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help a noob with water cooling

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February 26, 2008 7:41:40 PM

well, i kind of already asked this, but my budget has increased. i can spend about 230$ on a water cooling system. i really want a kit, noise is of no issue to me. i want max cooling and i dont care if it screams at 50db.

i have been looking at eather a swiftech 220 compact(140$) or a swiftech 220-apex ultra($220) from newegg.

i want to know if anyone has had any experience from swiftech. or if water is even worth the cash.

i need something that can be transported easily(thats why i liek the "radbox" from swiftech) for lan parties. i assume this will be easy to do on the back of a thermaltake armor series.

open to new ideas, please teach a wcing noob.(ps i read "intro to watercooling", so i guess im not that much of a noob)

More about : noob water cooling

February 26, 2008 8:41:46 PM

Well, I think that for you to consider watercooling you need to decide on a few things to determine if the investment is really worth it to you at this point.

Alot of it has to do with o'clocking and if you are going to be agressive with it.......

You see, while those kits you mentioned are very nice and would do a good job, you could actually get by with air cooling as a cheaper alternative.

To moderately o'clock, you wouldn't need to invest in watercooling - just have a good convection (air) cooling setup and decent air circulation within your rig. After all, the best air cooling is as good (or better - certainly cheaper) than the worst (or ok) watercooling setups.

So, initially, it all amounts to o'clocking really and if (or how) you may involve yourself in it.
February 26, 2008 9:03:49 PM

You'll have to go with a $300 water cooling kit in order to beat the best air cooling, which costs $60. Thought I'd share that with you.
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February 26, 2008 10:46:52 PM

the thing is, i really do not want to go with the thermalright. it just seems like such a pain to use. what 300$ w/cing systems would you reccomend. and why would the swiftech be a good one?

also looking at danger den, right now. their custom kit seems like a good idea. can anyone sugest something from there for ~250$.
February 27, 2008 1:01:08 AM

What you are going to find out is that if you do stick with watercooling as a means to cool your system that D.I.Y. (Do-It-Yourself) is the way that you will, ultimately, end up going. Kits are nie but they have one inherent issue in that they usually only have components from one company.

However, you may find that the pump from one, the CPU waterblock from another and the GPU waterblock from, yet, a different company would be most effective (or preferred).

Again, deciding on what you might should get will depend alot on what you intend on doing as far as o'clocking. Will you be aggressively o'clocking or not? If so, will you be o'clocking both the CPU and GPU?

February 27, 2008 1:50:33 AM

i will only be cooling the cpu, and im aming for pretty high overclocking. how high do you think you can get a q6600 on a good setup?

i really like the swiftech "radbox" idea, will those work on any radiator?
February 27, 2008 2:10:01 AM

the radbox will work with any rad that uses a 120mm fans - regardless of company.

I don't know the upper limit of o'clocking the q6600 but I have o'clocked my q6600 (slacr) to 3.2 - I hadn't bothered to push it any higher because I didn't need to.

Ok, since you want to agressively o'clock the cpu soley then there is no need to worry about memory (although, by default, it will be o'clocked) nor the GPU. That being said, that also means that you don't need to worry about the northbridge. Now, down the road, if you ever intend on agressively o'clocking the GPU then getting a better cooling solution for the NB would have to be a consideration.

So now, as far as putting together a kit for you - would you have a problem buying parts made by different companies or are you dead-set on buying a kit (like the two you mentioned initially)?
February 27, 2008 10:47:01 AM

I would consider the Swiftech Compact kits ONLY if I were space limited. Otherwise, the H20-20 Apex Ultra (about $220) would stomp the crap outta any air cooling. It keeps your major components (rad, res, pump, block) separate to facilitate any future expansions. This kit would be outstanding from a cpu only loop.

If you want a complete DIY, and think you might later want to add the gpu, look at this list:
- D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block & nozzle Accelerator kit - $67 (can sub an Apogee GT for less cost)
- Swiftech MCP655 - $80
- Swiftech MCR320-QP - $45 (Newegg price) (or a 220 rad if no gpu)
- Swiftech MCB-120 radbox - $20
- Masterkleer 7/16" 10 ft - $6
- Swiftech MCRES-Micro - $20
- Distilled Water - $1
- 3x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SM-12 - Medium Speed $11
- 3x Fan Grills $5
- 1x Swiftech HydrX - $2.50
- 10x Tubing clamps - $5

Total $262.50 USD

It's a little higher than your stated budget, but if you could swing it it'l server you well down the road. If you want more color choices in fluids, look at Primochill Liquid Utopia - about $10
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February 27, 2008 1:30:57 PM

well, i have been reserching a little more, and i would have to say you are right. i have come to like the radbox from swiftech, as well as the micro res. but i do like the fact that the danger den mc-tdx water block is ment for multi core/multi die cpus.

what size tubing is good to use? also, is a dual pass radiator named "black ice xtreme 2" from danger den good, or should i get a single pass? i think you have to use fans with 100+ cfm on it. in my case, noise is not a problem.

does this setup sound good?
MC-TDX waterblock from danger den-60$
mcp655 pump from swiftech-80$
black ice extream 2 radiator from danger den-51$
radbox from swiftech-15$
mcres from swiftech-15$
2xfan grills-5$
2xultra kaze scyth fans-20$
swiftech hydrx-3$
tubing clamps-5$

=$254(i guess i could up my budget a bit, would set the build back a bit though, but thatts not a problem.)

the reason i was concidering the apex kit, was because it was $220 from newegg, and had everything i needed(including instructions). im just new at this and i want to make sure i get everything right, i guess ti just made me feel beter knowing that everything would work great when put together correctly.
February 27, 2008 2:18:31 PM

In a single-pass radiator, the coolant flows from the inlet at one end, straight through all the tubes all at once, to the outlet. Single-pass benefits because it presents all the tubes with the highest possible water temperature at once (whereas a two-pass radiator will only get the highest temperature inlet water on one side, and then cool slightly cooler water up the other side. This doesn't make a huge difference though. Generally it provides a 1-15% performance benefit from this effect alone).

Where single pass falls down, though, is the tubing velocity. Because the water is presented to all the tubes at once, the water velocity through the tubes is half of what it is through a dual-pass radiator. As the flow rate (and hence water velocity in the tubes) goes down, the radiator performance starts to fall away. With a single-pass you've gone and halved the water velocity in one hit. This is offset somewhat by the temperature delta benefit of single-pass, but it is by no means a sure thing that single pass will be better.

In a dual-pass radiator the water flows down one half-side, U-turns, and back up the other half-side. For multiple row cores, dual-pass is always better and flow restriction doesn't really come into it. The vast bulk of the flow restriction in these types of cores all comes from the fittings. The pressure drop difference is insignificant when water blocks are involved, so long as the radiators have correctly designed end-tanks. Higher CFM fans are more suited for this type of radiator.

The D-Tek Fuzion has a nozzle kit specifically designed for "quad-core" CPUs - the EK Supreme and the Apogee GTX are also designed with that in mind (so don't feel that you are limited to one choice).

While the Thermochill rads are considered by many to be the top of the line, their price/performance ratio might be a little steep - the Black Ice Xtreme 2 series of rads are excellent performers and would do just fine - I use two (2) Black Ice Xtreme 2 rads in my cooling loop (check out my sig).

As for tubing - ideally, 1/2 ID is probably the most popular. There are many different brands (of which Tygon is considered top-of-the-line). Just make sure that you get at least 10ft. That is a bit excessive but it will allow you to make corrections if you misjudge tubing lengths).

Also, consider teflon tape. Teflon tape is an extremely lightweight tape that plumbers use around threading. You would wrap it around the fittings before you screw them onto waterblocks and/or reservoirs to create an airtight seal to prevent leakage.
February 27, 2008 4:24:24 PM

does anyone know where i can get all those thigns from one store? because i dont want to have to buy from like 4 different places :( . also the danger den pump looks almost exactly like the swiftech mcp655. is it?
February 27, 2008 8:59:30 PM

Add www.jab-tech.com to your list as well. I think I've ordered from every one of these sites with great success.

The Teflon tape you can get from the plumbing section of any H/W store. USE IT. No reason not to and every good reason to.

Other than the above from phreejak, you list looks good. Those Ultra Kaze fans are nice. I would also consider getting 120mm sound vibration gaskets for each. Not for the sound, but to create a tight seal between the fans and the rad.
February 28, 2008 12:38:13 AM

ok guys, i think this is what im going to do.

Danger Den MC-TDX Universal - 1/2" -59.99$
Swiftech MCR-220 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black-44.99$
Laing D5 Basic/Swiftech MCP655-B Inline 12V DC Pump -74.99$
1/2" ID (3/4" OD) Tygon R-3603 Laboratory-Grade Tubing (10ft)-32.50$
Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Hi-Flo Reservoir -19.95$
Swiftech MCB-120 "Radbox" Radiator/Fan Housing Rev. 2 - Black- 17.99$
Stainless Steel Worm-Drive Hose Clamp (Wide Band w/Liner)(10)-12.50$
UV Reactive Pentosin G11 Coolant Additive (Blue) - 4oz.-4.50$
120mm x 38mm Scythe DFS123812H-3000 "Ultra Kaze" Case Fan(2)-21.98$
120mm Plastic Fan Filter - Black(2)-3.98$
120mm Wire Fan Grille - Chrome (2)-1.98$

from petra's.
Subtotal: $295.31
Shipping: $16.81*
Tax: $0.00
Total: $312.12

with the coolant aditive, do i mix it with distilled water? and is distilled water non conductive? also, i really dont like paying 32$ for plastic tubes...also, is the swiftech radiator a dual pass radiato, or should i buy the rad from somewhere else?
February 28, 2008 1:13:23 AM

Your cooling solution is going to be conductive. For non-conductive coolants you'd be looking for something like PC-ICE or Fluid-XP.

If you are going with Tygon 1/2 use the 11/16 OD. You can get 10ft for $22.50 at:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tubing.html

According to the Swiftech site they are dual-pass rads....

Something else you might look into are coolsleeves - specifically the 625 version for 1/2 tubing. You wrap them around the tubing in areas where tight bends are needed and they help to keep the tubing from crimping and maintain the wall integrity.
February 28, 2008 1:20:19 AM

how about feser one?
February 28, 2008 1:54:58 AM

looks like sidewinder pc is a better place, what do you think about this list?


http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/swco625.html- Swiftech Coolsleves, 625- $3.25
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/ty1idx11odx3.html- Tygon 1/2" 11/16" 10ft- $22.50
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/swmcre1.html- Swiftech Micro Res- $17.95
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/swmc12vdcpu.html- Swiftech mcp655- $79.95
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/feonef1coflu.html- Feser one non conductive coolant- $19.95
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/swmcqupo2x.html- Swiftech mcr 220 qp rad- $45.45
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/sc12slsy110c.html- 2xScyth slipstream 110cfm- $19.90
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/12filfanguar.html- 2xFan filters -$5.90
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/12metfanguar.html- 2x Fan guard- $3.90
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/mciraho.html- Swiftech radbox- $15.95
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/brmihocl7int1.html- 10xBreeze Miniature Hose Clamp 7/16"-25/32"- $3.60
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/swapgtxexpeb.html- Swiftech apogee gtx- $59.95



Subtotal: $298.25
Shipping: $10.50
Tax: $0.00
Total: $308.75




not sure if i should order now, or at the same time i order my rig from newegg. i have the case for my build at my house. i just have to order the guts for it.
February 28, 2008 2:06:21 AM

Let me recommend this CPU waterblock over the Apogee GTX:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html

with

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dtfunoackit.html - to enhance the waterblock

I'll tell you why now.

The Apogee GTX, while a very superior performer and every bit as good as the EK Supreme and the D-Tek Fuzion - has a copper base and an aluminum top. That is just tantamount for some form of Galvanic corrosion down the road (the two metals do not work well together). To correct this problem, Swiftech also sells a "copper" top for the GTX - at around $39 a pop so to have a secure waterblock you would end up spending about $100. The EK Supreme uses a delrin or acrylic top and the Fuzion uses a delrin top.

Everything else on your list looks great....
February 29, 2008 12:28:59 AM

well, i was checking out the asus maximus formula special edition, and it has spots for cooling the chipset, would my system be able to add this to the loop?
February 29, 2008 1:30:11 AM

The MCP655 pump is more than capable of handling a NB Waterblock as an addition to your cooling loop......
February 29, 2008 4:15:21 PM

nman729 said:


with the coolant aditive, do i mix it with distilled water? and is distilled water non conductive? also, i really dont like paying 32$ for plastic tubes...also, is the swiftech radiator a dual pass radiato, or should i buy the rad from somewhere else?


Just me, but I don't worry about conductive vs non-conductive. I just plan not to spill any (smile). Do a thorough and safe leak test. PC ICE is a ready-to-use mix. Don't mix with anything else or it's no longer non-conductive. HydrX, pentosin, PC Liquid Utopia, and just regular antifreeze are all mixed with distilled water. Tygon (expensive) is definitely the easiest to work with. MasterKleer is also good but not as expensive. Any rad where the intake and out take barbs are on the same end is a dual pass rad (water goes down one side and up the other).

Swiftech rads are very good. You can spend more money for "better" it's just a matter of whether the extra 1-2c is worth $20 or more to you. You can get the MCR360 from Newegg for the same $45 dollars your planning to spend on the 240.
February 29, 2008 6:17:02 PM

well, i dont really want a giant radiator hanging off of my case, thats the only reason.
March 1, 2008 11:19:33 PM

also, is there any way i can mount the radiator inside of a thermaltake armor series case? i know thermaltake does it...somehow.
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