Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

e6320 @ 3570mhz, 1:1 ratio w RAM, what's the Dream backdown? - Page 2

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
March 1, 2008 2:01:40 AM

Yeah, go ahead and change it. I'm feeling lazy so I'll pass.
March 1, 2008 8:04:04 AM

i'm awake, i'm not feeling lazy. the quick brown fox, caught the lazy brown dog. dog = type2.
March 1, 2008 5:54:53 PM

Well, my life's not on the line so there's no hurry. After I change the settings, I'd have to stress test the ram for 12hours to make sure it's stable. After all, 8hours isn't enough it appears.
Related resources
March 1, 2008 8:28:43 PM

hi. on another thread, i put a question 2 a guy who works 4 corsair. maybe i get some info there, on those sub-settings in the bios. do u run f11 bios?
March 1, 2008 8:38:20 PM

No, I run F2 bios. This is simply because I'm having issues upgrading to the latest bios version.

Well, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
March 1, 2008 9:11:41 PM

i had trouble w/ catalyst control center software from ati, the .net framework 2.0 o/s file was corrupt or something, so to troubleshoot it, their higher-up tech support asked me 2 upgrade 2 latest bios, my board came w/ f4, and i used it til jan 2008. i went up to f10, then somehow saw f11, and flashed it cuz ati trouble makes me scrounge thru the registry and kill any file w/ ati name in it, i hate it. even the same w/ all oem # .inf files, and their partner file (kill anything w/ the ati name in it.) this was sposed 2 get ccc to come up, after proper install. i say, my next card will be nvidia, and i will then, never 'work 4' ati again. btw/ f11 bios returns temps at 10c higher, so i was running at 31c in f4, but f10 or f11 shows speedfan 31c, but since my oc 2 2800mhz, i now show 32-34c. the older bios works ok. lots of guys are paranoid 2 flash the bios. me, i never had any trouble w that. it could improve your system performance (they do upgrade the bios 4 a reason.) just 2 mention it.
March 1, 2008 9:16:26 PM

Ah yeah, ATI drivers suck a lot. Part of the reason why I don't go ATI.

Anyways yeah, I went from F1 bios to F2 bios, then tried going F4 bios but it failed. This was through Windows XP, so I wasn't flashing the bios. Looks like I'll have to flash it some times later.
March 1, 2008 11:37:55 PM

u still use xp? god, vista kicks ass so bad on xp, i would never touch xp, yuck. esp., sp1 comes out w/in 2 weeks. vista is cool.
March 3, 2008 1:13:36 AM

Yes, I still use XP. The performance on XP is much better than Vista, at least for now. I'm not running DX10 so why go Vista? I'm sticking with Xp for the time being.
March 3, 2008 1:57:17 AM

i see lots of gamers use the xp o/s. i understand 2 use xp, cuz vista has tremendous security protection, so u can bomb on unseen issues, at any time. i love the dx10 graphics, like hip-hop videos and stuff, movies, mp3 files w/ vizualization color screen. this stuff sends me, so vista is surely 4 me. my 3850 card is dx 10.1 capable, so i'm gonna see even better graphis in 10 days. w/ sp1, maybe u will come 2 vista. i bought the full version of vista home premium, so for 2 install, or a fix, anytime i want, i can access the dvd vista comes on. u can shop around and get full ver vista 4 an ok price. it's kickass.
March 3, 2008 10:13:09 AM

goodday. pls, remember that next ver windows, windows 7, is due 2 come out in july 2009, so might be u don't want to get vista (at all?). supposedly, july 2008 windows 7 will be talked about, then in jan 2009 beta should come, and launch in july 2009. wimdows 7 is sposed 2 have new media center, and various new features, but some say, already they r starting 2 cut down the features, and windows 7 will launch as Vista Plus. we'll see.
March 3, 2008 10:15:56 AM

oh, btw, vista was a very super move up from previous o/s's. so, 2 buy full version was/is smart. but windows 7 should be an easy upgrade from vista, so i don't think it would b necessary, at least 4 me, who has full ver vista dvd, i shouldn't need but only 2 buy upgrade kit, 4 windows 7. windows 7 from xp probably should need 2 buy full ver., imo.
March 3, 2008 10:13:32 PM

tommmm111 said:
i see lots of gamers use the xp o/s. i understand 2 use xp, cuz vista has tremendous security protection, so u can bomb on unseen issues, at any time. i love the dx10 graphics, like hip-hop videos and stuff, movies, mp3 files w/ vizualization color screen. this stuff sends me, so vista is surely 4 me. my 3850 card is dx 10.1 capable, so i'm gonna see even better graphis in 10 days. w/ sp1, maybe u will come 2 vista. i bought the full version of vista home premium, so for 2 install, or a fix, anytime i want, i can access the dvd vista comes on. u can shop around and get full ver vista 4 an ok price. it's kickass.

I'm getting Vista when most of the issues are fixed. It does look real nice though.
March 3, 2008 10:15:57 PM

tommmm111 said:
goodday. pls, remember that next ver windows, windows 7, is due 2 come out in july 2009, so might be u don't want to get vista (at all?). supposedly, july 2008 windows 7 will be talked about, then in jan 2009 beta should come, and launch in july 2009. wimdows 7 is sposed 2 have new media center, and various new features, but some say, already they r starting 2 cut down the features, and windows 7 will launch as Vista Plus. we'll see.

I figure that I'm getting Vista perhaps next year. There's a lot of compatibility issues so that I can't play some of my non-English games. Besides, I'm poor.
March 3, 2008 11:14:06 PM

well, esp. if u wait til next year, msybe u want 2 just upgrade 2 windows 7 in july 2009, afterall, it will be a new o/s.
March 4, 2008 8:42:59 PM

hi. i thought i'd say, that 2 days ago, i saw the q6600 cpu at $249. usd, but it was at $279. usd for some time before that. with the Yorkies coming out, the prices of 1st gen conroes are now going down. your chip will b good 4 a long time, and i love my baby conroe e6320, so it's cool 2 watch the new products cause price drops. i saw an evga 8800gt 512mb card at newegg, on special, marked down from $269. to $239. and also there was a $30. rebate, making price = $209. for those oh-so-hard-2-get 8800gt's.
March 4, 2008 9:31:48 PM

tommmm111 said:
hi. i thought i'd say, that 2 days ago, i saw the q6600 cpu at $249. usd, but it was at $279. usd for some time before that. with the Yorkies coming out, the prices of 1st gen conroes are now going down. your chip will b good 4 a long time, and i love my baby conroe e6320, so it's cool 2 watch the new products cause price drops. i saw an evga 8800gt 512mb card at newegg, on special, marked down from $269. to $239. and also there was a $30. rebate, making price = $209. for those oh-so-hard-2-get 8800gt's.

The tray prices of the Q6600 will become $229 and $279 for the Q6700. Now only if AMD comes out with something better, the prices will be even lower.

The 8800GTs has dropped below the $200 a couple of times. It's amazing what $200 can get you these days.
March 4, 2008 10:20:09 PM

u said it. my 3850 video card is kickass 4 the price/ $179., and the 8800gt prices u say r cool 2. it seems they make, like the, ddr3 and maybe the yorkfield prices high, cuz that's the 'new' stuff/ cutting edge. still, the g92 8800gts card is kickass too. u r right, about what $200 can buy 4 a, man w/ money, either wealthy or, as u say, poor. cheers.
March 5, 2008 11:07:01 PM

hi. i saw 8800gt card today 4 $200./ also, i saw a review of wolfdale e8400 cpu. the guy said he knew alot, and that he took the 3.0ghz chip up to 4.4ghz, no sweat. he said it was a good chip, but he said, 'not a good upgrade from a q6600.' so, 4 u, your chip is cool 4 awhile.
March 7, 2008 1:37:54 AM

Yes, I think I'll be keeping my Q6600 for about 4years.

You should grab a Q6600 too. It's gone under $200!
March 7, 2008 2:32:02 AM

hi. thanks 4 the advise, but i hate 2 pull my mobo out. u know it runs so smooth right now, all that testing the new setup before to install the mobo in case, i get sick of it. i had a 965-ds3r mobo before this, so i had 2 swap out the insides a few times. i just love my little e6320 cpu, at, remember, 2.8ghz. it's my little htpc. i looked around at newegg.com, and the e8400 and thye super 9650 (quad?), were the only 2 new chips there, like the 9600 nvidia was the only new gpu offering. amazing that your q6600 is, as u say, under $200., but the replacement chips aren't around yet. i think that april brings the 8300 wolfdale, which sounds cool 4 me/ but i really don't wanna pull the mobo. ciao.
March 7, 2008 2:35:40 AM

Oh, well in that case, you shouldn't upgrade for a year or two. Wait for the newer cpus to come out.
March 7, 2008 7:56:20 AM

i think i will do like that, just stick it out like this way it is here now. really soon, vista sp1 should come out. also, the big cards from 9000 nvidia series, and news about displayport should be starting. palit makes a 9600 nvidia card w/ displayport out jack on it. that's cool 2 see. i wanna see how my card does on sp1 dx 10.1, then see what people r saying bout displayport when it launches. i will have 2 wait awhile, cuz the cards, and esp. the monitors, will cost too much.
March 7, 2008 11:05:03 PM

I hope XP SP3 comes out, but I think MS said they weren't gonna go with it. Sucks a lot...
March 7, 2008 11:39:17 PM

you would love vista, like u wouldn't believe. it's got such quality, like 500x over xp. i used to use 2005 media center ver., and i wouldn't go near that now. vista kicks ass. the colors & graphics, just make u feel like a quality guy. anyway, i said windows 7 (vista = windows 6), windows 7 is sposed 2 come out in july 2009, so maybe u r best 2 wait til that comes. anyway u do it, u will need a full version of the software package, cuz vista went alot into the digital age, where xp had nothing near it. i will tell u, when i get sp1 vista, probably this time, fri, next week, march 14 or so. i'm gonna look up q6600 on the search now, cuz i never found time yet, since u said it wuz -200 last night. bye.
March 8, 2008 12:01:48 AM

I hear ya. It's like Windows95 to Windows XP, huge diff. Just waiting for Vista to mature and hopefully fall in price.
March 8, 2008 12:04:13 AM

If you look around not only online, but also stores, you may be able to find one that's under $200.
March 8, 2008 9:23:17 AM

i don't think they will let vista drop in price. it's like u still see the gf7200gs cards for $45., somehow either they won't let go of the card, cuz it has 'inherent' built in value, only going down so low, or else, they don't want people 2 wait 4 the price 2 fall, and never buy the newer, pricier stuff. don't think vista will ever be cheap. example is xp itself, the damn thing came out 2001, that's 7 years, and it still sell 'professional' ver., for the same price as vista home builders pack cd/dvd, price at $114. So, the best 4 u is 2 hear this july about windows 7, and along the way til next jan 2009, as much as possible, til jan 09 the beta test ver. will be offered, and u can try it, or like me, read the reports, til july 2009, when windows 7 comes out. people said they r cutting features on windows 7, so it will just b vista Plus (which would/ might not b too expensive. definitely get 4 u a full ver., cuz it's a very important upgrade, & you'd always have your system disk, 4 2 use on any pc/ only 1/ whenever, wherever u want. i got my vista full ver. at amazon for $154., which was a pretty cool deal in 4/2007.
March 10, 2008 2:30:09 AM

I'm sure the price will drop slightly, after all, Windows XP did drop from ~$110 to ~$90.

Anyways, atm I don't have the money for it so I'll have to wait.
March 10, 2008 3:53:09 AM

hi. i have been busy testing an asus p5k deluxe/wifi mobo i bought at amazon 4 $49. It came as the mobo only, and i got the board up, but asus is proprietary, and u can't do or see **** in the bios, w/out the applications that r supposed to be used from the system disk, which is a dvd on this board. so i got oc to 2520mhz, like w/ gigabyte, but asus can't go past that, unless u have Tweaker appl 2 use, esp. 4 2 set ram & vcore voltages. i figured it all out, and now i know alot about asus stuff, so i'm gonna ship this asus p5k deluxe mobo back for refund ($49.), and setup my p35-ds3r mobo again. Hey, yesterday i bought a e6600 cpu new at amazon 4 $200. It was such a cool deal, and i thought i would use it w/ this asus board, but i'm just gonna put it in my gigabyte mobo, and sell my pretty little e6320. bye, tom L.
March 11, 2008 4:56:16 AM

That's 'Q6600' and not 'E6600' right? Cause if you bought the E6600 at $200...

Anyhow, the best P35 motherboard is the ASUS P5k-e. All I know is that it has tons of features, way better than the Gigabyte you have.
March 11, 2008 3:26:54 PM

hey,u, hi. well, i did buy a e6600 cpu, cuz u know i like small chips. i thought that this p5k deluxe/wifi asus board i got ($49.), was so hot/ it has super cool 75% memory boost feature, and u really can feel it kick ass, when u tell it what to do something. so i was gonna step up, being that this mobo p5k deluxe was so cool, i was gonna get a e6420, and found 1 at $174., which is cool, compared to $199. plus tax at newegg.com. Anyway, i ordered the e6420, but then searched around amazon, just 2 see if i made the best deal 4 me. i saw, for $200., a guy had a factory sealed e6600 c2d cpu, and wanted $200. At newegg, they want $234. plus tax for e6600, and amazon wants $251. The q6600 like u have, is $250. everywhere, tho i saw it for $227. a week ago as a special offer. Q6600 is a $250. cpu, and u really can't beat that price. i got e6600, which everybody used 2 use 6 months ago, before quad 6600 came 2 be the cool thing, so i'm super thrilled by e6600 dual core cpu. For sure i got a good price, and i just bought a p5k-e/wifi mobo from newegg yesterday, cuz my $49. p5k deluxe/wifi has only the mobo, and i had to download and install all drivers, etc., and it was fkkked. the p5k-e/wifi i bought from newegg is new, and will have a user manual, driver cd, wifi manual & antennae, all the stuff i didn't get w/ my p5k deluxe/wifi. btw/ my gigabyte mobo bombed trying to reconnect it, and i'm going to the library to print a ups label now, to send the p35-ds3r to L.A., CA. at gigabyte location. take care, i will write about what's going on here. my p5k-e/wifi board will arrive tommorrow evening, so i will test it out w/ my e6320 cpu. then, w/in a week, my e6600 cpu should be here. after awhile, i'll sell the e6320 cpu. bye, tom L.
March 12, 2008 1:38:25 AM

While you may have gotten a good price for the E6600, the performance is not worth the $200. For $200, you can get the new E8400 which OCs from 3GHz to 4.2GHz on air flawlessly. Also, the E8400 beats the E6600 clock for clock.

The E6600s are not in production anymore, thus the price remains high. You should return it as soon as possible, if you can. If you can't, I suppose it's fine. The E6600 is still a decent chip, it's just not as good as the other Intel cpus you can get for the price.
March 12, 2008 11:39:48 PM

hi. i sent my gigabyte ds3r board in for rma repair, and i sent back the p5k deluxe/wifi board i got for $49. I'm gonna take your advice. my e6600 will arrive tommorrow, special sent, and i will refuse it, and get my $200. back, and keep on to talk to u, btw/ i'm here now w/ my e6320 running on my new, today installed, p5k-e/wigfi asus board. i'm gonna stick the board in the case now, after 2 talk to u. see u later, bye, tom L.
March 13, 2008 12:10:28 AM

The Asus P5k-e wigfi is an excellent motherboard to work with, you will be pleased. I'm glad you took my advice of refusing the E6600, since it is NOT worth the $200. Heck, you can get a Q6600 for that price if you look hard enough.

The supply for the E8400 is extremely low, thus it's sold out every where and the price for them is a bit higher than expected. Supposedly ~$185, the online stores have them at $200 - $250.

People on this forum has reported 4.5GHz Oc using water, up from stock 3Ghz. It's so amazing!
March 13, 2008 2:19:21 AM

hi. i'm up on my p5k-e board. it cool, i just got my internet connection 2 work. i love my little e6320 cpu, u know that, so my pc is now put back together, and i'm doin on asus. that $49. p5k deluxe/wifi i had, reported on cpuz that ram was cas=33, and then 6 and 7 and 15, for the first 4 ddr listings. it was weird. this p5k-e board came up standard as jedec set 5-5-5-18 setting, on 400 speed, which is ok for default setting. ooooh, i'm gonna oc soon, i just gotta set up my tv channels, and my tv guide in media center, i can't wait to see the oc w/ this 75% increase performance in to oc, that asus has written all over the box. i'll see ya, gotta work my ass off, like everyday. take care, & thanks 4 the advice, i'll refuse delivery on that e6600 tommorrow when it comes here. adios, tom L.
March 13, 2008 2:36:33 AM

That's all cool. Let me hear the results when you're done.
March 13, 2008 4:21:22 AM

ok, i'm loading the utility prgs asus, 2 get 2 update utility appl, so i can copy my current bios 2 a flash drive. bye, tL
March 14, 2008 12:06:26 AM

ho, another day, another work week, since the last post. i said i got my new p5k-e/wifi mobo into the case, and it came right up. i let it run, any way it wanted to, for a few hours, then i did 30 min orthos, wtf. it was ok, so i made sure everything was hooked up, like my digital tv (which i had 2 totally re install for vista media center), and so my remote could work the media center from 2 sit on my bed/ futon. asap, i got around to oc my new board, but 2 start out, i disabled speedstep & c1e, then set it at stock 7x266 so it would run at stock 1.86ghz. i put the vcore at 1.30v, like gigabyte standard was, but it really comes out, in the world (like cpuz), as 1.19v. any way, i got it 2 work fine, so took it to 7x300mhz, for a 2100mhz ride (ddr 800 at 1.9v/ 1:1 w/ fsb). i ran 30 min orthos at 2100mhz, wtf, and it did great, so i left it and eventually slept a little/ enuf. early a.m., i took it to 7x330mhz, where it is now/ 2.315ghz. vcore & ddrv same. it's cool at this 7x330mhz, but my visualize graphics weren't too pretty, so i was bummed out, cuz that doggy p5k deluxe board had good visuals. i called asus tech support 3 times, before i could get a guy, that didn't transfer me for 15 min wait, only to die, the call, after level 2 techies wouldn't answer the phone, and asus machine girl hung up on me. 3's a charm, and i finally got a guy who told me i should download the latest drivers from asus site (i totally forgot how 2 install mobo drivers (i only remembered to go to the dite for new vga card stuff)). any way, he said, esp. get the new chipset driver, if u r concerned the graphics. i asked him, maybe the p5k deluxe board had better graphics, since it was a better board, even tho the p35 and southbridge were the same as p5k-e. he said the graphics r the same on the 2 boards. i tried alot of ways to install the chipset driver, but vista pretty much installed theirs 4 me, cuz they manage alot of things from huge tables they have in vista o/s. so, when 2 try 2 install downloaded p5k-e chipset driver, i got most thru it, the install, but intel said my system was not up enuf 4 2 get such a driver. horseshit. i saw that 1 before. intel is a bit like ibm, they r weird, but they r so cool, it's ok. any way, my graphics 4 visualize r ok, but i think they will get better, i just gonna wait. so, my little e6320 was doin so good on this new rig, that i went out and bought a linksys router wrt54g today, and the damn thing made me wireless, w/out 2 even put the little antennae on my back of rig. it's kickass now, king of the htpc, king of the little guy cpu, lol. i'm sorry. gone.
March 14, 2008 12:16:34 AM

Glad it worked out for you, very good.

One question. What do you exactly mean by "visualize graphics"? I don't see how the motherboard affected the graphics...
March 14, 2008 12:35:10 AM

like when u play a song on wmplayer, there's an option 'Now Playing', and it shows swirling colors. media center has the same option (full screen) and it looks cool, when u have good vga card. (i had a 8800gts 320mb before, and it made great colors at this.) i like 2 see the colors during 2 listen 2 song, so this p5k-e board didn't show good res graphics & colors like the p5k deluxe board/ what i just threw out that 1/ and so i called asus, cuz i thought maybe the p5k deluxe was a better board, and i might have 2 send back the p5k-e board, and buy a better board, if it was the better board that made the better graphics/ like the wmplayer 'now playing' option colors swirling. but asus man said that when u buy a new mobo, for sure the drivers on that incl. drivers cd were very outdated, so he said 4 me 2 download the latest drivers from asus site, and that should fix my graphics swirl color concern. i somehow got it better, so it's ok. u would like nedia center, 4 2 listen to mp3, watch tv from your digital tuner cuz it has free internet channel listings guide that ms always keeps up to date, and u keep your pics in there, for 2 watch slideshow, and hip-hop videos from internet, and rock and pop videos. there's alot of stuff 2 do in media center. it's passing time in fun often. i'm wireless now. so i come stright up into an on internet connection, just it takes a minute 4 the system to bring up my usb mouse, haha.
March 14, 2008 2:30:57 AM

Just curious, but did you have the resolution set to your monitor's highest res? There also should be an ATI control panel where you can change the quality and colors of pics and videos and stuff. I know Nvidia can, not too sure about ATI.
March 14, 2008 3:08:37 AM

oh, don't worry about my ati card, i just watched a tv show 'my name is earl', and it was super funny. i've got such good res, don't worry about it. maybe u should tell me if u know what i mean, about the 'Now Playing' option on windows media player? it plays mp3, and shows color show while the song plays. do u know it? i like for that media player to have a really pretty display, that's what i'm talking about. my dvd, and digital tv, all that is great. but the colored light show, like in the rockin 60's here in sf, ca, that i like to look really cool. fyi/ i just took my rig up to 7x350 = 2456mhz, and ran over 1 hour on orthos, on those small FFT's stress cpu setting. it does fine. i wanted to get it a little higher than it was. i still gotta set the ram to 4-4-4-12, but i think i do that tommorrow.
March 14, 2008 3:12:07 AM

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Keep in mind while stress testing the cpu using small FFT is alright, if you come across any instability, you should run the "blend" test first rather then the small FFTs. This is so that if the ram is unstable, it will show up real fast in the blend. It will also show up in the small FFTs, but you'd think it's the cpu and not the ram.
March 14, 2008 3:12:46 AM

I too enjoy the WMP displays. :) 
March 14, 2008 6:27:11 AM

hi. i just woke up from sleep, and the girls sent me up the block, 4 2 buy coffee to drink. i'm gonna stream some sudio in, 60's motown cd, and try out audio download w/ wireless (speed check.) i'm at 2456mhz, and spent over 60+ min in orthos, checked ok. btw/ my vcore is still at 1.19v, pretty cool, yeah? i never worked w/ it so low before. i just set it, like w/ gigabyte p35-ds3r board, at 1.30v in bios, and out here, it is showing as little 1.19v, yahoo. after 2 work a little, i'm gonna turn down the ddr to 4-4-4-12, and see how the vcore holds up. should b ok. bye.
March 14, 2008 9:30:56 PM

hi. i am at 4-4-4-12 timing on the corsair ddr2 800c4 ram, and my unit snaps good. i don't want 2 go any higher than 2456mhz. That e6600 cpu is on it's way back 2 wisconsin. No news today on vista sp1, but it should b coming soon. bye.
March 15, 2008 5:41:34 AM

Yeah, you seem well off. One very handy tool is HWMonitor, which you can get here: http://www.cpuid.com/ This tool tells you nearly everything you'd want to know. You can also get the CPUz if you haven't already.

I'm now trying to lower my timings from 4-4-4-12 to 3-4-4-11, so far it seems well. I also spent some time doing my biannual major pc clean up, where I changed the thermal paste of the vidcard, cpu, NB, and MCH. Then I cleaned out all the dust off my 9 120mm fans and made my case shiny like again.

You should do maintenance to your pc too, perhaps at least once a year.
March 15, 2008 3:21:46 PM

hi, good 4 u. it will be interesting 2 hear how it turns out, the timing down of your 4gb patriot-ic ram, that u have. i never take off the heat sink for nb, and i thought mch was nb (i saw some note about that bios listing for mch.) u remove the heat sink on your video card too? i never keep a video card more than a year or so. they r so cool, i just gotsta get 1 of the new ones. tell me about your work u do, that happens when u change thermal paste on 4/ nb, mch, video card, and cpu. i'd like to hear how it sound, on the screen here. btw/ i just put my cpu in, so it is good on the thermal paste. what hsf do u use? i have zerotherm btf90 (92mm fan) & i thought it was cool when i got it, but now, in the case, i think those little squat ones, like a rice bowl (zalman?), actually disipate the socket heat better than my taller btf90 zerotherm, which really is like a house fan, though most air it sucks in, passes low, past the copper fins & over the socket cover, where it's mounted. the low squat ones probably spread out the heat, quicker & better. btw/ i just cleaned up my case, w/ a dust cloth, before 2 put in my new p5k-e/wifi board. i have a lian-li case, but don't use the 80mm top fan hole, i just let it breathe there, naturally. u game alot, so that u would need 9 big fans? write & say. tom L.
March 15, 2008 3:22:55 PM

oh, is mch like ich9r?
!