Image Quality - Nvidia vs. ATI

[qmalik]

I have heard people saying the ATI has better image quality...but from I remember in the past...from researching on different video cards at the time..I thought Nvidia came on top. I remember reading and seeing pictures of Nvidia and ATI on Half-life...and how the Nvidia card had less fragments on the chain fences and how the trees seemed to be clearer...maybe I am mistaken...anyone want to enlighten me...and show be some proof?

Explain: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_image_quality_showdown_august06/page4.asp

Side Note: Nvidia usually has better drivers right?

PS: I have an eVGA 8800GT Superclocked ($249+$15 = $264) coming in soon, but i am thinking of canceling order if 3870 is significantly better for price/performance and image quality. However, I think I got a good deal on the 8800GT. Also, I do not care about power usage or temp as much...I care about what quality I can play and see the game.

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

doubt 3870 wont be "sigifcantly better" but it will be better.

 

[qmalik]

doubt 3870 wont be "sigifcantly better" but it will be better.

if it is a little better..than i will stick with nvidia..because i <3 warenties...i use video cards for 4 years....ati can't support me like nvidia. But the question remains about image quality.

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

can u give links to some of these benchies

 

[qmalik]

can u give links to some of these benchies

As I said in OP, I just have a memory of this...since it was a quite a longtime ago. Hence, why I am asking others, since I believe I may be wrong.

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

Everyone SAYS "ATI has better image quality" which it probably does or else everyone wouldn't be saying it. Rumors are based on truths. ATI does better image quality now that they have HDR with AA enabled

 

[qmalik]

Everyone SAYS "ATI has better image quality" which it probably does or else everyone wouldn't be saying it. Rumors are based on truths. ATI does better image quality now that they have HDR with AA enabled

Explain this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_image_quality_showdown_august06/page4.asp

 

[itotallybelieveyou]

everyone SAYS. Yes I did read it and it was before 8800 vs 2900s

 

[Seikent]

Explain this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_image_quality_showdown_august06/page4.asp

A reason could be that that 'review' was made with an unreleased ATI card and ATI isn't actually popular because of bringing the best drivers along the release of their products (just a hyphotesis).

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

Ati has better image quality than nvidia's 7000 series, but even the HD series can't compete with the 8000 series in image quality. I'd never buy a 2900 even with it getting better frames than a gts because the quality difference is that big. Its possible ati will retake the crown with the 3870 but HIGHLY unlikely as the gap was so huge.

 

[MagicPants]

ATI tends to throw in more features, if I remember correctly ATI cards on Oblivion could handle both HDR and AA, however you needed a special (and now obsolete) driver to do this. Newer ATI cards also feature programmable AA. Usually ATI cards are more future proof as the ATI 2900 series has been less impacted by DX10 then nVidia's 8800 series.

That said nVidia is still faster and runs cooler. I think nVidia tends to design cards around what will be useful in games whereas ATI designs around completely supporting the latest version of DX.

I really hope ATI comes out with something highend soon. nVidia just announced they are focusing on triple SLI rather than better chips. I'm a little worried they are adopting Intel's 1998-2005 business plan.

 

[rwayne]

I think the visual quality between Nvidia and ATI was much more appearant with the last generation of video cards from both companies. The GeForce 7 Series VS the Radeon 1K Series. To me personally I can see a big difference with the ATI 1k series cards. ATI's Visuals were much brighter and fuller than with the GeForce 7 series.

Nvidia has made a lot of improvements with the GeForce 8 Series which in a Toms Hardware Article stated it was a little bit better than ATI's 1k Series.

However ATI's HD2k series improved in color quality also which puts it ahead of the GeForce 8 from what I have seen from reviews online. I can not vouch for that statement personally how as I do not own a current generation card from either company.

But as I understand it that is how things are.

If your 8800GT is not shipped by Nov 19th you may want to cancel the order and get a ATI 38XX series. The 8800GT is very short in stock (only 40,000 were sent out) and it is estimated that demands will not be met by Christmas. However on the otherside ATI has the 38XX series cards in full production and will have 250,000 at launch with another 150,000 available by Christmas. Plus you can buy one for 2/3rd's the cost of 8800GT.

Read the article here:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34818/118/

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

As for driver problems, check the recent 'floptimizations' and also the feedback on the latest WHQL drivers for nVidia and tell me they don't have just as many issues as AMD/ATi.

In IQ, it depends alot on the testing methods and the tests.

In the FS review the AF is set to default, not to ATi's HQ mode, which was undeniably better than nVidia more angle dependant mode and did not come at a heavy price. The AF situation has improve in the GF8 series where it's arguably better than the HD2K, but it's the rare time it's noticeable compared to the shimmering and crawling of the GF7. But it is better in tests. The HD38xx is rumoured to have better AF quality, but I won't believe it until I see it. Early talk about the HD38xx series in games like Crysis have been positive though so who knows, could see a slight change.
AA quality however is pretty much the same, with different quality in the default modes and optional modes, but in the forced full AA modes they are more similar than different.

Whether or not the FS review was an early HD2900 or simply and X1950XTX is a necessary question, because if it was an HD2900, then it's a very early card with far from optimized drivers using a shader based AA method instead of a traditional hardware based resolve like that found in the X1K and GF7. Early issues with that shader based method are similar to the Half-Life issues that also plagued the GF8 early on.

Right now though until the IQ issues in Crysis and Gears of War are fully explained and a WHQL driver comes out that fixes them with the performance boosts intact, you aren't going to have the answer you're looking for.

Both have their IQ benifits and issues. The main thing remains to look at the games you play most and see how they react.

 

[monsterrocks]

ATI tends to throw in more features, if I remember correctly ATI cards on Oblivion could handle both HDR and AA, however you needed a special (and now obsolete) driver to do this...

I got a x1800xt and I run HDR and 2x AA without special drivers. So that driver statement...not true at all.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

It is true, just an imprecise somewhat outdated view.

Initially you needed the Chuck Patch to run HDR+AA in Oblivion, however later it was folded into the WHQL release , and is likely still there. The chuck patch is obsolete, but not the ability to do HDR+AA.

It's still a tricky issue, but it's really more of a restriction in Bethesda's implementation of the game than ATi/AMD or nVidia's. The thing that annoyed most people was that they offered it on the Xenos, but not on the X1K, with the initial excuse being 'performance'.

 

[rwayne]

I got a x1800xt and I run HDR and 2x AA without special drivers. So that driver statement...not true at all.

I think the statement Magic Pants made was true for him in his situtation at the time he did it. I don't think he is making this up at all or is just throwing a statement out there.

I had a friend with a X1950Pro and I watched him try to run AA and HDR at the same time in Oblivion and the game threw an error saying that it could not run the game in HDR with AA enabled. That was back in September of 2006.

Since then Oblivion may have had an update for all users that corrected this problem which allowed you to run your X1800XT with AA and HDR enabled simultaneously with out issue.

 

[rwayne]

Looks like Great Ape just answered that question for us. He just got his post in minutes before I got mine in.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Nah, your friend just needed to read up on how to apply HDR+AA in Oblivion.

The Chuck patch came out, and was folded into the general drivers long before September 2006.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5282&page=1

 

[rwayne]

Well, my friend (or acquaintance I should say) had a pirated copy of Oblivion which would probably mean he did not receive any updates for the game. Which in turn would mean never got the patch to run HDR and AA at the same time.

All of his games were pirated. Which I am really against. I buy all of my games. And I don't buy them either unless PC Gamer gives them a rating of 90 or higher.

However I do have to admit I made an exception to that rule once and I bought Madden 2008 for the PC despite it's poor rating. However that is different. That game is fun.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Read the link, it wasn't an update for the game, it still doesn't support direct application of both AA and HDR. You still have to enable forced AA from the control panel, and then turn on HDR within the game, otherwise it still tells you "HDR is not supported when Anti-aliasing is turned on." That's even for the HD2K and GF8 series.

 

[monsterrocks]

That is not true TGGA. While that is the easiest and best way to do it, there is a way in game. I found a way to trick it in game (from an article) to run both AA and HDR. Yous should google it, I am sure it is still out there some where. I tale that back, I think it was in the options menu when the games autorun menu popped up that you could do that. I know it worked reguardless, because I could see that both HDR and AA were running at the same time because of the image quality and stuff. HDR is pretty easy to tell. And at resolutions of 1024x768, 2x AA makes a huge difference. So I am postitive they were both working.

 

[cruiseoveride]

i'm an avid supporter of nvidia because of the fantastic driver support across all platforms. But i must vote for ATi when it comes to picture quality.

the 3870 will be on par with the 8800gt more or less for most games. i'm waiting for its release before i dish out my money, even if its 10% slower than the 8800gt its a small sacrifice for the added dx10.1 support that the nvidia card lacks

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

You're going to have to provide the article, because without a hack or else forcing AA through the drivers, I haven't seen anything else about 'tricking' it into just appearing.

Anywhoo, regardless of a second method, the method being refered to is the Chuck Patch, which is clearly described and detailed in the link above by the creator.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I wouldn't wrry too much about DX10.1 unless you plan on keeping this card into 2009.

 

[qmalik]

I wouldn't wrry too much about DX10.1 unless you plan on keeping this card into 2009.

i plan to keep this card for 3-4 years....arg..maybe i should got ATI...but i had bad experiences with them in the past...after my x800xl died and they wont replace it...gg crap warranty...right now i have nvidia card...and it has never given me problems and seems to perform more "stable" than the ati's. hmmm what to do...what to doo...I WANT BENCHIESS!!!