit the shelves and we see what kind of price/performance they deliver.

Basically, if I were you, i'd be waiting ... saving the cash to do one big upgrade ... new motherboard, cpu, gpu and ram all in one go.

Oh, nice overclock btw ... i had the same speed (2860) coming from my old 3700+ sandy ... i miss that chip

 

[atomicWAR]

oh i am doing just that..waiting patiently. i do have an overclock set up for some games that run me into the floor. kick the cpu up to 2.938 ghz ram to 456 ddr and ht link to 1120 if memory serves me. but all the same try running jericho with x4 at 1080p and your pulling 27-30 fps.

as far as the 8800gtx in sli on two x8 lanes...i do remember an article about that but its been some time since i read it though i do recall CPU head room also playing a roll and there being some (not huge) performance hit for not running in both on 16x. basically i am saving up so i can unload like your talking....get bleeding edge again for a week or so and upgrade it to bleeding edge as many times as possible tell its dead again....

 

[Heyyou27]

You know that 8 lanes still provides enough bandwidth, even for a GTX, right? Didn't THG do a test several months back where they actually taped off some of the lanes and it worked just as well... didn't even take much of a performance hit using just 4 lanes for that matter, if memory serves anyway. Plus you can always overclock your FX60 to get some more headroom out of it.

To the op: I wouldn't put any more money into the system for a little while ... phenom is literally only a couple weeks away (and being launched at the same time as the new motherboard chipsets + graphics cards to make AMD's "spider" thing happen) so I'd advise not making any decisions until they hit the shelves and we see what kind of price/performance they deliver.

Basically, if I were you, i'd be waiting ... saving the cash to do one big upgrade ... new motherboard, cpu, gpu and ram all in one go.

Oh, nice overclock btw ... i had the same speed (2860) coming from my old 3700+ sandy ... i miss that chip

That test was actually done with an 8800GTS 320MB; the difference would be much smaller on an 8800GTX as it has 768MB of onboard memory and doesn't need to swap data nearly as often.

 

[T3hKittl3s]

Crysis reminds me of the Oblivion days...when it first came out, a (basically) high-end system like mine (high speed AMD, GeForce 7 series) could barely pull it off maxed out, especially at higher resolutions. Crysis seems to be the same way, in that it'll take a few months/generations of hardware before it becomes really super playable at high res., with all eye candy maxed. So, somehow I'll put up with either not having Crysis until then, or enjoying it at playable levels...

I guess it's more and more apparent that I should burn my system into the ground while I wait for (Penryn) or whatever CPU/Moterboard platform/GPU milestone seems logistical. Hooray for the waiting game...

To Coret: Thank you, by the way. I was happy to be able to get 600 Mhz extra out of that CPU, when I read so much about how awesome it was on these forums two years ago.

Here's (again) hoping my CPU and gig of RAM will be enough for the games to come in the next 6 months, assuming I have the video card to power them. That, or shell out ~$200 for double the RAM and CPU cores with the same basic architecture...but, Sailer seems to be my only vote in that direction, apart from half of myself.

 

[sailer]

Here's (again) hoping my CPU and gig of RAM will be enough for the games to come in the next 6 months, assuming I have the video card to power them. That, or shell out ~$200 for double the RAM and CPU cores with the same basic architecture...but, Sailer seems to be my only vote in that direction, apart from half of myself.

What can I say? I know this is an enthusiasts forum and many people here have the newest, bleeding edge equipment, but at the same time, most people in the world don't have such stuff. Its like Atomicwar complaining about his FX60 powered machine and thinking that its trash can time. If you look at the machines in use as reported by Steam, you'd find that an FX60 powered computer is more powerful than what the majority of computer gamers have. Its all a matter of perspective, and of budget. By the way, on the FX60 powered machine that I gave to my kid, I ran the test from Crysis and it passed at the upper end of the ratings, so the FX60 isn't all that far behind.

If you have or can raise the money for an all new, modern machine, then by all means build it and don't bother thinking about your 939. Sell or give the 939 hardware to someone who's still using an old 3200+ on a NF2 motherboard with AGP. He'll think what you have is wonderful. I myself am sitting patiently and waiting for the Phenom to come out, along with the HD 3800 series cards. Don't know if I'll buy them or something from Intel/Nvidia, but I want to see the benches and have an idea of how they perform before putting down my money.

On a last note, I'm a cheap guy that tries to make his computer last as long as possible. The main reason I'm building a new machine is that it will be using Vista 64 and I want as much power as I can buy when I finish it because of the way Vista slows things down so much.

 

[T3hKittl3s]

You and I seem to be in a similar boat involving Vista, Sailer. I, too want the 64 bit version, and am also waiting for hardware and software to catch up to it. I also love those statistics on Steam; they made me happy when I first buiilt my system as mine ranked in the higher end. And, yes, even now mine hasn't bottomed out completely...the average GPU is still a 6600GT-esque chip, I think. However, RAM average IS 2 GB, I'm sure. ~200 doesn't seem like all that much to keep prolonging my setup, and plus it'd be the dual core and RAM upgrade that I've been putting off for 9 months or so. Now that everything's cheaper...

Now for a question that's bordering on me actually plunging and upgrading: Should I go with the Manchester, or Toledo core X2's? (I'm going off of what's available on Newegg. Anyone else with insight on where to find s939 dual core procs. for cheap...I'm all ears.) Or, should Istick with Opterons and get the 175 or 180?

 

[sailer]

As best I know, the Toledo core is better than the Manchester. If you can find an Opteron at a decent price, it would be a bit better, but the Opty 175 I saw on Newegg was $144, quite a bit more than the $70 4200+. I'd stick with the 4200+ myself, as the 100 mhz or so more that the Opteron might get isn't worth the money to me.

 

[atomicWAR]

no i know my machine is still solid don't mis undertand me. i just know i am at a brick wall as far as cpu's go. i just finished jericho on high settings x4 smoothing and as long as i left motion blur off at 1080P i was cranking 28-34 frames a second on a single 8800gtx. I am making my leap to quad core at some point soon and do want it to be upgradible with the least amount of bottle necks (ie didn't get a amd am2 board ht 3 is am2+ and intels to close to nethlam to get a a 775 socket)...just hate waiting is all!